Stephen Hawking on Religion: Science will Win!!!

[Kiranga]

Unarejea tena kwene square one..
Umekiri kwamba sio jukumu la religion kufanya uchunguzi, sasa unawezaje kutumia mzani wa uchunguzi? We wa wapi?

Nionyeshe wapi "nimekiri" kwamba si jukumu la dini kufanya uchunguzi.


From your name I take it you could be Muslim. Ona Quran inavyosema kuhusu reason hapa halafu uniambie kwamba religion ina i claim reason au hapana.

Emphasis of the Quran on Reason

Allah created man superior to animals by giving him the distinguished ability to reason, looking forward that he would make use of this prized possession. How could it be possible that Allah Himself would give man a faculty and did not intend and appreciate its use? It does not make sense. He has elaborated in the Quran that,

هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ عَلَقَةٍ ثُمَّ يُخْرِجُكُمْ طِفْلا ثُمَّ لِتَبْلُغُوا أَشُدَّكُمْ ثُمَّ لِتَكُونُوا شُيُوخًا وَمِنْكُمْ مَنْ يُتَوَفَّى مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلِتَبْلُغُوا أَجَلا مُسَمًّى وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

"It is He Who has created you from dust; then from a sperm-drop; then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out as a child; then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that you may use your reason." [40:67]



Allah has bestowed His Guidance upon humans not for that they do not use their reason or intellect but on the contrary He has expounded that the very purpose of His Guidance, the Quran, is that people should use their reason.

إِنَّا أَنْزَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

"Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran, so that you might encompass it with your reason." [12:2]

إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

"Indeed, We have rendered it an Arabic Quran, so that you might encompass it with your reason." [43:3]



The importance of using the faculty of reasoning is such that Allah has severely condemned those who do not make use of it. He says in the Quran,

إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابِّ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ الصُّمُّ الْبُكْمُ الَّذِينَ لا يَعْقِلُونَ

Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason. [8:22]

وَلَقَدْ ذَرَأْنَا لِجَهَنَّمَ كَثِيرًا مِنَ الْجِنِّ وَالإنْسِ لَهُمْ قُلُوبٌ لا يَفْقَهُونَ بِهَا وَلَهُمْ أَعْيُنٌ لا يُبْصِرُونَ بِهَا وَلَهُمْ آذَانٌ لا يَسْمَعُونَ بِهَا أُولَئِكَ كَالأنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْغَافِلُونَ

And most certainly have We destined for hell many of the invisible beings and human being who have hearts with which they fail to grasp the truth, and eyes with which they fail to see, and ears with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle -nay, they are even less conscious of the right way it is they, they who are the [truly] heedless! [7:179]



Allah has urged humans in the Quran to ponder upon whatever there is in the universe and elucidated that in His creations, there are signs (towards the Truth) for those who use their reason.

إِنَّ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأرْضِ وَاخْتِلافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ وَالْفُلْكِ الَّتِي تَجْرِي فِي الْبَحْرِ بِمَا يَنْفَعُ النَّاسَ وَمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مِنْ مَاءٍ فَأَحْيَا بِهِ الأرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا وَبَثَّ فِيهَا مِنْ كُلِّ دَابَّةٍ وَتَصْرِيفِ الرِّيَاحِ وَالسَّحَابِ الْمُسَخَّرِ بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالأرْضِ لآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

Verily, in the creation of the heavens and of the earth, and the succession of night and day: and in the ships that speed through the sea with what is useful to man: and in the waters which God sends down from the sky, giving life thereby to the earth after it had been lifeless, and causing all manner of living creatures to multiply thereon: and in the change of the winds, and the clouds that run their appointed courses between sky and earth: [in all this] there are messages/signs indeed for people who use their reason. [2:164]

وَفِي الأرْضِ قِطَعٌ مُتَجَاوِرَاتٌ وَجَنَّاتٌ مِنْ أَعْنَابٍ وَزَرْعٌ وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ وَغَيْرُ صِنْوَانٍ يُسْقَى بِمَاءٍ وَاحِدٍ وَنُفَضِّلُ بَعْضَهَا عَلَى بَعْضٍ فِي الأكُلِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

And there are on earth [many] tracts of land close by one another [and yet widely differing from one another]; and [there are on it] vinyards, and fields of grain, and date-palms growing in clusters from one root or standing alone, [all] watered with the same water: and yet, some of them have We favoured above others by way of the food [which they provide for man and beast]. Verily, in all this there are messages/signs indeed for people who use their reason! [13:4]

وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمُ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ وَالنُّجُومُ مُسَخَّرَاتٌ بِأَمْرِهِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

And He has marshalled to your service the night and the day, the sun and the moon, and the stars have also been made subservient by His command. They all function according to His laws. In these also there are signs for those who use their reason. [16:12]

وَمِنْ ثَمَرَاتِ النَّخِيلِ وَالأعْنَابِ تَتَّخِذُونَ مِنْهُ سَكَرًا وَرِزْقًا حَسَنًا إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَةً لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

And [We grant you nourishment] from the fruit of date-palms and vines: from it you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome sustenance -in this, behold, there is a message/sign indeed for people who use their reason. [16:67]

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ يُرِيكُمُ الْبَرْقَ خَوْفًا وَطَمَعًا وَيُنَزِّلُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً فَيُحْيِي بِهِ الأرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead: verily in that are Signs for those who use their reason. [30:24]

وَاخْتِلافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ وَمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مِنْ رِزْقٍ فَأَحْيَا بِهِ الأرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا وَتَصْرِيفِ الرِّيَاحِ آيَاتٌ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

And in the alternation of the night and the day, and in the means of sustenance which Allah sends down from the Height, reviving the earth which had been lifeless, and in the change of winds and seasons - in all this are Signs for people who use their reason. [45:5]

أَفَلَمْ يَسِيرُوا فِي الأرْضِ فَتَكُونَ لَهُمْ قُلُوبٌ يَعْقِلُونَ بِهَا أَوْ آذَانٌ يَسْمَعُونَ بِهَا فَإِنَّهَا لا تَعْمَى الأبْصَارُ وَلَكِنْ تَعْمَى الْقُلُوبُ الَّتِي فِي الصُّدُورِ

Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus use reason and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts. [22:46]

 

[Kiranga]

Sasa nielezeni reason na faith zinakuwa reconciled vipi?

Mimi najua reason inazaa uchunguzi ambao unazaa knowledge, ukiwa na knowledge huhitaji faith. Faith ni kwa wale wasio na knowledge.

Kwa hiyo reason na faith kwa mtiririko huu, havichangamani. Sasa Quran itasemaje ina promote reason wakati babsis yake ni submission to Allah unquestioningly?

Kuna reason gani katika ku submit unquestioningly? Kuna uchunguzi gani katika ku submit ?

 

[Abdulhalim]

Kiranga going in cycles..and actually u r wasting my time.Naanza kuchoka kukwambia usome muendelezo wa hoja na nini kilichokuwa contested kwenye posts zilizopita. I'm tired of going back and forth.

Haya ni maneno yako.

Science inaishinda religion katika kufanya uchunguzi, religion haina uchunguzi...(blah blah..)

Sasa linganisha hii, na opening ya post yako #61..unless uniambie uko na multiple personalities.

Nasikitika kuwa siwezi kuwa petty kwa level hiyo ya juvenile.

Pili, kwenda ku-edit post ambayo nimeshaijibu is stupid game.

Tatu, kwenye post # 54 nimesema hivi:

Hoja kuwa dini inafuata reason unaitoa wapi? (usiniletee isolated cases, maana mlitaka tokea mwanzo kutumia 'religion' kama one entity / institution )

Naona hukulizingatia hili na matokeo yake umeniletea gazeti hapo juu kutoka kwa Koran. Refer pia posts # 9 & 13, ambazo nimeongelea kuhusu 'religions' na 'religion'.

Hivo basi sitegemei unukuu post yangu bila kuisoma na kuielewa, otherwise sina muda wa kufanya RECAP.

 

[Nyaralego]

Faith is the opposite of fact, fact is what is established by experience and can be verified, by his very supposed nature god can neither be verified nor comprehended, this is why god is a matter of belief and faith, not fact.

Kwa nini nisimlinganishe mungu na the fairies? Wote hawaonekani, wote ni characters wa vitabu vya hadithi, wote wana nguvu za ajabu kwa mujibu wa hadithi zao.

You fear for my soul? What exactly is a soul? Where does it reside? Have you ever seen one? Measured it?

Hakuna mtu anayeweza kututhibitishia uwepo wa soul, soul ilitumika kuelezea uhai kwa watu waliokuwa hawajajua baiolojia ya uhai, kadiri watu wanavyoelewa baiolojia inavyofanya kazi, wanaona kwamba the soul is a fiction kama vile walivyokuja kugundua kwamba lightning and thunder zinasababishwa na umeme na sio mungu aliyekasirika.

Kama unaamini kuna soul, na kuna mungu, unaamini nini kingine? Jua linazunguka dunia? Musa alipasua bahari ya Sham? Radi inatokana na hasira za mungu?

Mbona hamna mtu anayenijibu maswali yangu kwamba inakuwaje mungu mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote atengeneze ulimwengu wenye uovu kama huu? Inakuwaje mungu akubali tetemeko l ardhi liue watoto wasio hatia huko Haiti? Hata mimi ningekuwa mungu mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote ningeweza kutengeneza ulimwengu ulio bora kuliko huu.

Hebu angalia definition ya neno fact, halafu utuambie ni vipi mungu anakuwa fact

fact   [fakt] Show IPA
–noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.
-Idioms
6.
after the fact, Law . after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.
7.
before the fact, Law . prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.
8.
in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

Fact | Define Fact at Dictionary.com

I mean that my belief in GOD is a FACT, it is a fact for me because i have FAITH. So you do not need to bring a whole description here from some dictionary. You do have a soul and right now it is headed to hell. Only the forgiviness and Mercy of GOD will save you. Repent and HE will recieve you into HIS kingdom.

GOD is the Master scientist. He will let you see and prove some things and completly block your wisdom and discernment when it comes to other things.
GOD made the World perfect then He created your so called 'scientists" with free will and that is when wickedness started. All the bad and evil things in this world are done willfully by human beings, do not blame GOD. If we adhered to the Will of GOD all these wicked and evil things would not be happening.
Just like HE gave you free will and that is the reason you have this debate. YOu have Chosen your side.

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga going in cycles..and actually u r wasting my time.Naanza kuchoka kukwambia usome muendelezo wa hoja na nini kilichokuwa contested kwenye posts zilizopita. I'm tired of going back and forth.

Haya ni maneno yako.




Sasa linganisha hii, na opening ya post yako #61..unless uniambie uko na multiple personalities.

Nasikitika kuwa siwezi kuwa petty kwa level hiyo ya juvenile.

Pili, kwenda ku-edit post ambayo nimeshaijibu is stupid game.

Tatu, kwenye post # 54 nimesema hivi:



Naona hukulizingatia hili na matokeo yake umeniletea gazeti hapo juu kutoka kwa Koran. Refer pia posts # 9 & 13, ambazo nimeongelea kuhusu 'religions' na 'religion'.

Hivo basi sitegemei unukuu post yangu bila kuisoma na kuielewa, otherwise sina muda wa kufanya RECAP.

Kusema "religion haina uchunguzi" si sawa na kusema kama ulivyosema wewe nimesema kwamba "Umekiri kwamba sio jukumu la religion kufanya uchunguzi"

Tunaweza naweza kusema "Tanzania haina haki, sababu ina ufisadi" lakini hii haimaanishi kwamba nasema "Tanzania haina jukumu la kuwa na haki"

Religions zote karibu zina tabia moja ya kuwa two faced, on the one hand zinajifanya kuwa ziko founded on reason, on the other zinakataza uchunguzi. Ndiyo maana nikakwambia religion(s) ina contradiction kwa sababu faith na reason haviendani.

Halafu your distinction ya "religion" na religions" is just as ridiculous as one trying to distinguish "science" na "sciences"

Of course kuna tofauti kati ya religion na religion, as there is between a science and a science, lakini kuna underlying principles zinazolundika na ku define religions zote, na kwa upande wa science, sciences zote.

Kwa religion ni faith na belief ya ku explain the unknown in supernatural ways.Kwa science ni uchunguzi. Kwa hiyo usitake kusema kwamba hatuwezi kuongelea "religion" collectively.

Halafu umenywea kuhusu mifano niliyokuonyesha kuhusu dini inavyojitia kufuata reason.Kama unasema hii ni isolated example nipe dini unayotaka nikutafutie mfano wa kamba zake inavyojidai ku uphold reason wakati kwa kweli ina push for submission.

 

[Kiranga]

I mean that my belief in GOD is a FACT, it is a fact for me because i have FAITH. So you do not need to bring a whole description here from some dictionary. You do have a soul and right now it is headed to hell. Only the forgiviness and Mercy of GOD will save you. Repent and HE will recieve you into HIS kingdom.

GOD is the Master scientist. He will let you see and prove some things and completly block your wisdom and discernment when it comes to other things.
GOD made the World perfect then He created your so called 'scientists" with free will and that is when wickedness started. All the bad and evil things in this world are done willfully by human beings, do not blame GOD. If we adhered to the Will of GOD all these wicked and evil things would not be happening.
Just like HE gave you free will and that is the reason you have this debate. YOu have Chosen your side.

Huelewi tofauti ya belief na fact, belief by definition haiwezi kuwa fact.

Na fact, haiwezi kuwa belief. Ukishasema hii ni belief automatically umesema hii si fact, ukisema hii ni fact automatically umesema hii si belief.

Sasa nashangaa wewe mwenzetu unayesema "my belief is a fact" unapataje belief iliyo fact, contraditicion hii.

Unless uniambie kwamba the fact is you do believe, kwamba hujui kama unachoamini ni fact, lakini unaamini, hapo nitakukubalia. I am not interested in your personal proclivities, for all we know you can tell us the sky is yellow na hatutaweza kukubishia, pengine una ugonjwa wa kuona rangi, tuambie facts zilizo universal.

I don't have a soul and I don't believe in heaven or hell, unless you are talking about heaven and hell here on earth.

And right now I am watching the world cup, I am in heaven. Wee endelea kutegemea pie in the sky wakati wajanja wanakugida katika modern day slavery. Hata wakoloni na wafanya biashara ya watumwa waliwatia woga watu kuishi here and now kwa kuwaambia mkikimbia na kudai uhuru mtaenda kuchomwa moto ahera.

Hamna ahera, mbingu wala moto. mbingu na moto zipio hapahapa duniani, na mungu/ shetani wewe mwenyewe.Ukifanya mazuri unafanya mambo ya kiungu for lack of a better word, na ukifanya vibaya unafanya mambo ya kishetani.

If god made the world perfect, and then created humans with a free will that is capable of producing evil, then god did not create the world so perfect in the first place.

Ukiniambia eti umewafundisha watoto wako tabia nzuri vilivyo bila kukosea (god creating the world perfect) halafu wakaenda kuwa majambazi kwa sababu umewapa uhuru, nitaona mafundisho yako yalikuwa na walakini fulani.

Afadhali kwa mwanadamu mfano huu unaweza kusema kwamba mwanadamu hawezi kumfundisha mtoto mambo yote, na always kunakuwa na room ya mtoto kwenda astray kutokana na outside influence, lakini mungu anaweza yote, n/a ana upendo mkuu, kwa nini kashindwa kutengeneza ulimwengu usio maovu?

 

[ngoshwe]

Science inasisitiza uchunguzi, mchunguzi silaha yake ya kwanza ni kujua kwamba hajui, kwa sababu bila kujua kwamba hujui huwezi kuanza process ya kutaka kujua. Having a lot of questions which cannot be answered by science is perfectly fine to a scientist, in fact the true scientist is always trying to look for questions which cannot be answered by science, not trying to answer these questions on the other hand is unacceptable. Religion is not trying to answer difficult questions, questions such as "What was god doing before he created the earth" St Augustine anawatisha waliouliza hili swali.
.

Na kumbe wewe nawe umetudhirishia pia unachokisema kuhusu sayansi au dini ni kitu usichokijua. Hujui kuwa hujui Mungu yupo na inakupasa ufanye uchunguzi na usifikie jumuisho ambalo kisayansi haupaswa kusem hivyo kwa kuwa hujathibitisha kutokuwepo kwake zaidi ya kutuletea nadharia zisizofanya kazi hapa.!

Kwenye hizo theories za sayansi wala maandiko ya dini kama vipo visivyowezekana, basi ni bora pia ujue kuna yale yasiyowezekana kwako kujua ikiwemo uwepo wa Mungu (kamwe ukiwa na msimamo wa jisni yako wa nadharia, huwezi kujua jambo hili). Kama ukinga'ng'ana kuwa sayansi ni uchunguzi unaoleta matokeo yanayoonekana na wakati huo huo unasema pengine haiwezi kujibu baadhi ya mambo, na pia unasema akili ya mtu ndio inatumika kufanya mambo ya kisayansi, kwa nini basi wewe hufahamu kwa utashi wa akili yako i yale ambayo wenzio wanaweza kuyafanya na kuilazimisha akili yako kuyaamini?.

Kama kuna sayansi inaamini pia kuna sayari au chembe hai na seli ambazo nyingine hatuzioni kwa macho ya kawaida, kwa nini basi usiamini mungu yupo nae pia hawezi kuonekana kwa macho ya kawaida ya binadamu?.

Nadhani unahitaji muda kuelewa na kuelezea hoja zako Mzee!. Unarejea mle mle ambazo wenzio wamepita, hujui kuwa sayansi ni dini nyingine ya watu wasioamini uwepo wa Mungu na chanzo halisi cha mwanadamu na na ndio hao waliojitwika mamlaka ya kuona kuwa vyote vimefanywa na wao!!

 

[Nyaralego]

Huelewi tofauti ya belief na fact, belief by definition haiwezi kuwa fact.

Na fact, haiwezi kuwa belief. Ukishasema hii ni belief automatically umesema hii si fact, ukisema hii ni fact automatically umesema hii si belief.
SEMANTICS
Sasa nashangaa wewe mwenzetu unayesema "my belief is a fact" unapataje belief iliyo fact, contraditicion hii. The contradiction is only to you.

Unless uniambie kwamba the fact is you do believe, kwamba hujui kama unachoamini ni fact, lakini unaamini, hapo nitakukubalia. I am not interested in your personal proclivities,(cheap shot!) for all we know you can tell us the sky is yellow na hatutaweza kukubishia, pengine una ugonjwa wa kuona rangi, tuambie facts zilizo universal. Number one fact is GOD is REAL.

I don't have a soul and I don't believe in heaven or hell, unless you are talking about heaven and hell here on earth.

And right now I am watching the world cup, I am in heaven. Wee endelea kutegemea pie in the sky wakati wajanja wanakugida katika modern day slavery. I am not tegemering a pie in the sky. Nategemea the Kingdom of GOD. You are the one who is enslaved by your thinking.
Hata wakoloni na wafanya biashara ya watumwa waliwatia woga watu kuishi here and now kwa kuwaambia mkikimbia na kudai uhuru mtaenda kuchomwa moto ahera.

Hamna ahera, mbingu wala moto. mbingu na moto zipio hapahapa duniani, na mungu/ shetani wewe mwenyewe.Ukifanya mazuri unafanya mambo ya kiungu for lack of a better word, na ukifanya vibaya unafanya mambo ya kishetani.

If god made the world perfect, and then created humans with a free will that is capable of producing evil, then god did not create the world so perfect in the first place.
Ukiniambia eti umewafundisha watoto wako tabia nzuri vilivyo bila kukosea (god creating the world perfect) halafu wakaenda kuwa majambazi kwa sababu umewapa uhuru, nitaona mafundisho yako yalikuwa na walakini fulani.

Afadhali kwa mwanadamu mfano huu unaweza kusema kwamba mwanadamu hawezi kumfundisha mtoto mambo yote, na always kunakuwa na room ya mtoto kwenda astray kutokana na outside influence, lakini mungu anaweza yote, n/a ana upendo mkuu, kwa nini kashindwa kutengeneza ulimwengu usio maovu?

Ohooo...i understand belief, fact and Faith I can use them interchangeably very well. it is afterall Semantics.
I believe there will be harsh judgement for you. Evil, Wickedness and depravity come from man. God gave man free will na hiyo free is what is making you make statements that are tantamount to mocking God . I can tell you to be careful what you say OR write. Do not for one minute think you have the answers. Nobody does. As much hell and heaven are here on earth, they are going to be there when you die, when your soul will not find peace because of you utterances. You can deny all you want you have a soul and GOD in HIS infinite mercy will forgive you and redeem your soul so that you can enter the HIS kingdom after judgement.

 

[Kiranga]

Na kumbe wewe nawe umetudhirishia pia unachokisema kuhusu sayansi au dini ni kitu usichokijua.

"umetudhirishia" ndiyo nini? kama hujui spelling za Kiswahili utaweza kujadili undani wa falsafa ya theolojia?

Wapi nimesema sayansi na dini ni kitu nisichokijua? kwanza "sayansi na dini" itakuwaje "kitu" ? una matatizo ya kufikiri?

Sikusema kwamba "sayansi na dini" ni vitu nisivyovijua, nimesema "Science inasisitiza uchunguzi, mchunguzi silaha yake ya kwanza ni kujua kwamba hajui, kwa sababu bila kujua kwamba hujui huwezi kuanza process ya kutaka kujua" kuna vitu najua, na kuna vitu sijui, na vitu ninavyojua najua kwamba najua, na vitu nisivyojua najua kwamba sijui, na natafuta majibu ya vile nisivyovijua. Tatizo la dini haikubali kwamba haina majibu ya maswali mengi, inadanganya, inaanza kuleta jibu la mungu kwa maswali wasiyoyajua majibu.Kwangu mimi ni bora sayansi ina honesty ya kukubali kwamba hatujui kutibu kansa, kuliko dini inayokwambia dawa ya kansa ni kumuombea mtu.

Hujui kuwa hujui, kwenye hizo theories za sayansi wala maandiko ya dini.

Sijui kuwa sijui nini? Mbona mnashindwa kunielewesha hapa kitu chochote specific? Mbona mnashindwa kueleza kwa nini mungu kaumba ulimwengu wenye maafa na majanga yanayowaumiza watu wasio na hatia? Mbona mnashindwa kujibu swali la kwamba, kama intelligence inahitaji muumba, mungu mnaemsema yuko more intelligent zaidi ya binadamu kaumbwa na nani?

Nani hajui kwamba hajui, mimi ninayeuliza maswali mnayoshindwa kujibu au nyie msio na majibu lakini mnaong'ang'ania kumtetea mungu asiyeweza kujitetea mwenyewe?

Kama ukinga'ng'ana kuw sayansi ni uchunguzi unaoleta matokeo yanayoonekana na wakati huo huo unasema pengine haiwezi kujibu baadhi ya mambo, na pia unasema akili ya mtu ndio inatumika kufanya mambo ya kisayansi, kwa nini basi wewe huwezi kufanya yale ambayo wenzio wanaweza?.

This question shows either your lack of communication skills or mental retardation, yaani halimake sense kabisa.Unauliza kwa nini mimi siwezi kufanya wanayoweza wengine? What is your point exactly? Inaonekana hata huwezi ku maintain a clear train of thoughts, you are everywhere, unauliza maswali ili uulize tu.Unaelekea wapi na swali hili?

Nikikujibu "Kwa sababu kila mtu ni tofauti na ana uwezo tofauti.Kuna mengine ambayo mimi ninaweza na wenzangu hawawezi" utaendelezaje hii retarded line of questioning?

Kama kuna sayansi inaamini pia kuna sayari au chembe hai na seli ambazo nyingine hatuzioni kwa macho ya kawaida, kwa nini basi usiamini mungu yupo nae pia hawezi kuonekana kwa macho ya kawaida ya binadamu?.

Hakuna chochote ambacho huwezi kukiona kwa macho ya kawaida katika hivyo ulivyovitaja. Na hata kitu kisipoonekana kwa macho ya kawaida, naweza ku entertain existence yake kama kuna logical consistency katika kukielezea. Atomic theory ilianza kukubalika long before watu hawajawa na uwezo wa kuona / kusmash atoms, lakini ilikuwa na logical consistency.

Mungu wenu huyu wa Judeo-Christian faith na wafuasi wake wote hawana logical consistency, on the one hand unaambiwa mwanadamu ni lazima awe ameumbwa na mungu kwa sababu yuko too intelligence kutokea hivi hivi tu, on the other hand, mungu ambaye yuko even more complex kuliko binadamu, some would say infinitely more complex, anaweza kuwepo tu bila muumba.

Nimeuliza hapa, kama huamini punje ya mchanga inaweza kutokea yenyewe bila kuumbwa, utaamini vipi universe yote iweze kutokea bila kuumbwa?

Ukichunguza utaona kwa mfumo huu wa complexity kuhitaji muumbaji utarun into an infinitum of waumbaji.

Nadhani unahitaji muda kuelezea hoja zako Mzee Kiranga!. Unarejea mle mle ambazpo wenzio wamepita.

Nahitaji muda kuelezea hoja zangu zipi? Nafikiri wewe pamoja na wenzako mnaoshabikia dini ndio mnahitaji muda kuzisoma hoja zangu na kujibu maswali yangu.

Mbona maswali yangu yanaelea tu wakati maswali yenu nayajibu?

Kati ya mimi ninayejibu maswali na nyinyi msiojibu nani anahitaji kuchukua muda wa kujieleza zaidi?

 

[Kiranga]

Ohooo...i understand belief, fact and Faith I can use them interchangeably very well. it is afterall Semantics.
I believe there will be harsh judgement for you. Evil, Wickedness and depravity come from man. God gave man free will na hiyo free is what is making you make statements that are tantamount to mocking God . I can tell you to be careful what you say OR write. Do not for one minute think you have the answers. Nobody does. As much hell and heaven are here on earth, they are going to be there when you die, when your soul will not find peace because of you utterances. You can deny all you want you have a soul and GOD in HIS infinite mercy will forgive you and redeem your soul so that you can enter the HIS kingdom after judgement.

Wewe usinitishe wala nini, nishampa mungu chance ya kuni strike down dead mara kibao hapa na kashindwa.

Mungu ni fix tupu, hamna mungu."Mungu" katengenezwa na binadamu na anatumiwa na wajanja kuwa control wajinga.

Nani kasema I have the answers? Kati ya anayejifanya anamjua mungu, na anayekubali kwamba hawezi kusema anamjua mungu kwa sababu mungu hajajidhihirisha kwake, nani anajifanya anajua majibu?

As far as I know kifo ndiyo mwisho wa mchezo, hizo bs nyingine za mbingu ni watu wanataka kujifariji kwamba eti kutakuwa na kuonana tena na wapendwa wetu.Na wengine wanataka uwafanyie kazi hapa duniani na kukupa ahadi za "pie in the sky". Kifo ndiyo mwisho wa mchezo, na vitisho vyako vya soul yangu kwenda motoni havinibabaishi kwa sababu mimi kwanza najua kwamba sina hata hiyo soul.

 

[Kiranga]

Kwa believers wote, since they have the burden of proof for making the positive assertion that god exists. I have one request. Very simple in its nature.

Prove to me that god exists.

 

[ngoshwe]

"umetudhirishia" ndiyo nini? kama hujui spelling za Kiswahili utaweza kujadili undani wa falsafa ya theolojia?

Wapi nimesema sayansi na dini ni kitu nisichokijua? kwanza "sayansi na dini" itakuwaje "kitu" ? una matatizo ya kufikiri?

Sikusema kwamba "sayansi na dini" ni vitu nisivyovijua, nimesema "Science inasisitiza uchunguzi, mchunguzi silaha yake ya kwanza ni kujua kwamba hajui, kwa sababu bila kujua kwamba hujui huwezi kuanza process ya kutaka kujua" kuna vitu najua, na kuna vitu sijui, na vitu ninavyojua najua kwamba najua, na vitu nisivyojua najua kwamba sijui, na natafuta majibu ya vile nisivyovijua. Tatizo la dini haikubali kwamba haina majibu ya maswali mengi, inadanganya, inaanza kuleta jibu la mungu kwa maswali wasiyoyajua majibu.Kwangu mimi ni bora sayansi ina honesty ya kukubali kwamba hatujui kutibu kansa, kuliko dini inayokwambia dawa ya kansa ni kumuombea mtu.



Sijui kuwa sijui nini? Mbona mnashindwa kunielewesha hapa kitu chochote specific? Mbona mnashindwa kueleza kwa nini mungu kaumba ulimwengu wenye maafa na majanga yanayowaumiza watu wasio na hatia? Mbona mnashindwa kujibu swali la kwamba, kama intelligence inahitaji muumba, mungu mnaemsema yuko more intelligent zaidi ya binadamu kaumbwa na nani?

Nani hajui kwamba hajui, mimi ninayeuliza maswali mnayoshindwa kujibu au nyie msio na majibu lakini mnaong'ang'ania kumtetea mungu asiyeweza kujitetea mwenyewe?




This question shows either your lack of communication skills or mental retardation, yaani halimake sense kabisa.Unauliza kwa nini mimi siwezi kufanya wanayoweza wengine? What is your point exactly? Inaonekana hata huwezi ku maintain a clear train of thoughts, you are everywhere, unauliza maswali ili uulize tu.Unaelekea wapi na swali hili?

Nikikujibu "Kwa sababu kila mtu ni tofauti na ana uwezo tofauti.Kuna mengine ambayo mimi ninaweza na wenzangu hawawezi" utaendelezaje hii retarded line of questioning?



Hakuna chochote ambacho huwezi kukiona kwa macho ya kawaida katika hivyo ulivyovitaja. Na hata kitu kisipoonekana kwa macho ya kawaida, naweza ku entertain existence yake kama kuna logical consistency katika kukielezea. Atomic theory ilianza kukubalika long before watu hawajawa na uwezo wa kuona / kusmash atoms, lakini ilikuwa na logical consistency.

Mungu wenu huyu wa Judeo-Christian faith na wafuasi wake wote hawana logical consistency, on the one hand unaambiwa mwanadamu ni lazima awe ameumbwa na mungu kwa sababu yuko too intelligence kutokea hivi hivi tu, on the other hand, mungu ambaye yuko even more complex kuliko binadamu, some would say infinitely more complex, anaweza kuwepo tu bila muumba.

Nimeuliza hapa, kama huamini punje ya mchanga inaweza kutokea yenyewe bila kuumbwa, utaamini vipi universe yote iweze kutokea bila kuumbwa?

Ukichunguza utaona kwa mfumo huu wa complexity kuhitaji muumbaji utarun into an infinitum of waumbaji.



Nahitaji muda kuelezea hoja zangu zipi? Nafikiri wewe pamoja na wenzako mnaoshabikia dini ndio mnahitaji muda kuzisoma hoja zangu na kujibu maswali yangu.

Mbona maswali yangu yanaelea tu wakati maswali yenu nayajibu?

Kati ya mimi ninayejibu maswali na nyinyi msiojibu nani anahitaji kuchukua muda wa kujieleza zaidi?

Nachopata kutoka kwako ni mgongano wa hoja tupu, na inawezekana kabisa uelewa wako katika haya mambo bado ni finyu sana!. Unapinga jambo ambalo baadae unaonyesha kukubalina nalo kwa upande mmoja au mwingine. Kama unadhani punje ya mchanga inaweza kutokea yenyewe bila kuumbwa, na wakati huo huo unajenga hoja ya kutokuwepo kwa uumbaji wa vitu ikiwemo dunia, ni wazi kuwa ungaweza pia kutofautina na mfuasi wa dini ya kawaida (anayeamini kuwa mungu yupo) kwa kuwa nguvu na akili yako pekee pasipo mahusiano ya na nguv nyingine usizozijua kwa akili yako ndivyo vinakufanya huwe hivyo ulivyo.

Unashindwa kujibu kwa ufasaha hoja ya lini dunia ilianza na nini chanzo na mwisho wa wanadamu wa kawaida katika sura ya hii dunia,(unarejea kwenye google ambapo kila mtu kama wewe anaweza kuweka chchote anachoona kinaweza kusomeka!!). Kama kuna vitu ambavyo unakili kwa kinywa chalko kuwa huviji katika hiyo sayansi, basi kimoja wapo inawezekana kabisa hujui uwepo wa nguvu zilizojuu ya uwezo wa mwanadamu wa kawaida na nguvu hizo ndizo ambazo wengine wanazifauata na zipo consistency kuliko nadharia za sayansi.

Pengine uelewe kuwa uwepo wa Sayansi ni simulizi la binadamu ambaye ni huyo huyo ambaye anajaribu kupotosha uwepo wa nguvu nyingine ambazo kwa akili yake ya kawaida hawezi kujua uwepo wake mpaka awe mwamini katika hilo. Hizi zote zako ni nadharia pia zilizokufa na wale ambao hata leo hujui walitoka na wamekwenda wapi na ukiulizwa utajibu pia kwa nadharia hiyo hiyo!!.

 

[ngoshwe]

Kwa believers wote, since they have the burden of proof for making the positive assertion that god exists. I have one request. Very simple in its nature.

Prove to me that god exists.

That is very simple, moyo wako unaweza kukudhihirishia hilo. Ujiulize kabla ya hapo ulipo ulikuwa wapi na kwa nini wewe upo hivyo ulivyo na usiwe kama Newton na hao wengine. Na kwa nini sayansi inaweza kuponya lakini haitengenezi maisha ya wala kurejesha mtu aliyekufa!!. iulize kwa nini upo hivyo ulivyo mara nyingi, kwa nini ukikosa hewa huwezi kuishi, kwa nini ukikosa damu huwezi kuishi, kwa nini sayansi haiwezi kubadilisha mfumo wa kawaida wa kumwezesha binadamu kuishi ikiwemo kutoa moyo na kuweka kiungo kingine tofauti, kutoa damu na kuwmekea mafuta ya petrol nk nk...Jiulize ukiwa huna athari ya mawazo ya kisayansi ya kupinga ukweli wa yale usiyoyajua na kuyaona kwa macho yako.

 

[paradox]

Nachopata kutoka kwako ni mgongano wa hoja tupu, na inawezekana kabisa uelewa wako katika haya mambo bado ni finyu sana!. Unapinga jambo ambalo baadae unaonyesha kukubalina nalo kwa upande mmoja au mwingine. Kama unadhani punje ya mchanga inaweza kutokea yenyewe bila kuumbwa, na wakati huo huo unajenga hoja ya kutokuwepo kwa uumbaji wa vitu ikiwemo dunia, ni wazi kuwa ungaweza pia kutofautina na mfuasi wa dini ya kawaida (anayeamini kuwa mungu yupo) kwa kuwa nguvu na akili yako pekee pasipo mahusiano ya na nguv nyingine usizozijua kwa akili yako ndivyo vinakufanya huwe hivyo ulivyo.

Unashindwa kujibu kwa ufasaha hoja ya lini dunia ilianza na nini chanzo na mwisho wa wanadamu wa kawaida katika sura ya hii dunia,(unarejea kwenye google ambapo kila mtu kama wewe anaweza kuweka chchote anachoona kinaweza kusomeka!!). Kama kuna vitu ambavyo unakili kwa kinywa chalko kuwa huviji katika hiyo sayansi, basi kimoja wapo inawezekana kabisa hujui uwepo wa nguvu zilizojuu ya uwezo wa mwanadamu wa kawaida na nguvu hizo ndizo ambazo wengine wanazifauata na zipo consistency kuliko nadharia za sayansi.

Pengine uelewe kuwa uwepo wa Sayansi ni simulizi la binadamu ambaye ni huyo huyo ambaye anajaribu kupotosha uwepo wa nguvu nyingine ambazo kwa akili yake ya kawaida hawezi kujua uwepo wake mpaka awe mwamini katika hilo. Hizi zote zako ni nadharia pia zilizokufa na wale ambao hata leo hujui walitoka na wamekwenda wapi na ukiulizwa utajibu pia kwa nadharia hiyo hiyo!!.

Seriously any further argument with this dude is clearly a waste of energy, Kiranga's resolve so far is quite admirable, sijaona mgongano wa hoja kwenye any of his\her posts, the debate has gone from interesting to dull for me at least, I don't even see the point of challenging someone on something so obvious.
Can I ask Religion inaishinda Science katika nini?? The question asked in the first page by Abdulhalim was quite thoroughly answered so I can only imagine that he (Abdulhalim) or anybody else can answer my question just as thoroughly.

 

[Kiranga]

Nachopata kutoka kwako ni mgongano wa hoja tupu, na inawezekana kabisa uelewa wako katika haya mambo bado ni finyu sana!.

Ninachopata kutoka kwako ni kwamba level yako ya comprehension iko dangerously low.

Unapinga jambo ambalo baadae unaonyesha kukubalina nalo kwa upande mmoja au mwingine.

Hebu tuone jambo gani hilo? This is getting interesting

Kama unadhani punje ya mchanga inaweza kutokea yenyewe bila kuumbwa, na wakati huo huo unajenga hoja ya kutokuwepo kwa uumbaji wa vitu ikiwemo dunia, ni wazi kuwa ungaweza pia kutofautina na mfuasi wa dini ya kawaida (anayeamini kuwa mungu yupo)

This is exactly my position

kwa kuwa nguvu na akili yako pekee pasipo mahusiano ya na nguv nyingine usizozijua kwa akili yako ndivyo vinakufanya huwe hivyo ulivyo.

Hebu niambie nguvu gani hizo nisizozijua? Ningependa kuzifahamu. Nimeuliza hapo juu kwa waamini wote wa mungu in his Judeo-Christian form na all the other "higher power types" wanaoamini supernatural powers, hebu nitoleeni proof ya kwamba imani zenu zinazaa facts, nionyesheni proof kwamba mungu yupo in fact.Sijaona jibu bado.

Unashindwa kujibu kwa ufasaha hoja ya lini dunia ilianza na nini chanzo na mwisho wa wanadamu wa kawaida katika sura ya hii dunia,(unarejea kwenye google ambapo kila mtu kama wewe anaweza kuweka chchote anachoona kinaweza kusomeka!!).

Sioni unataka kujua majibu ya maswali haya ili iweje.Nikikwambia dunia ina miaka 4.5 billion, chanzo cha wanadamu ni evolution iliyoanza katika a primordial soup na mwisho wake ni kifo, utasemaje? Au ushashindwa kujibu maswali unataka ku divert mjadala uliopo?

Kama kuna vitu ambavyo unakili kwa kinywa chalko kuwa huviji katika hiyo sayansi, basi kimoja wapo inawezekana kabisa hujui uwepo wa nguvu zilizojuu ya uwezo wa mwanadamu wa kawaida na nguvu hizo ndizo ambazo wengine wanazifauata na zipo consistency kuliko nadharia za sayansi.

Nguvu kama nguvu gani? Can you be specific please na kuacha ku generalize?

Pengine uelewe kuwa uwepo wa Sayansi ni simulizi la binadamu ambaye ni huyo huyo ambaye anajaribu kupotosha uwepo wa nguvu nyingine ambazo kwa akili yake ya kawaida hawezi kujua uwepo wake mpaka awe mwamini katika hilo. Hizi zote zako ni nadharia pia zilizokufa na wale ambao hata leo hujui walitoka na wamekwenda wapi na ukiulizwa utajibu pia kwa nadharia hiyo hiyo!!.

Sawa,

Lakini mimi naona kama kuna upotoshaji katika sayansi (ni kweli kuna upotoshaji katika the politics za sayansi) ni bora kuwa na upotoshaji katika system yenye checks and balances na peer review, watu wanafanya ma experiment mpaka leo kupinga theories za Einstein zilizokuwa verified beyond doubt back in 1919 huko.

Kuliko upotoshaji wa dini ambao unawafanya watu waamini kwamba watu fulani wana direct line na mungu, papa hakosei, vitabu vimeandikwa na mungu na bs nyingine kama hizo.Nipe upotoshaji wa sayansi any day, kwa sababu nina uhuru wa ku-uquestion.

Upotoshaji wa dini on the other hand ni wa kidikteta, unapotoshwa halafu unaambiwa huna haki hata ya kuuliza maswali.Ukiuliza unakufuru.

Submit to Jehovan or Allah.

Ndio upuuzi nisiotaka mimi huo.

 

[Hukumuzuku]

Ninachopata kutoka kwako ni kwamba level yako ya comprehension iko dangerously low.

Unawatuhumu wenzako kuwa wana "low level of comprehension" wakati huna sense of originality hata kidogo? Arguments zote unazotumia ni ideas za watu wengine, wewe umezisoma tu mahali unakuja kuringa nazo humu utadhani umezibuni mwenyewe.

Halafu hiyo dini yako ya Sayansi na nadharia zake unazoabudu, wewe binafsi umetoa mchango gani unaotambulika kuziendeleza, zaidi ya ku-drop names of Dead White Men?

 

[Kiranga]

Unawatuhumu wenzako kuwa wana "low level of comprehension" wakati huna sense of originality hata kidogo? Arguments zote unazotumia ni ideas za watu wengine, wewe umezisoma tu mahali unakuja kuringa nazo humu utadhani umezibuni mwenyewe.

Halafu hiyo dini yako ya Sayansi na nadharia zake unazoabudu, wewe binafsi umetoa mchango gani unaotambulika kuziendeleza, zaidi ya ku-drop names of Dead White Men?

Sijasema chochote kuhusu level yake ya originality, nimeongelea comprehension. Unafanya comparison ya "apples to oranges" na wewe unaelekea kwa mwenzako huko kwenye low level ya comprehension.Nikikwambia naamini there is hardly anything new under the sun na vitu karibu vyote vimeandikwa, na however big a breakthrough you will make today in quantum physics or some obscure field, wahindi watakuwa walishawahi kuliandika katika ma Rig-Veda huko maelfu ya miaka iliyopita, Wayunani walishayasema, kina Edgar Allan Poe walishayaandikia mashairi na kina H.G Wells walishayaandikia hadithi za science fiction? Utasemaje? Nikikwambia hakuna haja ya ku reinvert the wheel wakati maswala tunayobishana hapa watu wameshabishana kwa maelfu ya miaka, utasemaje?

Si bora hata mimi ninayesoma na kujua the classic arguments za haya maswala, kuna wajomba wajomba wanakuja hapa hata spellings za kiswahili matatizo.Hayo huoni, unaona kwamba sina originality.

Kama your main problem ni kwamba sina originality I am pleased, kwa sababu bila originality nawa stop hawa theists, hata sihitaji originality, nahitaji kujua main issues tu.

Wewe unayetilia mkazo originality sana una kitu gani original? Kumshambulia mtu kwa kitu ambacho hajatamba nacho siyo kitu original kabisa.

Sayansi si dini, na wala siiabudu, ndiyo maana natilia mkazo uchunguzi binafsi na verification.Hata ningekuwa na mchango katika sayansi nisingekuambia, kwa sababu kwamgu mimi privacy ni muhimu na sitaki ku compromise privacy yangu.

Wewe unayenishambulia mimi nisiye na mchango wowote katika sayansi, una mchango gani katika kitu gani?

Dead White men? Kati ya mimi ninayequote scientific work ya western world kwa sababu yetu haikuwa documented, na wewe mwenye avatar ya a fat white man, nani anahusudu white people?

Baniani mbaya, kiatu chake dawa, hapo hapo unatukana watu weupe, hapo hapo unatumia teknolojia yao kuingia kwenye internet na kupost hapa JF.

Acha kuwa shallow.

 

[ngoshwe]

Unawatuhumu wenzako kuwa wana "low level of comprehension" wakati huna sense of originality hata kidogo? Arguments zote unazotumia ni ideas za watu wengine, wewe umezisoma tu mahali unakuja kuringa nazo humu utadhani umezibuni mwenyewe.

Halafu hiyo dini yako ya Sayansi na nadharia zake unazoabudu, wewe binafsi umetoa mchango gani unaotambulika kuziendeleza, zaidi ya ku-drop names of Dead White Men?

Totally Agree with you. Kiranga yaonekana anaishi kwa kubeza wangine lakini kwa kanuni hiyo hiyo kuna wale ambao anawafuata kwa kuona kuwa walikuwa na ideas ambazo zinasimama pasipo kubadilika ambazo kwake anaziita "sayansi".

Waweza kusoma hii na kuona kutofautina kwa misimamo ya kiitikadi kati ya wale waliojua na kujifunza na wale wanaowafuata pasipo kujua wajifunzalo. Hataki kuamini kuwa sayansi nayo ni dini kwa ya aina ya watu wasioamini kukwepo kwa vile ambavyo wengine wanaviamini.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]--Exhibit Contents-- Exhibit HOME Formative Years The Great Works - 1905 World Fame Public Concerns Quantum and Cosmos Nuclear Age Science and Philosophy "The World As I See It" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - More About Einstein Site Contents [/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"How strange is the lot of us mortals! Each of us is here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose he knows not, though he sometimes thinks he senses it. But without deeper reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people -- first of all for those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness is wholly dependent, and then for the many, unknown to us, to whose destinies we are bound by the ties of sympathy. A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving... [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I have never looked upon ease and happiness as ends in themselves -- this critical basis I call the ideal of a pigsty. The ideals that have lighted my way, and time after time have given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Kindness, Beauty, and Truth. Without the sense of kinship with men of like mind, without the occupation with the objective world, the eternally unattainable in the field of art and scientific endeavors, life would have seemed empty to me. The trite objects of human efforts -- possessions, outward success, luxury -- have always seemed to me contemptible. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"My passionate sense of social justice and social responsibility has always contrasted oddly with my pronounced lack of need for direct contact with other human beings and human communities. I am truly a 'lone traveler' and have never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart; in the face of all these ties, I have never lost a sense of distance and a need for solitude..." [/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"My political ideal is democracy. Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolized. It is an irony of fate that I myself have been the recipient of excessive admiration and reverence from my fellow-beings, through no fault, and no merit, of my own. The cause of this may well be the desire, unattainable for many, to understand the few ideas to which I have with my feeble powers attained through ceaseless struggle. I am quite aware that for any organization to reach its goals, one man must do the thinking and directing and generally bear the responsibility. But the led must not be coerced, they must be able to choose their leader. In my opinion, an autocratic system of coercion soon degenerates; force attracts men of low morality... The really valuable thing in the pageant of human life seems to me not the political state, but the creative, sentient individual, the personality; it alone creates the noble and the sublime, while the herd as such remains dull in thought and dull in feeling. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"This topic brings me to that worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor... This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them! [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence -- as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."[/FONT]

 

[Kiranga]

Totally Agree with you. Kiranga yaonekana anaishi kwa kubeza wangine lakini kwa kanuni hiyo hiyo kuna wale ambao anawafuata kwa kuona kuwa walikuwa na ideas ambazo zinasimama pasipo kubadilika ambazo kwake anaziita "sayansi".

Waweza kusoma hii na kuona kutofautina kwa misimamo ya kiitikadi kati ya wale waliojua na kujifunza na wale wanaowafuata pasipo kujua wajifunzalo. Hataki kuamini kuwa sayansi nayo ni dini kwa ya aina ya watu wasioamini kukwepo kwa vile ambavyo wengine wanaviamini.

What exactly are you saying? Unaweza ku articulate ? By the way Einstein si mungu alikosea mara nyingi tu, na sayansi si mtu mmoja. Unachotaka kusema na hii essay ni nini? Nishasoma si tu hii essay, bali kitabu kizima cha essays zote muhimu za Einstein, niambie unataka kusema nini specifically, the key word being specifically.

Achana na Einstein huyo, kuna Newton aliyekuwa a horrible theist, na a great scientist.Lakini hili haliwezi kuwa basis ya kunifanya niamini katika mungu.Kama kuna kitu sayansi imenifundisha, ni kwamba usijudge ukweli wa mambo kwa sababu mtu fulani kayasema, mtume fulani, au mwanasayansi maarufu fulani kayasema, ukifanya hivi utakuwa unaingia katika cult/ religion.

Ninachofanya ni ku judge mambo kutokana na merit yake, bila kujali nani kayasema.

Kwa hiyo ukitaka kuni impress kwa kuniletea maneno ya Einstein, kama yatakuwa ya kipuuzi hayaachi kuwa ya kipuuzi, Einstein alikosea kwenye Cosmological Constant, na huo haukuwa mwanzo wala mwisho wa kukosea kwake.Uzuri sayansi inaruhusu mtu kukosea, sio kama kanisa katoliki kwamba ukiwa papa huwezi kukosea.

Kwa hiyo leta hoja, usilete cut and paste ambazo hazina maelezo.

 

[paradox]

Unawatuhumu wenzako kuwa wana "low level of comprehension" wakati huna sense of originality hata kidogo? Arguments zote unazotumia ni ideas za watu wengine, wewe umezisoma tu mahali unakuja kuringa nazo humu utadhani umezibuni mwenyewe.

Halafu hiyo dini yako ya Sayansi na nadharia zake unazoabudu, wewe binafsi umetoa mchango gani unaotambulika kuziendeleza, zaidi ya ku-drop names of Dead White Men?

You know this got me thinking, what is so original about any of the arguments the religious folk have posted so far anyway?? Is it the belief in a 'white' Jewish messiah or a 'brown' Middle Eastern prophet, can anyone here honestly argue in the defense of religion without using examples, beliefs and teachings from long dead Jewish and Arab people, who wrote books that might have held water in their times but are so obviously outdated in the 21st century? Colour coding some of the great scientists of our time won't really get us anywhere will it now. . .:twitch: