Shroud of Turin: Real or Fake?

Ab-Titchaz

JF-Expert Member
Jan 30, 2008
14,631
4,225
Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin


r1002045249.jpg

The Turin Shroud is shown in this August 1978 file photo in negative version

By Philip Pullella Philip Pullella

ROME (Reuters) – An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.

The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ.
"We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday.

A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.

The Shroud of Turin shows the back and front of a bearded man with long hair, his arms crossed on his chest, while the entire cloth is marked by what appears to be rivulets of blood from wounds in the wrists, feet and side.

Carbon dating tests by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Arizona in 1988 caused a sensation by dating it from between 1260 and 1390. Sceptics said it was a hoax, possibly made to attract the profitable medieval pilgrimage business.

But scientists have thus far been at a loss to explain how the image was left on the cloth.
Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages.

They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face.

PIGMENT, BLOODSTAINS AND SCORCHES

The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries.

They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.

The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion.

One of Christianity's most disputed relics, it is locked away at Turin Cathedral in Italy and rarely exhibited. It was last on display in 2000 and is due to be shown again next year.
Garlaschelli expects people to contest his findings.

"If they don't want to believe carbon dating done by some of the world's best laboratories they certainly won't believe me," he said.

The accuracy of the 1988 tests was challenged by some hard-core believers who said restorations of the Shroud in past centuries had contaminated the results.

The history of the Shroud is long and controversial.

After surfacing in the Middle East and France, it was brought by Italy's former royal family, the Savoys, to their seat in Turin in 1578. In 1983 ex-King Umberto II bequeathed it to the late Pope John Paul.

The Shroud narrowly escaped destruction in 1997 when a fire ravaged the Guarini Chapel of the Turin cathedral where it is held. The cloth was saved by a fireman who risked his life.

Garlaschelli received funding for his work by an Italian association of atheists and agnostics but said it had no effect on his results. "Money has no odor," he said. "This was done scientifically. If the Church wants to fund me in the future, here I am."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091005/sc_nm/us_italy_shroud
 
nakumbuka tukiwa high school tuli-debate hii ishu sana na mwalimu wangu wa physics. Yeye ni aethiest. Mimi kusema kweli sioni umuhimu wowote wa hii kitu. Kwanza inaweka imani ya mtu katika physical things badala ya Yesu mwenyewe. Kama unasubiri kuiona hii shraud ndo uamini Yesu ni Mungu...basi umeumia. Kanisa linapovipa hivi vitu umuhimu, nahisi linapoteza muelekeo.
 
Mazee hii mbona watu wamesha i debunk siku nyingi tu?

Achana na hiyo shroud of Turin, huyo Yesu mwenyewe alikuwa mythical figure, tatizo haya mambo yako so dear to our hearts tunapochunguza hatutaki kuwa rational.It is almost like we are subconsciously protecting a fantasy.
 
nakumbuka tukiwa high school tuli-debate hii ishu sana na mwalimu wangu wa physics. Yeye ni aethiest. Mimi kusema kweli sioni umuhimu wowote wa hii kitu. Kwanza inaweka imani ya mtu katika physical things badala ya Yesu mwenyewe. Kama unasubiri kuiona hii shraud ndo uamini Yesu ni Mungu...basi umeumia. Kanisa linapovipa hivi vitu umuhimu, nahisi linapoteza muelekeo.

The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion.
Mkuu kama unavyo ona hiyo quote hapo kanisa haijaipa hii kitu kipaumbele.
 
Mkuu kama unavyo ona hiyo quote hapo kanisa haijaipa hii kitu kipaumbele.

Japo kanisa halijaipa kipaumbele, I believe most believers hold
this thing to be very dear to their faith and thats where the issue lies.
Kulingana na hii kauli it is very obvious huyu bwana anajua kanisa litakuja
juu....

"Money has no odor," he said. "This was done scientifically. If the Church wants to fund me in the future, here I am."
 
Mazee hii mbona watu wamesha i debunk siku nyingi tu?

Achana na hiyo shroud of Turin, huyo Yesu mwenyewe alikuwa mythical figure, tatizo haya mambo yako so dear to our hearts tunapochunguza hatutaki kuwa rational.It is almost like we are subconsciously protecting a fantasy.
mmmhhh!..mwanamume sikuwezi. Subiri watakuja wenyewe hapa muanze
hio ishu ya ku-debunk hizi mystics or fantasies as you put it.Yangu ni
macho tu.
 
..tunajua yesu na Muhammad nao ni fake tuu na wala hawajawahi kutokea!
 
Japo kanisa halijaipa kipaumbele, I believe most believers hold
this thing to be very dear to their faith and thats where the issue lies.
Kulingana na hii kauli it is very obvious huyu bwana anajua kanisa litakuja
juu....


Mkuu personally I don't believe in this shroud. Kwa sababu nisha wahi kuona kipindi kinacho elezea authenticity ya hii kitu na chances of it being authentic is very little. I have the Bible which tells me what to believe in and it never said any thing about a shroud. Thus the shroud is irrelevant to my belief or path to salvation. Sorry kwa wenye kuamini tofauti.
 
Mkuu kama unavyo ona hiyo quote hapo kanisa haijaipa hii kitu kipaumbele.

mh, Kanisa imeipa hii kitu kipaumbele sana. Kwanza imekataza wana sayansi kuifanyia kazi kwa kusudi la kujua ukweli wake. Soma historia yake, utaelewa.
 
Points to ponder....

The Shroud of Turin (or Turin Shroud) is a linen cloth bearing the image of a man presumed to be Jesus Christ who appears to have been physically hurt in a manner consistent with crucifixion. It is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, Italy. It is believed by many to be the cloth placed on the body of Jesus at the time of his burial, while others argue that the artifact may postdate the death of Jesus Christ by more than a millennium.


The shroud is the subject of intense debate among scientists, people of faith, historians, and writers regarding where, when, and how the shroud and its images were created. From a religious standpoint, in 1958 Pope Pius XII approved of the image in association with the Roman Catholic devotion to the Holy Face of Jesus, celebrated every year on Shrove Tuesday. Some believe the shroud is the cloth that covered Jesus when he was placed in his tomb and that his image was recorded on its fibers at or near the time of his resurrection.
 
nakumbuka tukiwa high school tuli-debate hii ishu sana na mwalimu wangu wa physics. Yeye ni aethiest. Mimi kusema kweli sioni umuhimu wowote wa hii kitu. Kwanza inaweka imani ya mtu katika physical things badala ya Yesu mwenyewe. Kama unasubiri kuiona hii shraud ndo uamini Yesu ni Mungu...basi umeumia. Kanisa linapovipa hivi vitu umuhimu, nahisi linapoteza muelekeo.
Mtoto, waandika "mh, Kanisa imeipa hii kitu kipaumbele sana. Kwanza imekataza wana sayansi kuifanyia kazi kwa kusudi la kujua ukweli wake. Soma historia yake, utaelewa." Sasa mbona unajichanganya na kunichanganya mimi.

Maelezo yako hapo juu na haya niliyoyanukuru hayaweki wazi msimamo wako wewe mwenyewe.

Kwa upande wangu naona uchunguzi ufanywe tu. ajaibu litalopatikana halitamlazimisha yeyote yule kuamini kuwa Yesu ni/si Mungu. Muumini siku zote ataamini vile vile aaminivyo.

Imani yako isiyumbishwe na wanasayansi. Lakini kama ukweli umekuingia usisite kubadili imani yako, kwani wewe si wa kwanza na wala hutakuwa wa mwisho kubadili imani.
 
Kwa wale ambao ni wepesi kutoa incoherent and idiotic conclusion kila mnapoliona neno 'kanisa Katoliki' labda niwape vitu vya kufikiri, japo kidogo:

Since we're not dealing with a matter of faith, (with testing the genuinity of the Shroud, I guess) the church can't pronounce itself on such questions. It entrusts to scientists the tasks of continuing to investigate, to reach adequate answers to the questions connected to this Shroud
- Pope John Paul II
 
0 Reactions
Reply
Back
Top Bottom