Should the ICC be involved in this?

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

There are several facts that need to be taken into account before the ICC has jurisdiction in any investigation and later prosecution;

Generally, the ICC has jurisdiction to prosecute a case when a state party is unwilling or unable genuinely to carry out the investigation or prosecution, and (b) a state party has decided not to prosecute the persons concerned [see article 17 of the ICC Statute]

Issues:

(i). Are the crimes investigated within the jurisdiction of the ICC, according the Rome Statute of the ICC?

-The ICC has jurisdiction on the following crimes: (1) Genocide, (2) Crimes against humanity, (3)War Crimes, (4) Aggression [ Article 5]
The crimes that you allege in your question may fall within crimes against humanity, even though trafficking in arms is not a recognized crime under the ICC Statute.

(ii). Before the ICC prosecutor initiates an investigation, the following have to be considered, (1) a situation (like the one you refer) is referred to the prosecutor by a state party [which Tanzania is a state party of the ICC, having ratified the ICC Statute in 2002], (2) a situation is referred to the court by the United Nations Security Council acting under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, and (3) an initiation by the prosecutor him/herself(proprio motu) after determining that the crimes committed under the jurisdiction of the ICC (as explained under (i) above).

According to the facts you have laid out, I would submit that the ICC at the moment would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try any of the persons alleged to be involved on the commission of these crimes. These crimes could be tried by Tanzania national courts.

Sungi

what about War crimes?

 

[omarilyas]

Kama kuna ushahidi kuwa silaha hizo zinazodaiwa kupitia Tanzania zimetumika katika kutekeleza mpango kabambe wa makosa ya kivita, crimes against humanity na mauaji ya kimbari na kama serikali ya Tanzania ilihusika na sio watumishi wake ambao walifanya kamahayo kwa manufaa binafsi basi hilo linaweza kupelekwa ICC.

Hata hivyo ujue kuwa mpaka kesi hiyo ifike huko ni lazima kupatikane ridhaa ya UN ambapo Tanzania ina nafasi nzuri kidiplomasia na isiyo na uadui na wengi haswa mataifa makubwa katika security council.

Kinachowezekana ni kufanya "naming and shaming politics" ambazo zinaweza zikawa sawa in a matter of principles lakini zisisaidie nchi na zaidi zikawa zinawaongezea leverage mataifa makubwa na yale ya jirani yetu yenye maslahi yao nchini katika kushinikiza maamuzi ya ndani ambayo mwisho wa siku ni wao wa nje wenye kufaidika zaidi ya Tanzania na mtanzania unayedhani kuwa unampigania...

omarilyas

 

[AmaniGK]

What has all these got to do with you and what is your role in arms trafficking to question this? Au umbeya tu?

Yaani kama kuna mtu anayeniboa kusoma post zake humu JF ni wewe!yaani kwako hamna kizuri.....wewe bana!!

 

[Rev. Kishoka]

ukifanya hivyo itabidi uwainvolve akina Crown Agents and this trail goes all the way to the top of the British establishment

hilo haliwezekani

Ndio maana Mark Thatcher pamoja na ushahidi kuwepo kuwa alikuwa on the way kupindua sERIKALI YA equatorial gUINEA LAKINI LEO YUKO FREE ANA KATA MBUGA MITAANI TUU

GT,

You are right on the money on this brother. I wonder if we surrendered HATI ya UHURU to have our debts cancelled in exchange to EO and company doing business in Tanzania!

Sort of Koloni la kujitakia!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Kama kuna ushahidi kuwa silaha hizo zinazodaiwa kupitia Tanzania zimetumika katika kutekeleza mpango kabambe wa makosa ya kivita, crimes against humanity na mauaji ya kimbari na kama serikali ya Tanzania ilihusika na sio watumishi wake ambao walifanya kamahayo kwa manufaa binafsi basi hilo linaweza kupelekwa ICC.

sidhani kama kuna ushahidi kule Congo wa silaha zilizopitia TZ kuanzia wakati wa Kabila hadi leo hii kutumika katika vita; labda zilitumika kwenye harusi na sherehe za familia!

 

[zomba]

Yaani kama kuna mtu anayeniboa kusoma post zake humu JF ni wewe!yaani kwako hamna kizuri.....wewe bana!!

naku boa halafu unazisoma, unanshangaza!

 

[zomba]

This is a parti Pris.......an opinion formed beforehand without adequate evidence.

Too childish to deal with.

Exactly! can you ever be as innocent and as honest as a child? No way.

Simple honest question, inawaumiza roho? kama si umbeya ni nini? na anae kasirika ndio yeye huyo!

 

[Bluray]

Deleted,.

 

[Mkandara]

jamani eeeh!
ICC knows everything about Arm trafficking ktk Ukanda wa ziwa Nyanza..wakati ile sinema ya Darwin's Nightmare imetoka niliwahi kusoma report inayozungumzia kwa kirefu biashara hiyo, hivyo haiwezekani kuwa ni jambo geni kwao.. hata kidogo..

 

[Indume Yene]

Mie nashangaa wamekazania Raisi wa Sudan akamatwe, oooh International Arrest Waranty imetoka huyu jamaa akamatwe, lakini wanashindwa kutambua huyu Mrussia na wengineo wamesababisha madhara ambayo yanafanana na ya Darfur. si kwamba namtetea Omar Bashir, not at all but justice has to be served kwa pande zote.

 

[Shadow]

Tanzania has no fanctional judicial system. If at all we depend on the present judicial system to deal with the culprits involved in these arms trafficiking to Great Lakes Conflict area we are simply wasting our time.

If MMKJ is able to initiate the communication with ICC and provide the available evidence we may hope The ICC may take to task these People just like they are doing for Charles Taylor. Or at least the arest warrant as they have done for Sudanese Al Bashir.

Keep on MKKJ

Mkuu PJ,

Just on point of information: Charles Taylor, the then President of Liberia is being prosecuted by the Special Court for Sierra Leone [a Hybrid of the International Court]. Charles Taylor was transferred to The Hague for security reasons and note that the trial is conducted by said court i.e. SCSL.

 

[Shadow]

My take is that if you can link individuals and their role in promoting ongoing wars within the Great Lakes Region and convince the ICC prosecutor to initiate the investigation then that will be a great step. Below is Article 25 on our individual may be implicated with the war. Secondly, if you could convince Congo DRC to use its referral rights as provided for by the ICC to investigate the role of Tanzanian individuals in the trafficking of small arms which are used to fuel crime against humanity within DRC Borders. I see that as a viable move if Kabila will have the guts to do so.

Article 25
Individual criminal responsibility
1. The Court shall have jurisdiction over natural persons pursuant to this Statute.
2. A person who commits a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court shall be
individually responsible and liable for punishment in accordance with this Statute.
3. In accordance with this Statute, a person shall be criminally responsible and liable
for punishment for a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court if that person:
(a) Commits such a crime, whether as an individual, jointly with another or
through another person, regardless of whether that other person is
criminally responsible;
(b) Orders, solicits or induces the commission of such a crime which in fact
occurs or is attempted;
(c) For the purpose of facilitating the commission of such a crime, aids, abets
or otherwise assists in its commission or its attempted commission,
including providing the means for its commission;
18
Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
(d) In any other way contributes to the commission or attempted commission
of such a crime by a group of persons acting with a common purpose. Such
contribution shall be intentional and shall either:
(i) Be made with the aim of furthering the criminal activity or criminal
purpose of the group, where such activity or purpose involves the
commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court; or
(ii) Be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit
the crime;
(e) In respect of the crime of genocide, directly and publicly incites others to
commit genocide;
(f) Attempts to commit such a crime by taking action that commences its
execution by means of a substantial step, but the crime does not occur
because of circumstances independent of the person's intentions.
However, a person who abandons the effort to commit the crime or
otherwise prevents the completion of the crime shall not be liable for
punishment under this Statute for the attempt to commit that crime if that
person completely and voluntarily gave up the criminal purpose.
4. No provision in this Statute relating to individual criminal responsibility shall
affect the responsibility of States under international law.


Part II Jurisdiction, admissibility and applicable law
Article 5
Crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court
1. The jurisdiction of the Court shall be limited to the most serious crimes of concern
to the international community as a whole. The Court has jurisdiction in
accordance with this Statute with respect to the following crimes:
(a) The crime of genocide;
(b) Crimes against humanity;
(c) War crimes;
(d) The crime of aggression.
2. The Court shall exercise jurisdiction over the crime of aggression once a provision
is adopted in accordance with articles 121 and 123 defining the crime and setting
out the conditions under which the Court shall exercise jurisdiction with respect to
this crime. Such a provision shall be consistent with the relevant provisions of the
Charter of the United Nations.

 

[Zitto]

Knowing what we know about arms trafficking to the conflict zones of Great Lakes region of Africa and based on the reality that most of the wars there revolve around the fight for the control of the natural resources; and knowing that Tanzania has been used (and probably still is) as a conduit of these illicit arms and based on information that some senior officials have enabled it (by omission, commission or both) should the International Criminal Court be involved in initiating investigation on the role Tanzania and some of its officials have or are still playing in the illicit arms trafficking.

Bearing in mind two of great lakes arms traffickers and merceneries have a chilling connection to Tanzania? I mean Bout, Dr. Kambale and Tony?

Should we involve ICC or can we handle our own business?

If yes, why so?

If no, why not?

I need help making my mind on some "communications" I have initiated.

MwanaKijiji,

Kwanza mimi siamini katika ICC kama imaprtial court. Ninaiona ICC kama 'tool' ya ukoloni na ubeberu.
Hata hivyo, watu wengi sana wamekufa kutokana na silaha zilizoenda Kongo zimeua watu wengi sana na hivyo haki ni lazima itendeke. Makampuni makubwa ya Magharibi yamehusika kuendesha vita hivi ili kupata utajiri wa madini. Kongo imekuwa na laana hii toka Lumumba auwawe na ndio maana nimejiapiza siku nitakayomwona Obama macho kwa macho nitamwambia awaombe radhi waafrika kwa CIA na Oval Office kuamuru Lumumba auwawe.
ICC haitaeleza ukweli wa ushiriki wa makampuni ya magharibi katika Kongo. ICC itashughulika na wakosaji weusi tu. Tuangalie utaratibu wa kuendesha kesi hizi wenyewe bila kuathiri 'image' ya Taifa letu. Ninarudia bila kuathiri 'image' ya Tanzania maana tukiiharibu kuijenga itachukua nusu karne tena. Naomba nieleweke! Tushughulikie wakosaji hawa kama individuals - tusikosee kuchafua Tanzania, itatugharimu!