Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons | JamiiForums | The Home of Great Thinkers

Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by BAK, May 24, 2010.

  1. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Messages: 70,609
    Likes Received: 82,182
    Trophy Points: 280
    Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons

    Exclusive: Secret apartheid-era papers give first official evidence of Israeli nuclear weapons
    The secret military agreement signed by Shimon Peres, now president of Israel, and P W Botha of South Africa. Photograph: Guardian

    Secret South African documents reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state's possession of nuclear weapons.
    The "top secret" minutes of meetings between senior officials from the two countries in 1975 show that South Africa's defence minister, PW Botha, asked for the warheads and Shimon Peres, then Israel's defence minister and now its president, responded by offering them "in three sizes". The two men also signed a broad-ranging agreement governing military ties between the two countries that included a clause declaring that "the very existence of this agreement" was to remain secret.

    The documents, uncovered by an American academic, Sasha Polakow-Suransky, in research for a book on the close relationship between the two countries, provide evidence that Israel has nuclear weapons despite its policy of "ambiguity" in neither confirming nor denying their existence.

    The Israeli authorities tried to stop South Africa's post-apartheid government declassifying the documents at Polakow-Suransky's request and the revelations will be an embarrassment, particularly as this week's nuclear non-proliferation talks in New York focus on the Middle East.

    They will also undermine Israel's attempts to suggest that, if it has nuclear weapons, it is a "responsible" power that would not misuse them, whereas countries such as Iran cannot be trusted.
    South African documents show that the apartheid-era military wanted the missiles as a deterrent and for potential strikes against neighbouring states.

    The documents show both sides met on 31 March 1975. Polakow-Suransky writes in his book published in the US this week, The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's secret alliance with apartheid South Africa. At the talks Israeli officials "formally offered to sell South Africa some of the nuclear-capable Jericho missiles in its arsenal".

    Among those attending the meeting was the South African military chief of staff, Lieutenant General RF Armstrong. He immediately drew up a memo in which he laid out the benefits of South Africa obtaining the Jericho missiles but only if they were fitted with nuclear weapons.

    The memo, marked "top secret" and dated the same day as the meeting with the Israelis, has previously been revealed but its context was not fully understood because it was not known to be directly linked to the Israeli offer on the same day and that it was the basis for a direct request to Israel. In it, Armstrong writes: "In considering the merits of a weapon system such as the one being offered, certain assumptions have been made: a) That the missiles will be armed with nuclear warheads manufactured in RSA (Republic of South Africa) or acquired elsewhere."

    But South Africa was years from being able to build atomic weapons. A little more than two months later, on 4 June, Peres and Botha met in Zurich. By then the Jericho project had the codename Chalet.

    The top secret minutes of the meeting record that: "Minister Botha expressed interest in a limited number of units of Chalet subject to the correct payload being available." The document then records: "Minister Peres said the correct payload was available in three sizes. Minister Botha expressed his appreciation and said that he would ask for advice." The "three sizes" are believed to refer to the conventional, chemical and nuclear weapons.

    The use of a euphemism, the "correct payload", reflects Israeli sensitivity over the nuclear issue and would not have been used had it been referring to conventional weapons. It can also only have meant nuclear warheads as Armstrong's memorandum makes clear South Africa was interested in the Jericho missiles solely as a means of delivering nuclear weapons.
    In addition, the only payload the South Africans would have needed to obtain from Israel was nuclear. The South Africans were capable of putting together other warheads.

    Botha did not go ahead with the deal in part because of the cost. In addition, any deal would have to have had final approval by Israel's prime minister and it is uncertain it would have been forthcoming.
    South Africa eventually built its own nuclear bombs, albeit possibly with Israeli assistance. But the collaboration on military technology only grew over the following years. South Africa also provided much of the yellowcake uranium that Israel required to develop its weapons.

    The documents confirm accounts by a former South African naval commander, Dieter Gerhardt – jailed in 1983 for spying for the Soviet Union. After his release with the collapse of apartheid, Gerhardt said there was an agreement between Israel and South Africa called Chalet which involved an offer by the Jewish state to arm eight Jericho missiles with "special warheads". Gerhardt said these were atomic bombs. But until now there has been no documentary evidence of the offer.

    Some weeks before Peres made his offer of nuclear warheads to Botha, the two defence ministers signed a covert agreement governing the military alliance known as Secment. It was so secret that it included a denial of its own existence: "It is hereby expressly agreed that the very existence of this agreement... shall be secret and shall not be disclosed by either party".
    The agreement also said that neither party could unilaterally renounce it.

    The existence of Israel's nuclear weapons programme was revealed by Mordechai Vanunu to the Sunday Times in 1986. He provided photographs taken inside the Dimona nuclear site and gave detailed descriptions of the processes involved in producing part of the nuclear material but provided no written documentation.
    Documents seized by Iranian students from the US embassy in Tehran after the 1979 revolution revealed the Shah expressed an interest to Israel in developing nuclear arms. But the South African documents offer confirmation Israel was in a position to arm Jericho missiles with nuclear warheads.

    Israel pressured the present South African government not to declassify documents obtained by Polakow-Suransky. "The Israeli defence ministry tried to block my access to the Secment agreement on the grounds it was sensitive material, especially the signature and the date," he said. "The South Africans didn't seem to care; they blacked out a few lines and handed it over to me. The ANC government is not so worried about protecting the dirty laundry of the apartheid regime's old allies."
  2. Mpeni sifa Yesu

    Mpeni sifa Yesu JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: May 23, 2010
    Messages: 649
    Likes Received: 9
    Trophy Points: 0
    vyovyote itakavyokuwa, vyovyte itakavyoeleweka, vyovyote watakavyotema chuki, vyovyote israel ilivyowahikufanya au inavyofanya, conclusion yangu ni MUNGU IBARIKI ISRAEL, Amina!
  3. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: May 5, 2006
    Messages: 11,484
    Likes Received: 165
    Trophy Points: 160
    And these are the same bastards who are harping on Iran having a nuclear devise? They went to bed with the apartheid devil and today any African with any intelligence can say God bless Israel?
  4. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Messages: 70,609
    Likes Received: 82,182
    Trophy Points: 280
    Thank you! Jasusi.
  5. A

    Alpha JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Messages: 614
    Likes Received: 12
    Trophy Points: 35
    The collapse of apartheid and the advent of democracy in South Africa was regionally supported by a group of southern African states called the Frontline States. These were Angola, Botswana, Lesotho, Mozambique, Swaziland, Tanzania, Zambia and, from 1980, Zimbabwe.
  6. Che Guevara

    Che Guevara JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: May 22, 2009
    Messages: 1,178
    Likes Received: 25
    Trophy Points: 145
    Unafaa kuitwa 'Mpeni sifa Shetani'.
    Yesu alikuwa ni mtu Mwema na wa Amani, siyo kawa wauaji akina Ariel Sharon, Ehud Barak na Netanyahu.

    Israel inakalia maeneo ya watu wengine (Wapalestina) kwa mabavu kwa kusaidiwa na Marekani (ndiyo sababu ya Umoja wa Mataifa kushindwa kufanya lolote).
    Israel inamiliki silaha za nyuklia, lakini haifahywi lolote kutokana ka kulindwa na Marekani..
    Israel inadai ina haki ya kusambulia nchi yoyote wakati wowote inaotaka. Ndoyi maana imezivamia mara kadhaa nchi majirani zake kama Lebanon, na kuzipiga mabomu Syria na Iraq. Misri na Jordan zimemalizwa na Marekani kwa niaba na faida ya Israel.

    Hakuna mtu yeyote mwenye akili timamu anayeweza kuitetea Israel wakati inaweza kuuza silaha zake za nyuklia kwa nchi nyingine (nuclear weapons proliferation) kama ilivyotaka kuuza kwa South Africa enzi za utawala wa makaburu na Iran enzi za kibaraka wa Marekani Shah.

    Kwa ukatili wao, wamethibitisha kuwa kweli ni wajukuu wa Shylock...
  7. Brutus

    Brutus Senior Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
    Messages: 174
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 33
    Mossad and BOSS( South African Bureau of State Security) were close allies back in the days. All Nuclear tests for both South Africa and israel were conducted along the coasts of indian ocean.. this is not a new revealation!
  8. p

    prosperity93 Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Sep 1, 2009
    Messages: 58
    Likes Received: 7
    Trophy Points: 0
    Nakuunga mkono sana tena sana
    Israel itabaki juu daima, hakuna nchi yoyote duniani inaweza kuingamiza kwa namna yeyote ile, hata USA wakiwa kinyume nao. Wabarikiwe wanaokubariki Jerusalem
  9. bona

    bona JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Nov 6, 2009
    Messages: 3,796
    Likes Received: 167
    Trophy Points: 160
    why nobody is NOT talking about syria and iran supplying hizbollah with scud missile? double standard? at least israel is targeting who hit them first and from the same location, what about those who just launch missile inside israel irrespective of where is gonna land in israel?
  10. Mpeni sifa Yesu

    Mpeni sifa Yesu JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: May 23, 2010
    Messages: 649
    Likes Received: 9
    Trophy Points: 0
    nafikiri wewe ndo unampa sifa shetani. ni hivi, si waisrael peke yao waliofanya kitu kama hicho. nchi za kiarabu kuanzia saudia, iran, syria nk zimefanya madudu mengi na ya ajabu. angalia walivyotoa silaha kwa hezbolah ili wawaprovoke israel for the sacrifice of innocent palestinians, angalia wanavyotoa silaha kwaajili ya hamas ili wawachokoze israel.

    to help you, si kila vita ni dhambi, hata kwenye Bible vita ilikuwepo, na ndo maana hata kwenye jeshi la JWTZ hapa kwetu, ndani ya jeshi kuna wanajeshi wengi tu watu wa Mungu na wanaua watu, so not every death ni kosa, kuna aina zingine za mauaji ambazo si kosa. one of them ni self defense ambayo waisrael wanafanya. Kama hamas na hezbolah wanarusha rocket watoto wa israel hata shule hawaendi, unategemea israel watanyamaza kimya tu, itabidi wajitetee na kuwaondoa hao wanaowashambulia. vita mbaya na kosa ni ile inayopiganwa kinyume na international humanitarian law (the law of war, on land na ile ya naval warfare)....kuna sheria zake na mtu anayeenda kinyume nazo ndo anafanya kosa. israel imeprove kwenda sambamba na sheria hizo na wanajeshi wake ambao hawajaenda sawasawa na sheria hizo wamekamatwa na kufunguliwa mashtaka kama kawaida kule israel.

    Hata hivyo, Mungu alishaahidi kuwa, atawasaidia waisrael kuwashinda maadui zao wote, that means by means of war, si kwa kukaa kwenye kocho. Nitakufahamisha kwamba, ile ardhi unayosema kuwa ni ya wapalestina, ni myth tu, si ya wapalestina. Palestine has never existen on earth, ni neno tu ambalo wafalme waliokolonise ile ardhi baada ya wayahudi kuchuukuliwa kwenda utumwani walibandika pale. wapalestina ni waarabu tu, waarabu wahamiaji, walihamia kule kwenye nchi....ndo maana hawana hata identity pale israel.

    kuna evidence nyingi, hadi leo hii sehemu ambazo waisrael walijenga makaburi, majengo yao, ukuta wa israel, makaburi ya kina Daudi, Absalom, na mitume wengine wengi bado yapo israel. WAPALESTINA AMBAO NI WAARABU WALIHAMIA KWENYE NCHI ILE BAADA YA WAYAHUDI KUCHUKULIWA UTUMWANI kwasababu walimfanya Mungu dhambi na Mungu akawapa adhabu hiyo. lakini hata hivyo Mungu aliahidi kuwa kuna siku atawakusanya toka pande zote za dunia na kuwarudisha kwenye nchi yao,na hilo lilitokea Tarehe 14 May 1948 wakati Taifa lilipozaliwa mara ya pili baada ya miaka mingi kuchukuliwa utumwani. kuna evidence zote zinazoonyesha kuwa ile ardhi ina belong to the Jews, LAKINI HAKUNA EVIDENCE HATA MOJA INAYOONYESHA KUWA ILE ARDHI NI YA WAPALESTINA. kama ipo ilete hapa. hata mji mkuu wa palestinian authority Bethlehem ndo hapo Yesu alizaliwa, lilikuwa ni jimbo la Israel. to tell you, hadi maeneo mengi ya Syria, Jordan yote na sehemu nyingi ni za israel, and it is just a matter of time, watayachukua miaka ya mbeleni.

    kama kuna evidence yoyote unayofikiri wapalestina wanamiliki ile ardhi, lete hapa. ni sawa na watusi na wahutu walivyokuja ukimbizini tz, wakirudi kule rwanda wakakuta nyumba waliyojenga wenyewe inakaliwa na mtu si kitu cha ajabu kumwambia yule mtu aondoke mwenye mali kafika. kuna ushahidi mwingi sana wa majengo na vitu vingi walivyojenga waisrael na wapalestina hawakuwa na kumbukumbu ya kuharibu ushahidi huo walipigwa upofu, hivyo hadi leo ndo vitu hivyo vinawafunga....MUNGU IBARIKI ISRAEL. mtoa mada ana ni ya kutaka sapoti ya watu wanaoilaani israel, anasambaza chuki kwa waisrael, nakushauri acha tu kwasababu unapoteza muda tu.
  11. Tumain

    Tumain JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Jun 28, 2009
    Messages: 3,158
    Likes Received: 9
    Trophy Points: 0
    utmbo na upupu nenda kasome kwanza kabla ya kujaza nafasi kwa utumbo wako wa kusifia mashetani waliolaaniwa na Muumba.
  12. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Messages: 2,508
    Likes Received: 24
    Trophy Points: 135
    ninyi ndo mmelaaniwa na muumba ndo maana mnahangaika hangaika tu hadi leo, mngekuwa hamjalaaniwa si mngewashinda hao wayahudi? lete mada,jamaa kaandika vizuri sana na anaeleweka kwasababu ameweka point, wewe haujaweka point yoyote badalayake unaongea chuki na matusi uliyofundishwa madrassa. hamuonegi aibu wakati mwingine, siku zote mnakuwa wagumu tu kuelewe, mmekimbia vitabuuuu? heee
  13. Mpeni sifa Yesu

    Mpeni sifa Yesu JF-Expert Member

    May 24, 2010
    Joined: May 23, 2010
    Messages: 649
    Likes Received: 9
    Trophy Points: 0
    punguza hasira, ongea point. hapa tuko uwanjani kila mtu anaona tunachoandika hivyo hata ukisema nimeandika utumbo, watu wengine watajaji pia, na mwisho wa siku unaweza kujiaibisha wewe mwenyewe usiyeongea kwa pointi. kitabu gani nikasome sasa mbona haujanielekeza ni kitabu gani nikasome?, napenda kwenda kusoma icho kitabu. najua sio Bible kwasababu kwenye Bible hakuna ilo. Pia, sijasifia mashetani, wayahudi sio wanadamu wazuri tu na wanapendwa na Mungu sana. ni nani wamelaaniwa na muumba? wayahudi wamebarikiwa na Mungu na imeandikwa wote watakao walaani kama wewe unavyofanya na Mungu atawalaani pia. tulia mkuu, punguza jazba, tujadili kwa point tutaeleweshana tu.