Prof Issa Shivji: The war between Russia and Ukraine

[longi mapexa]

Tumemwelewa na tunaondoka na dondoo zifuatazo;
Kwanza ni lazima tuanzie kwa mwandishi mwenyewe ambaye ni known Pan Africanist ambao misimamo yao ipo dhahiri kuhusu Western & Company.
(a) Pili kaelezea jinsi NATO ilivyojipanua kumzunguka Urusi, ( muhimu zaidi kuzuia Ujerumani kuwa mshirika wa karibu wa Urusi, hawa watatengeneza very powerful alliance ~ kutokana na huu mzozo, US kafanikiwa kutengeneza gape kati ya Ujerumani na Urusi tofauti na miaka iliyopita.
(b) Tatu ni kuwa, tunavyomshtumu Urusi kuivamia Ukraine hivyo hivyo tunapaswa kuilamu NATO kujisogeza karibu na Urusi. Hoja ya msingi hapa ni kuwa, hivi vita vinachangiwa kwa upande mmoja na Urusi kujaribu kujipanua nje ya mipaka yake ili kukabiliana na upanuzi wa NATO (Both NATO and Russia are wrong, kwa mtizamo wake).
(c) China anataka kuwa taifa kubwa kiuchumi na anaihitaji Ulaya ili kufanikiwa, hivyo haoni Mchina akijitumbukiza katika masuala ambayo yataathiri ndoto zake.

Hoja ambayo sijaikubali sana ni raisi wa Ukraine kukosa political legitimacy kwa kuwa raia wa Israeli. Katika nchi ambayo Sheria zake zinaruhusu uraia pacha sioni kama itaibua maswali kwa umma.

Hapa sasa nimeona hata umuhimu wa degree yangu.

 

[YEHODAYA]

Sijui hata kama unajua ulichoandika ,

Wako watakaojua nilichoandika hata wewe hujui nilichoandika achia wengine .Darasa ukifundisha si lazima ukifundisha kila mtu aelewe wako ataelewa na wako hawataelewa wewe mmoja ambaye hujielewa nilichoandika ! Sio kesi

 

[YEHODAYA]

Tofauti na Profesa wewe umechagua upande....mtazamo kama huo ndio unaosababisha ligi za mabishano.

Hata ku defend thesis ya degree huhitaji mabishano sembuse vita ya Russia na Ukraine?

 

[YEHODAYA]

I stand with Russia,

I stand with Ukraine

 

[longi mapexa]

Hata ku defend thesis ya degree huhitaji mabishano sembuse vita ya Russia na Ukraine?

Mkuu dhamira yangu ni kuonyesha namna ubishani juu ya vita hii kwa hapa Tanzania usivyokuwa huru....

Nmeona sehemu fulani udini ukiingizwa matusi na hoja zisizo chambulika.

Kwa profesa kaleta hoja na msimamo wake kaweka vyema.

 

[Kinkunti El Perdedo]

Msimamo wa Professor Shivji wa kinafiki eti yuko katikati

Ukraine ni nchi huru yaweza jiunga jumuiya yeyote bila kum mhusisha jirani.Yaweza alika majeshi yote yawe ya NATO kuweka vituo nchini kwake kwa ulinzi wake popote hata mpakani na Russia kinamuuma nini? Ohh in future waweza nishambulia .Wakushambulie kwa lipi?

Kenya viko vituo vya Marekani mbona hatujawahi bweka kushambulia Kenya kuwa in future waweza kushambulia?

Proffesa kaandika kinafiki.na unafiki uliojaa woga wa unknown asionekane yuko huku wala huku ohh yuko katikati mmmmm!!!!

Yeye kachagua side yake Kama wewe ulivyo take side upande wa Western na US shida yenu pro-Nato +us mnataka kila kitu watu waimbe mnavyo taka nyie akienda tofauti basi ni mnafiki.

 

[permanides]

Hapa sasa nimeona hata umuhimu wa degree yangu.

Kiaje mkuu?

 

[longi mapexa]

Kiaje mkuu?

Hoja zimepangiliwa vyema

 

[YEHODAYA]

Yeye kachagua side yake Kama wewe ulivyo take side upande wa Western na US shida yenu pro-Nato +us mnataka kila kitu watu waimbe mnavyo taka nyie akienda tofauti basi ni mnafiki.

Ok kila mtu yuko huru si tu kuchagua side lakini asiingioze mbwebwe za ohh me as academician of high level nasema !!! No no no aseme tu this is my personal stand on this issue it has nothing to do with my qualification , religious affiliation or whatever

Sababu in debate of anything mtu akimwambia mjinga unatakiwa umwambie ok huo ni muono wako nauheshimu kuna watu wananiona nina akili sababu before discussion ulisema hivyo kuwa ni personal perspective . Lakini ukisema as academicians highly renowned unataka nini ? Kufunga hoja based on your qualification or what? Hiyo haitakuwa debate you want to close the debate !! Wakati debate inatakiwa kuendelea!!

Tu debate kwa hoja tu who is who tuachane nazo kwenye debate

 

[Congo]

Msimamo wa Professor Shivji wa kinafiki eti yuko katikati

Ukraine ni nchi huru yaweza jiunga jumuiya yeyote bila kum mhusisha jirani.Yaweza alika majeshi yote yawe ya NATO kuweka vituo nchini kwake kwa ulinzi wake popote hata mpakani na Russia kinamuuma nini? Ohh in future waweza nishambulia .Wakushambulie kwa lipi?

Kenya viko vituo vya Marekani mbona hatujawahi bweka kushambulia Kenya kuwa in future waweza kushambulia?

Proffesa kaandika kinafiki.na unafiki uliojaa woga wa unknown asionekane yuko huku wala huku ohh yuko katikati mmmmm!!!!

Huujui ulimwengu wewe. Haya.
Bravo Shivji kwa kutuelemisha.

 

[YEHODAYA]

Huujui ulimwengu wewe. Haya.
Bravo Shivji kwa kutuelemisha.

Uko sahihi kwa mtizamo wako sio wangu nauheshimu mtizamo wako
Ndio demokrasia tembea kifua mbele kwa huo mmtizamo wako sababu siiwezi Ingia kichwani kwako kuubadilisha na mimi natembea kifua mbele na msimamo. Wangu sababu huna uwezo kuingia kichwani kwangu kuubadilisha

 

[Proved]

FIRST the political economic and geo-political context.

1. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, and per force the end of the bipolar world, the US enjoyed for almost two or more decades the status of a single superpower.

2. During this period it took the opportunity to consolidate its hegemony (militarily in particularl) in Europe by, among other things, stretching NATO eastwords and one after another swallowing up the former East European countries in its fold. Once again it began to surround the now Russian Federation with military bases and stationing its troops in these countries. This was meant not only to keep the Russians “out” but also to keep the Europeans “in”.

3. Meanwhile three things were happening:

(a) The US continued to wage wars on the the soil of Third World with impunity, unrestrained. In the process it destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and generally behaving as a bully and the world’s policeman. It has been trying hard to visit Iran, Venezuela and Bolivia with the same fate but so far without much success. It has succeeded in devastating the Sahel, Mali is on the brink of collapse and there is a war going on our doorstep in northern Mozambique to protect France’s and US oil Cos - Total and Exxon (I believe). Northern Mozambique is the poorest region while at the same time it has rich natural resources particularly natural gas. This is only a specific example of US/Western countries vision of Africa as their exclusive backyard for exploitation of natural resources etc. [where they come into conflict with China which is very aggressively pursuing its interest in natural resources. This is another new Cold War in the making on the continent.]

(b) While US was overstretching itself militarily thus affecting its economy, China in the East and Germany in Europe were consolidating themselves as economic powerhouses. (Remember Trump’s complaint that Europe - meaning mainly Germany and perhaps France - ought to share the burden of NATO!)

(c) After the economic devastation and looting of Russia in no small measure aided by the U.S., under Putin, Russia began to pick up the pieces. (Subjectively, Putin may also have superpower ambitions but he is no fool and realizes the central significance of China)

4. Intoxicated by its status as a single hegemon, US perhaps forgot the possibility of the rise of another superpower in the form of China. For a long time US tried to repeat the steategy it had used in the case of Soviet Union - to seduce China into an arms race. But China refused to bite the bait. It focused on economics and when the time was ripe and at the time of its own choosing China has surprised the world with its most modern and sophisticated military hardware. Yet there is no doubt that the US remains the superior military power which it uses to keep others in check.]

5. Throughout, US’s foreign policy in the Third World has been to propel disintegration of countries or reinforce it where it already existed. North-South Korea, North-South Vietnam (failed because the Vietnamese defeated the US - though over the last or so decade the US seems to be succeeding in getting Vietnam in its neo-liberal web), North-South Sudan, etc.

6. China’s foreign policy seems to be leaning towards a multipolar world in which Europe would also be a pole. This is exactly what the US has been trying to counter. It started with supporting Brexit (though Britain was an American Trojan horse in Europe anyway. )

7. Let us now fast forward to the current situation.

(a) With the end of Soviet Union the WArsaw Pact wound up but not NATO. In fact, NATO went on a spree of expansionism as we have seen clearly endangering Russia’s security. This is in spite of its commitments made multiple times that it will not expand NATO.

(b) The current policy of US in the Ukraine question seems to be two-fold: (I) to break a possible alliance between Germany and Russia and prevent the rise of a European pole in a multipolar world and (ii) to propel disintegration of Russia [a la Yugoslavia] Russia is the biggest and largest country in Europe (pop. 144 million). Compared to Russia all other states in Europe are Lilliputians.

8. The current war in Ukraine did not start with the Russian invasion. It started, I think, in 2004 since when the Ukrainian army has been waging a war on its Eastern side against Russian speaking population (one-third). In this war, US/Israel have been heavily involved in arming the Ukranian army and in nudging the Ukranian regime to continue its military adventure - clearly trying to provoke Russia. Some 14000 lives have been lost so far.

9. The democratically elected government of Ukraine under Yaruchenko was overthrown in a coup by the current president supported by the U.S. and Israel because of the former president’s pro-Russia stance.

9. The current President, strictly speaking, has no political legitimacy. (BTW the current President is also the citizen of Israel)

[BTW a short remark on another question. European spokespersons are fond of saying that Russia has brought the first European war and breached peace in Europe which reigned since WWII. Two points - while it is true that for the first time Europe had the longest period of peace in Europe since WWII, thanks to the Cold War and the bipolar world in which the two nuclear super wars held the balance, it is not true that there was similar peace in the rest of the world. While the Cold War (and peace) reigned in Europe, these powers waged proxy hot wars all over the Third World beginning with the Korean War.

Second, soon after the end of the Cold War it was the US and its allies who waged a war in Europe bombing the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia into smithereens. To day Yugoslavia does not exist - instead we have six republics, all of them aligned to US/NATO. ]

Now coming to the question at hand - the invasion of Ukraine.

10. First let me make it very clear to avoid misunderstanding. In principle, I don’t support war but I am not a pacifist. Out of necessity an oppressed nation or a country may have to take up arms to protect itself and/or liberate itself.
Second, we all know that in any war including this one it is the people who suffer - it is heart breaking when you watch on your TV screens the sufferings, the killings and maiming of people. So I am unreservedly on the side of the Ukranian people.
11. … …. …. ….

12. My position: if you must condemn the Russian invasion then, in my view, you should in the same breath and in equal measure condemn NATO and its overlord the US and the current regime in Ukraine to bring on the war on the people of Ukraine because -

(a) NATO stubbornly refused to discuss legitimate security concerns of Russia;
(b) for breaching various agreements including the Minsk accords;

(c) for arming and nudging Ukrainian regime to wage a war on its own people in Eastern Ukraine;

(d) for supporting the regime and almost tempting it to become a member of NATOby dangling the carrot of security and aid knowing fully well that that could provoke Russia.

I, as an independent intellectual who is always on the side of the ordinary people, can and must take that stand. [It is, in my view l, a poor argument that I have to choose one or the other. Either/or propositions may be the only options for opportunist politicians, but not for intellectuals of integrity who are supposed to have a broader and longer view of the phenomenon at hand.]

As a footnote, in this particular situation I would broadly agree with the Chinese position but much more with the Cuban position. While supporting the principle of sovereignty and territorial integrity, bring it out in broad daylight the nefarious role of Western countries in breaching this very principle all over the world and in this case enticing Russia to do the same.

I have expressed my views frankly and honestly because I believe [we as intellectuals have to appreciate fully the geo-political situation of the world in relation to our continent and our country is [this is absolutely crucial.] In this context: Do we realize, for instance, the gravity of the situation in Northern Mozambique which has the potential of leading to the disintegration of that country and roping us into an armed conflict from which it would be very difficult to extricate. I think we need to discuss that rather than playing ostrich. Anyway for another day)
Kila la kheri
Issa
27/02/2022

Uchambuzi mzuri sana huu....

Nimejifunza mengi sana.

 

[Eng. Zezudu]

Ngoja ni copy uzi, niupeleke kwenye kiswahili

 

[ruaharuaha]

Article ya Prof Shivji inafikirisha sana kwa upande wetu TZ hasa kuhusu Msumbiji na interest za USA na France kwenye gas.

Kwamba Msumbiji inaweza kuwa na mgogoro (civil war) kwa muda mrefu mwisho wa siku kugawanyika.

Tumejipanga vipi kukabiliana na hii changamoto ikitokea.

 

[YEHODAYA]

Article ya Prof Shivji inafikirisha sana kwa upande wetu TZ hasa kuhusu Msumbiji na interest za USA na France kwenye gas.

Kwamba Msumbiji inaweza kuwa na mgogoro (civil war) kwa muda mrefu mwisho wa siku kugawanyika.

Tumejipanga vipi kukabiliana na hii changamoto ikitokea.

Haelewi Msumbiji maraisi tulishaamua kuweka watanzania ili mpaka wetu na Msumbiji kuwa salama

Raisi wa sasa wa Msumbiji mtanzania kwao Kurasini kabomolewa hadi nyumba yake pale keko ufundi na fidia kalipwa vizuri

Ana uraia wa nchi mbili Msumbiji na Tanzania

 

[Naby Keita]

Wanafunga sababu ni zao wao ndio wanalipia gharama za uendeshaji sio Russia

Russia lofa pesa hana za kulipia media kimataifa anaandandia za west kama kidume kweli si aanzishe zake kupitia mi satellite zake
Media zake kazi yake ilikuwa kudandia lift tu za network za Magharibi!!

Sasa udandiaji wamemwambia koma wewe si unajifanya mtu mzima hatukupi lift tena media zako

Lift kwani walikua wanawapa hela za kulipia hizo media?

 

[Rwaz]

Msimamo wa Professor Shivji wa kinafiki eti yuko katikati

Ukraine ni nchi huru yaweza jiunga jumuiya yeyote bila kum mhusisha jirani.Yaweza alika majeshi yote yawe ya NATO kuweka vituo nchini kwake kwa ulinzi wake popote hata mpakani na Russia kinamuuma nini? Ohh in future waweza nishambulia .Wakushambulie kwa lipi?

Kenya viko vituo vya Marekani mbona hatujawahi bweka kushambulia Kenya kuwa in future waweza kushambulia?

Proffesa kaandika kinafiki.na unafiki uliojaa woga wa unknown asionekane yuko huku wala huku ohh yuko katikati mmmmm!!!!

Mdau hebu kwanza jitoe kwenye box la kudhan russia ni nchi kwa ukraine kama Kenya kwa Tanzania.
Kuna nchi ni superpowers. Ikiwemo russia. Maslahi yake yanavuka mipaka ya russia yenyewe. Lakin maslahi ya Tz yanaishia kobero na horohoro

 

[permanides]

Hoja zimepangiliwa vyema

Poa poa mkuu.

 

[thuwainize]

Tumemwelewa na tunaondoka na dondoo zifuatazo;
Kwanza ni lazima tuanzie kwa mwandishi mwenyewe ambaye ni known Pan Africanist ambao misimamo yao ipo dhahiri kuhusu Western & Company.
(a) Pili kaelezea jinsi NATO ilivyojipanua kumzunguka Urusi, ( muhimu zaidi kuzuia Ujerumani kuwa mshirika wa karibu wa Urusi, hawa watatengeneza very powerful alliance ~ kutokana na huu mzozo, US kafanikiwa kutengeneza gape kati ya Ujerumani na Urusi tofauti na miaka iliyopita.
(b) Tatu ni kuwa, tunavyomshtumu Urusi kuivamia Ukraine hivyo hivyo tunapaswa kuilamu NATO kujisogeza karibu na Urusi. Hoja ya msingi hapa ni kuwa, hivi vita vinachangiwa kwa upande mmoja na Urusi kujaribu kujipanua nje ya mipaka yake ili kukabiliana na upanuzi wa NATO (Both NATO and Russia are wrong, kwa mtizamo wake).
(c) China anataka kuwa taifa kubwa kiuchumi na anaihitaji Ulaya ili kufanikiwa, hivyo haoni Mchina akijitumbukiza katika masuala ambayo yataathiri ndoto zake.

Hoja ambayo sijaikubali sana ni raisi wa Ukraine kukosa political legitimacy kwa kuwa raia wa Israeli. Katika nchi ambayo Sheria zake zinaruhusu uraia pacha sioni kama itaibua maswali kwa umma.

Issa Shivji hajawahi ipenda wala ikubali Israel kwa hiyo si ajabu kuwa na msimamo huo huyo ni pro palestine kindakindaki

 

[Venus Star]

FIRST the political economic and geo-political context.



1. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, and per force the end of the bipolar world, the US enjoyed for almost two or more decades the status of a single superpower.



2. During this period it took the opportunity to consolidate its hegemony (militarily in particularl) in Europe by, among other things, stretching NATO eastwords and one after another swallowing up the former East European countries in its fold. Once again it began to surround the now Russian Federation with military bases and stationing its troops in these countries. This was meant not only to keep the Russians “out” but also to keep the Europeans “in”.



3. Meanwhile three things were happening:



(a) The US continued to wage wars on the the soil of Third World with impunity, unrestrained. In the process it destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and generally behaving as a bully and the world’s policeman. It has been trying hard to visit Iran, Venezuela and Bolivia with the same fate but so far without much success. It has succeeded in devastating the Sahel, Mali is on the brink of collapse and there is a war going on our doorstep in northern Mozambique to protect France’s and US oil Cos - Total and Exxon (I believe). Northern Mozambique is the poorest region while at the same time it has rich natural resources particularly natural gas. This is only a specific example of US/Western countries vision of Africa as their exclusive backyard for exploitation of natural resources etc. [where they come into conflict with China which is very aggressively pursuing its interest in natural resources. This is another new Cold War in the making on the continent.]



(b) While US was overstretching itself militarily thus affecting its economy, China in the East and Germany in Europe were consolidating themselves as economic powerhouses. (Remember Trump’s complaint that Europe - meaning mainly Germany and perhaps France - ought to share the burden of NATO!)



(c) After the economic devastation and looting of Russia in no small measure aided by the U.S., under Putin, Russia began to pick up the pieces. (Subjectively, Putin may also have superpower ambitions but he is no fool and realizes the central significance of China)



4. Intoxicated by its status as a single hegemon, US perhaps forgot the possibility of the rise of another superpower in the form of China. For a long time US tried to repeat the steategy it had used in the case of Soviet Union - to seduce China into an arms race. But China refused to bite the bait. It focused on economics and when the time was ripe and at the time of its own choosing China has surprised the world with its most modern and sophisticated military hardware. Yet there is no doubt that the US remains the superior military power which it uses to keep others in check.]



5. Throughout, US’s foreign policy in the Third World has been to propel disintegration of countries or reinforce it where it already existed. North-South Korea, North-South Vietnam (failed because the Vietnamese defeated the US - though over the last or so decade the US seems to be succeeding in getting Vietnam in its neo-liberal web), North-South Sudan, etc.



6. China’s foreign policy seems to be leaning towards a multipolar world in which Europe would also be a pole. This is exactly what the US has been trying to counter. It started with supporting Brexit (though Britain was an American Trojan horse in Europe anyway. )



7. Let us now fast forward to the current situation.



(a) With the end of Soviet Union the WArsaw Pact wound up but not NATO. In fact, NATO went on a spree of expansionism as we have seen clearly endangering Russia’s security. This is in spite of its commitments made multiple times that it will not expand NATO.



(b) The current policy of US in the Ukraine question seems to be two-fold: (I) to break a possible alliance between Germany and Russia and prevent the rise of a European pole in a multipolar world and (ii) to propel disintegration of Russia [a la Yugoslavia] Russia is the biggest and largest country in Europe (pop. 144 million). Compared to Russia all other states in Europe are Lilliputians.



8. The current war in Ukraine did not start with the Russian invasion. It started, I think, in 2004 since when the Ukrainian army has been waging a war on its Eastern side against Russian speaking population (one-third). In this war, US/Israel have been heavily involved in arming the Ukranian army and in nudging the Ukranian regime to continue its military adventure - clearly trying to provoke Russia. Some 14000 lives have been lost so far.



9. The democratically elected government of Ukraine under Yaruchenko was overthrown in a coup by the current president supported by the U.S. and Israel because of the former president’s pro-Russia stance.



9. The current President, strictly speaking, has no political legitimacy. (BTW the current President is also the citizen of Israel)



[BTW a short remark on another question. European spokespersons are fond of saying that Russia has brought the first European war and breached peace in Europe which reigned since WWII. Two points - while it is true that for the first time Europe had the longest period of peace in Europe since WWII, thanks to the Cold War and the bipolar world in which the two nuclear super wars held the balance, it is not true that there was similar peace in the rest of the world. While the Cold War (and peace) reigned in Europe, these powers waged proxy hot wars all over the Third World beginning with the Korean War.



Second, soon after the end of the Cold War it was the US and its allies who waged a war in Europe bombing the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia into smithereens. To day Yugoslavia does not exist - instead we have six republics, all of them aligned to US/NATO. ]



Now coming to the question at hand - the invasion of Ukraine.



10. First let me make it very clear to avoid misunderstanding. In principle, I don’t support war but I am not a pacifist. Out of necessity an oppressed nation or a country may have to take up arms to protect itself and/or liberate itself.

Second, we all know that in any war including this one it is the people who suffer - it is heart breaking when you watch on your TV screens the sufferings, the killings and maiming of people. So I am unreservedly on the side of the Ukranian people.

11. … …. …. ….



12. My position: if you must condemn the Russian invasion then, in my view, you should in the same breath and in equal measure condemn NATO and its overlord the US and the current regime in Ukraine to bring on the war on the people of Ukraine because -



(a) NATO stubbornly refused to discuss legitimate security concerns of Russia;

(b) for breaching various agreements including the Minsk accords;



(c) for arming and nudging Ukrainian regime to wage a war on its own people in Eastern Ukraine;



(d) for supporting the regime and almost tempting it to become a member of NATOby dangling the carrot of security and aid knowing fully well that that could provoke Russia.



I, as an independent intellectual who is always on the side of the ordinary people, can and must take that stand. [It is, in my view l, a poor argument that I have to choose one or the other. Either/or propositions may be the only options for opportunist politicians, but not for intellectuals of integrity who are supposed to have a broader and longer view of the phenomenon at hand.]



As a footnote, in this particular situation I would broadly agree with the Chinese position but much more with the Cuban position. While supporting the principle of sovereignty and territorial integrity, bring it out in broad daylight the nefarious role of Western countries in breaching this very principle all over the world and in this case enticing Russia to do the same.



I have expressed my views frankly and honestly because I believe [we as intellectuals have to appreciate fully the geo-political situation of the world in relation to our continent and our country is [this is absolutely crucial.] In this context: Do we realize, for instance, the gravity of the situation in Northern Mozambique which has the potential of leading to the disintegration of that country and roping us into an armed conflict from which it would be very difficult to extricate. I think we need to discuss that rather than playing ostrich. Anyway for another day)

Kila la kheri

Issa

27/02/2022

Hata ku defend thesis ya degree huhitaji mabishano sembuse vita ya Russia na Ukraine?

Mzee tulikuwa wote kupambania chama kumbe mwenzetu unashabikia mabepari!?