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Pinda:Mpaka wa Tanzania na Malawi una utata

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Ochu, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. Ochu

    Ochu JF-Expert Member

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    hili tatizo ni la siku nyingi...mbona halitatuliwi? mara mlima kilimanjaro nao uko Kenya
     
  2. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]
    Wanapopakana na Msumbiji mpaka unapita katikati. Kwetu, ziwa lote lao!
     
  3. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #3
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    hawa nao wana matatizo!! utata umeanza tangu enzi za Banda! na huko huko Bungeni wamejadili miaka nenda rudi.
     
  4. Ochu

    Ochu JF-Expert Member

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    tatizo hata ziwa nyasa hawalitambui...wao wanajua kuwa linaitwa ziwa Malawi
     
  5. Regia Mtema

    Regia Mtema R I P

    #5
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    Pinda naye..inamaana siku zote hizi hayuko informed?kazi kweli kweli tunaenda mbele na kurudi nyuma.
     
  6. Lambardi

    Lambardi JF-Expert Member

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    Labda naoo wameona jeshi lao limekuwa wanataka watu[pime ubavu maana timu yao ya taifa....imeshakomaa sasa....suala la mpaka lina utata mkubwa hata Kyela kuna mto ambao unahama kila siku.....mara Malawi mara unarudi tena huku kwetu..................
     
  7. Anyisile Obheli

    Anyisile Obheli JF-Expert Member

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    sasa ziwa la nini? si wapewe tu wamalawi
     
  8. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa nini tusijiunge nao tuwe nchi moja tuipe jina Tanzalawi?
     
  9. Gelange Vidunda

    Gelange Vidunda JF-Expert Member

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    Sheria za kimataifa mpaka kwa kwenye maji kawaida unapita 12 kilometers from the land (kama inawezekana) au katikati ya hayo maji. Inasemekana Nyerere aliwahi waambia hao akina Kamuzu kuwa kama mpaka upo kandokando ya ziwa Nyasa basi wayazuie maji yao kugusa nchi yake! Sarcastic statement showing the absurdity of the Malawian claim.

    Watu wote wa Mbamba Bay, Liuli, Matema Beach, Manda, etc wakiingia tuu kwenye maji wamevuka mpaka! Absurd, if you ask me.
     
  10. L

    Lugombo Member

    #10
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    Lakini kule kwetu Kyela na kule kwa wajukuu wa Mzee Mwanakijiji kule Katumba, watu wanalitumia hilo ziwa miaka na miaka bila ya matatizo yoyote.

    Sisi tunavua mbasa, mbelele na magege bila matatizo yoyote. Badala ya kuongelea utata wa mpaka ambao haumsumbui mwananchi yeyote, labda wangeongelea uhaba wa samaki kwenye hilo ziwa.
     
  11. M

    MWANALUGALI JF-Expert Member

    #11
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    Wewe ni mmoja wao na tunawatafuta watu kama nyinyi mnaopumua hewa yetu halafu mnaikandya nchi yetu.Sisi watanganyika ni wapole sana, ndiyo maana tunachezewa hata na wanzanzibar!!!!!
     
  12. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #12
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    Ni kweli wengine hata familia zimegawanywa na mto Songwe; mwaka huu wako Malawi, mwaka ujao wako Tanzania! it make no sense
     
  13. M

    MgonjwaUkimwi JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Hili swala la mipaka inayotenganisha nchi za Afrika ni suala la kufikirika mno unapotembelea maeneo ya mipaka hiyo. Ni suala la kisiasa lisiloangalia masilahi na mahusiano ya wakazi wa mipakani. Nadhani suala la mipaka katika maeneo husika ni suala la kiutawala kuliko maisha ya kila siku ya watu wanaoishi mipakani.

    Wakazi wa Mbambabay wanalitumia ziwa nyasa kama mali yao na hakuna japo siku moja wamesumbuliwa na serikali ya malawi. Wanavua samaki kila siku, wanatumia maji kwa kufulia nk. Wamalawi wanajuwa hili fika na kama ilivyo tamaduni za waafrika wengine wamalawi na watu wa Mbambabay wanatambua kwamba mali asili kama ziwa, mito na bahari ni "public good" ambayo haimilikiwi na kiumbe chochote. Na dhana hii ina imarika pale watumiaji wanapokuwa na mahusiano mazuri, kama ilivyo kwa wamalawi na watu wa Mbambabay ambapo wote wanaongea lugha moja huku wakitenganishwa kwa mapana wa ziwa.

    Kinachonishangaza ni pale serikali ya Tz inapojaribu kufanya siasa zitenganishe mahusiano ya watu wa nchi mbili wanaoishi kama watu wa nchi moja. Huu ni upumbavu. Hata kama ziwa ni la wamalawi, nini wananchi wa Mbambabay wanakosa leo hii? I tell you mjadala huu unawaweka watu wa Mbambabay mahala pabaya kuliko wamalawi, kwasababu there is a chance kwamba ziwa likawa la wamalawi na ikiamuriwa hivyo watu wa Mbambabay watakuwa ndio victims....victims was mjadala wa kisiasa. This is bull shit!

    Kyela na Mbambabay wananufaika sana na ziwa hili, hususan uvuvi na usafirishaji; na wananufaika bila hata serikali kuwasaidia inavyotakiwa ili maisha yao yaboreshwe kwa matumizi ya ziwa hili. Badala yake mijitu kama Pinda na viongozi wengine wanalilia kupata mpaka ndani ya ziwa, wakati sasa ziwa linatumika bila mpaka na bado hakuna jitihada za kumnufaisha mtanzania. Upumbavu huu tuliufanya with regards to mount kilimanjaro; while Kenya was busy developing economic infrastructure to reap the benefits of her close proximit to mount kilimanjaro, Tanzania (the true land of kilimanjaro) was busy asking Kenyans to stop decieving the world that mout Kilimanjaro belongs to Kenya!! The results? Kenya gets all the economic benefits and Tanzania gets nothing but a pride. I foolishly thought we had learned our lesson....!! I thought wrong.

    All I can say is that the discussion about the borders of lake nyansa doesnt do any good to Tanzanians living along the lake, if anything it jeopardizes their daily bread. Pinda please drop this discussion....now.
     
  14. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Hii ramani feki, kuna ramani sahihi za Tanzania ambazo zinaonyesha kuwa mpaka upo katikati. Boti za doria za Tanzania zinapatrol mpaka hadi katikati ya ziwa Nyasa (sio ziwa Malawi kama baadhi wanavyotaka tuamini)! Sasa Pinda anataka kuchemsha na kuanza mazungumzo ambayo mwisho wa siku atashindwa, maana ni bingwa wa kutamka maneno kabla ya kufikiria, ooh Zanzibar si nchi, mara tunataka Muungano wa Serikali moja...Ataongeza mgogoro badala ya kuutatua. Aaache watu waendelee kuvua mbasa kama kawaida!
     
  15. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Unafahamu umuhimu wa ziwa hili katika biashara? Unafahamu kwamba Ziwa wakipewa Wamalawi ukiingiza miguu majini utakuwa umeingia Malawi? does that seem natural?

    Kwa nini mpaka wa Mozambique umeenda katikati ya ziwa na mpaka wa Tanzania uanzie kwenye beach? Mipaka mingine ya Tanzania katika ziwa Tanganyika na Victoria imekaaje? imeanzia kwenye beach ya maziwa haya au imeanzia kati kati ya maziwa?
     
  16. M

    MgonjwaUkimwi JF-Expert Member

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    Kiranga, maswali yako yasikutatize ingawa yana mantiki. Michoro ya mipaka haina fomular....kwa hiyo upo uwezekano kwamba mpaka unaoonyesha Tz kuwa nje ya ziwa ni sahihi.
     
  17. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    Miaka ya sabini na mwanzaoni mwa themanini Marehemu Dr. Ngwazi Kamuzu Banda Kaijulikana kama "President wa Muyaya (Rais wa Maisha kwa Kimalawi)" alianzanisha chochochoko ya mpaka kama lilivyokuwa kwa upande wa Kagera na Iddi Amiri Dada Fidel Marshal miaka hiyo hiyo. AU KWA SASA NA WAKENYA KUHUSU KILIMANJARO, NA KULE BURUNDI KUHUSU MPAKA NDANI YA ZIWA TANGANYIKA!

    Dr Ngwazi BANDA ALIWAHI KULETA NGEGE YA KIJESHI MPAKA SONGEA AKIDAI KUTAKA KUKOMBOA SEHEMU YA NCHI YAKE (WANGONI, WAMATENGO, WAMPOTO, WA NDENGEULE, WANYASA, WAKISI, WAPANGWA, WANYAKYUSA, NA MAKABILA MENGINE YA MAENEO YANAYOPAKANA NA ZIWA NYASA NI SEHEMU YA HUO MZOZO).

    UKIENDA KULE KYELA (KASUMULU) WANYAKYUSA WAPO MALAWI NA TZ NA KULE KIPINDI CHA NJAA UPANDE WA MALAWI, KUKU WANAVUKA KULA TZ NA KURUDI KULALA MALAWI , AU UKIWENDA CHIWINDI (MBAMBABAY) WANYASA WAPO TZ NA MSUMBIJI, NA WAPO WALE AMBAO KWAO NI LIKOMA, MZUZU, NKATA BAY NK.

    SINA SHAKA NDUGU ZETU "BAHAYA" NSHOMILE PIA WAPO WENGI KULE UGANDA KAMA WAMASAI WALIVYO WENGI KENYA. UKIENDA NTWARA AU KANDO KANDO YA MTO RUVUMA (VIJIJI VYA MUHUKURU NA MITOMONI NK) UNAKUTANA NA WAMAKONDE NA WAYAO WATANZANIA WENYE ASILI YA MSUMBIJI AU WALE AMBAO GIZA LIKINGIA TU WAPO TZ KWA WAJOMBA ZAO NA JUA LIKICHOMOZA WAMEREJEA MSUMBUJI (NA NDIO MAANA HATA URAIA WA ALITYEWAHI KUWA RAIS WA JAMHURI YETU BADO UNATIA SHAKA MPAKA KESHO!).

    MIAKA HIYO HIYO YA THEMANINI, KULIIBUKA MZOZO WA MPAKA KATI YA TANZANIA NA MSUMBIJI KWA UPANDE WA KASKAZINI YA MSUMBIJI (MAENEO YA CHIWINDI NA MITOMONI) WAKATI ULE KULIPOKUWA NA VITA YA FRELIMO NA RENAMO....HUKO MIPAKANA KULIWEKWA VIKOSI VYA JESHI LA ULINZI WA TZ LAKINI SASA HAVIPO TENA KWA KUA TZ NI NCHI KUBWA INA ENEO KUBWA LA KUJIDAI, EBU TURUHUSU BASU HAWA WANYASA WAWE RAIA WA MALAWI KWANI HATA LUGHA YAO NI KIMALAWI TUPU NA ENZI ZILE HATA MWALIMU ALIWACHUKULIA KAMA WANATABIA ZA HUKO NA NDO MANA ALIHITILAFIANA NA MAREHEMU KAMBONA, AKINA LIFA CHIPAKA NK.
     
  18. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Na kuna uwezekano wa mpaka kuwepo ndani (katikati) ya ziwa, right?
     
  19. M

    MgonjwaUkimwi JF-Expert Member

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    You are 100% correct. Na ndio maana nikasema kwenye posting yangu ya awali kwamba, mjadala huu haumfai Mtanzania anayeishi kando ya ziwa kwasababu sasa ananufaika na ziwa hili na mjadala huu unaweza kumfanya hasinufaike.
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Nyerere alishamwambia Banda kwa nini anaishia kuchukua ziwa tu, si atuchukue wote nchi nzima iwe chini ya Malawi.

    Banda mwenyewe kusikia hivyo akanywea.

    Vita vya wajerumani na waingereza 1914 (WWI) vinamuathiri mama yangu Afrika mpaka leo.

    Ukiachilia mbali hili la ziwa kuna lile lingine la mto Songwe ambao unajulikana kama mpaka, ku shift kulingana na mvua.

    Ona hapa http://www.afrol.com/articles/12447
    Kazi ipo.
     
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