Ni kweli tumesahau aliyotufanyia Gaddafi 1972- 1979 mpaka tuandamane kumtetea? | JamiiForums | The Home of Great Thinkers

Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Ni kweli tumesahau aliyotufanyia Gaddafi 1972- 1979 mpaka tuandamane kumtetea?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Ng'wanangwa, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Aug 28, 2010
    Messages: 10,174
    Likes Received: 892
    Trophy Points: 280
    Hii nimeikopi kutoka jukwaa la "Hoja na Habari Mchanganyiko".

    Nimeona Pale si Mahala Pake.

    Inakosa Wachangiaji.

    Lakini hii thread ina hadhi ya Nyota 5.

    WanaJF Tuchangie:

    Imeandikwa na TITAN

    In 1972 and 1979, Gaddafi sent Libyan troops to defend Idi Amin when we attacked him. I remember a Libyan Tupolev 22 bomber trying to bomb us in Mbarara in 1979. The bomb ended up in Nyarubanga because the pilots were scared. They could not come close to bomb properly. We had already shot-down many Amin MIGs using surface-to-air missiles.
    The Tanzanian brothers and sisters were doing much of this fighting. Many Libyan militias were captured and repatriated to Libya by Tanzania. This was a big mistake by Gaddafi and a direct aggression against the people of Uganda and East Africa.

    je!! nikweli watanzania tunanini cha kumtetea Gaddafi, kwa lipi kubwa alilo tufanyia mpaka tuandamane?
  2. tanga kwetu

    tanga kwetu JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: May 12, 2010
    Messages: 2,163
    Likes Received: 1,122
    Trophy Points: 280
    ....maskini hao unaowauliza humu hawamo!!! toa tangazo la ubwabwa kwa nyama ya ngamia na tende hakika watajaa then waeleze hili suala!! muda huu wamelala msikitini!!!
  3. TITAN

    TITAN JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Dec 13, 2010
    Messages: 309
    Likes Received: 0
    Trophy Points: 0
    Jamani sizugumzii udini bali ni ali alisi ilivyo lwa gaddafi naomba usome apo chini:
    Backing Idi Amin: Idi Amin came to power in 1971 with the support of Britain and Israel because they thought he was uneducated enough to be used by them. Amin, however, turned against his sponsors when they refused to sell him guns to fight Tanzania. Unfortunately, Qaddafi, without first getting enough information about Uganda, jumped in to support Idi Amin. He did this because Amin was a "Moslem" and Uganda was a "Moslem country," where Moslems were being "oppressed" by Christians. Amin killed a lot of people extra-judicially, and Qaddafi was identified with these mistakes.
    Jamani tupo apo kunaumuimu wa kuwa na gaddafi bega kwa bega?
  4. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Aug 28, 2010
    Messages: 10,174
    Likes Received: 892
    Trophy Points: 280
    au kwa kuwa kagera haiko ukanda wa pweza?

    haithaminiwi na mamwinyi?
  5. Makindi N

    Makindi N JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Mar 14, 2008
    Messages: 1,068
    Likes Received: 12
    Trophy Points: 135
    President Yoweri K. Museveni's article on Libya

    By the time Muammar Gaddaffi came to power in 1969, I was a third year university student at Dar-es-Salaam. We welcomed him because he was in the tradition of Col. Gamal Abdul Nasser of Egypt who had a nationalist and pan-Arabist position.

    Soon, however, problems cropped up with Col. Gaddafi as far as Uganda and Black Africa were concerned:

    1.Idi Amin came to power with the support of Britain and Israel because they thought he was uneducated enough to be used by them. Amin, however, turned against his sponsors when they refused to sell him guns to fight Tanzania. Unfortunately, Col. Muammar Gaddafi, without getting enough information about Uganda, jumped in to support Idi Amin. This was because Amin was a ‘Moslem' and Uganda was a ‘Moslem country' where Moslems were being ‘oppressed' by Christians. Amin killed a lot of people extra-judicially and Gaddafi was identified with these mistakes. In 1972 and 1979, Gaddafi sent Libyan troops to defend Idi Amin when we attacked him. I remember a Libyan Tupolev 22 bomber trying to bomb us in Mbarara in 1979. The bomb ended up in Nyarubanga because the pilots were scared. They could not come close to bomb properly. We had already shot-down many Amin MIGs using surface-to-air missiles. The Tanzanian brothers and sisters were doing much of this fighting. Many Libyan militias were captured and repatriated to Libya by Tanzania. This was a big mistake by Gaddafi and a direct aggression against the people of Uganda and East Africa.

    2.The second big mistake by Gaddafi was his position vis-à-vis the African Union (AU) Continental Government "now". Since 1999, he has been pushing this position. Black people are always polite. They, normally, do not want to offend other people. This is called: ‘obufura' in Runyankore, mwolo in Luo – handling, especially strangers, with care and respect. It seems some of the non-African cultures do not have ‘obufura'. You can witness a person talking to a mature person as if he/she is talking to a kindergarten child. "You should do this; you should do that; etc." We tried to politely point out to Col. Gaddafi that this was difficult in the short and medium term. We should, instead, aim at the Economic Community of Africa and, where possible, also aim at Regional Federations. Col. Gaddafi would not relent. He would not respect the rules of the AU. Something that has been covered by previous meetings would be resurrected by Gaddafi. He would ‘overrule' a decision taken by all other African Heads of State. Some of us were forced to come out and oppose his wrong position and, working with others, we repeatedly defeated his illogical position.

    3.The third mistake has been the tendency by Col. Gaddafi to interfere in the internal affairs of many African countries using the little money Libya has compared to those countries. One blatant example was his involvement with cultural leaders of Black Africa – kings, chiefs, etc. Since the political leaders of Africa had refused to back his project of an African Government, Gaddafi, incredibly, thought that he could by-pass them and work with these kings to implement his wishes. I warned Gaddafi in Addis Ababa that action would be taken against any Ugandan king that involved himself in politics because it was against our Constitution. I moved a motion in Addis Ababa to expunge from the records of the AU all references to kings (cultural leaders) who had made speeches in our forum because they had been invited there illegally by Col. Gaddafi.

    4.The fourth big mistake was by most of the Arab leaders, including Gaddafi to some extent. This was in connection with the long suffering people of Southern Sudan. Many of the Arab leaders either supported or ignored the suffering of the Black people in that country. This unfairness always created tension and friction between us and the Arabs, including Gaddafi to some extent. However, I must salute H.E. Gaddafi and H.E. Hosni Mubarak for travelling to Khartoum just before the Referendum in Sudan and advised H.E. Bashir to respect the results of that exercise.

    5.Sometimes Gaddafi and other Middle Eastern radicals do not distance themselves sufficiently from terrorism even when they are fighting for a just cause. Terrorism is the use of indiscriminate violence – not distinguishing between military and non-military targets. The Middle Eastern radicals, quite different from the revolutionaries of Black Africa, seem to say that any means is acceptable as long as you are fighting the enemy. That is why they hijack planes, use assassinations, plant bombs in bars, etc. Why bomb bars? People who go to bars are normally merry-makers, not politically minded people. We were together with the Arabs in the anti-colonial struggle. The Black African liberation movements, however, developed differently from the Arab ones. Where we used arms, we fought soldiers or sabotaged infrastructure but never targeted non-combatants. These indiscriminate methods tend to isolate the struggles of the Middle East and the Arab world. It would be good if the radicals in these areas could streamline their work methods in this area of using violence indiscriminately.

    These five points above are some of the negative points in connection to Col. Gaddafi as far as Uganda's patriots have been concerned over the years. These positions of Col. Gaddafi have been unfortunate and unnecessary.

    Nevertheless, Gaddafi has also had many positive points objectively speaking. These positive points have been in favour of Africa, Libya and the Third World. I will deal with them point by point:

    1.Col. Gaddafi has been having an independent foreign policy and, of course, also independent internal policies. I am not able to understand the position of Western countries which appear to resent independent-minded leaders and seem to prefer puppets. Puppets are not good for any country. Most of the countries that have transitioned from Third World to First World status since 1945 have had independent-minded leaders: South Korea (Park Chung-hee), Singapore (Lee Kuan Yew), China People's Republic (Mao Tse Tung, Chou Enlai, Deng Xiaoping, Marshal Yang Shangkun, Li Peng, Jiang Zemin, Hu Jing Tao, etc), Malaysia (Dr. Mahthir Mohamad), Brazil (Lula Da Silva), Iran (the Ayatollahs), etc. Between the First World War and the Second World War, the Soviet Union transitioned into an Industrial country propelled by the dictatorial but independent-minded Joseph Stalin. In Africa we have benefited from a number of independent-minded leaders: Col. Nasser of Egypt, Mwalimu Nyerere of Tanzania, Samora Machel of Mozambique, etc. That is how Southern Africa was liberated. That is how we got rid of Idi Amin. The stopping of genocide in Rwanda and the overthrow of Mobutu, etc., were as a result of efforts of independent-minded African leaders. Muammar Gaddafi, whatever his faults, is a true nationalist. I prefer nationalists to puppets of foreign interests. Where have the puppets caused the transformation of countries? I need some assistance with information on this from those who are familiar with puppetry. Therefore, the independent-minded Gaddafi had some positive contribution to L
    ibya, I believe, as well as Africa and the Third World. I will take one little example. At the time we were fighting the criminal dictatorships here in Uganda, we had a problem arising of a complication caused by our failure to capture enough guns at Kabamba on the 6th of February, 1981. Gaddafi gave us a small consignment of 96 rifles, 100 anti-tank mines, etc., that was very useful. He did not consult Washington or Moscow before he did this. This was good for Libya, for Africa and for the Middle East. We should also remember as part of that independent-mindedness he expelled British and American military bases from Libya, etc.

    2.Before Gaddafi came to power in 1969, a barrel of oil was 40 American cents. He launched a campaign to withhold Arab oil unless the West paid more for it. I think the price went up to US$ 20 per barrel. When the Arab-Israel war of 1973 broke out, the barrel of oil went to US$ 40. I am, therefore, surprised to hear that many oil producers in the world, including the Gulf countries, do not appreciate the historical role played by Gaddafi on this issue. The huge wealth many of these oil producers are enjoying was, at least in part, due to Gaddafi's efforts. The Western countries have continued to develop in spite of paying more for oil. It, therefore, means that the pre-Gaddafi oil situation was characterized by super exploitation in favour of the Western countries.

    3.I have never taken time to investigate socio-economic conditions within Libya. When I was last there, I could see good roads even from the air. From the TV pictures, you can even see the rebels zooming up and down in pick-up vehicles on very good roads accompanied by Western journalists. Who built these good roads? Who built the oil refineries in Brega and those other places where the fighting has been taking place recently? Were these facilities built during the time of the king and his American as well as British allies or were they built by Gaddafi? In Tunisia and Egypt, some youths immolated (burnt) themselves because they had failed to get jobs. Are the Libyans without jobs also? If so, why, then, are there hundreds of thousands of foreign workers? Is Libya's policy of providing so many jobs to Third World workers bad? Are all the children going to school in Libya? Was that the case in the past – before Gaddafi? Is the conflict in Libya economic or purely political? Possibly Libya could have transitioned more if they encouraged the private sector more. However, this is something the Libyans are better placed to judge. As it is, Libya is a middle income country with GDP standing at US$ 89.03 billion. This is about the same as the GDP of South Africa at the time Mandela took over leadership in 1994 and it about 155 times the current size of GDP of Spain.

    4.Gaddafi is one of the few secular leaders in the Arab world. He does not believe in Islamic fundamentalism that is why women have been able to go to school, to join the Army, etc. This is a positive point on Gaddafi's side.

    Coming to the present crisis, therefore, we need to point out some issues:

    1.The first issue is to distinguish between demonstrations and insurrections. Peaceful demonstrations should not be fired on with live bullets. Of course, even peaceful demonstrations should coordinate with the Police to ensure that they do not interfere with the rights of other citizens. When rioters are, however, attacking Police stations and Army barracks with the aim of taking power, then, they are no longer demonstrators; they are insurrectionists. They will have to be treated as such. A responsible Government would have to use reasonable force to neutralize them. Of course, the ideal responsible Government should also be an elected one by the people at periodic intervals. If there is a doubt about the legitimacy of a Government and the people decide to launch an insurrection, that should be the decision of the internal forces. It should not be for external forces to arrogate themselves that role, often, they do not have enough knowledge to decide rightly. Excessive external involvement always brings terrible distortions. Why should external forces involve themselves? That is a vote of no confidence in the people themselves. A legitimate internal insurrection, if that is the strategy chosen by the leaders of that effort, can succeed. The Shah of Iran was defeated by an internal insurrection; the Russian Revolution in 1917 was an internal insurrection; the Revolution in Zanzibar in 1964 was an internal insurrection; the changes in Ukraine, Georgia, etc., all were internal insurrections. It should be for the leaders of the Resistance in that country to decide their strategy, not for foreigners to sponsor insurrection groups in sovereign countries. I am totally allergic to foreign, political and military involvement in sovereign countries, especially the African countries. If foreign intervention is good, then, African countries should be the most prosperous countries in the world because we have had the greatest dosages of that: slave trade, colonialism, neo-colonialism, imperialism, etc. All those foreign imposed phenomena have, however, been disastrous. It is only recently that Africa is beginning to come up partly because of rejecting external meddling. External meddling and the acquiescence by Africans into that meddling have been responsible for the stagnation in Africa. The wrong definition of priorities in many of the African countries is, in many cases, imposed by external groups. Failure to prioritize infrastructure, for instance, especially energy, is, in part, due to some of these pressures. Instead, consumption is promoted. I have witnessed this wrong definition of priorities even here in Uganda. External interests linked up, for instance, with internal bogus groups to oppose energy projects for false reasons. How will an economy develop without energy? Quislings and their external backers do not care about all this.

    2.If you promote foreign backed insurrections in small countries like Libya, what will you do with the big ones like China which has got a different system from the Western systems? Are you going to impose a no-fly-zone over China in case of some internal insurrections as happened in Tiananmen Square, in Tibet or in Urumqi?

    3.The Western countries always use double standards. In Libya, they are very eager to impose a no-fly-zone. In Bahrain and other areas where there are pro-Western regimes, they turn a blind eye to the very same conditions or even worse conditions. We have been appealing to the UN to impose a no-fly-zone over Somalia so as to impede the free movement of terrorists, linked to Al-Qaeda, that killed Americans on September 11th, killed Ugandans last July and have caused so much damage to the Somalis, without success. Why? Are there no human beings in Somalia similar to the ones in Benghazi? Or is it because Somalia does not have oil which is not fully controlled by the western oil companies on account of Gaddafi's nationalist posture?

    4.The Western countries are always very prompt in commenting on every problem in the Third World – Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, etc. Yet, some of these very countries were the ones impeding growth in those countries. There was a military coup d'état that slowly became a Revolution in backward Egypt in 1952. The new leader, Nasser, had ambition to cause transformation in Egypt. He wanted to build a dam not only to generate electricity but also to help with the ancient irrigation system of Egypt. He was denied money by the West because they did not believe that Egyptians needed electricity. Nasser decided to raise that money by nationalizing the Suez Canal. He was attacked by Israel, France and Britain. To be fair to the USA, President Eisenhower opposed that aggression that time. Of course, there was also the firm stand of the Soviet Union at that time. How much electricity was this dam supposed to produce? Just 2000 mgws for a country like Egypt!! What moral right, then, do such people have to comment on the affairs of these countries?

    5.Another negative point is going to arise out of the by now habit of the Western countries over-using their superiority in technology to impose war on less developed societies without impeachable logic. This will be the igniting of an arms race in the world. The actions of the Western countries in Iraq and now Libya are emphasizing that might is "right." I am quite sure that many countries that are able will scale up their military research and in a few decades we may have a more armed world. This weapons science is not magic. A small country like Israel is now a super power in terms of military technology. Yet 60 years ago, Israel had to buy second-hand fouga magister planes from France. There are many countries that can become small Israels if this trend of overusing military means by the Western countries continues.

    6.All this notwithstanding, Col. Gaddafi should be ready to sit down with the opposition, through the mediation of the AU, with the opposition cluster of groups which now includes individuals well known to us – Ambassador Abdalla, Dr. Zubeda, etc. I know Gaddafi has his system of elected committees that end up in a National People's Conference. Actually Gaddafi thinks this is superior to our multi-party systems.

    Of course, I have never had time to know how truly competitive this system is. Anyway, even if it is competitive, there is now, apparently, a significant number of Libyans that think that there is a problem in Libya in terms of governance. Since there has not been internationally observed elections in Libya, not even by the AU, we cannot know what is correct and what is wrong. Therefore, a dialogue is the correct way forward.

    7.The AU mission could not get to Libya because the Western countries started bombing Libya the day before they were supposed to arrive. However, the mission will continue. My opinion is that, in addition, to what the AU mission is doing, it may be important to call an extra-ordinary Summit of the AU in Addis Ababa to discuss this grave situation.

    8.Regarding the Libyan opposition, I would feel embarrassed to be backed by Western war planes because quislings of foreign interests have never helped Africa. We have had a copious supply of them in the last 50 years – Mobutu, Houphouet Boigny, Kamuzu Banda, etc. The West made a lot of mistakes in Africa and in the Middle East in the past. Apart from the slave trade and colonialism, they participated in the killing of Lumumba, until recently, the only elected leader of Congo, the killing of Felix Moummie of Cameroon, Bartholomew Boganda of Central African Republic, the support for UNITA in Angola, the support for Idi Amin at the beginning of his regime, the counter-revolution in Iran in 1953, etc. Recently, there has been some improvement in the arrogant attitudes of some of these Western countries. Certainly, with Black Africa and, particularly, Uganda, the relations are good following their fair stand on the Black people of Southern Sudan. With the democratization of South Africa and the freedom of the Black people in Southern Sudan, the difference between the patriots of Uganda and the Western Governments had disappeared. Unfortunately, these rush actions on Libya are beginning to raise new problems. They should be resolved quickly.

    Therefore, if the Libyan opposition groups are patriots, they should fight their war by themselves and conduct their affairs by themselves. After all, they easily captured so much equipment from the Libyan Army, why do they need foreign military support? I only had 27 rifles. To be puppets is not good.

    9.The African members of the Security Council voted for this Resolution of the Security Council. This was contrary to what the Africa Peace and Security Council had decided in Addis Ababa recently. This is something that only the extra-ordinary summit can resolve.

    10.It was good that certain big countries in the Security Council abstained on this Resolution. These were: Russia, China, Brazil, India, etc. This shows that there are balanced forces in the world that will, with more consultations, evolve more correct positions.

    11.Being members of the UN, we are bound by the Resolution that was passed, however rush the process. Nevertheless, there is a mechanism for review. The Western countries, which are most active in these rush actions, should look at that route. It may be one way of extricating all of us from possible nasty complications. What if the Libyans loyal to Gaddafi decide to fight on? Using tanks and planes that are easily targeted by Mr. Sarkozy's planes is not the only way of fighting. Who will be responsible for such a protracted war? It is high time we did more careful thinking.

    Yoweri K. Museveni
    20th March 2011

    source: matukio-michuzi: President Yoweri K. Museveni's article on Libya
  6. Lutala

    Lutala JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Jun 17, 2010
    Messages: 845
    Likes Received: 18
    Trophy Points: 35
    Watanzania hatuna haiaja ya kumtetea Ghadafi kwa kuwa hana jema alilotendea Tanzania. Alitaka kutumaliza wakati wa vita ya Kagera - kwa k upande wangu dawa ya moto ni moto na hakuna haja ya walea tende na nyama ya ngamia kutetea hilo. Let him go - and he should go now
  7. K

    Kakalende JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Dec 1, 2006
    Messages: 3,259
    Likes Received: 33
    Trophy Points: 135
    Hatujasahau ya '79 lakini kumbuka baada ya vita ile tulisameheana na turajesheana uhusiano wa kibalozi. Kumbuka katika siasa za kimataifa hakuna rafiki au adui wa kudumu, .inategemea maslahi ya wakati huo.
  8. Utingo

    Utingo JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Dec 15, 2009
    Messages: 7,121
    Likes Received: 184
    Trophy Points: 160

    nashindwa kuelewa, wakati kuna wa-Libya wengi wanawalilia ndugu zao zaidi ya 5000 ambao hawajulikani walipo baada ya kukamatwa na vikosi maalum vya intelijensia na secret police vya gaddafi tangu alipoingia madarakani, eti kuna watanzania wanamtetea gaddafi.
  9. N

    NAHUJA JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Aug 1, 2007
    Messages: 15,025
    Likes Received: 15,594
    Trophy Points: 280
  10. haibreus

    haibreus JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Oct 1, 2009
    Messages: 296
    Likes Received: 66
    Trophy Points: 45
    Si vyema ukitoa comments zako uingize maswala ya Msikiti,na pia ufahamu kuwa walioandama si waislamu wote,mimi pia sijaungana mkono na walioandama kumuunga mkono Ghadafi,nadhani tunapaswa tu kuwaelemisha kuwa huyo wanaemuunga mkono ndie aliyeungana na idd Amini na kuuwa watanzania wengi wasio na vyema kuonyesha msimamo wako na chuki zako juu ya waislamu,juzi niliandika kuwa watanzania kuna baadhi wana chuki za kidini dhidi ya wengine na pia nikauliza je wewe mwenye chuki za kidini huna jamaa,Ndugu,au shemeji au marafiki ambao ni waislamu?si vyema tukabaguana kwani nyerere alifanya kazi kubwa kutuunganisha hadi tukafikia pahala tunaowana.kwa hiyo ninakuasa uache tabia yako ya chuki dhidi ya dini kwani utakuja kujikuta unapigana na ndugu zako wadamu!tupambane tuutoe utawala huu ambao unatudhalilisha watanzania.pia ukiangalia hata Nyerere kuna mistakes alifanya katika kuiingiza nchi katika vita ya Uganda na hatimae uchumi kuanguka na watu kupoteza maisha na mali zao.
    Angalizo:jitahidi sana ndugu yangu ,Mtz mwenzangu punguza jazba na uwaelemishe hao walioandamana kuwa hawakupaswa kufanya hivyo kwani wanaonekana hawajui Historia ya nchi yao vyema.Pia ujue wengi hawakubahatika kupata elimu kama wewe na sio kwa makusudi bali ni uwezo na kukosa miongozo tu.TANZANIA NI NCHI YETU SOTE, akiharibikiwa Muislamu ,Mkristo/Mpagani basi hatuna budi kushikamana na kuweka mambo sawa pamoja.TUPENDANE JAMANI!!Nilikuwa napita tu hapa
  11. K

    Kleptomaniacs Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Apr 23, 2008
    Messages: 86
    Likes Received: 0
    Trophy Points: 0
    Wa tz wepesi kusahau so sishangaii wao kuingia barabarani kuunga mkono chochote
  12. G

    Gathii Senior Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Messages: 164
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 35

    Mimi ni mkristo,
    Uliloandika lina maana kwangu na nina amini na kwa wengi pia.
    Mwandishi hajatumia njia nzuri ya kufikisha ujumbe wake,hakukuwa na siku zote hakuna haja ya kutumia lugha ya kashfa dhidi ya watu wenye imani tofauti na uliyonayo wewe.

    Ujumbe alioukusudia kuufikisha (kuwatahadharisha waliondamana kumuunga mkono Gaddafi kuwa walipaswa wakae chini na kujiuliza mengi kabla ya kufanya hivyo) ulikuwa mzuri lakini ametumia njia ambayo siyo nzuri.

    Binafsi siungi mkono uvamizi wa kijeshi uliofanywa na mataifa ya Magharibi dhidi ya Gadaffi,lakini pia simuungi mkono Gadaffi kwa style yake ya kuongoza Libya hata kama imefanikiwa kwa kiasi kikubwa kwenye farewell ya raia zake..kuna hao ambao wanapotezwa kimya kimya lakini kuna style ile ya kutaka kumuweka mtoto wake madarakani..

    Alipaswa kuondoka kwa kweli lakini njia inayotumika si sahihi kwani kuna watu wasio na hatia wanaoangamia pia,na ukweli ni kwamba tunafahamu Mataifa yale yanafanya vile kwa interest zao na si kwa mapenzi kwa Wa-Libya...Tujikumbushe tu yaliyotokea Rwanda na walishindwa kuingilia kati na kuokoa maisha ya wengi,walichofanya ni kubeba tu raia wao...UN ilikuwepo nayo ikashindwa kufanya lolote kwa kuwa siku zote ipo kusubiri kusikia Marekani inasema na inataka nini…Inasikitisha sana,na hapo ndipo inapokuwa mantiki yangu hakuna aliyeandamana mauaji yale ya Kimbari yalivyotokea na yalitugusa kwa njia moja au nyingine;Taifa lilibeba mzigo wa wakimbizi lakini pia ndugu zetu Watanzania wenzetu wa Mikoa ya Mipakana kama Kigoma walipatwa na athari za moja kwa moja kama vile wizi na ujambazi ambavyo viliongezwa na uwepo wa wakimbizi wale kwa wingi.Lakini hakuna mtu aliyesimama na kuandamana.
  13. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Aug 28, 2010
    Messages: 10,174
    Likes Received: 892
    Trophy Points: 280
    inamaana gadaf angevamia chalinze na kumshinda vita kungekuwa na sukukuu ya "mapinduzi ya chalinze" kama ilivyo "mapinduzi ya zanzibar"?

    ila kwa kuwa haikufanyika ukanda wa pweza hiyo sikukuu hakuna? mamweinyi hawaungi mkono? wamesahau? wanajaaali tu misikiti anayowajengea gadafi? hata raia wa libya wafe wote, ilo mradi anajenga misikiti yetu tunakuwa donti kea?
  14. Matola

    Matola JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Messages: 36,045
    Likes Received: 13,265
    Trophy Points: 280
    Kwanza si sahihi kusema neno Watanzania bali tumia neno Waislamu wa Tanzania, mtu makini hawezi kuandamana kumsuport gaidi. kwani gadafi huyuhuyu si ndio yule alifadhiri ugaidi wa kulipuwa ndege ile ya rockerbie?
  15. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Aug 28, 2010
    Messages: 10,174
    Likes Received: 892
    Trophy Points: 280
    kijana una kumbukumbu sana. Well done. nilishasema na tena na tena nasema. gadafi anapambana na mayahudi. hatoshinda kamwe. lokabii, magrahi, kulipuliwa mambomba ya mafuta ya BP kwengye rasi ya mexico, kufungwa kwa vituo vya BP kwenye nchi masikini kama Tanzania, kuanguka kwa chama cha labour huko uingereza, kufulia kisiasa kwa Gordoon Brown, orodha ni ndefu. .


    maghrahi, mlipuzi wa ndege ya PAN-Am Air kwenye anga ya Lokabiiii. Gaidi aliyesemekana angekufa baada ya miezi mi3 lakini mpaka leo yupo anakula ubwabwa.

    uingereza wanashiriki vita kwa libya si kwa maepenzi yao, ni adhabu wamepewa baada ya kufanya njama batili za kumuachia mmuuwaji wa lokabiii. wamepewa adhabu na mayahudi.

    viva Jerusalem. Viva Israel. viva Jews.

    God is with you always
  16. s

    saggy Senior Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Nov 12, 2008
    Messages: 153
    Likes Received: 3
    Trophy Points: 35
    Niliposikia kuna watu wanataka kuandamana kupinga mashambulizi ya Western dhidi yake tena Watanzania,tena Watanganyika!!! Machozi yalinitoka ....kwakuwa nilipoteza baba yangu kwenye Vita ya Uganda ya mwaka 1979 na Familia imeishi kwa taabu na dhiki kuu,na aliyemuua baba yangu ni moja ya wanajeshi wa Libya aliyekuwa amelala kwenye kundi la miili ya wanajeshi waliokufa na akamrushia marehemu mzee wetu bomu wakati ametoka nje ya kifaru na kupoteza maisha!!!

    Majeshi ya Gadafi yalikaribia na yalipelekea mauaji ya wanajeshi wetu wazalendo waliotoa maisha yao kuitetea nchi yetu ya Tanganyika,leo hii kuna watu wanathibutu kweli kumtetea huyu mtu?

    Huu ni UPUMBAVU na Upunguani wa akili,kutetea mtu aliyeshirikiana na adui zako kukuangamiza!
  17. Ngongo

    Ngongo JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Messages: 12,155
    Likes Received: 3,632
    Trophy Points: 280
    Ukiwalaumu baadhi ya waislamu wa Tanzania wanaomuunga mkono Gadaff ni kuwaonea bure.Kwanza kabla ya kutoa lawama lazima uangalie mambo ya msingi kubwa kuliko yote ni elimu ya waandamanaji.Je waandamanaji wanauelewa wa masuala ya kimataifa,wanajua nini kuhusu demokrasi,wanaufahamu wowote wa siasa za Middle East,wanajua kwamba gadaff katawala Libya miaka mingapi na alikuwa na mipango gani baada ya yeye kuondoka.Ukipata majibu ya maswali haya hakika utabaki kuwaonea huruma badala ya kuwashutumu.
  18. LeopoldByongje

    LeopoldByongje JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Messages: 373
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Suala analoliongelea H.E Mseveni ni la Msingi. Suala si Ghadafi wala Uisilamu wake bali ni njia ambayo Western countries wnaitumia kuingilia Uhuru wa Libya. Hapa Hatujali kama Ghadafi aliwahi kuitendea mabaya Tanzania au la. Tuangalie Misingi. Vyovyote vile Nchi za Magharibi wanatafuta kupora mali za libya mgogoni mwa vibaraka wao ambao wanaitwa wapinzani wa Ghadafi ambao Mseveni ametumia neno Puppet na Nyerere aliwaita vibaraka wa wakoloni. Baada ya Libya sijui itakuwa zamu ya nchi gani????/
  19. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Aug 28, 2010
    Messages: 10,174
    Likes Received: 892
    Trophy Points: 280
    la muhm kwao ni miskiti aliyowajengea tu
  20. a

    atina Member

    Mar 29, 2011
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Messages: 60
    Likes Received: 0
    Trophy Points: 0
    Pamoja na hayo, pia nasikia alitoa msaada wakati wa mafuriko ya Kilosa,,,