Msemo ninaouchukia

Kisura

JF-Expert Member
Jun 21, 2007
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One; Things happen for a cause of some sort.There is no doubt "everything happens for a reason".

Two; Like it, Hate it, Deny it or Avoiding taking charge of your actions, better yet, Ku-Beza (whatever the hell that means), "What Goes Around, comes Around", is a comeback, and that is a Fact My Friend!

How you handle the comeback, how you look at it, and/or deal with the consequences, is totally one's choice, but does not change fact that, sooner or later, the "comes around" it's going to catch up with you!
 

Kuhani

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Apr 2, 2008
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There is no doubt "everything happens for a reason".
Na mimi msemo huo nauchukia na ninaukataa milele.

Ndege ya JWTZ iliyoua watu leo ime happen for a reason? Ili iweje?

Ndo hayo mambo ya "mapenzi ya Mungu" ?

Anyway, msemo ninaouchukia mimi ni "Doctor Watson was right."
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
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Na mimi msemo huo nauchukia na ninaukataa milele.

Ndege ya JWTZ iliyoua watu leo ime happen for a reason? Ili iweje?

Ndo hayo mambo ya "mapenzi ya Mungu" ?

Anyway, msemo ninaouchukia mimi ni "Doctor Watson was right."
Point ya Kisura ni kuwa reason ipo, albeit siyo lazima iwe inaendana na justification ya msemaji. Inawezekana uzembe wa rubani, inawezekana ndege ilikuwa mbovu, inawezekana hali ya hewa.

Hakuna kitu kinachotokea bila sababu katika dunia hii.
 

Kisura

JF-Expert Member
Jun 21, 2007
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Na mimi msemo huo nauchukia na ninaukataa milele.

Ndege ya JWTZ iliyoua watu leo ime happen for a reason? Ili iweje?

Ndo hayo mambo ya "mapenzi ya Mungu" ?
Kuchukia is one thing, denying fact is another.

Ndege imeanguka, could be anything, so far ninafikiri ni mechanical fault, sina hakika nitasubiri report. At any rate, that would justify the "reason of some sort".

Mapenzi ya Mungu? Hayo ni yako, acha kumsingizia.
 

Quemu

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2007
986
1,225
One; Things happen for a cause of some sort.There is no doubt "everything happens for a reason".

Two; Like it, Hate it, Deny it or Avoiding taking charge of your actions, better yet, Ku-Beza (whatever the hell that means), "What Goes Around, comes Around", is a comeback, and that is a Fact My Friend!

How you handle the comeback, how you look at it, and/or deal with the consequences, is totally one's choice, but does not change fact that, sooner or later, the "comes around" it's going to catch up with you!
Kisura,
Ni kweli kila kitu unachosema. Lakini watu wengi wanatumia misemo hii vibaya (maoni yangu). Pengine wanasahau kuwa kila uamuzi/matendo yana matokeo yake.

Wengi wetu utumia msemo "what goes around comes around" kama laana kwa mtu aliyekukosea. Ni kama vile tuna wish ardhi ipasuke na kummeza huyo mtu. In short, wengi utumia huu msemo katika hali ya kutaka kumtisha yule aliyekukosea....

As for "everything happens for a reason", kwa nini majority ya watu hutumia huu msemo kana kwamba the reason is supposed ot be in the future only? What if the reason has actually passed? How could you tell?
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
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Wengi wetu utumia msemo "what goes around comes around" kama laana kwa mtu aliyekukosea. Ni kama vile tuna wish ardhi ipasuke na kummeza huyo mtu. In short, wengi utumia huu msemo katika hali ya kutaka kumtisha yule aliyekukosea..
Hiyo ni perfect usage.Mtu akikufanyia mabaya ukasema "What goes around comes around" ni sawa.Maana yake what you do to others will be done to you, karma if you like, every action has an equal and opposite reaction if you like etc etc.
 

Kuhani

JF-Expert Member
Apr 2, 2008
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Kuchukia is one thing, denying fact is another.

Ndege imeanguka, could be anything, so far ninafikiri ni mechanical fault, sina hakika nitasubiri report. At any rate, that would justify the "reason of some sort".
Kisura,

Msemo wa "everything happens for a reason" nadhani huuelewi.

Hauongelei sababu iliyopelekea kutokea kwa tukio, (kwa mfano ubovu wa injini umesababisha kuanguka kwa ndege). Isipokuwa inaongelea kitu kitakachokuja kutokea mbele kutokana na kuanguka kwa ndege. Na mara nyingi inamaanisha kuna zuri zitakalo tokea kutokana na hili tukio ambalo kwa sasa ni baya.

Kwa mfano mtu anaweza kusema, kuanzia sasa nchi itakuwa makini kutonunua ndege za Vithlani na Serikali itahakikisha inainua viwango vya usalama vya vyombo vya usafirishaji. Kwa hiyo watu wataacha kufa kwenye ajali za zinazo zuilika, iwe angani, majini na barabarani. Yani, kuna benefit ya tukio lolote hata kama ni baya.

Hiyo ndio maana ya "everything happens for a reason," nadharia ambayo sikubaliani nayo kwa sababu unaweza kujaribu kuitumia kuhalalisha tukio lolote duniani, ikiwemo uzembe!
 

Quemu

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2007
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Hiyo ni perfect usage.Mtu akikufanyia mabaya ukasema "What goes around comes around" ni sawa.Maana yake what you do to others will be done to you, karma if you like, every action has an equal and opposite reaction if you like etc etc.
Pundit,
Maana ya huo msemo inaeleweka kabisa...

Anyway, watu wengi u-fall for that saying....

Not me! Hata siku moja sitajakaa na kuwaza kwamba series of misfortunes zinazonitokea sasa hivi zinasababishwa na ukosefu niliomfanyia xyz mwaka jana. To me, downs (kama ups) ni sehemu ya maisha, na sio "laana" aliyonirushia xyz wakati nimemkosea siku za nyuma.

Kwa hiyo, when I hear people say "what goes around comes around" to me (not that I face the saying a lot...lol), I just laugh my butt off....coz I ain't tripping for it!!!
 

Kuhani

JF-Expert Member
Apr 2, 2008
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Ndege imeanguka, could be anything, so far ninafikiri ni mechanical fault, sina hakika nitasubiri report.
By the way, hiyo argument sidhani kama ina make sense.

Nini kinakufanya ufikiri ni mechanical failure kama huna clue yoyote na unasubiri ripoti?

Inawezekana ni human error, inawezekana ki-Helikopta cha watu wanne kilipandisha watu 6, inawezekana hali ya hewa haikuruhusu waende angani wao wakaenda, inawezekana Helicopter ilipita muda wake wa inspection na haikubadilishwa oil. Inaweza kuwa lolote lile.

Samahani kutoka nje ya mada kidogo, lakini ni katika kujadili kwa nini tunachukia misemo tunayoichukia.
 

Quemu

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2007
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Kisura,

Msemo wa "everything happens for a reason" nadhani huuelewi.

Hauongelei sababu iliyopelekea kutokea kwa tukio, (kwa mfano ubovu wa injini umesababisha kuanguka kwa ndege). Isipokuwa inaongelea kitu kitakachokuja kutokea mbele kutokana na kuanguka kwa ndege. Na mara nyingi inamaanisha kuna zuri zitakalo tokea kutokana na hili tukio ambalo kwa sasa ni baya.

Kwa mfano mtu anaweza kusema, kuanzia sasa nchi itakuwa makini kutonunua ndege za Vithlani na Serikali itahakikisha inainua viwango vya usalama vya vyombo vya usafirishaji. Kwa hiyo watu wataacha kufa kwenye ajali za zinazo zuilika, iwe angani, majini na barabarani. Yani, kuna benefit ya tukio lolote hata kama ni baya.

Hiyo ndio maana ya "everything happens for a reason," nadharia ambayo sikubaliani nayo kwa sababu unaweza kujaribu kuitumia kuhalalisha tukio lolote duniani, ikiwemo uzembe!
Kuhani Mkuu,
Kwenye bold - Una uhakika kuwa huu msemo unamaanisha tukio ya mbeleni pekee? Kwa sababu mimi ishu yangu hapa ni kwamba huu msemo unaweza ku-apply kwa tukio lililotokea siku za nyuma.

Kwa mtazamo wangu, ni kwamba wengi wetu tunautumia huu msemo kwa kubweteka kuwa jambo baya limetokea sasa hivi kwa sababu ya jambo zuri linalokuja huko mbele. La hasha! Unajuaje kuwa hilo jambo zuri unalolilalia mlango wazi limeshatokea siku za nyuma?
 

Kisura

JF-Expert Member
Jun 21, 2007
364
195
Anyway, watu wengi u-fall for that saying....

Not me! Hata siku moja sitajakaa na kuwaza kwamba series of misfortunes zinazonitokea sasa hivi zinasababishwa na ukosefu niliomfanyia xyz mwaka jana. To me, downs (kama ups) ni sehemu ya maisha, na sio "laana" aliyonirushia xyz wakati nimemkosea siku za nyuma.

Kwa hiyo, when I hear people say "what goes around comes around" to me (not that I face the saying a lot...lol), I just laugh my butt off....coz I ain't tripping for it!!!
Ndio maana nikasema:

How you handle the comeback, how you look at it, and/or deal with the consequences, is totally one’s choice, but does not change fact that, sooner or later, the "comes around" it’s going to catch up with you!
Fact is, comeback iko pale pale! You just choose to look the other way, wataalamu wengine wanaita "denial".
 

Quemu

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2007
986
1,225
Ndio maana nikasema:


Fact is, comeback iko pale pale! You just choose to look the other way, wataalamu wengine wanaita "denial".
Jamani Kisura! Comeback iko pale pale kwa watu wanao-fall kwa huo msemo. Kama mimi siamini huo msemo, then there is no such a thing as comeback, nor "denial."

Ni kama vile watu wanoamini na wasioamini uwepo wa Mungu. Huwezi kumwambia mtu asiyeamini Mungu kuwa atakwenda motoni, kwa sababu kama mwamini Mungu, unaamini kuwa hiyo ni fact.
 

Kuhani

JF-Expert Member
Apr 2, 2008
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Una uhakika kuwa huu msemo unamaanisha tukio ya mbeleni pekee? Kwa sababu mimi ishu yangu hapa ni kwamba huu msemo unaweza ku-apply kwa tukio lililotokea siku za nyuma.

La hasha! Unajuaje kuwa hilo jambo zuri unalolilalia mlango wazi limeshatokea siku za nyuma?
Kwa hiyo unasema nitajuaje kwamba jambo lililotokea leo (kwa mfano jambo baya kama kuanguka kwa ndege) limesababishwa na jambo zuri lililotokea nyuma?

Jambo zuri la nyuma limesababisha jambo baya la leo?
 

Kuhani

JF-Expert Member
Apr 2, 2008
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Je tunapinga kwamba kila kitu kina sababu?
Hapana.

Tunajadili maana ya msemo "everything happens for a reason."

Mimi nasema maana yake ni kwamba kila kitu kinachotokea, na mara nyingi hata kama kibaya, basi kina maane yake kutokea kwa sababu siku za mbele kitakuja kusababisha mazuri.

QM anasema hicho kitu kizuri kinaweza kuwa kimeshatokea. Jambo ambalo halieleweki, kwa sababu kitu cha leo kitasababishaje cha nyuma kitokee?

Unless anasema kwamba kila kitu kina sababu iliyofanya kitokee.

Inaonekana kama ndicho anachotaka kukisema, lakini hicho ni kitu kingine tofauti, na ni vizuri umeuliza. Ataainisha mwenyewe.
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
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Mnabishana maana yake au interpretation na usage (off topic), maana maana yake iko straightforward.

Unless you train your minds eye to look at the world with a mind numbing Niels Bohr's Quantum Physics outlook.
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
3,740
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For everything that happens, there is a reason. Although the semantics can also accommodate the troubling interpretation that "Everything that happens has a purpose"

The biggest refutation of the forward looking and rather optimistic outlook is the whole enterprise of evolution which is pretty much purposeless if you ask me.

Hence all the unanswerable questions.

But then again "purpose" can be a rather philosophical word, for one can say the purpose of evolution is.... I was going to say survival, but that is only through purposeless and chance mutation.

What is the purpose of evolution really if there is one, if at all you believe in evolution?
 

Quemu

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2007
986
1,225
Kwa hiyo unasema nitajuaje kwamba jambo lililotokea leo (kwa mfano jambo baya kama kuanguka kwa ndege) limesababishwa na jambo zuri lililotokea nyuma?

Jambo zuri la nyuma limesababisha jambo baya la leo?
LOL...inawezekana kuwa jambo zuri (fweza kedekede) lililowatokea wakina Mkapa, Chenge na timu mzima ya mafisadi huko nyuma limesababisha jambo baya ya uangukaji wa chopa hiyo leo hii...

Hapana sivyo hivyo! Kuweka jinsi ulivyoweka kunamaanisha kuwa hizo variables (baya na zuri) zinaweza ku-switch places. Mimi question ni kuwa kuna uhakika gani wa hili jambo zuri kuwa in the future, na sio in the past?

Mfano, unapokosa kazi uliyokuwa unaifukuzia, then ukasema "oh well everything happens for a reason"...meaning kwamba pengine umeikosa hii kazi leo, kwa sababu kuna kazi mzuri zaidi inakuja in the future. Je what if , hiyo kazi mzuri zaidi ilishapita huko nyuma na pengine ukaibeza? Una uhakika gani hiyo "kazi mzuri" iko huko mbeleni?
 
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