Membe: Hatujapata taarifa kuhusu Israel!

[Sheba]

Serikali imesema haijapata taarifa za Waziri wa Ulinzi wa Israeli, Ehud Barak, kutoa matamshi kwamba Tanzania sio nchi muhimu kwake. Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje na Ushirikiano wa Kimataifa, Bernard Membe, alipotakiwa kutoa ufafanuzi kuhusu kauli hiyo jana kwa njia ya simu, alisema kwamba hajapata taarifa kamili kuhusu suala hilo.

Hata hivyo, alitaka apigiwe simu jana mchana, lakini alipopigiwa simu yake ya mkononi ili kueleza msimamo wa serikali, simu yake iliita bila kupokelewa. Kauli hiyo kwamba Tanzania si muhimu kwa Israeli ilitolewa na Waziri Barak alipofanya mahojiano na Radio Israel na kunukuliwa na vyombo vingine vya habari vya nchi hiyo wiki iliyopita. Waziri Barak alitaja nchi muhimu na zenye maslahi kwa Israel kuwa ni Ujerumani, Uingereza na Ufaransa na siyo baadhi ya nchi maskini, ikiwamo Tanzania.

Katika taarifa yake kwa vyombo vya habari jana, Mkurugenzi wa Mambo ya Nje na Mahusiano ya Kimataifa wa Chadema, John Mnyika, alisema kupitia kauli ya kiongozi huyo wa serikali ya Israel, inaiona Tanzania sio nchi muhimu. “Tunamtaka Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje na Mahusiano ya Kimataifa, Bernard Membe kuitaka serikali ya Israel kuomba radhi kufuatia kauli hiyo au kueleza wazi iwapo mazungumzo hayo ya Waziri Barak ni msimamo wa nchi hiyo kuhusu uhusiano wa kidiplomasia wa mataifa yetu,” alisema Mnyika.

Chanzo: Nipashe

UPDATE

And the deputy minister for Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, Mr Mahadhi Juma Maalim, told The Citizen Tuesday that the government has taken the issue seriously and is holding consultations over recent derogatory remarks.

“We are holding meetings to see how we can respond to Mr Barak’s comments. We will let you know when we are ready,” he said during a telephone interview. Mr Barak has refused to apologise to Tanzania after branding the country as irrelevant as far as Israel’s relations with other nations are concerned.

Source: Israel

Mkuu,

Asante kwa mkeka huu. Uelewa wangu mdogo wa masuala ya mambo ya nje na diplomasia unanifanya nielewe sababu ya Serikali yoyote makini kutokurupuka kutoa tamko kujibu kauli iliyotolewa na Ehud Barak. Kwanza yafaa tujiulize, Mauritania ambayo nayo imetamkwa na Bw. Barak nayo imetoa tamko? Kama haijato bas kuna fumbo.

Fumbo la kwanza ni kuwa, Serikali yoyote makini haiwezi kukurupuka kujibu kauli ya Waziri wa Ulinzi ambaye kimsingi hana mamlaka ya kutamka msimamo wa nchi yoyote. Katika nchi yoyote dniani kuna sera mbili kubwa, Sera ya Ndani inayojumuisha sekta zote ikiwemo Ulinzi na Sera ya Nje. Kauli rasmi juu ya msimamo wa nchi hutolewa na Waziri au Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje na si vinginevyo. Ni sawa na kwenye familia, kauli ya baba ndio kauli rasmi, hauwezi kuchukulia kaul ya mtoto kuwa sehemu ya familia ingawa huwezi kuipuuzia maana inawakilisha discontect ndani ya familia. Hivi ndivyo ilivyotokea Israel. Kauli ile ingetolewa na Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje bila shaka Serikali ya Tanzania kupitia Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ingejibu haraka na mapema iwezekanavyo ikiwemo kuchukua hatua;

Fumbo la Pili ni kuwa mahala kauli yenyewe ilipotolewa inawakilisha uzito wa kauli yenyewe. Kauli yenyewe ya Waziri Barak ameitolea kwenye kipindi cha radio ndani ya Israel akihojiwa na wala si kwenye Mkutano wa Kimataifa. Katika Mkutano wa Kimataifa, Waziri wa sekta yoyote anaweza kuiwakilisha nchi na kutoa msimamo wa nchi kwa niaba ya Serikali yake. Ndio maana wanapoenda kwenye mikutano ya kimataifa, mawaziri hupewa hati za uwakilishi(credentials) ambazo hutambulisha mawaziri hao kuwa ni wawakilishi halali wa nchi, hati hizo husainiwa na Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje au Rais wa Nchi. Na kama kunahusisha kusaini Mkataba wowote wa Kimataifa, basi Waziri huyo kama ni Waziri mwingine tu (kwa maana si Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje )hupewa "Instrment of Full Powers" hati ambao humuwezesha kusaini Mkataba kwa niaba ya nchi. Hivyo, mazngira aliyotolea kauli Bw. Barak hayakidhi haja kuwa alikuwa akitoa msimamo wa nchi bali maoni yake.

Katika mazingira hayo, nchi yoyote makini itawasiliana rasmi na Serikali mwenzake kupitia Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje kuuliza ikiwa kauli hiyo ndio msimamo kamili wa Serikali au la kabla ya kuchukua hatua yoyote. Nci kurupuka na kuanza kujibu kauli kitakachotokea ni Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ya nchi ile kukushangaa na kusema kuwa kauli rasmi ingetoka Wizara yao na si Wizara ya Ulinzi. Hivyo ndivyo Diplomasia inavyofanya kazi. Na kwenye Diplomacy mambo humalizwa kupitia njia za kidiplomasia (diplomatic channels) kwa kuwamlengo la msimgi la diplomasia ni kuboresha mahusiano na kinyume chake ni vita.

Katika hili naamini Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje inalifanyia kazi suala hili katika levels za kidiplomasia. Haiwezekani ikawajibika kwa hisia zetu tu zinazotokana na uelewa wetu mdogo wa sekta hiyo. Ni kawaida yet kuingilia masuala ya kitaalamu na kuweka emotions. Mfano ni kawaida kwa Watanzania kukosoa madaktari, makocha wa mpira na wataalamu wengine. Hatuna sababu ya kuingiza siasa kila mahala. Naamini kauli ile ingetolewa na Waziri Mkuu wa Israel au Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje wa Israel naamini Tanzania ingeshuka kama nyuki kama ilivyofanya dhidi ya Waziri Mkuu Cameroon wa Uingereza. Na hapa si Waziri Mkuu pekee, bali Waziri Mkuu mwenye Executive Powers.

Siamini kama kuna mtu mzima humu hata mmoja mwenye busara na hekima atakayekwenda kugombana na jirani yake kwa matamshi aliyoyasikia kutoka kwa mtoto wa jirani. Kama hii ndio busara basi tunatatizo vichwani mwetu.

 

[Sheba]

Uelewa wangu wa masuala ya mambo ya nje na diplomasia unanifanya nielewe sababu ya Serikali yoyote makini kutokurupuka kutoa tamko kujibu kauli iliyotolewa na Ehud Barak. Kwanza yafaa tujiulize, Mauritania ambayo nayo imetamkwa na Bw. Barak nayo imetoa tamko? Kama haijato bas kuna fumbo.

Fumbo la kwanza ni kuwa, Serikali yoyote makini haiwezi kukurupuka kujibu kauli ya Waziri wa Ulinzi ambaye kimsingi hana mamlaka ya kutamka msimamo wa nchi yoyote. Katika nchi yoyote dniani kuna sera mbili kubwa, Sera ya Ndani inayojumuisha sekta zote ikiwemo Ulinzi na Sera ya Nje. Kauli rasmi juu ya msimamo wa nchi hutolewa na Waziri au Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje na si vinginevyo. Ni sawa na kwenye familia, kauli ya baba ndio kauli rasmi, hauwezi kuchukulia kauli ya mtoto kuwa ni msimamo wa familia ingawa huwezi kuipuuzia maana inawakilisha discontect ndani ya familia. Hivi ndivyo ilivyotokea Israel. Kauli ile ingetolewa na Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje bila shaka Serikali ya Tanzania kupitia Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ingejibu haraka na mapema iwezekanavyo ikiwemo kuchukua hatua;

Fumbo la Pili ni kuwa mahala kauli yenyewe ilipotolewa inawakilisha uzito wa kauli yenyewe. Kauli yenyewe ya Waziri Barak ameitolea kwenye kipindi cha radio ndani ya Israel akihojiwa na wala si kwenye Mkutano wa Kimataifa. Katika Mkutano wa Kimataifa, Waziri wa sekta yoyote anaweza kuiwakilisha nchi na kutoa msimamo wa nchi kwa niaba ya Serikali yake. Ndio maana wanapoenda kwenye mikutano ya kimataifa, mawaziri hupewa hati za uwakilishi(credentials) ambazo hutambulisha mawaziri hao kuwa ni wawakilishi halali wa nchi, hati hizo husainiwa na Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje au Rais wa Nchi. Na kama kunahusisha kusaini Mkataba wowote wa Kimataifa, basi Waziri huyo kama ni Waziri mwingine tu (kwa maana si Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje )hupewa "Instrment of Full Powers" hati ambao humuwezesha kusaini Mkataba kwa niaba ya nchi. Hivyo, mazngira aliyotolea kauli Bw. Barak hayakidhi haja kuwa alikuwa akitoa msimamo wa nchi bali maoni yake.

Katika mazingira hayo, nchi yoyote makini itawasiliana rasmi na Serikali mwenzake kupitia Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje kuuliza ikiwa kauli hiyo ndio msimamo kamili wa Serikali au la kabla ya kuchukua hatua yoyote. Nchi kukurupuka na kuanza kujibu kauli kitakachotokea ni Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ya nchi ile kukushangaa na kusema kuwa kauli rasmi ingetoka Wizara yao na si Wizara ya Ulinzi. Hivyo ndivyo Diplomasia inavyofanya kazi. Na kwenye Diplomacy mambo humalizwa kupitia njia za kidiplomasia (diplomatic channels) kwa kuwa lengo la msimgi la diplomasia ni kuboresha mahusiano na kinyume chake ni vita.

Katika hili naamini Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje inalifanyia kazi suala hili katika levels za kidiplomasia. Na nina amini Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ya Israel itajibu kwa kupuuza kauli hiyo. Haiwezekani ikawajibika kwa hisia zetu tu zinazotokana na uelewa wetu mdogo wa sekta hiyo. Ni kawaida yetu Watanzania kuingilia masuala ya kitaalamu na kuweka emotions. Mfano ni kawaida kwa Watanzania kukosoa madaktari, makocha wa mpira na wataalamu wengine. Hatuna sababu ya kuingiza siasa kila mahala. Naamini kauli ile ingetolewa na Waziri Mkuu wa Israel au Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje wa Israel naamini Tanzania ingeshuka kama nyuki kama ilivyofanya dhidi ya Waziri Mkuu Cameroon wa Uingereza. Na hapa si Waziri Mkuu pekee, bali Waziri Mkuu mwenye Executive Powers.

Siamini kama kuna mtu mzima humu hata mmoja mwenye busara na hekima atakayekwenda kugombana na jirani yake kwa matamshi aliyoyasikia kutoka kwa mtoto wa jirani. Kama hii ndio busara basi tunatatizo vichwani mwetu.

 

[Angel Msoffe]

kwakweli SERIKALI YA TANZANIA (CCM) IMECHOKA MPAKA INADHARAULIWA NA NCHI NYINGINE WAZIWAZI! Na bado hawana la kusema! pumb**v zenu

 

[Mpanzi]

Membe is basically saying "I don't know what to say". Which is sad given the time this brouhaha has been in the news. Anachosema ni kwamba kila anayekutukana ni lazima aandike barua yenye letterhead , mhuri na sahihi, ikiorodhesha matusi yote. Sad.

Ukisikia kitu kimetangazwa na XINHUA kwa watu wanaoelewa kuwa XINHUA ni mouthpiece ya serikali ya China, halafu zimepita siku kadhaa hakuna mtu aliyewajibishwa XINHUA, na aliyesema kapewa nafasi ya kuomba radhi kakataa, hajachukuliwa hatua yotote, na serikali ya China haijakanusha, mwenye akili unajua kwamba kuuliza kwamba "Huu ni msimamo wa serikali ya China au?" ni swali la kizushi.

So goes for Reshet Klitat HaAliya/ Radio Israel.

Obviously hii either ni rookie gaffe or Wa Israel hawajali diplomacy na hawaogopi kusema ukweli ulio undiplomatic, obviously serikali ya Israel pamoja na Barak hawataki kukubali kuomba msamaha, obviously kwa kukataa kukubali wanaifanya hii rookie mistake iwe position ya serikali kwa sababu kwao ku apologize kutakuwa embarassing zaidi ya kukubali kwamba hii ni rookie mistake.

Kwanza wanaona Tanzania hatuna hata uhusiano wa kibalozi nanyi, pili nyie watetezi wa Palestina kila siku, tatu mnamtetea Iran awe na nuclear weapons, kwa hiyo kwa nini tu apologize kwa mtu ambaye hatuna chochote cha ku gain kwake? It's not like we are going to compete realistically for the Tanzanian vote in the UN kwa resolution ya kutaka Palestine iwe a member state.

Kwa msingi huu visiwa vya Kiribati huko South Pacific, vyenye watu takriban 100,000 na zero natural resources apart from tourist attracting beaches vinaweza kuwa muhimu kwa Israel kuliko Tanzania.

Ignorant statements like these makes one want to justify Iddi Amining all Israel nationals out of Tanzania, but you can't punish people for the mistakes of politicians.

This should be an argument against the notion that Israel is "Taifa la Mungu". Kama mungu angekuwa na taifa certainly asingeumba waziri aliye stupid kufanya needless undiplomatic gaffes kama hii.

Hivi anmgesema tu kwamba Uingereza na Ujerumani ni muhimu na si kama nchi zisizoendelea point yake isingeeleweka? Kulikuwa na ulazima gani wa kununua controversy bila sababu?

Humtukani hata ombaomba irrelevant ambaye huna haja ya kumtukana sio tu kwa sababu si sawa na ni ushenzi, lakini pia kwa sababu hujui huyu ombaomba kesho atakuwa nani na anaweza kukusaidiaje.Ndiyo maana naiita hii "rookie mistake". It is a wanton disregard for the most basic principles of civility and diplomacy (especially when nothing is at stake). Generality.

Israel Taifa la Mungu, Propaganda zilianza siku nyingi!

 

[Kichuguu]

Chief diplomat wetu amebaki mdomo wazi hana la kuongea; alikuwa akikurupukia mambo ya Libya na ya ushoga ambayo hayakuwa ya msingi kabisa kwenye uhusiano wa kimataifa wa nchi hii, leo hii anashindwa kujibu hili la kutukanwa na taifa jingine, hata kama lina nguvu gani. Marekani wanaoisadia sana israle, hawajahi kusema Tanzania ni irrelevant, kiasi kuwa marais wake wote katika kipindi cha miaka ishirini iliyopita wamekuwa wakisistiza kushirikiana na Tanzania.

 

[FJM]

Kama ni kweli Benard Membe amesema hajapata taarifa kuhusu kauli ya Waziri wa Ulinzi wa Israel, basi Membe ahafai hata kuwa mwenyekiti wa serikali ya mtaa! Watanzania wa kawaida wamesikia yeye mwenye access ya 'inteligensia' inakuwaje? Ni mambo mangapi hajasikia? Utakaaje meza moja na mtu anayesema wewe sio chochote? Hatuna waziri wa mambo ya nchi za nje, hilo ni wazi!

 

[Ronal Reagan]

From what I've read here, the issue is nonestarter, futile and filled with prejudices & contempts.
1) What was the context of Ehud Barak's interview vis viz purpoted comments on Tz?
2) What was and is the diplomatic status between the two countries?
3) Why do we [NOW] think we're important ally to Israel? Historical facts proves the opposite.
4) Is Barak's statement the reason for poverty, injustice, weak leadership etc so enclave Tz in its miserable 50yrs of statehood?
5) Why did we swap truth for abuse? Seriously, being "not important to someone" is an insult or a fact?

I thus judge this as cheap and convinient means by Tz to seek Israel audience or international attention of some sorts.

 

[Kiranga]

Nimekupata mkuu lakini vinchi vingine kama haka kakwetu acha vidharauliwe. Kama kanchi kenyewe kameshindwa kujenga heshima kama alivyofanya Nyerere hapo awali, kanawezaje kupata heshima ya mataifa mababe kama Israel! Ebu angalia rais wa haka kanchi anavyorandaranda duniani na bakuli la kuhemea wakati ameacha resources kibao kwake ambazo angesimamia vizuri asingelazimika kutembeza hilo bakuli! Jamani, mimi sipendi sana kumlaumu Barak kwani heshima hata kwa mtu mmoja mmoja inaletwa na mhusika mwenyewe na siyo wengine.

Halafu mkuu naomba nisahihishe kidogo statement yako moja. Israel ni taifa teule la Mungu siyo taifa la Mungu. Kuna tofauti kubwa tu ya hizi statements. Suala hili haliwezi kupingwa kisiasa siasa tu wala kijazbajazba tu. Ni ukweli usiopingika kuwa wayahudi wana uniqueness fulani ya akili na weledi katika nyanja zote za maisha. Isitoshe, hata survival yao katikati ya msitu wa waarabu inatokana na attribute hiyo. Vinginevyo, kwa location yake kanchi kenyewe kangefutika kwenye uso wa dunia kama rais wa Iran alivyowahi kutishia siku za nyuma. Lakini pamoja na udogo wake na idadi ndogo ya wananchi Isarel imeendelea na itaendelea kuwa taifa superior duniani. Kuna mtu aliwahi kuniambia kwamba kiongozi yeyote duniani anayeilaani Israel hawezi kubaki salama. Akatoa mifano mingi sana wa mwisho ukiwa ni wa Kanali Gaddaf.

Mwisho, naomba niseme kitu kimoja kwamba ukitaka uijue Israel vizuri basi usipate shida hata kidogo wewe fanya njama ya kumwua muisrael mmoja na tangaza kabisa kwamba unahusika na mauaji hayo. Hata ukikimbilia kwenye sayari ya Mars utafuatwa tu. Kama hutaki kuamini waulize wamisri, muulize Iddi Amin, waulize wasyria, muulize Fujimori aliyekuwa rais wa Peruu.

Taifa la mungu vs taifa teule la mungu tofauti ni nini?

Ukiwa taifa teule la mungu maana yake umekuwa taifa la mungu, hata kama yote ni mataifa ya mungu, na wewe ni taifa teule, kwa hiyo kila taifa ni second class likilinganishwa na wewe machoni pa mungu.

Hakuna taifa teule la mungu kwa sababu hamna mungu. Mungu gani anakuwa na upendeleo kufanya taifa fulani?

Hata kwa binadamu, mzazi kuwa na upendeleo kwa mtoto fulani, ceteris paribus, ni weakness si kitu cha kusheherekea. Sasa kwa nini tufikiri mungu anaweza kutoa upendeleo?

Ukweli ni kwamba biblia imeandikwa na Wayahudi mostly, na walivyoandika walikuwa na interest ya kisiasa kuboost morale ya watu kupigana vita ili kuchukua maeneo ya nchi jirani. So what do you do in that position? You write propaganda and give it a religious spin with the authority of a manufactured god, saying that your people are special. This propaganda is no different to Hitlers eugenics bs and the master race propaganda, the differences are cosmetic and non fundamental such as Hitler using science (the sometimes quasi-religion of the future) instead of religion (although he used religion and was highly supported by the then pope - see "Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII") and therefore the Jewish master race seed is shrouded with religious respectability and the aura of passing the test of time, but even bs can last a long time until someone critical comes along to question. People thought heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects for 1600 years just because some know it all named Aristotle simply stated so, by pure "logical" reasoning. Then came Galileo and decided to test the theory, finding that this Aristotle fellow was completely wrong and under ceteris paribus all things fall at the same rate.

Wayahudi hawana uniqueness yoyote zaidi ya tradition yao ya kuwa na mapenzi na elimu, which explain their dominance in the sciences. Halafu wakati Christendom ilipo shun banking all over Europe (kwa sababu banking inahusisha usury, ambayo si biblical) the only people who could be bankers were the Jews ( see "The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World by Niall Ferguson" ). Kwa hiyo hizi habari nyingi za "Hili ni taifa teule la mungu etc" ni a self fulfilling prophecy na result ya mazingira kuliko chochote. Kuna watu wengi tu, hata "wasomi" Wamarekani wanaamini huu upuuzi.

Sihitaji kuua MuIsrael ku prove chochote, na usiongelee kuua kirahisi rahisi hivyo, mjinga mwingine anaweza kwenda kuua kweli, akasema nimeambiwa na fulani ukashtakiwa kufanya masterplan ya mauaji. Watu kibao washaua Jews kama sisimizi hapo ndani ya Germany na wameishi mpaka kufa kwa old age, na wengine wanadunda mpaka leo, every now and then tunasikia mmoja kakamatwa. Na hawajakimbilia hata mwezini, sembuse Mars. Wapo tele Europe, North and South America.

So much for god and his chosen nation.

 

[Sheba]

unafikiri hajapata taarifa? aseme tu kuwa anaogopa kuwaudhi mabwana zake.

Katika kudodosa nimesikia kuwa Membe yuko likizo ya mwaka. Hivyo alichojibu ni sahihi. Naibu Waziri wake ndio kaimu Waziri kwa sasa na msimamo wake utakuwa sahihi.

 

[EMT]

Hebu tukumbushane kidogo. Tz. ni mojawapo ya nchi Duniani yenye siasa isiyofungamana na upande wowote. Siasa hizi tulizishikilia tangu enzi za Nyerere. Wakati wa vita baridi kati ya mataifa makubwa (Mashariki na Magharibi) sie hatukuwa na upande wowote. Sana sana ilikuwa kazi yetu kutetea haki, kama tukiona dhulma au uonezi kwa nchi yoyote Duniani. Kwa msimamo huu tumetetea Palestina kwa kuvunja uhusiano na Israel. Pia tumeshawahi kuitetea Zimbabwe na siasa za Mugabe... Kwa msimamo huu pia tushawahi kugombana na n2i

Mkuu hapo kwenye red it was the old days, sio siku hizi. Even when it was active most of its members were firmly aligned with the soviets, some with the Americans, few were genuinely not on either side. Kwa sasa ndio kabisaa. For example, India, also a member of NAM has moved on. In fact, it ditched NAM almost completely lakini sisi ndio bado tunajifanya we’re not aligned to anyone.. The other nobodies including Tanzania who didn't know of this shrewdness are still stuck in the time warp. The joke is Tanzania feel nostalgic too

 

[Sheba]

From what I've read here, the issue is nonestarter, futile and filled with prejudices & contempts.
1) What was the context of Ehud Barak's interview vis viz purpoted comments on Tz?
2) What was and is the diplomatic status between the two countries?
3) Why do we [NOW] think we're important ally to Israel? Historical facts proves the opposite.
4) Is Barak's statement the reason for poverty, injustice, weak leadership etc so enclave Tz in its miserable 50yrs of statehood?
5) Why did we swap truth for abuse? Seriously, being "not important to someone" is an insult or a fact?

I thus judge this as cheap and convinient means by Tz to seek Israel audience or international attention of some sorts.

Nimekukubali.

Laiti tungekuwa open minded na critical tungekuwa humu ndani tunadebate along those lines. Lakini kwa bahati mbaya waliomo humu ndio critical thinkers tuliojaaliwa nchi hii. Kama hii ndio 'creme de la creme' ya nchi, basi tuna kazi huko mbeleni. Afadhali ya hawa wazee tunaowaita magamba kuliko vijana wa werevu wa aina hii wanaokuja kuchukua madaraka.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Fumbo la kwanza ni kuwa, Serikali yoyote makini haiwezi kukurupuka kujibu kauli ya Waziri wa Ulinzi ambaye kimsingi hana mamlaka ya kutamka msimamo wa nchi yoyote. Katika nchi yoyote dniani kuna sera mbili kubwa, Sera ya Ndani inayojumuisha sekta zote ikiwemo Ulinzi na Sera ya Nje. Kauli rasmi juu ya msimamo wa nchi hutolewa na Waziri au Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje na si vinginevyo. Fumbo la Pili ni kuwa mahala kauli yenyewe ilipotolewa inawakilisha uzito wa kauli yenyewe. Kauli yenyewe ya Waziri Barak ameitolea kwenye kipindi cha radio ndani ya Israel akihojiwa na wala si kwenye Mkutano wa Kimataifa.

Sijui diplomasia inasemaje lakini kwa uelewa wangu mdogo, waziri ni sehemu ya serikali na haiwezekani diplomasia ikatengwa kwa mambo ya ndani na ya nje katika mahusiano. Diplomasia ni 'package'. Kauli yake angeweza kuitoa magazetini pia, muhimu hapa ni kuwa ametoa waziri tena katika wadhifa wa ulinzi.
Sasa kama alikuwa anafanya hivyo katika comic balozi wa heshima asingekurupuka.
Ahmadinajeda aliposema anataka kuifuta Israel hakuwa katika mkuatano wa kimataifa, alikuwa anaongea akiwa nchini kwake. Kwanini diplomasia ya ndani isifanye kazi!!

Katika Mkutano wa Kimataifa, Waziri wa sekta yoyote anaweza kuiwakilisha nchi na kutoa msimamo wa nchi kwa niaba ya Serikali yake. Ndio maana wanapoenda kwenye mikutano ya kimataifa, mawaziri hupewa hati za uwakilishi(credentials) ambazo hutambulisha mawaziri hao kuwa ni wawakilishi halali wa nchi, hati hizo husainiwa na Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje au Rais wa Nchi. Na kama kunahusisha kusaini Mkataba wowote wa Kimataifa, basi Waziri huyo kama ni Waziri mwingine tu (kwa maana si Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje )hupewa "Instrment of Full Powers" hati ambao humuwezesha kusaini Mkataba kwa niaba ya nchi. Hivyo, mazngira aliyotolea kauli Bw. Barak hayakidhi haja kuwa alikuwa akitoa msimamo wa nchi bali maoni yake

Mara nyingi kiongozi mwerevu hutamka kauli yako ya mwisho 'kwa maoni yangu' au nasema binafsi au huu sio msimamo wa serikali ili kuepuka diplomatic row

Katika mazingira hayo, nchi yoyote makini itawasiliana rasmi na Serikali mwenzake kupitia Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje kuuliza ikiwa kauli hiyo ndio msimamo kamili wa Serikali au la kabla ya kuchukua hatua yoyote. Nci kurupuka na kuanza kujibu kauli kitakachotokea ni Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ya nchi ile kukushangaa na kusema kuwa kauli rasmi ingetoka Wizara yao na si Wizara ya Ulinzi. Hivyo ndivyo Diplomasia inavyofanya kazi. Na kwenye Diplomacy mambo humalizwa kupitia njia za kidiplomasia (diplomatic channels) kwa kuwamlengo la msimgi la diplomasia ni kuboresha mahusiano na kinyume chake ni vita

Membe kaulizwa na jibu lake ni kuwa hana taarifa. Kama angesema ana taarifa na linashughulikiwa hapo kusinekuwa na tatizo. Hili sio suala la siri tena, limeshagusa hisia za wananchi na diplomasia maana yake ni kulimaliza kidiplomasia kama ulivyosema ikiwa ni pamoja na kuujulisha umma japo kwa ufupi tu kuwa serikali inajua na inachukua hatua kwa kuwasiliana na serikali nyingine.
Kusema sina taarifa kwa jambo lililozagaa namna hii ni unafiki na hapa nasema historia inamhukumu Membe. Si mara ya kwanza kukana jambo au kuuhadaa umma kama alivyofanya kwenye rada.

Katika hili naamini Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje inalifanyia kazi suala hili katika levels za kidiplomasia. Haiwezekani ikawajibika kwa hisia zetu tu zinazotokana na uelewa wetu mdogo wa sekta hiyo. Siamini kama kuna mtu mzima humu hata mmoja mwenye busara na hekima atakayekwenda kugombana na jirani yake kwa matamshi aliyoyasikia kutoka kwa mtoto wa jirani. Kama hii ndio busara basi tunatatizo vichwani mwetu

Sio hisia kesha sema hataomba radhi, balozi wa heshima keshawasiliana na waziri wa mambo ya nje. Hisia zikowapi?

Waziri ni mtoto wa jirani kwa mfano huo? Ehud alipohojiwa na BBC mwezi wa August alitetea sera ya ujenzi katika mji wa Jerusalem, yeye ni waziri wa mambo ya ulinzi, sio meya wala waziri wa wizara husika. Alisema huo ndio msimamo wa serikali yake.
Huyu ndiye mtoto wa jirani unayeweza kudharau kauli zake.

Nikukumbushe kuwa wachezaji wa Simba walipopigwa na mashabiki kule Sudan, waziri mkuu J.S.Malecela alitoa kauli ya serikali kna kumwita balozi wa Sudan akitaka maelezo kamili. Hili lilitangazwa redioni na magazetini. Hapa ni busara za diplomasia kwani mzee Malecela alijua hata kama litamalizwa kidiplomasia tayari limegusa hisia za wananchi na wangependa kujua serikali inalionaje.

Maneno aliyoandika Kamau Warigi yalijibiwa na rais Kikwete katika mkutano Nairobi. Hakumtaja lakini ni wazi alimjibu. Alisema serikali za nchi zetu ziwe macho na watu wanaochochea hisia (akayataja). Kamau sio waziri ni mwandishi tu lakini tayari lilishagusa hisia za wananchi na haliwezi kuachwa tu

Diplomasia sio maongezi ya mawaziri wa mambo ya nje, ni mahusiano katika nyanja zote yanayogusu mahusiano. Diplomasia haina limit ni 'package' na imewekwa kwa ajili ya jamii moja na nyingine a sio mawaziri kama tunavyodhani.

 

[Sheba]

Serikali imesema haijapata taarifa za Waziri wa Ulinzi wa Israeli, Ehud Barak, kutoa matamshi kwamba Tanzania sio nchi muhimu kwake. Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje na Ushirikiano wa Kimataifa, Bernard Membe, alipotakiwa kutoa ufafanuzi kuhusu kauli hiyo jana kwa njia ya simu, alisema kwamba hajapata taarifa kamili kuhusu suala hilo.

Hata hivyo, alitaka apigiwe simu jana mchana, lakini alipopigiwa simu yake ya mkononi ili kueleza msimamo wa serikali, simu yake iliita bila kupokelewa. Kauli hiyo kwamba Tanzania si muhimu kwa Israeli ilitolewa na Waziri Barak alipofanya mahojiano na Radio Israel na kunukuliwa na vyombo vingine vya habari vya nchi hiyo wiki iliyopita. Waziri Barak alitaja nchi muhimu na zenye maslahi kwa Israel kuwa ni Ujerumani, Uingereza na Ufaransa na siyo baadhi ya nchi maskini, ikiwamo Tanzania.

Katika taarifa yake kwa vyombo vya habari jana, Mkurugenzi wa Mambo ya Nje na Mahusiano ya Kimataifa wa Chadema, John Mnyika, alisema kupitia kauli ya kiongozi huyo wa serikali ya Israel, inaiona Tanzania sio nchi muhimu. "Tunamtaka Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje na Mahusiano ya Kimataifa, Bernard Membe kuitaka serikali ya Israel kuomba radhi kufuatia kauli hiyo au kueleza wazi iwapo mazungumzo hayo ya Waziri Barak ni msimamo wa nchi hiyo kuhusu uhusiano wa kidiplomasia wa mataifa yetu," alisema Mnyika.

Chanzo: Nipashe

UPDATE

And the deputy minister for Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, Mr Mahadhi Juma Maalim, told The Citizen Tuesday that the government has taken the issue seriously and is holding consultations over recent derogatory remarks.

"We are holding meetings to see how we can respond to Mr Barak's comments. We will let you know when we are ready," he said during a telephone interview. Mr Barak has refused to apologise to Tanzania after branding the country as irrelevant as far as Israel's relations with other nations are concerned.

Source: Israel

Habari nilizonazo ni kuwa Membe ameonekana Lindi maeneo ya jimboni kwake, chanzo changu kimeniambia kuwa yuko likizo ya mwaka na kuwa naibu waziri ndio yuko ofisini. Hivyo inaelekea ndio msingi wa majibu ya membe, tuchukue kauli ya naibu waziri

 

[Ronal Reagan]

Between the Six-Day and Yom Kippur's wars Tz and Israel's was long dead and forgotten. So what's all the fuss here?

 

[Sheba]

Sijui diplomasia inasemaje lakini kwa uelewa wangu mdogo, waziri ni sehemu ya serikali na haiwezekani diplomasia ikatengwa kwa mambo ya ndani na ya nje katika mahusiano. Diplomasia ni 'package'. Kauli yake angeweza kuitoa magazetini pia, muhimu hapa ni kuwa ametoa waziri tena katika wadhifa wa ulinzi.
Sasa kama alikuwa anafanya hivyo katika comic balozi wa heshima asingekurupuka.
Ahmadinajeda aliposema anataka kuifuta Israel hakuwa katika mkuatano wa kimataifa, alikuwa anaongea akiwa nchini kwake. Kwanini diplomasia ya ndani isifanye kazi!!
Mara nyingi kiongozi mwerevu hutamka kauli yako ya mwisho 'kwa maoni yangu' au nasema binafsi au huu sio msimamo wa serikali ili kuepuka diplomatic row

Membe kaulizwa na jibu lake ni kuwa hana taarifa. Kama angesema ana taarifa na linashughulikiwa hapo kusinekuwa na tatizo. Hili sio suala la siri tena, limeshagusa hisia za wananchi na diplomasia maana yake ni kulimaliza kidiplomasia kama ulivyosema ikiwa ni pamoja na kuujulisha umma japo kwa ufupi tu kuwa serikali inajua na inachukua hatua kwa kuwasiliana na serikali nyingine.
Kusema sina taarifa kwa jambo lililozagaa namna hii ni unafiki na hapa nasema historia inamhukumu Membe. Si mara ya kwanza kukana jambo au kuuhadaa umma kama alivyofanya kwenye rada.Sio hisia kesha sema hataomba radhi, balozi wa heshima keshawasiliana na waziri wa mambo ya nje. Hisia zikowapi?

Waziri ni mtoto wa jirani kwa mfano huo? Ehud alipohojiwa na BBC mwezi wa August alitetea sera ya ujenzi katika mji wa Jerusalem, yeye ni waziri wa mambo ya ulinzi, sio meya wala waziri wa wizara husika. Alisema huo ndio msimamo wa serikali yake.
Huyu ndiye mtoto wa jirani unayeweza kudharau kauli zake.

Nikukumbushe kuwa wachezaji wa Simba walipopigwa na mashabiki kule Sudan, waziri mkuu J.S.Malecela alitoa kauli ya serikali kna kumwita balozi wa Sudan akitaka maelezo kamili. Hili lilitangazwa redioni na magazetini. Hapa ni busara za diplomasia kwani mzee Malecela alijua hata kama litamalizwa kidiplomasia tayari limegusa hisia za wananchi na wangependa kujua serikali inalionaje.

Maneno aliyoandika Kamau Warigi yalijibiwa na rais Kikwete katika mkutano Nairobi. Hakumtaja lakini ni wazi alimjibu. Alisema serikali za nchi zetu ziwe macho na watu wanaochochea hisia (akayataja). Kamau sio waziri ni mwandishi tu lakini tayari lilishagusa hisia za wananchi na haliwezi kuachwa tu


Diplomasia sio maongezi ya mawaziri wa mambo ya nje, ni mahusiano katika nyanja zote yanayogusu mahusiano. Diplomasia haina limit ni 'package' na imewekwa kwa ajili ya jamii moja na nyingine a sio mawaziri kama tunavyodhani.

Mbona umeanza vizuri tu, asante sana jwa kunielewa vizuri, umemtamka Ahmedinajad, yeye ni Head of State sio sectoral minister, anazo full powers za kutamka msimamo wa nchi kimataifa. Kwa uelewa wako tu, wenye mamlaka ya kutoa misimamo ya nchi ni head of State or goverment( diplomat number 1), Foreign Minister (Diplomat number 2)na Balozi wa Nchi ambao kwa wadhifa wao ni extraordinary and plenipotential. Hiyo ndio tradition ya diplomasia. Wengine wote wataweza kutoa misimamo kwenye specific context tena wa vibali (credentials au Special Envoy).

Akitoka hapa PM Pinda akaenda kutoa kauli ambayo ikaudhi nchi ningine watakwenda foreign kutafuta ufafanuzi maan Waziri Mkuu wa tanzania hayumo kwenye order of precedence ya diplomacy. Ukishaelewa hili, wala sina haja ya kujibu hoja zako nyingine.

Barak anaweza kuongelea masuala yake ya sekta ya ulinzi lakini sio mahusiano kati ya nchi na nchi.

 

[matawi]

They are taking too long to respond, as says Kiranga this silence is already a response. And as says Lizzy this tacit response does not make us proud of them.

Tanzania siyo muhimu kwa israel tu bali hata kwa watanzania wenyewe na wanaoichufua tanzania ni chama kilichooza ccm. Ehud ataanza kuona umuhimu dr wa ukweli akichukua nchi

 

[EMT]

EMT, read again what you wrote before coming to this conclusion:

We are PERCEIVED as weak because we have allowed other countries to look at us through their criterion, and worse, we are looking at ourselves through other people's criterion. We don't know how we want to be seen... we don't have an image to defend.

Nimeona in this thread, and in other thread about the same topic, some Tanzanians, here in this forum, agreeing with Mr. Barak. Not that they agree that he has the right to express his opinion about Tanzania, but agreeing that Tanzania was nothing!
That is the sign that the discourse has penetrated us, kuliko tunavo fikiria. Some of us have accepted to be what other people want us to be. Na uchungu sasa hivi nikuona maybe this reality has affected our leaders too, na ndio maana wanashindwa kutoa tamko.

Unfortunately huo ndio ukweli hata kama unauma. Ndio maana nikasema what he said is "inconveniently" true. The truth is that we're weak in all aspects and we aren't taking any serious efforts to address. If it is "the dominant discourse of power and weakness PORTRAYS Tanzania as a weak country", ni kitu gani tumejaribu kufanya ili kupambana na hili? Mbona hii "dominant discourse of power" ilikuwepo tokea zamani lakini pamoja na umasikini wetu we stood firm against it.

Miaka miachache iliyopita uchumi wetu ulikuwa alomost sawa na Brazil. Now Brazil has overtakesn Britain as world's sixth largest economy. Na ukiangalia how they reach there, they have been fighting on the international arena against the dominant discourse of power.

Angalia kuanzia kipindi cha Rais Kikwete akiwa waziri wa mambo ya nje hadi kufikia kipindi hiki cha Membe, what have they done to put back on the world map? Tumeona Somalia, Gabon, na hata Libya. At home Membe anasema hatuitambui NTC, lakini at the United Nations, Rais Kikwete anamtambulisha Kiongozi wa NTC kwa Balozi wa Tanzania Umoja wa Mataifa. Leo Membe anasema serikali haiajapata taarifa kuhusu matamshi ya Baraka, huku naibu wake ana sema they are holding meeting to see how they can respond to those comments. Full kujichanganya.
.

 

[Jaslaws]

Wantanzania tunalalamika sana,chamsingi hapa ni ukomboz wa nchi yetu tu la sivyo tutadharaulika sana..ofcoz we ar nothn'internationaly,let t b economicly,politicaly or in whtever aspect,let us do smthng ili kumprove wrong hyo mbwana,itatuchkua mda ofcz ila tunaweza,''A man who doesnot mak mistakes is aman who does nothn'' we did mistakes so we wre doin smthn' i bilve cku tukifanya ukomboz wa nch ye2 kutko kwnye mikono ya hii serikali zandki na ya kifasadi ya CCM tutamkarabati israel na atatushanga.

 

[EMT]

Labda anataka kupata barua

Suala kutoitambua NTC na lile la ushoga alipata barua toka kwa nani?

 

[Kiranga]

From what I've read here, the issue is nonestarter, futile and filled with prejudices & contempts.
1) What was the context of Ehud Barak's interview vis viz purpoted comments on Tz?

He was trying to say Britain, France and Germany are very important to Israel and not like some "third world" country with no influence. He did not need to name Tanzania to make that point

2) What was and is the diplomatic status between the two countries?

No formal embassies, I believe we have some sort of honorary consular (the one who filed complaints with the government of Israel)
Tanzania and Israel don't see eye to eye as pointed out before. Tanzania is mainly pro Palestine and advocates for Iran to gain legal access to nuclear technology. Israel is at the opposite end of that spectrum.

3) Why do we [NOW] think we're important ally to Israel? Historical facts proves the opposite.

I am not aware that is the fact. As far as I understand, some of us are protesting being insulted, especially unnecessarily. This is not equal to saying we are saying we are an important ally to Israel. Barak could have made his point without insulting Tanzania.

4) Is Barak's statement the reason for poverty, injustice, weak leadership etc so enclave Tz in its miserable 50yrs of statehood?

This question is largely irrelevant to the issue at hand, nobody claimed that. And whether we are poor or not, Barak has no right to insult us, especially needlessly. Unless this is a calculated diplomatic undiplomatic passive-aggressive statement.

5) Why did we swap truth for abuse? Seriously, being "not important to someone" is an insult or a fact?

This violate the basic rules of civility and international diplomacy, which is not based on facts. Hata kama jirani yako ambaye si muhimu kwako ana pua mbaya, husemi tu barabarani anapoweza kukusikia "Jirani yangu huyu ana pua mbaya" bila sababu, hata kama ni kweli. Sio kila ukweli ni lazima usemwe saa zote. Utaanzisha vita bila sababu.

I thus judge this as cheap and convinient means by Tz to seek Israel audience or international attention of some sorts.

Tanzania did not start this, Barak started this, so the more appropriate thing to conclude here is perhaps Israel is trying to humiliate by using unorthodox means towards countries that have a record of not supporting its agenda.

This is a new low in international diplomacy, even Berlusconi-like buffoons and borderline burgeoning burlesques of the sort did not have the temerity to trapeze troupe themselves in trivial tantrums.

This is not the finery of a foreign policy, it's more like vagabonds drunk with power. You would expect this talk from some semi-literate dictatorfrom a banana republic, not from the so called "taifa teule la mungu" ( see Barack, I did not need to name any country to ridicule Israel's foreign policy).