Mdahalo wa Ugomvi: Ati Nyerere alikuwa Dikteta; aliua wengi...

[Nguruvi3]

Mzee Mwanakijiji,
Naloweza kusema tu kwa leo ni kwamba we are out of control! Hili linchi linajiendesha lenyewe kama gari bovu na hakika JK uongozi umemshinda. Haijulikani leo rais wetu ni nani, bunge na mahakama vyote ni vyombo visivyokuwa na mwongozo isipokuwa kwa maslahi ya watu. Hizi ndio athari kubwa za mfumo tulochukua na nakuhakikishia haijalishi nani atakuwa madarakani mambo haya hayatakwisha kesho..

Ahaa! Mkandara, hata gari bovu utamuona dereva akihangaika,utingo akiweka vigogo! Nadhani tuseme nchi hii inakwena kwa 'Solar Energy'. Tuombe tu solar system isiwe na matatizo! Nafuatilia habari za NASA kila siku si kujua uvumbuzi, bali kuona space na solar vinawezaje kuathiri mwenendo wa nchi hii.

 

[Kiranga]

it is assumed kuwa mtu yeyote anaweza kupata takwimu kirahisi tu kwa vile ziko wazi kupatikana na ni public knowledge.

Never assume if you can help being more thorough.

It was likewise assumed that the earth was flat for a long time due to deceptive sensory perceptions.

If you want to make your case convincingly, the fact that the said statistics are easily available as you claim, should make the case for you to provide these statistics in your arguments, not not to provide.

You are giving your detractors room to plant doubt in the validity of your case unnecessarily.

Do not leave the task of making your case to chance or the graces of your opposition, if the necessary statistics are easy to obtain that should be the more reason for you to present these statistics. Not presenting easily obtained statistics is more unfathomable than not presenting not easily obtained statistics. You would have us believe the opposite it seems.

Seal the integrity of your case with tangible data, do not let it be up to the effort of others - including your detractors- to do that.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Wakati wa Mwalimu, wapo watu waliowekwa vizuizini kwa nia ya kuwahoji, au kama njia ya kuwaondoa toka kwenye jamii kutokana na nia zao za kukwamisha juhudi za kujenga a socialist state; lakini wengi waliachiwa, wengine walikimbia nje, na hatujawahi kusikia mtu kuuliwa zaidi ya suala hili kuchukua mkondo wa an 'urban legend' i.e hadithi za vijiweni that appears mysteriously and spread spontaneously kwa njia mbalimbali na mara nyingi kuwa uzushi;

Awamu zilizofuatia, kama Mzee Mwanakijiji anavyoelezea, yapo matukio mengi na yanapatikana kwa just a single google string of search; matukio ya watanzania kuuwawa bila ya watuhumiwa kuchukuliwa hatua za kisheria ni nyingi sana, kuanzia mauaji ya Kilombero Sugar, migodini, wafanyabiashara, vurugu za kisiasa na chaguzi kuu, na hata miongoni mwa watawala wenyewe ambapo hata mkuu wa nchi ambae pia ni Mkuu wa vyombo vya ulinzi na usalama nchini akikiri mbele ya umma kwenye luninga kwamba hali imefikia pabaya kiasi cha watu kutoaminiana tena kwa kuacha glasi zao za maji bila uangalizi;

 

[jembe mwanaharakati]

Wabunge 8 wa bunge la 1965 walifukuzwa bungeni sababu ya kudai mfumo wavyama vingi akiwemo Joseph kasela bantu wa tabora na modestus chogga wa iringa kusini na waliwekwa vizuizini mpaka wakafa

 

[Kiranga]

Upo sahihi, lakini Kassim Awadh ameenda an extra mile kwa kusema: "Kwa Muono Wangu, Nyerere Aliua Sana"; again, "KWA MUONO WANGU..."

Kwa muono wa mtu aliyepata psychedellic hallucinogens anaweza kujisikia yeye ni Yogi anayepaa mawinguni bila ya msaada wa ndege wala chombo chochote.

As long as ni muono ama imani tu tu anaruhusiwa, hatuna tatizo na muono ama imani.

Akitaka kutuambia kwamba hiyo ni fact tutamchenjia na kutaka maelezo zaidi.

That Kassim Awadh was being modest was purposely, for it seems he has much to be modest about. For example, the fact that he did not support his "muono" with figures or even a passing anecdote.

And in this, Kassim Awadh does not present a significantly different case from Mwanakijiji, fundamentally. Though they may sit on the extreme opposite ends of this seesawing spectrum. They both present speculations of a criminally irresponsible caliber.

Some places you could get sued for libel for some utterly groundless insinuation and shyt like that.

 

[Kiranga]

Wabunge 8 wa bunge la 1965 walifukuzwa bungeni sababu ya kudai mfumo wavyama vingi akiwemo Joseph kasela bantu wa tabora na modestus chogga wa iringa kusini na waliwekwa vizuizini mpaka wakafa

Angalau huyu ana anecdote.

Joseph Kassela Bantu naye aliwekwa kizuizini mpaka akafa?

 

[Zakumi]

Kwa hiyo Nyerere sio dikteta kwa sababu waliomfuatia wameua au wanaua zaidi?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kwa hiyo Nyerere sio dikteta kwa sababu waliomfuatia wameua au wanaua zaidi?

Fasili ya dikteta ni nini?

 

[Kiranga]

Kwa hiyo Nyerere sio dikteta kwa sababu waliomfuatia wameua au wanaua zaidi?

Wakati kuna watu wana ma principle ya integrity wanakwambia kuua ni kuua tu, haisaidii kitu katika kuondoa kosa kama umeua mtu mmoja na si watu milioni moja.

Na ukiangalia kweli, vipi kama huyo mmoja angekuwa wewe?

 

[Kiranga]

Fasili ya dikteta ni nini?

Dikteta ni mtu anayetawala kiimla, kwa matakwa yake bila kutaka mawazo mengine wala upinzani.

 

[Zakumi]

Fasili ya dikteta ni nini?

Anayeongoza kimla.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Kwa muono wa mtu aliyepata psychedellic hallucinogens anaweza kujisikia yeye ni Yogi anayepaa mawinguni bila ya msaada wa ndege wala chombo chochote.

As long as ni muono ama imani tu tu anaruhusiwa, hatuna tatizo na muono ama imani.

Akitaka kutuambia kwamba hiyo ni fact tutamchenjia na kutaka maelezo zaidi.

That Kassim Awadh was being modest was purposefuly, for it seems he has much to be modest about, for example, the fact that he did not support his "muono" with figures or even a passing anecdote.

And in this, Kassim Awadh does not present a significantly different case from Mwanakijiji, fundamentally. Though they may sit on the extreme opposite ends of this seesawing spectrum. They both present speculations of a criminally irresponsible caliber.

Some places you could get sued for libel for some utterly groundless insinuation and shyt like that.

Kimsingi naelewa hoja yako lakini hili la kumfananisha Mwanakijiji na Kassim Awadh nitatofautiana na wewe kidogo kwa maana moja: Mwanakijiji right from the outset declared huu ni mdahalo, tena wa uchokozi and set in motion dondoo ambazo zitasaidia kugawa watu katika makundi mawili, one opposing the motion, and the other for the motion; sijui umeliona hili?

Kassim Awadh, yeye ameingia kwenye mjadala (tofauti na Mzee Mwanakiji as i narrated hapo juu) na kuja na hoja za upande wa ku-oppose, which is fine, lakini akaishia kutoa tu opinion, not facts; Awadh was supposed to come with a much stronger position/argument than that;

Hivi do we know already Mzee Mwanakijiji yupo upande gani wa huu mdahalo zaidi ya kutusaidia to set the motion? May be I am slow lakini sijaona bado na kwa principles za debate, whoever sets the motion anakuwa zaidi ni moderator, unless kama tutam judge Mwanakijiji based on his already known ideological orientation, but again judging him only based on that is also pre mature because hatuna facts za Mwanakijiji bado. Akizileta at some point, we will scrutinize them.

But again, katika hili haya ni maoni yangu tu, na sina facts;

 

[Kiranga]

Anayeongoza kimla.

Ukisema kuongoza unampa ujiko, more like kutawala.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Anayeongoza kimla.

Dikteta ni lazima aue ili awe dikteta?

 

[Kiranga]

Kimsingi naelewa hoja yako lakini hili la kumfananisha Mwanakijiji na Kassim Awadh nitatofautiana na wewe kidogo kwa maana moja: Mwanakijiji right from the outset declared huu ni mdahalo, tena wa uchokozi and set in motion dondoon ambazo zitasaidia kugawa watu katika makundi mawili, one opposing the motion, and the other for the motion; sijui umeliona hili?

Kassim Awadh, yeye ameingia kwenye mjadala (tofauti na Mzee Mwanakiji as i narrated hapo juu) na kuja na hoja za upande wa ku-oppose, which is fine, lakini akaishia kutoa tu opinion, not facts; Awadh was supposed to come with a much stronger position/argument than that;

Hidi do we know already Mzee Mwanakijiji yupo upande gani wa huu mdahalo zaidi ya kutusaidia to set the motion? May be i am slow lakini sijaona bado, unless kama niku judge based on his known ideological orientation, but again judging him only based on that is also pre mature because hatuna facts zake bado.

But again, katika hili haya ni maoni yangu tu, na sina facts;

Kama hujaona kwamba Mwanakijiji anamtetea Nyerere basi you are right in thinking that you are slow.

Bottom line, wote hawana data wala anecdote za kushawishi, and i restricted my analogy to that fact.

 

[Pascal Mayalla]

Mzee Mwanakijiji with all due respect nakuomba ipitie ID hii Mlyafinono kuna kitu not normal Nashindwa kuongea moja kwa moja nisije kuwa navunja kanuni za JF, ila pitia thread zake zote na last started thread utapata jibu ni kwa nini yupo kimya mpaka leo hasa baada ya kuuwawa Daud Mwangosi?

Mkuu JB WISER, baada ya kumsoma Mlyafinono, na kukuta thread yake ya mwisho ndiyo ile anazungumzia polisi kupanga kuua mkutano wa Chadema, na kweli baada tuu ya polisi kuua ukweli, hakuposti tena, the mode ameifunga thread without a word! "Its Amaizing Coincidence"!, machozi yamenitirika!.

 

[Zakumi]

Dikteta ni lazima aue ili awe dikteta?

Dikteta sio lazima aue. Kiongozi alilazimisha mawazo yake kuwa ni msingi wa maisha ya watu wengine tayari ni dikteta hata kama ana nia nzuri.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Dikteta sio lazima aue. Kiongozi alilazimisha mawazo yake kuwa ni msingi wa maisha ya watu wengine tayari ni dikteta hata kama ana nia nzuri.

Je, Nyerere alilazimisha mawazo yake kuwa ndiyo msingi wa maisha ya watu wengine?

 

[Wingu]

Nyerere kwa mikono Yake mwenyewe kawaua wengi mno niamini Hakuna wakumfananisha na kiongozi yeyote aliyefuata.Kifupi huko aliko anajuta alichokifanya duniani

 

[Mchambuzi]

Kama hujaona kwamba Mwanakijiji anamtetea Nyerere basi you are right in thinking that you are slow.

Bottom line, wote hawana data wala anecdote za kushawishi, and i restricted my analogy to that fact.

Inawezekana I am slow kwani tangia nikiwa Form I, mwalimu alipokuwa anakuja na motions to debate kama vile: "Committing Suicide is a solution to Problems", sio mimi tu (we/the class) understood right from the outset kwamba she was setting us a motion to debate, na kwamba the motion did not necessarily represent her case, ingawa tulijua fika anatokea kabila la WAHEHE.