Lt Gen. Kayumba Nyamwasa: Why I fled Rwanda'


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INTERVIEW: Gen. Nyamwasa- Why I fled Rwanda

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WANTED MAN: Gen. Nyamwasa

Friday, March 5 2010

Renegade former Rwanda military chief Lt. Gen. Kayumba Nyamwasa, who is now in exile in South Africa, has denied he was part of a coup plot against President Paul Kagame.

Speaking on Wednesday to Upfront Africa on Voice of America, for the first time after his escape last week through Uganda, Gen. Nyamwasa also denied he had political ambitions to unseat Mr Kagame. Gen. Nyamwasa was a key player in the Rwanda Patriotic Army/Front guerilla movement that brought President Kagame to power in 1994. It is reported that he has since fallen out with the Rwandan President over his varying political ambitions. He enumerates the reasons why he fled a revolution he helped start.

Mr Nyamwasa, the government of Rwanda yesterday (Tuesday) alleged that you are behind the recent grenade attacks in Kigali, what is your reaction to this?
That is malicious propaganda. Just harassment. I was harassed when I was in the country and they are trying to extend the harassment even when I am abroad.

What is the status of your family back in India? Your wife was on radio and said she was under house arrest?
Yes. The situation is grave. It is dire. We as a family were sent to India to represent the country. It is very unfortunate that my family which has nothing to do with whatever I am being accused of, is being harassed. That shows you what kind of regime we have been serving.

Tell us about the genesis of your fall out with the government in Rwanda
I am not the only one. Look at the turnover of all people who have served in that regime. It tells the whole story. Look at all those who have served with President Paul Kagame, ask him who is still serving with him now. If all of us are bad and he is the only good person, then Rwanda has no future.

Were you questioned by security agencies in Rwanda before your departure?
Not at all. I was questioned by a group of operatives put together to harass me and you could see the harassment method was to provoke me into argument and eventuality cause arrest. So there was no security organ that I met. So if they say I was questioned by any security organ, that is not correct.

What do you think is the basis of all this?
The regime in Kigali is really descending into total dictatorship and you know absolute power corrupts absolutely. So, in this case you don't have to have a different opinion, you are not supposed to debate and if you are perceived to have a different opinion on anything, then you are an enemy. That's what happened to me.

You said you were questioned by a group of people. What are some of the questions they were asking you?
These are questions which don't ask anything. The first question was, I had gone to Rwanda to bury my mother who had died and there was no government officials attending the burial ceremony. So the first question was what I make of the fact that there were no government officials at the burial. You can imagine that kind of question to a person who is still mourning his parent.
And then the other question was that I had gone to the UK for studies; that I sympathise with people who had been thrown out of the government unfairly. That I sympathise with the families of some late comrades and things like that! All those kinds of nonsense.

Are you perceived in any way as some sort of political threat to the power of the president within the party its self?
That could be a perception. The fact that some media houses write something like that; but that happens in every country. They could have cross checked my track record. I didn't have any intention to challenge anybody in politics. But even if it was the case, what is wrong with that?

So you did not have any kind of political ambitions to take over the presidency of the party?
No, I believe in democracy and if I had wanted to stand for any party position I would have presented my candidature. But to be frank, that has never been my intention. But all I am trying to tell you is that even if it were the case, which it's not, there wouldn't have been a problem with that in my view.

Why didn't you stay in Kigali after being questioned by the security agencies? Don't you think this aggravated the situation?
No security agencies questioned me. The secretary general of the party has nothing to do with diplomacy. That's not the minister of foreign affairs, he is not the President.
In the first place, he never had any right to question me. If you look at the people in the meeting, some of them were ministers, Members of Parliament and police officers.
There is nothing like security organs. That's why I am telling you a group of operatives, some fellows who are just sycophant[ing] around just to obtain positions and maginalise other people.

So this was basically a meeting with members of the ruling party who called you to come in, there was no interrogation of any sort by and security agency whatsoever?
Yes, that's right.

So you decided you should extract yourself from this situation?
Yes

Every time there is this type of fall out in Rwanda, we see that the parties involved try to leave the country&[HASHTAG]#8230[/HASHTAG]; why?
It's because they have no faith in the judiciary, no faith in government institutions because they have no faith, then you go to seek for justice where it is.

But someone would say you have been serving this country for over a decade, is it now that you are seeing it happening because you are the victim? Has this happened in the past?
Yeah, exactly, that's why I ran away. Because I have been trying, asking people to reform and to make sure these institutions are strong enough to defend people and yet they have been marginalised and monopolised. That's why I had to leave. If I had faith in the institutions, I would have stayed.

Do you have hope that your wife and family will be able to join you?
It is very difficult but she is brave so she will probably be able to make it.

Did you reach out to the minister of foreign affairs who is supposedly your boss to talk to her about this issue before you left the country?
She is the first person who sacked me that day without even wanting me to find out. And look at her track record- she is just a new entrant who is just trying to protect her position, what do you expect from her?

So what is your future now? What are you going to do? What should we expect in the coming days or years?
Look at it from this perspective; I spent all my youthful years fighting for justice and fighting for the unity of the Rwandese people but at this time, it is going to be difficult I am aware.

Source: INTERVIEW: Gen. Nyamwasa- Why I fled Rwanda
 
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Ndio hapo unashangaa matatizo yote waliyonayo bado sisi wabongo tunataka kujiingiza kichwa kichwa kwenye hii EAF.
 
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Ndio hapo unashangaa matatizo yote waliyonayo bado sisi wabongo tunataka kujiingiza kichwa kichwa kwenye hii EAF.
niliongea kwenye mada fulani kuhusu tunavyoingia kichwakichwa E.A.C,mbaya zaidi ni kwamba hawachelewi kujifanya viranja wakaja kutuvaa na kutukandamiza maana jamaa naona anatafuta misifa all round neighbouring country zimtukuze kwasababu ni kibaraka wa mmarekani.
 
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Aluu
wanyarwanda wazuri huyu jamaa kama yuko hivi mke wake atakuwaje?
 
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Aluu
wanyarwanda wazuri huyu jamaa kama yuko hivi mke wake atakuwaje?
he heee,mzee angalia usiwe kama bwabwa,huyo mzuri sura tu rohoni hapo jamaa ni muuaji mzuri sana,tena muuaji anayependa kuua taratibu yaani torturer.
 
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Kagame ni dikteta lakini ana mawazo sahihi. Nchi kama rwanda inahitaji uongozi wa style ya kidikteta fulani kwa muda. Kupreach mambo ya demokrasia tuuuu bila kuangalia ukweli halisi pia ni tatizo.

Sisemi kaame ndio anafaa kuwa Rais a rwanda ila kwa rais yeyote yule wa rwanda anahitaji kuwa na some sort of dictator leadership. Huo ndio ukweli halisi nionavyo mm.

Mbona Tanzania mpaka kesho tunamsifia Sokoine na Nyerere. At that particular time or may be even now CCM need some sort of dictator leaders.
 
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Mie sioni tofauti yao huyu alikuwa rebel,Kagame rebel na Museveni Rebel wanatakiwa waondoke waje watu wengine waanze upya.
 
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Kagame ni dikteta lakini ana mawazo sahihi. Nchi kama rwanda inahitaji uongozi wa style ya kidikteta fulani kwa muda. Kupreach mambo ya demokrasia tuuuu bila kuangalia ukweli halisi pia ni tatizo.

Sisemi kaame ndio anafaa kuwa Rais a rwanda ila kwa rais yeyote yule wa rwanda anahitaji kuwa na some sort of dictator leadership. Huo ndio ukweli halisi nionavyo mm.

Mbona Tanzania mpaka kesho tunamsifia Sokoine na Nyerere. At that particular time or may be even now CCM need some sort of dictator leaders.
thats my point,tatizo sio udicteta tuu ni pamoja na ukabila kupita kiasi,hicho ndicho nnachoongelea kwamba hatakiwi awe namna hiyo kwani itasababisha hii kabila nyinginé waone wanaonewa waanzishe vita tena,kwa mambo mengi kagame amejitahidi sana sana na namuunga mkono tatizo ni hapo kwamba kila muhutu ni genocidaire,mpaka mtoto sasa hivi akizaliwa na wazazi wahutu anaonekana muuaji,hii itasababisha vita kutoisha pale ndiyo mambo ambayo yanasababisha coup d,etat kila siku rwanda.
 
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Huyu jamaa kwani ni mhutu. But whatever tribe he is nahisi KAYUMBA hajaridhika baada ya mapambano yote kutupwa ubalozini tena India. kavumilia kachoka anataka mabadiliko labda ataekwa position anayotaka yeye.

"Fahari wawili hawezi kukaa zizi moja".

Kwa mtazamo wangu huyu kayumba alitarajia more than kuwa Rwanda ambassodor to India. Ni hii tamaa ya cheo ndio inamfanya atake watu waone other side of kagame's face. Kagame huyu wa leo ni yule yule kayumba aliyekuwa naye msituni.
 
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But the guy has got good points
 
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babukijana

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Huyu jamaa kwani ni mhutu. But whatever tribe he is nahisi KAYUMBA hajaridhika baada ya mapambano yote kutupwa ubalozini tena India. kavumilia kachoka anataka mabadiliko labda ataekwa position anayotaka yeye.

"Fahari wawili hawezi kukaa zizi moja".

Kwa mtazamo wangu huyu kayumba alitarajia more than kuwa Rwanda ambassodor to India. Ni hii tamaa ya cheo ndio inamfanya atake watu waone other side of kagame's face. Kagame huyu wa leo ni yule yule kayumba aliyekuwa naye msituni.
ofcourse,ile post ya kayumba kuwa ambassador india alipewa baada ya coup kwa kagame kushindikana mwaka 2007,sijui kama ni kweli lakini inasemekana kayumba na karegeya waliandaa mipango wamu- assasinate kagame,wakafail.kama ilivyokuwa kwa idd amin,kagame alitanguliza gari inayombeba na bodyguard na dereva na yeye akasafiri na gari ingine na ndio aliponea hapo,wale bodyguard na dereva waliuliwa,ndio kisa cha kayumba na karegeya kuonekana hawafai kwa kagame,keregeya alifungwa baada ya hapo alipotoka kwa bail akatoroka,kayumba aliwekwa pending wamtafutie kisa,ndo hii juzi alipokwendakwenye kikao cha ma diplomat wote rwanda wakawa wanataka kumbambika yale makosa ya grenade atack in kigali city kwamba alihusika,bahati nzuri kwake akawahi kutoroka na sasa yuko na mwenzie karegeya south,lakini familia yake yote inashikiliwa india.
 
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niliongea kwenye mada fulani kuhusu tunavyoingia kichwakichwa E.A.C,mbaya zaidi ni kwamba hawachelewi kujifanya viranja wakaja kutuvaa na kutukandamiza maana jamaa naona anatafuta misifa all round neighbouring country zimtukuze kwasababu ni kibaraka wa mmarekani.
Mkuu kunawatu waliokuwa wanatoa kejeli kwenye ile thread unayozungumzia. Sasa tumesikia anayosema insider wa serikali. Kuna baadhi ya watu wanadhani kuwa Kagame ni saint, huyo jamaa ni mtusi kama Kagame anakosana na watusi, i wonder itakuwa vipi kwa wahutu.
 
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jamaa anatakiwa kuacha uroho wa madaraka badala yake atafakari jinsi ya kuijenga nchi yao na kujipanga vema ili mauaji yasitokee tena
 
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INTERVIEW: Gen. Nyamwasa- Why I fled Rwanda

Tell us about the genesis of your fall out with the government in Rwanda
I am not the only one. Look at the turnover of all people who have served in that regime. It tells the whole story. Look at all those who have served with President Paul Kagame, ask him who is still serving with him now. If all of us are bad and he is the only good person, then Rwanda has no future.
That is Gen Paul Kagame...
 
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jamaa anatakiwa kuacha uroho wa madaraka badala yake atafakari jinsi ya kuijenga nchi yao na kujipanga vema ili mauaji yasitokee tena
Ni kweli kabisa lakini believe me, sio kazi rahisi kukubali kuishi kikondoo, ukiona mtu mzima muda wote anapiga NDIYO MZEE muangalie mara mbilimbili, kutakuwa na tatizo kichwani.

Mustakabali wa Rwanda utategemea zaidi weredi wa Gen Paul Kagame. kwa kiongozi wa nchi tete kama Rwanda yampasa aanze mazungumzo ili kuwabadilisha maadui zake kuwa marafiki badala ya huu muelekeo wake wa kuongeza maadui kila siku, vingenevyo ata kama atafia madarakani ataiacha familia yake kwenye wakati mgumu sana, Rwanda yapaswa iwe zaidi ya Gen Paul Kagame.
 
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The genesis of their fall-out is this:
This guy is more educated than Kagame. He graduated as a lawyer from Makerer before joining Museveni in the busg in 1984, while Kagame is a form IV drop-out! And during the war, this guy was head of the army, when Kagame of course was commander-in-chief. This guy I hear he is popular in the army and Kagame is uncomfortable with this! So, they fell out. But again, jeshi litakuwa demorilised, weakened! Ule ubabe was kupiga Congo, Uganda, etc, utaisha kwani watagawanyika. Na siku si nyingi utasikia coup!! Kagame byebyeeeeeee.
 
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That is Gen Paul Kagame...
now is not only kayumba,hitimana the ambassador to holland also resign and fled to romania,the main jounalist who also worked in kagame government and fled to belgium for 8 yrs now is held after coming back and accused in grenade attack happened on last wednesday also cooperative with kayumba remember theyre all tutsi,soon kagame goin to put everybody rwandese in jail is just now he feel little shy with international community serving there,otherwise tungekuwa tunaongea mengine hapa.evil is always evil.killer is always killer
 
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now is not only kayumba,hitimana the ambassador to holland also resign and fled to romania,the main jounalist who also worked in kagame government and fled to belgium for 8 yrs now is held after coming back and accused in grenade attack happened on last wednesday also cooperative with kayumba remember theyre all tutsi,soon kagame goin to put everybody rwandese in jail is just now he feel little shy with international community serving there,otherwise tungekuwa tunaongea mengine hapa.evil is always evil.killer is always killer
Tunakumbuka Doe alivyoingia madarakani na alivyotoka madarakani, tunakumbuka Taylor aliingia kwa mkwara alitoka kimya kmya, mifano mingi tu. Kenge ni kenge tu huwezi kumwita Kenge Mamba.
 
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Kagame ni dikteta lakini ana mawazo sahihi. Nchi kama rwanda inahitaji uongozi wa style ya kidikteta fulani kwa muda. Kupreach mambo ya demokrasia tuuuu bila kuangalia ukweli halisi pia ni tatizo.

Sisemi kaame ndio anafaa kuwa Rais a rwanda ila kwa rais yeyote yule wa rwanda anahitaji kuwa na some sort of dictator leadership. Huo ndio ukweli halisi nionavyo mm.

Mbona Tanzania mpaka kesho tunamsifia Sokoine na Nyerere. At that particular time or may be even now CCM need some sort of dictator leaders.
Si rwanda tu kaka, ni nchi zote za kiafrica zinahitaji utawala wa kidikteta.bila hivyo, no even a single step forward
 
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The genesis of their fall-out is this:
This guy is more educated than Kagame. He graduated as a lawyer from Makerer before joining Museveni in the busg in 1984, while Kagame is a form IV drop-out! And during the war, this guy was head of the army, when Kagame of course was commander-in-chief. This guy I hear he is popular in the army and Kagame is uncomfortable with this! So, they fell out. But again, jeshi litakuwa demorilised, weakened! Ule ubabe was kupiga Congo, Uganda, etc, utaisha kwani watagawanyika. Na siku si nyingi utasikia coup!! Kagame byebyeeeeeee.
Kwahiyo yanayoendelea ni yaleyale ya kila siku, egoes zetu tunazozitukuza. kazi ipo, Duuh!.
 

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