Kwa mwenye uelewa kuhusu nafasi ya Cardinal Pengo kwenye ukatoliki

[umumbati]

Mko mnatafuta mkuu ni nani ili mpeleke rushwa za yule fisadi mkuu,? Waprotestant bwana, hamna pa kutokea, mnajua kikwazo cha yule fisadi mkuu ni kanisa katoliki, hivyo mnatafuta mkuu wa kanisa katoliki Tanzania ni nani mpenyeze rupia? Imekula kwenu

 

[Mbase1970]

We IQ fupi sana! Yani unahukumu uelewa wangu kisa hukubaliani na Mimi? Kwa taarifa yako tu, Mimi ni mkatoliki hard to core, naifaham vizuri church hierarchy, kanisa siyo sum of national churches!! Kila jimbo lina autonomy we takataka, Pengo hawezi na hana mamlaka yeyote nje ya jimbo lake la dar es salaam, Pengo akiongea hawakilishi Tanzania, anawakilisha Dar! Kuna bwege mwingine kama wewe kaanzisha thread eti makao makuu ya kanisa Tanzania yaamishiwe Dodoma! Nonsense kabisa, ndo akili kama zako. Yani mnadhani pale st Joseph ndo makao makuu ya kanisa Tanzania? Muundo wa kanisa siyo national churches, hatuna individual national church, kuna had padri ni cardinal kwa taarifa yako, umegusa pabaya. Eti nikuPM? Nikupm mbumbumbu wa mwisho.shiit

Mkuu kuna watu wengi sana hawalijui hili kanisa japo wanaitwa wakatoliki. Watu wanafikiri kua Francis ana tofauti na padre mwingine yeyote kati uso wa kanisa. Hawajui kwamba sacrament ni moja tu katika kanisa katoliki la roma nayo ni ya upadre hakuna sacrament ya uaskofu wala upapa.

Kuna wakati nasoma makala za watu wakielezea kanisa kwetu waelewa tunacha tu maana kutaka kujua unatakiwa kuifuata historia ya kanisa.

Juzijuzi nilipambana na kijana mmoja mkatoliki wa kiingerza nilipomwambia muangulikana ni mkatoliki alitoka macho na kubisha na huku akinionyesha rozari. Na nilipomwambia kuna waangilikana wanasali rizari ikabidi atulie nimpatie somo. Sikumlaumu wengi pia wanachanganya katu ya ukatoliki na ukatiliki wa roma. Pengo ni mkuu wa jimbo la kanisa katoliki la roma jimbo kuu la dar. Na si vingenevyo.

Ukatoliki ama Catholicism ni wale wakristu wote ambao hawa kuprotest. Maana ukiingia katika misa za Anglican wale wanaoitwa conservative bado misa yao haina tofauti na kanisa la roma na wanamtambua Pope Francis kama kiongozi wao wa kanisa na siyo Queen.

 

[b191]

Narudi muda siyo mrefu na facts.

 

[Bahati furaha]

Ijulikane tu kuanzia papa mpaka padre wa kawaida hawana tofauti maana wote ni mapadre. Hivyo padre yeyote anaweza kusema lolote lile ambalo linahusu jamii ambayo yeye kama kiongozi wa kiroho anao wajibu wa kukemea.

Uaskofu ni mgawanyiko tu wa kiutawala kati ya mapadre. Pengo ni kiongozi wa jimbo kuu la dar ambalo yeye ni Archbishop kuna maskofu hapo dar watakua chini yake kiutawala lakini pia hana mamlaka yeyote kwao kiutumishi.

Ilikuwa vipi hadi Kilaini akahamishwa Mkuu? Kama unao ufahamu tafadhali au mwingine yeyote atuhabarishe.
Huyu Mfipa ni shida kidogo.

 

[b191]

Narudi muda siyo mrefu na facts.

Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy

The Catholic clergy is organized in a strict, sometimes overlapping hierarchy:

Pope: Head of the church, he is based at the Vatican. The pope is infallible in defining matters of faith and morals.

Cardinal: Appointed by the pope, 178 cardinals worldwide, including 13 in the U.S., make up the College of Cardinals. As a body, it advises the pope and, on his death, elects a new pope.

Archbishop: An archbishop is a bishop of a main or metropolitan diocese, also called an archdiocese. A cardinal can concurrently hold the title. The U.S. has 45 archbishops.

Bishop: A bishop, like a priest, is ordained to this station. He is a teacher of church doctrine, a priest of sacred worship, and a minister of church government. The U.S. has 290 active bishops, 194 head dioceses.

Priest: An ordained minister who can administer most of the sacraments, including the Eucharist, baptism, and marriage. He can be with a particular religious order or committed to serving a congregation.

Deacon: A transitional deacon is a seminarian studying for the priesthood. A permanent deacon can be married and assists a priest by performing some of the sacraments.

Source: Time Magazine.


Kwa mtazamo huu huyu ndugu ana vyeo viwili;

1. Cardinal (Kardinali)

2. Arch-Bishop (Askofu Mkuu wa Jumbo Kuu la Dar es salaam)

Nadhani nimeeleweka vizuri.

 

[Mbase1970]

Ilikuwa vipi hadi Kilaini akahamishwa Mkuu? Kama unao ufahamu tafadhali au mwingine yeyote atuhabarishe.
Huyu Mfipa ni shida kidogo.

Holy see itakua ilitoa huo uhamisho kama wengine walivyosema u cardinal hauna maana kamili katika teologia. Soma hapa

The cardinalate is not an integral part of the theological structure of the Catholic Church, but largely an honorific distinction that has its origins in the 1059 assignation of the right of electing the Pope exclusively to the principal clergy of Rome and the bishops of the seven suburbicarian dioceses.[49]Because of their resulting importance, the term cardinal (from Latin cardo, meaning "hinge") was applied to them. In the 12th century the practice of appointing ecclesiastics from outside Rome as cardinals began. Each cardinal is still assigned a church in Rome as his "titular church" or is linked with one of the suburbicarian dioceses. Of these sees, the Dean of the College of Cardinals holds that of Ostia, while keeping his preceding link with one of the other six sees. Traditionally, only six cardinals held the rank of Cardinal Bishop, but when Eastern patriarchs are made cardinals, they too hold the rank of Cardinal Bishop, without being assigned a suburbicarian see. The other cardinals have the rank either of Cardinal Priest or Cardinal Deacon, the former rank being normally assigned to bishops in charge of dioceses, and the latter to officials of the Curia and to priests raised to the cardinalate.

 

[Mbase1970]

Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy

The Catholic clergy is organized in a strict, sometimes overlapping hierarchy:

Pope: Head of the church, he is based at the Vatican. The pope is infallible in defining matters of faith and morals.

Cardinal: Appointed by the pope, 178 cardinals worldwide, including 13 in the U.S., make up the College of Cardinals. As a body, it advises the pope and, on his death, elects a new pope.

Archbishop: An archbishop is a bishop of a main or metropolitan diocese, also called an archdiocese. A cardinal can concurrently hold the title. The U.S. has 45 archbishops.

Bishop: A bishop, like a priest, is ordained to this station. He is a teacher of church doctrine, a priest of sacred worship, and a minister of church government. The U.S. has 290 active bishops, 194 head dioceses.

Priest: An ordained minister who can administer most of the sacraments, including the Eucharist, baptism, and marriage. He can be with a particular religious order or committed to serving a congregation.

Deacon: A transitional deacon is a seminarian studying for the priesthood. A permanent deacon can be married and assists a priest by performing some of the sacraments.

Source: Time Magazine.


Kwa mtazamo huu huyu ndugu ana vyeo viwili;

1. Cardinal (Kardinali)

2. Arch-Bishop (Askofu Mkuu wa Jumbo Kuu la Dar es salaam)

Nadhani nimeeleweka vizuri.

Halafu hapo Dar kuna maaskofu kama watatu ama wanne.
Yupo Pengo kama kiongozi wa jimbo kuu na ana maaskofu wanaitwa Auxiliary wawili ambao hawana majimbo yao bali ni wasaidizi wake na yupo mwingine muwakilishi wa Holy See aitwaye pia kama nuncio.

 

[kilambalambila]

Seen!!

 

[bigmind]

Habar wakuu! mimi ni muumini wa dhehebu la katoliki, kumekuwa na simtofaham baina ya sisi wakatoliki kuhusu nafas ya pengo katika baraza la maaskofu tanzania! jana nilikuwa nabishana na jamaa mmoja mwenye itikad tofaut na ukristo kwa kusema ivyo nadhan mtakuwa mmenipata jamaa ni itikadi gan! kwa uwelewa wangu nafaham kama pengo ni askofu wa jimbo kuu katoliki la Dar ila kwenye balaza la askofu tanzania sifaham nafas yake na jamaa yeye anasema pengo ndio kiongozi mkuu wa wakatoliki tanzania sasa kwa mwenye uelewa juu ya hili tunaomba atufafanulie najua wapo baadhi ya wakatoliki wenye uwelewa mdogo kama mimi, ivyo kwa faida ya wengine , kiongozi mkuu wa wakatoliki tanzania ni yupi? ni kweli Pengo au kuna mwingine? na kama kuna mkubwa zaidi ya Cardinal Pengo uyo nae atakuwa Cardinal au atakuwa na cheo gan?

Kadinali Pengo hana mamlaka ya kimzuia Askofu kusema juu jambo lolote na siyo msemaji wa kanisa Katoliki nchini

soma vyema huo uzi..! Ukipenda ukopi uupandushe juu..!

 

[mfungua mafundo]

Kwa utaratibu wa ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHES, maamuzi yote au msimamo wa kanisa kitaifa unatoka kwenye baraza la maaskofu. Ambalo lina mwenyekiti wake kwa sasa anaitwa Ngalalekumtwa, ni askofu mkuu wa jimbo la iringa. Huyo pia huww kama ndo msemaji mkuu wa mambo ya kanisa katoliki kitaifa mambo yanayoamriwa na baraza la maaskofu.

 

[NDESSA]

Mkuu uelewa wako ni mdogo, we siyo mkatoliki, nakushauri tafuta muumin mkatoliki mwenye kuelewa. Au kiongoz yeyote wa kanisa mkatoliki jiran yako

Ningekupa namba yangu lkn natumia cm siwez kuingia PM

Wewe ndio una uelewa mdogo huyo unaemkosoa ameeleza vzuri.Ukiacha mambo ya kanisa hata Jf nani kakuambia ukiwa unatumia simu huwezi kuingia PM?

 

[NDESSA]

Mkuu wa Kanisa Katolic ni mwenyekiti wa balaza la maaskofu wakatolic (TEC) na Pengo n mjumbe tuu kwasababu n askof nae. Lakin yeye n mwakilishi wa kanisa katolic kdunia yaaani kama kunamamb yanajadiliwa na kuhitaj maamuz baasi yey ndo kaz yake yaaani n kama wazr wa mamb ya nje wa kanisa katolic

Sio kweli,ukisema ni kama waziri wa FA unakosea.Cardinals ukiacha kuingia ktk mchakato wa kumpata papa huwa wanapangiwa departments za kuongoza kule Vatican katika kumsaidia majukumu baba mtakatifu lakini haendi kuwakilisha nchi,kila Askofu anawajibika mwenyewe Vatican.
FYI Kuna nchi hazina Cardinal.

 

[MLA PANYA SWANGA]

Ukardinali sio cheo cha kiutawala katika ukatoriki bali ni uteule tu wa kuweza kupata nafasi ya kuwa karibu na papa.

Kanisa katoriki ni Dora moja Duniani nzima rais wake ni Papa, kimamlaka ya kiutawa ukitoka kwa Papa unashuka kwa maaskofu wa majibo ambao nikama wakuu wa mikoa alafu chini ya majibo kuna parokia ambazo nikama wilaya alafu vigango kama kata na jumuia kama mitaa.

Chini ya Papa/rais, hakuna cheo cha kimamlaka ya kati kama vile makamo wa rais, waziri mkuu au mawaziri.

Mgawanyo wa kiutawala wa maeneo wa kanisa katoriki haufuati mgawanyiko wa maeneo ya kiserikali mfano Jimbo la rulenge la yule askofu mkatoriki ngangari kama Kakobe utawala wake unaanzia Ngara mpaka Chato.

Ni sawa, hata Jimbo la katoliki sumbawanga linaibeba hadi tunduma mbozi.
Lakini bado ndani ya Tanzania kwa katoliki bado Pengo ni mostly closely kwa Papa kwani Papa hutoka miongoni mwa makadrinali ambao lazima wawe ni mapadri na maaskofu wa majimbo by this means Tanzania ni pengo ndiye anaeuhusiwa hata kumchagua Papa japo hata makadrinali huwa hawaitwi wote.
Nadhani tusilumbane sana tamko la kadrinali ni tamko la kikao cha Baraza la maaskofu Tanzania. Kila askofu ujue naye anachunguzwa. Ktk vyeo pengo ana rank fulani ya juu ingawaje naye ni askofu.
Mawaziri wote ni sawa ila siyo sawasawa kwani waziri mkuu naye ni waziri lakini si sawa na waziri mwingine wa kawaida. Namfananisha Waziri mkuu na cheo cha ukadrinali. Mkoa ambao ukitembelewa na kadrinali ulinzi wake na msafara huwa non compared to other Bishop. Kuna kitu.

 

[zesinia]

Endeleeni kujidanganya kuwa Cardinal ni sawa na shemasi askofu wa Rulenge!

 

[NDESSA]

Halafu hapo Dar kuna maaskofu kama watatu ama wanne.
Yupo Pengo kama kiongozi wa jimbo kuu na ana maaskofu wanaitwa Auxiliary wawili ambao hawana majimbo yao bali ni wasaidizi wake na yupo mwingine muwakilishi wa Holy See aitwaye pia kama nuncio.

Hata Arusha na Bukoba ina Maaskofu wawili.

 

[NDESSA]

Kwa utaratibu wa ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHES, maamuzi yote au msimamo wa kanisa kitaifa unatoka kwenye baraza la maaskofu. Ambalo lina mwenyekiti wake kwa sasa anaitwa Ngalalekumtwa, ni askofu mkuu wa jimbo la iringa. Huyo pia huww kama ndo msemaji mkuu wa mambo ya kanisa katoliki kitaifa mambo yanayoamriwa na baraza la maaskofu.

Uko sahihi ila marekebisho kidogo Askofu wa Iringa sio Askofu Mkuu,Iringa sio Jimbo kuu katoliki.Kwahyo tunamuita Askofu Tarcius Nagaralekumtwa.

 

[Mbase1970]

Hata Arusha na Bukoba ina Maaskofu wawili.[/
Upo sawa nimeaangalia hili jimbo la Bukoba lilikua na ma auxiliary bishops tangu zamani. Wakati wa Rugambwa labda sababu ya ukubwa wa jimbo. Lilikua na auxiliary bishop moja

 

[CHAZA]

Mfumo wa kanisa katoliki hauna askofu Mkuu WA Nchi Bali kila askofu WA Jimbo ana mamlaka kamili ya Jimbo lake hivyo anawajibika moja kwa moja kwa papa. Kanisa katoliki lina baraza la maaskofu hivyo wana mwenyekiti na katibu WA baraza la maaskofu hao ndio wasemaji WA baraza hilo la maaskofu kwa Nchi husika. Cheo cha ukardinari ni cheo cha uwakirishi tu WA Nchi kuingia baraza la papa kuchagua papa. Zipo Nchi zina makardinar zaidi ya wawili. Pia kardinar anaweza kuwa hata padre na Huko nyuma mashemasi walikuwa wanateuliwa kuwa makardinar.. Hivyo ndugu zangu pengo Sio Mkuu WA kanisa katoliki Tanzania mfumo huo haupo ktk kanisa katoliki.

Swali lingine,je kuna Askofu amewahi kuwa Kadinali kutoka nje ya mkoa wa Dar es Salaam? Je ipo mifano ya Kadinali ambayo hakuwa Askofu wa Jimbo la Dar?

 

[NDESSA]

Ni sawa, hata Jimbo la katoliki sumbawanga linaibeba hadi tunduma mbozi.
Lakini bado ndani ya Tanzania kwa katoliki bado Pengo ni mostly closely kwa Papa kwani Papa hutoka miongoni mwa makadrinali ambao lazima wawe ni mapadri na maaskofu wa majimbo by this means Tanzania ni pengo ndiye anaeuhusiwa hata kumchagua Papa japo hata makadrinali huwa hawaitwi wote.
Nadhani tusilumbane sana tamko la kadrinali ni tamko la kikao cha Baraza la maaskofu Tanzania. Kila askofu ujue naye anachunguzwa. Ktk vyeo pengo ana rank fulani ya juu ingawaje naye ni askofu.
Mawaziri wote ni sawa ila siyo sawasawa kwani waziri mkuu naye ni waziri lakini si sawa na waziri mwingine wa kawaida. Namfananisha Waziri mkuu na cheo cha ukadrinali. Mkoa ambao ukitembelewa na kadrinali ulinzi wake na msafara huwa non compared to other Bishop. Kuna kitu.

Umejikoroga kweli kweli kama hujui kitu soma comments tu,Ask Pengo hana rank kimamlaka kuzidi maaskofu wenzake na hakuna Askofu anayeripoti kwake na Pengo sio msemaji wa TEC,yeye ni mjumbe tu kama maaskofu wengine.Msemaji wa TEC ni mwenyekiti wa TEC anayechaguliwa kwa miaka 3 kwahyo TEC kuna Mwenyekiti,Makamu Mkiti na Katibu mkuu ambaye anakuwa Padri.Tamko lolote la TEC linatolewa na Mkti au Makamu wake sio Pengo,FYI Pengo alishawahi kuwa Makamu Mkiti wa TEC akiwa chini ya Askofu wa Dodoma aliyekuwa Mwenyekiti.Kwa sasa Mkiti wa TEC ni Askofu wa Iringa Ngaralekuntwa huyu ndio msemaji wa TEC mpaka atakaomaliza muda wake wa uongozi.

 

[NDESSA]

Sawa labda ni archdiocese pia.
Bukoba ni archdiocese sijui arusha. Yule Askofu wa Bukoba anaitwa Archbishop

Hapana Bukoba sio Arch diocese, Majimbo makuu katoliki yalikuwa matano tu kwa sasa yako sita baada ya kuongezwa Dodoma majimbo hayo ni Arusha,Tabora,Songea,DSM,Dodoma na Mwanza.
Arusha ni Archdiocese hivyo wana Archbishop. Bukoba kuna Bishop