Kwa hoja zangu hizi inawekana kweli mvua ya gharika haikunyesha dunia nzima, wataalamu wa maandiko na historia mnikosoe.

Umenichanganya na hii "upepo kuvuma jangwani na maji ya mto naili kujaa tope..."kwa hiyo mkuu unataka kuniaminisha kuwa biblia haifai
 
 
Da'Vinci said:
Mkuu Sir Khan
  1. PIGO LA NILE KUWA DAMU: Mto naili hutiririsha maji yake kutoka nyanda za juu za Ethiopia na sudani. Huko unakoanzia kuna nchi yenye udongo mwekundu. Ilitokea mvua kubwe ilinyesha, udongo mwekundu ukasombwa na hatimae mto nile kuwa mwekundu sababu ya udongo. maji ya nili hayakugeuka damu, bali lilikuwa tope jekundu.
  2. PIGO LA VYURA: Baada ya mto nili kujaa tope jekundu, vyura wake (mtoni) walishindwa kuishi katika hali ile na iliwalazimu kutoka nje ya mto, hivyo kulandalanda katika nchi ya misri wakitafuta maji safi kwa ajili ya kuzaliana, ikizingatiwa kipindi cha maji mengi ndipo vyura huzaliana.
  3. PIGO LA NZI: Wale vyura waliokimbia mtoni na kurandaranda nchi kavu waliishia kufa kwa sababu ya kutozoea mazingira. hivyo inzi wakapata ahueni ya kuzaliana kwa sababu ya uchafu uliosababishwa na kufa kwa vyura hao.
  4. MARADHI: Kuenea kwa maiti/mizoga ya vyura, harufu mbaya na kuzagaa kwa mainzi kulisababisha nchi kukumbwa na maradhi ya mlipuko, ukiwemo ugonjwa wa majipu.
  5. NYOKA.: Hawa viumbe walienea nchini wakisaka vyura. vyura walipotoweka mitoni iliwalazimu nyoka kutafuta vyura wengine au chakula kingine popote kilipo.
  6. VIFO; hivi vilitokea sababu ya maradhi kama iliyoainishwa hapo juu, pamoja na kukosekana ka maji safi ya kunywa.
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Aisee
 
Ndugu umeandika vizuri Lakin hiyo mifano uliyoweka mara kuvuka bahari maji kupwa na kujaa haijakaa vema.

Wakati nasoma Kitabu cha cha mawazo nafundishwa na Padre Mkatoliki ili nijibia Mtihan alisema kuwa Gharika haikuwa ya dunia mzima isipokuwa kipindi hiko Dunia ilikuwa inaonekana ni Middle East
 
mkuu hiyo ishu ya mapigo ya Misri umeitoa kwenye muvi ya Exodus:Of Kings & Prophets nini?
 
Elungata said:
WHAT THEY CARRIED
The bible says The COI left Egypt with their “borrowed” Egyptian jewels of silver and jewels of gold and raiment along with all their flocks and herds,and much cattle, and their unleavened dough. In addition, they had those things “such that they required” that the Egyptians “lent” them.
However, here is what they did NOT have with them because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. Exodus 12:39
  • any victual for themselves other than the unleavened bread.
  • food for the flocks, herds and even very much cattle.
  • water for themselves and the flocks, herds and even very much cattle.
  • tents large enough for a family of at least 10 and sturdy enough to withstand 40 years of desert blowing sand around like sandpaper.
  • arms, shields, swords, spears,
  • knowledge of how to fight – they were slaves, not taught the art of war
  • components for the Ark that God would make them construct
  • beasts of burden; oxen and carts to haul all of the above which they did not have but which magically appear later on in the story.
ARRIVAL
Imagine the chaos of 3,000,000 people arriving at each of the 18 locations identified above with all their herds etc and no organization to tell them where to go, what to eat, where to take care of hygiene. This is all so ridiculous it doesn’t merit any more attention.
COMMUNICATION
The “Children of Israel” were the same in number as the American city of Chicago. Chicago is spread over 130 square miles.
Seriously… How did Moses communicate with all “the children of Israel”? Remember, all this communication transpired in less that 24 hours.
CLOTHING
What about clothing?
Now, on the very same night that marked the anniversary of their four hundred and thirtieth year (earlier we read 400 years), they all left Egypt. All 3 million of them with their flocks, herds, cattle, bread and stolen booty.
But what about clothing? They did not have much time to pack. They left in one night. All 3 million of them. For forty years then, these people go through the desert with only the clothes they brought with them on that departure eve. Really?!
I suspect those clothes got pretty ragged and torn and rank after about the 10th year. And, no relief from the unabated sun of the desert. I’ll bet they needed a lot of water and sun tan lotion.
WATER
Although God presumably provided food in the form of “Manna” and quail, there is no mention of Him providing water other than from a single rock and the 12 springs at Elim. Huge quantities of water would have been necessary to support 3,000,000 people and all the livestock they stole from the Egyptians. The city of Philadelphia requires 250 MILLION GALLONS OF WATER A DAYdistributed via 3,300 miles of underground pipes. But the “Children of Israel” were moving around – hence the water supply would have to move with them. Remember they were in a desert! One rock spouting water did not supply 3 million people. Even if it did, it would have gushed at a rate of 175,000 gallons a minute onto the desert floor. Old Faithful in Yellowstone Park “gushes” a maximum of only 8400 gallons a minute. Wanna take a sip?
Seriously, what was the source of the water that maintained a city the size of Philadelphia and their livestock for a period of 40 years? How was it distributed?
From church of the truth.org
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Elungata said:
From church of the truth.org

Reproduction Rates
Jacob enters Egypt with “All those who were descendants of Jacob were seventy persons” Four hundred and thirty years later, approximately 3,000,000 “Children of Israel” leave Egypt. Using basic population statistics, each woman had 9-10 children. However, this prodigious production of children apparently ended the moment they left Egypt.
The same would be true of their livestock. In order to have sufficient numbers of livestock to support the growing numbers which were increasing at an exponential rate, the livestock would have had to also increase at an exponential rate. Apparently this exponential rate of reproduction also stopped the moment they left Egypt.
Nowhere To Go
Children of Israel “escaped” to Canaan, yet Canaan was a province of Egypt so they were still under the rule of the Egyptians, even though they were in the “promised land”.
God’s Broken Promise
God promised that he would return His people … well, you read it:
And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. Exodous 3:8
BUT… only two of those to whom God made the promise actually made it to the land flowing with milk and honey. God compelled them to roam the deserts instead for forty years, until all of them except two had perished. Of all the multitude who escaped from Egypt, only Joshua and Caleb entered the promised land. Even Moses had to die in sight of it.
Their God was worse than the Egyptians ever were. He was quick-tempered, unreasonable, cruel, revengeful, and dishonest. Few of his promises to them were performed. Their tortuous path across the wilderness was marked by a track of death and bleaching bones.
Wait… What?
No mention of the Pyramids? Either they built the Pyramids or the Pyramids were already there. How is it possible that there is no mention of the Pyramids in the entire saga?
Because the story was concocted by authors who had no idea of the nature of Egypt; had never seen Egypt.
Pharaohs’ Names?
Why doesn’t Moses mention the names of these offending Pharaohs?
First of all, the word Pharaoh does not appear in any Egyptian literature – these were Kings, not Pharaohs. Giving the name of the King that negotiated with Moses would sure help fact check this ridiculous story.
Second of all, the names of Egyptian Kings of the 1500 BC era were unknown to the authors of the book of Exodus. Modern scholarship sees the book as initially a product of the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), with final revisions in the Persian post-exilic period (5th century BCE). The authors of Exodus had no idea who the Kings of Egypt were some 800-900 years ago. How could they possibly know?
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Elungata said:
WRITING OF THE TORAH
According to religious tradition, everything found in the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) was given by God to Moses, some at Mount Sinai and some at the Tabernacle. This dictation and recording resulted in the Torah we have today. No serious, unbiased religious scholar believes that the Torah was written by Moses during the period of the Exodus. Read about the Documentary Hypothesis.
Those five books contain over 100,000 English words. If Moses wrote in Cuneiform, the only form of writing known in that area in that era, it would have taken over 5,000,000 characters to represent the books of the Torah.Here is what the cuneiform symbol for “head” looks like:

The symbol represents an Old Assyrian version of the early 2nd millennium, as adopted into Hittite. Early 2nd millennium is about the time Moses would have been transcribing God’s words.
For reinforcement of how difficult writing in cuneiform is, here is a section of the peace treaty between Hattusa and Ramses II, circa 1250 BCE.

The photo represents the state of the art of writing in 1200 BCE. Note the thickness of the “tablet”. Very thick in order to prevent breakage as it is transported via ox cart over bumpy roads no doubt. Think how many similar tablets Moses would have had to produce. Think of the problems of transporting these back to Canaan given the massive weight and size of the thousands of “tablets”. There can be little doubt that Moses would have had to write in some form of Cuneiform given the state of writing at the time he recorded God’s words.
Now then, upon what did Moses record these words? Writing in wet clay with a stylus was the method of writing in that era. To make the writing permanent, the clay had to be fired. But Moses didn’t have access to clay, only sand. He didn’t have a kiln to fire the clay into solid tablets that could be transported either.
The accumulation of these tablets would have added tons to the transportation burden.
How were these writings preserved during the 40 years?
We don’t have the stones containing words written by God himself onto stone (IE, the 10 commandments), but somehow we have managed to keep intact the entire texts of the Torah? We have apparently been able to preserve God’s word on how to make Aron’s breastplate:
“And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.” Exodus 28:15
Those stones survived long enough to be translated. But where are they now? Thousands of tons of writings created by icon Moses and not a one of these holy stones, words from the mouth of God himself, none of them survived?
The Children of Israel couldn’t even keep track of the two most sacred stone tablets written by the finger of their God. How then, did they ever maintain, intact, thousands of stone-like tablets of Cuneiform scrawled upon by Moses?. When and by whom and where were they translated? Why don’t we have ANY of them now?
The Torah describes events that occur AFTER Moses could have written them – including his own death! (So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. Deuteronomy 34:7)
Most of the time, the authors of the Torah use Moses’ name in third person; e.g. “… the Lord said unto Moses …” There are a few instances where the phrase “… the Lord said unto me…” is used. So, it is obvious that it was not some kind of stylistic approach to use the third person because it is not done exclusively. This is more evidence that the Torah was not written by Moses and that Exodus cannot be true because of its’ own internal contradictions.
What Did Happen; i.e. The Truth

From the NOVA series, The Bibles Buried Secrets, read what Carol Meyers, an archeologist and professor of religion at Duke University, has to say about the significance of the Moses narrative in ancient times, the role it plays in American history, and why it continues to resonate with us today.VERY INTERESTING – CLICK HERE!
Summary, in case you don’t follow the link: Canaanites went to Egypt for a variety of reasons. They were generally assimilated—after a generation or two they became Egyptians. There is almost no evidence that those people left. But there are one or two Egyptian documents that record the flight of a handful of people who had been brought to Egypt for one reason or other and who didn’t want to stay there.
There you have it. Some Egyptians, originally from Canaan, left Egypt to return home; THAT IS YOUR EXODUS.
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interesting...though terribly misinformed!
 
ivunya said:
Ndugu umeandika vizuri Lakin hiyo mifano uliyoweka mara kuvuka bahari maji kupwa na kujaa haijakaa vema.

Wakati nasoma Kitabu cha cha mawazo nafundishwa na Padre Mkatoliki ili nijibia Mtihan alisema kuwa Gharika haikuwa ya dunia mzima isipokuwa kipindi hiko Dunia ilikuwa inaonekana ni Middle East
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Mkuu imekaa vyema hiyo biblia yangu ndio inaeleza hivo
 
Kwa kifupi tu, Uislam na Ukristo ulibase zaidi mashariki ya kati, ulaya na kaskazini mwa Africa kama Misri, Sudan na Ethiopia.

Ndio maana hata matukio yanayosimuliwa ni ya maeneo hayo pekee. Walidhani dunia ni ndogo kiasi hicho.

Biblia inasema tafuteni elimu mpaka bara China. Yani waliamini China ni mbali sana.

Hawakua na habari kama kuna Amerika ya kusini, au Afrika ya kusini.

Hata Mtume Mohammad na Yesu kristo, simulizi za maisha yao zinaishia mashariki ya kati, ulaya na kaskazini mwa Africa.

Swali ni je, hakukua na umuhimu wa Yesu kuisambaza injili mpaka Amerika ya kusini?

Vipi mtume Mohammad, hakuona umuhimu wa kufika Africa ya kusini kusambaza uislam?

Au hawakujua kama kuna watu huko? Kwanini wasijue wakati ni mitume wa Mungu wenye nguvu kubwa kiroho?

Na kama walijua kuna watu, kwanini waliwabagua wakaishia hapo mashariki ya kati na ulaya pekee?

I'm confused!
 
Da'Vinci said:
Ahsante sana mkuu.
Lakini kumbuka nilichokiandika nimetoa badhi ya vitu ndani ya biblia yangu (Ya zamani mno aliacha babu angu alisomea seminar za wakoloni)

Kuhusu giza.
Upepo uliokua unavuma toka jangwani ndio ulioleta vumbi zito angani na kufanya kuwe kuna giza na mpaka leo hayo hutokea huko misri.

Mana ni chakula kinachotoka kwenye mti kama nilivyolezea lakini Mungu aliwapatia mana ambayo haikutoka kwenye mtu mpaka leo ipo mana huko sinai.

Vyura walikimbia mtoni si kua maji yalijaa tope tu bali hata amji yalichafuliwa na uchafu mbalimbali huoni wakati wa mvua vyura hua vingi mtaani hasa vijijini?
Mkuu maji yalikua yamekupwa sema katika kusimulia watoto wao wakawasimulia vibaya kama nilivyoelezea. Ukumbuke Mungu hua hatoi muijiza tu kua kitu kinatokea hapana hua kunapitia sayansi kubwa mno ndio maana baadhin ya miujiza ikichunguzwa kunapatikana ugunduzi mfano friji ilivyotokana na Mungu kuupoza moto wa tanuli.

Mkuu hata Yesu kutembea juu ya maji hakutembea tu bali kuna taratibu za kisayandi pale ndio maana alitembea
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Nipo intetested kuzijua hizo taratibu za kisayansi za kutembea juu ya maji
 
Da'Vinci said:
Salute Comrades
Nimekua nikijaribu kuji-challange mwenyewe juu ya matukio mbalimbali yaliyoelezewa kwenye biblia kuona ni kweli yalitokea na hua napata majibu ya kiridhisha. Nimeangalia hili tukio la mvua kuubwa iliyonyesha kipindi hicho amabapo iliangamiza binaadam wote na wanyama kasoro mjukuu wa mtu mtakatifu Henocko na wanae ndio walipaki na sampo kadhaa za wanyama. Mvua hiyo inaitwa Ghalika ya Nuhu
NB. Mimi ni Mkristo Mkatoriki na najivunia kwa hilo.

Nimejaribu kufuatilia hili swala la mvua kubwa kunyesha dunia nzima nimeona inawezekana kabisa hii mvua haikunysha dunia nzima lakini ni eneo alilokua anaishi nuhu tu.
Ni kwamba Musa hakuandika matukio yote katika vile vile vitabu vitano vya mwanzo (mwanz,kutoka,hesabu,torat,walawi) ila aliwaagiza waisrael wawasimulie matukio yote watoto wao, sasa walipowasimulia watoto wao hawakuwasimulia kama wataalam wa histori pia waliwasimulia watoto wao kama mambo kama walivyoyaona kwa macho si kama wataalam wa elimu ya viumbe, mazingira,sayansi nk.
Mfano. Waliona maji ya mto naili yamekua mekundu tena yana nuka rangi hiyo ikawa nyekundu kama damu tukio hilo walisimulia kua Maji yaligeuka kua damu.
Hivyo inawezekana kutokana jinsi walivyowasimulia bila kua na elimu ya mambo waliwasimulia vibaya waandishi wa mambo ya kale kwamba mvua ilinyesha dunia nzima.
Baadhi ya vitu vilivyosimuliwa vibaya kutokana na ukosefu wa elimu na kusimulia jambo kama walivyo liona ni haya..
NB. Mungu hufanya miujiza kwa aina kuu mbili ambazo ni
1. Mungu anatenda jambo fulani la pekee kabisa lisiloweza kutokea kwa namna yoyote ile hapa duniani bila uweza wake mfano Kufufua mtu.
2. Mungu anatenda jambo fulani linaltokea mara kwa mara kumsaidia mtu fulani katika mzingira ya pekee nalo hilo ni muujiza sababu limetokea kwa maongozi ya Mungu wakati uleule anapolihitaji mtu yule
Soma kisha connect dots mwenyewe kuhusu mvua ya gharika.
.
  • Mapigo kumi ya Misri
Mapigo kumi ya misri toka zamani hadi siku hizi yalikua yanatokea kubadirika kwa rangi ya mto naili,nzige,upepo unaovuma kwa nguvu toka jangwani na kuleta mawingu ya mchanga na mchana kubadirika kua giza. Sasa ipo hivi Mvua ilinyesha kubwaa ikapelekea maji ya mto naili kujaa matope mekundu vyura wakakimbilia kwenye majumba, baadae vyura wakafa wakaleta chawa na harufu kali mjini. Upepo ukavuma toka jangwani ukaleta vumbi zito angani hatimaye kufanya mchana kua na giza.
Sasa wana wa israel walipowasimulia watoto wao walisema maji ya mto naili yalikua mekundu kama damu baadae nawatoto waksimulia kua maji yalikua damu.

  • Hesabu ya wana wa Israel
Inakadiriwa wana wa Israel waliku 600000 kut 38:26 na Hes 1:46 wanaume wenye uwezo kwenda vitani 603550 (bila walawi) hivyo idadi ya wana Israel wote wanapata kufika milioni 2. Lakini biblia inaonyesha kua hesabu hiyo inapita hesabu ya kweli ya waisrael waliotoka misri (kut23:29-30). Sasa ili tuelewe tarakimu za biblia inabidi tujue namna mbalimbali ya kutumia tarakimu nyakati za kale. Lugha ya kiebrania haitumii tarakimu pekee kuhesabia pia herufi za lugha hiyo hutumika kama namba, mfano A hutumika kama tarakimi 1 na B kama 2. Kutoana na maandiko mengine ya zamani neno la kiebrania Elef (kwa kiswahili Elfu ) lina maana ya jamaa na pia tarakimu 600 . Hivyo yawezekana watu wa zamani walipoona maandishi Walitoka misri watu miasita elfu walisima sahihi kua walikua Jamaa 600 baade wakafahamu vibaya wakasoma 600000

  • Kuvuka Bahari ya shamu
Kutokana na vitabu vya historia (Kutoka) inasemekana kua sehemu walipovuka waisrael katika bahari ya shamu hapakua na maji mengi sana, maji yalikua yamekupwa hivyo walipita vizuri. Lakini wakati wamisri wanavuka maji yakajaa. Hivyo walipomua wanasimulia watoto wao walisema kua maji yaligawanyik/yalikauka wakapita.

  • Chakula cha Mana
Mungu aliwalisha chakula wana wa Israel karibu na mlima sinai kwa makundi ya kware na chakula flani kinachoitwa mana.

Sasa ipo hivi Karibu na mlima sinai makundi ya kware hupita kila mwaka kwa wakti flani lakini pia kuna mti flani wenye matawi mengi, kinazaa chakula kinachoitwa mana wenyeji wa pale hukitumia mpaka leo inasemekana kinafanana na mana ya biblia.Chakula hicho hapo sinai hubatikana kwa uhaba lakini kwa uwezo wake Mungu waisrael walikipata kwa wingi na makundi ya kware kwa wingii.

Hiyo ni baadhi tu ya mifano nimechoka ku-type ningeorodhesha mingii mno.
Hivyo najenga hoja kua kutokana na mifano hiyo hapo juu inawezekana mvua haikunyesha dunia nzima sema kutokana na masimulizi yalivyokua yanasimuliwa wakasema mvua ilinyesha dunia nzima...
GreatThinkers mwaweza kuipangua hoja hiyo hapo.

Kama una swali lolote kuhusu biblia na maandiko uliza hapa kama lipo ndani ya uwezo wangu nitakujibu.

Thankyou

Prepared & Written by
Da'Vinci
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i admire your thinking capacity chief,
upo vizuri kwa kujenga hoja, ila haya mambo ni mazito mno...kuna mengi sana hatujaambiwa au tuliambiwa sivyo,

mimi naomba niulize au nielewe kidogo hapo kwenye idadi, kutokana na maandiko ya biblia inasemekana sensa ilikua inafanywa kwa wanaume tu, wanawake na watoto hawakuwa ktk hesabu zao hivyo inawezekana ndio imeleta huo mkanganyiko hapo wa idadi sahihi ya waIsraeli!!!

ngoja niendelee kupitia comments hapa....najua nitapata kitu.
 
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