Kuna ubaya gani Zanzibar ikajitenga na kuwa huru kama Zamani?

[mpuguso]

Mmi kama m bara naunga mkono zanzibar jitoeni maana hata sisi hatuoni umuhimu wenu kwetu. Kwa mimi mtu wa kawaida bado sijaona kitu ambacho bara wananufaika kutoka zanzibar sanasana naona kama zanzibar ndo wananufaika cause a lot of them wapo huku wanafaidi fursa zilizopo.

Hata sisi wabara wazenjibar mnatukera yakhe! ila politician wetu wanawang'ang'ania sijuio wanawataka nini atiii!!. Jitoeni basi nasi tuondokane na kero zenu kila kukicha muungano ufe muungane ufe mpaka mwatuboa yakhe

 

[MrFroasty]

MrFroasty,

Napata Kigugumizi hapa, Watanganyika wanajua mpaka kesho kuwa ASP ni chama cha kizalendo kwa huko visiwani na ndicho kilicholeta mapinduzi. ASP imekuwepo tokea mapinduzi mpaka ilipoungana na TANU 1977 na kufanya CCM. Hapa unataka kusema mpaka kipindi hicho ilikuwa haikubaliki Zanzibar? na nani alikuwa haikubali?

Tatizo la watanganyika wengi hawasafiri wanaogopa maji ya bahari hususan wale wa Dodoma, na makosa hayo hayo ndio aliyofanya Nyerere kufikiria siasa za uafrika zitafanya kazi Zanzibar.

Ndio maana nikakupa hiyo data ya 54% of total votes in 1963 elections ndio waliyoshinda ASP, walipigwa bao kwasababu sheria ya wakati ule ilikuwa ni ya kutumia seats (which you can ignore as its useless to discuss old laws at the moment).

Hili ndio moja ya sababu za Nyerere kuunganisha vyama na kukiuwa chama cha ASP (Afro Shirazi Party), kwasababu alijua Zanzibar si ya washirazi pekee.
Na hadi leo CCM haina majority visiwani humo, kwani sio generation yote iliyokuwepo kabla ya uhuru/Mapinduzi kuwa imeshaondoka.Generation ile bado ipo, na baadhi yao bado wanaendelea kupinga kuwa CCM ni mtoto wa ASP hivyo imerithi ubaguzi na wanaamini ni chama cha kishirazi.

Hapa nazungumza facts tuu...mimi sio mwana siasa.Ukitaka evidence kuwa hadi leo CCM haina 100% support tizama hata hayo matokeo ya ZEC (after heavy manipulations to steal votes)...bado CCM inashinda with very narrow margin...TOFAUTI NA TANGANYIKA!

 

[SMU]

Kwa hiyo hili suala la kuvunja muungano tunazungumzia utenganisho wa kitaifa tuu...sio utenganisho wa watu na jinsia zao kama munavyojaribu kuweka hoja hiyo.

Huwezi kuzungumzia taifa bila kuzungumzia watu!

 

[MrFroasty]

Huwezi kuzungumzia taifa bila kuzungumzia watu!

Basi USA iunganishwe na Kenya kwani Obama amechanganya damu ...
Hebu fafanua vizuri...

 

[ngoshwe]

Good huo unaitwa mchanganyiko kama mimi:
(15%/Black/Unguja+35%Mbongo+10%Mjerumani+5%Myemen+15%ComoroIslands)

Sasa sijui nijiite vipi

15% +35%+10%+5%+15% =80 (incomplete!)

Utakuwa na asili ya utata beye!.

 

[Mdondoaji]

15% +35%+10%+5%+15% =80 (incomplete!)

Utakuwa na asili ya utata beye!.

Hiyo 15% iliyobakia ilikuwa uhindi maana bibi mzaa babu alikuwa muhindi na mzaliwa wa zanzibar sasa hapo utakuta mchuzi mix yaani utata mtupu

 

[SMU]

Basi USA iunganishwe na Kenya kwani Obama amechanganya damu ...
Hebu fafanua vizuri...

Ulikuwa unajaribu kujenga hoja kuwa Unguja na Pemba haziwezi kutengania/kubaguana baada ya kujitenga na bara kwa sababu kuna mchanganyiko wa damu (ukatoa mfano wako mwenyewe wa kuchanganyika huko).

Ndio hapo nikakuuliza huoni kwa hoja hiyo hiyo ya mchanganyiko wa damu, hatupaswi kutenganisha bara na zanzibar kwa sasa!

Btw, mimi binafsi ningependa kuona mataifa mawili Zanzibar na Tanganyika. Lakini hata kama hatuutaki muungano huu, ni vema pia tukafikiria madhara ya kutengana.

 

[Elusive]

Wengi waliochangia hii thread inaonekana ni vijana wadogo ambao hawaelewi kitu kuhusu Muungano huu, wengi walikuwa hata hawajazaliwa tarehe 26 April, 1964 kwa hiyo wao huwa wanashabikia mjadala kwa kuweka jazba mbele. Na hawa wanaojiita Wazanzibari wengi wao wanaishi nje ya Tanzania kwa nini hawajitambulishi kwa utaifa wa kigeni ambao wamechukua?
Muungano lazima udumishwe kwa kweli umeleta maelewano kwa pande zote mbili. Wale wasioupenda ni watu wachache waliokata tamaa ya maisha hawa hawawezi kuridhika hata ukivunjika bado watakuwa wanalalama.

 

[SMU]

15% +35%+10%+5%+15% =80 (incomplete!)

Utakuwa na asili ya utata beye!.

Ngoshwe, wewe ni auditor? Maana naona unacheck details vilivyo!

 

[MrFroasty]

Ulikuwa unajaribu kujenga hoja kuwa Unguja na Pemba haziwezi kutengania/kubaguana baada ya kujitenga na bara kwa sababu kuna mchanganyiko wa damu (ukatoa mfano wako mwenyewe wa kuchanganyika huko).

Ndio hapo nikakuuliza huoni kwa hoja hiyo hiyo ya mchanganyiko wa damu, hatupaswi kutenganisha bara na zanzibar kwa sasa!

Btw, mimi binafsi ningependa kuona mataifa mawili Zanzibar na Tanganyika. Lakini hata kama hatuutaki muungano huu, ni vema pia tukafikiria madhara ya kutengana.

Pemba na Unguja ni nchi moja na taifa moja kwa karne nyingi kama si tokea kuanzishwa kwa taifa la Zanzibar (Tanganyika na Zanzibar vimeunganishwa miaka 40 tuu).Hivyo Pemba na Unguja haviwezi kutengana sio kwa kuchanganya damu, bali kinadharia kuwa Pemba na Unguja ni sehemu moja tokea huko awali...

Huu muungano na uzoroteshwaji wa demokrasia ndio ulioibua kubaguliwa kwa Pemba.Sio kama nawanyoosheeni vidole bali hiyo pia ni fact, kutokana na kuwa tokea Mapinduzi serekali iliyopo madarakani ilikuwa ni ya ASP (Tanganyika-Unguja based discriminating Pemba)...na hapo ndio tatizo hilo la Pemba kuanza kudai kujitenga likaanza...lakini demokrasia ikiachiwa ikafanya kazi Zanzibar hakutakuwa na tatizo lolote (kama ilivyokuwa kabla ya ukoloni wa kitanganyika kufika Zanzibar).

Hopefully you are pleased now...

 

[takashi]

Muungano ni kama ndoa

-Zanzibar ilikuwa huru kabla ya Muungano

-Tanganyika pia ilikuwa haijaungana na ncho yoyote

-Nyerere na Karume (bila ridhaa ya wananchi waliokuwa wakiwatawala) wakaona bora waunganishe nchi hizi mbili

-Huku Memorandum za Muungano zikafishwa na imefika mahala kosa kuziulizia

-Muungano umelega lega na malalamiko (hasa from visiwani kuwa uko one sided) while on the other hand Bara wanaona Zanzibar wanaishi kwa INCOME SUPPORT za wa Bara hivyo ni mzigo

-Sasa kama imeshindikana kwani kuna ubaya gani Muungano ukavunjwa na kima mmoja akarudi kuwa na nchi yake bila kuingiliana?

Ohhh jambo lingine

Je ni kweli BARA ndio wanaoungangania huu Muungano wakati VISIWANI hawana hawautaki?

Apparently kwenye mitaa ya huko visiwani kuna habari kuwa WAZANZIBARI be if CUF au CCM WANA one thing in common: HAWAUTAKI MUUNGANO lakini its politocally incorrect kusema live lakini ukweli ni kuwa wao hawautaki


kwa nini tusiwaache na visiwa vyao?

ni sawa mkuu, umeongea kweli...huu muungano wanzanzibari hawautaki. lakini unalazimishwa na ccm ya bara...naamini hata bara kuna asilimia kubwa ya watu wasioutaka huu muungano...lakini ccm wanalazimisha tu. ole wao wana ccm, siku wakishindwa uchaguzi mkuu hapo ndio itakua mwisho wa muungano.
maisha ya wazanzibari yanazidi kua magumu kila siku ,sababu ya huu muungano. mambo yote ya kiuchumi yanaamuliwa bara bila ya kujali mashlahi ya zanzibar....umeona wapi ,miaka 46 ya uhuru bado watu wanahangaika na ukosefu wa maji na umeme wa kutosha. maendeleo sio kununua rav4 au kua na mobile phone. maendeleo ya nchi ni kuhakikisha huduma muhimu za jamii zinapatikana vya kutosha...iko siku watanganyika na wao wataamka na kudai haki zao,kama vile wanzanzibari. kama muungano ni kuengezeana umasikini shida na mateso, mimi siukubali. someone tell me please, what have we gained from this so called union?

 

[Mdondoaji]

Wengi waliochangia hii thread inaonekana ni vijana wadogo ambao hawaelewi kitu kuhusu Muungano huu, wengi walikuwa hata hawajazaliwa tarehe 26 April, 1964 kwa hiyo wao huwa wanashabikia mjadala kwa kuweka jazba mbele. Na hawa wanaojiita Wazanzibari wengi wao wanaishi nje ya Tanzania kwa nini hawajitambulishi kwa utaifa wa kigeni ambao wamechukua?
Muungano lazima udumishwe kwa kweli umeleta maelewano kwa pande zote mbili. Wale wasioupenda ni watu wachache waliokata tamaa ya maisha hawa hawawezi kuridhika hata ukivunjika bado watakuwa wanalalama.

Maridhiano gani hebu tufafanulie bwana

 

[MrFroasty]

Na hawa wanaojiita Wazanzibari wengi wao wanaishi nje ya Tanzania kwa nini hawajitambulishi kwa utaifa wa kigeni ambao wamechukua?

Kwani mmarekani mweusi anaitwa vipi?African American, japokuwa karne ni nyingi tokea wahamie marekani...lakini utambulisho umebakia.Sasa sioni hoja ya msingi kwa wazanzibari kujipachika vikofia vya mataifa mengine....hiyo hubaki kwenye makaratasi tuu, lakini asili zetu zinabakia kama kawaida.

Muungano lazima udumishwe kwa kweli umeleta maelewano kwa pande zote mbili.

Hopefully maelewano hayo hujakusudia "kero za muungano"...

Wale wasioupenda ni watu wachache waliokata tamaa ya maisha hawa hawawezi kuridhika hata ukivunjika bado watakuwa wanalalama.

Hii nadharia kuwa kila anaedai haki ya utaifa wake basi analalama ningelipenda ndugu zangu tukaiweka kando katika ulimwengu wa demokrasia.Ni wakati wa Nyerere tuu au Hitler ndio watu hunyamaza kimya...maana ukitetea haki yako watu wanaku-Kolimba

Kwa hiyo tujitayarishe kwani sisi huku visiwani tushavaa jezi za kutetea uhuru, kama mutaona tunalalama ...you are deadly wrong

 

[ngoshwe]

Tatizo la watanganyika wengi hawasafiri wanaogopa maji ya bahari hususan wale wa Dodoma, na makosa hayo hayo ndio aliyofanya Nyerere kufikiria siasa za uafrika zitafanya kazi Zanzibar. Hapa nazungumza facts tuu...mimi sio mwana siasa.Ukitaka evidence kuwa hadi leo CCM haina 100% support tizama hata hayo matokeo ya ZEC (after heavy manipulations to steal votes)...bado CCM inashinda with very narrow margin...TOFAUTI NA TANGANYIKA!

HII NI SEHEMU YA HISTORIA ILIYOANDIKWA NA WASOMI WA VISIWANI (WA ZANZIBARI WENYEWE) na ambayo inadhihirisha wazi kuwa matatizo yote ya Zanzibari hayana uhusiano kabisa na Muungano na Tanganyika isipokuwa ni kati ya Wanzanzibari wenyewe kwa namna moja au nyingine. Historia hii hayaonyeshi kuwa hata Upinzani ukishika utawala wa nchi au Muungano kuvunjika, Zanzibar kutakuwa ni shwari au nchi ya amani kuliko ilivyo sasa!.

Zanzibar was given full independence in December 10, 1963. The first government was formed by a coaliton of ZNP and ZPPP. Sheikh Mohammed Shamte, of the ZPPP became the first prime minister of an independent Zanzibar. The Sultan, at the time Jamshid ibn Abdullah, remained as the head of state the move that was vehemently protested by ASP. On December 16, 1963, Prime Minister Mohammed Shamte, as the head of the independent and sovereign goverment of Zanzibar, delivered what was to be a historic speech to the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

A few weeks later, January 12, 1964, the conservative government was overthrown in a bloody revolution led by John Okello and replaced by a leftist regime under Sheikh Abeid Amani Karume (1905-72). Immediately after the revolution, Karume signed a pact with Nyerere uniting Zanzibar and Tanganyika to form The United Republic of Tanzania. (JAPO KARUME ALITAKA MUUNGANO LAKINI BADO ALITAKA ZANZIBAR IENDELEE KUTAMBULIKA KAMA NCHI)

The government following the revolution of Zanzibar of 1964 leaned more towards the claim of Africans being the true natives and at the beginning of its rule it abolished all claims of the Shirazis.The marxist revolutionary government confiscated all the major private property and went on to re-destribute the land to the poor by offering each individual a 3-acre plot. Karume's vision was to build a country where all people will have free housing, free medical care, and live under subsidized supplies of food, clothing and energy.Karume ordered free education to all but he was not happy with many of his intellectuals and it is believed that he ordered their liquidation.
There was also a period when the government stopped importation of food and encouraged self reliance. .......

There were however those who could not take it anymore and on April 7 1972, they attempted to overthrow the revolutionary government but only managed to assasinate the president. Ironically, Karume was killed by his Arabic brother-in-law to what many believe is a revenge for the formers role in his father's death.(JAPO KARUME ALIKUWA NA NIA YA KUWAINUA NA KUWAKOMBOA WAZANZIBARI, LAKINI WAPO WALIOONA HAFAI WAKAMUUA)

Aboud Jumbe took over after Karume's death and the public hoped for an end to the past. His administration was a little bit softer than that of his predecessor but being under the leadership of the Revolutionary Council, he had to adopt some hardline policies, when it mattered, at the request of his colleagues. His decade in power was characterized by too much leaning to the mainland and in 1977 he championed the union between ASP and the Tanganyika African National Union (TANU) of the mainland to form the Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM), a party that continue to rule until now. (JUMBE HAKUWA MTANGANYIKA, ALIKUJA BAADA YA KARUME LAKINI ALIFUATA MTAZAMO WA KARUME WA KUUNGANISHA NCHI KWA KUKUBALI KUUNGANIUSHA VYAMA KWA KUWA ALIONA MANUFAA YAKE)


On the social side, people had some freedom and could travel freely to the outer world. Jumbe also opened up mainland educational institutions for Zanzibaris wishing to pursue higher education. This move created many possibilities for Zanzibaris to go beyond the teaching career that was the only available option for many.

In 1979, Jumbe made history by launching the first democratic institution, the House of Representatives but members were mainly appointed instead of being elected by the people at large. He also opened up his administration for people, who could otherwise have been kept out if the strict revolutionary principles were followed.


The elections of 1990 that brought Dr. Salmin Amour Juma to power were marred by poor turn out and rather than seeking for a solution, the incumbent went on to suspend most civil servants who were known to have caused that poor showing. Dr. Salmin or "Komandoo, as popularly referred, ruled with an iron fist and terrorized his opponents with arrests and even torture. (SALIMIN SIO MTANGANYIKA, WALA HAKUWA MWENYEKITI WA CCM, LAKINI ALIENDESHA NCHI VILE ALIVYOONA INAFAA KWAKE)


While we are waiting for the developments toward the 2005 election, Zanzibaris from all over the world are praying for peace and stability. However, much remains to be seen particularly from the Revolutionary government who continue to suppress the media and appear to be preparing ground for a new kind of confrontation (DR. A.A KARUME SI MTANGANYIKA, NI MTOTO WA MAREHEMU KARUME, ANAJUA BABAE ALITAKA NINI JAPO NI MAKAMU WA CCM, LAKINI ANA MADARAKA YOTE YA KUAMUA JUU YA MAENDELEO YA ZANZIBARI KWA KUWA YEYE NI RAIS HURU WA ZANZIBAR ILIYO HURU).

http://www.zanzinet.org/zanzibar/history/historia.html

 

[takashi]

Huu ni uchochezi na ubaguzi! Shame on you!

iko siku utaamka katika huwo usingizi mzito...if not, then you are dead man walking...
badala ya kuishikilia zanzibar waambie ,makamba , kikwete, chilingiti ,pinda na wengineo kama bara kuna mikoa ambayo inahitaji kuangaliwa ,zanzibaris can look after themselves...

 

[MrFroasty]

HII NI SEHEMU YA HISTORIA ILIYOANDIKWA NA WASOMI WA VISIWANI (WA ZANZIBARI WENYEWE) na ambayo inadhihirisha wazi kuwa matatizo yote ya Zanzibari hayana uhusiano kabisa na Muungano na Tanganyika isipokuwa ni kati ya Wanzanzibari wenyewe kwa namna moja au nyingine. Historia hii hayaonyeshi kuwa hata Upinzani ukishika utawala wa nchi au Muungano kuvunjika, Zanzibar kutakuwa ni shwari au nchi ya amani kuliko ilivyo sasa!.

Sasa ASP si kilikuwa chama kidogo cha Nyerere na kilikuwa na makao makuu yake hapo Dar....shughuli zote za ASP zilikuwa na mkono wa Nyerere...Makomandoo wengi(sio wote) wa Mapinduzi walitoka Bara...kwa kumuekea heshima (musije nirushia mawe) nitasema Nyerere hakushiriki kuyapanga hayo Mapinduzi.

Tutaendelea kusema kama tulivyosomeshwa maskuli ati wakwezi na wakulima na mapanga walipindua serekali yenye silaha...

But we can hardly believe that he was that innocent after all those clues that he was the genius behind closed doors of the ASP.

 

[ngoshwe]

Sasa ASP si kilikuwa chama kidogo cha Nyerere na kilikuwa na makao makuu yake hapo Dar....shughuli zote za ASP zilikuwa na mkono wa Nyerere...Makomandoo wengi(sio wote) wa Mapinduzi walitoka Bara...kwa kumuekea heshima (musije nirushia mawe) nitasema Nyerere hakushiriki kuyapanga hayo Mapinduzi.

Hiyo historia imeandikwa wapi?....Na kulikuwa na uhusiano gani wa kabla ya Mapinduzi kati ya Mshirazi/Mngazija/ Mtumbatu/ Mbajuni/ Mgunya na Mmatumbi au Mzanaki???

Lete Data zenye ukweli hapa tuongee lugha moja bana!

haya ndo waliyoandikwa Wanzibari kuhusu huko nami nayachukulia yalivyo na kweli kweli tupu kwa kuwa walioandika wanayajua vizuri:

......Some allege that the govermnent used foreign currency to import large arsenals of weapon in preparation for the eventual pull out of Nyerere's support. It is claimed that the union was originally planned for only 10 years and was to end in 1974. Security agents, the army and the ASP volunteers hunted those who attempted to smuggle food into the islands. Stories from people who experienced this ordeal would make you shed tears. Life was hard and unbearable and another wave of emigrants left the islands in search of lush pastures elsewhere.http://www.zanzinet.org/zanzibar/history/historia.html

 

[Mdondoaji]

HII NI SEHEMU YA HISTORIA ILIYOANDIKWA NA WASOMI WA VISIWANI (WA ZANZIBARI WENYEWE) na ambayo inadhihirisha wazi kuwa matatizo yote ya Zanzibari hayana uhusiano kabisa na Muungano na Tanganyika isipokuwa ni kati ya Wanzanzibari wenyewe kwa namna moja au nyingine. Historia hii hayaonyeshi kuwa hata Upinzani ukishika utawala wa nchi au Muungano kuvunjika, Zanzibar kutakuwa ni shwari au nchi ya amani kuliko ilivyo sasa!.

Umejuaje kama amani iliyopo ni matokeo ya mikwala na vitisho kwa baadhi ya watu zanzibar? Likewise inawezekana amani iliyopo ni as result of a disguise attempt by union government kujifanya wanatusaidia kutuunganisha kumbe wanatugawa.


Na mmejuaje kuwa wakiachiwa zanzibar haitakuwa na amani kwani nyie ni waungu? mbona rwanda sasa wanamani kila mtu na heshima zake na nchi inapiga hatua iweje zanzibar????

 

[MrFroasty]

Hiyo historia imeandikwa wapi?....Na kulikuwa na uhusiano gani wa kabla ya Mapinduzi kati ya Mshirazi/Mngazija/ Mtumbatu/ Mbajuni/ Mgunya na Mmatumbi au Mzanaki???

Lete Data zenye ukweli hapa tuongee lugha moja bana!

Huo ninaokueleza ni ukweli mtupu, tatizo lako umekunywa sana kasumba za Nyerere.Anyways nilishawahi kuipaste hapa JF makala hii, hivyo sitoipaste tena bali ukipenda kwenye kiungo hiki kuisoma http://www.mzalendo.net/historia-ya-siasa-za-zanzibar

Jaribu kuisoma hiyo makala vizuri unaweza pata baadhi ya majibu mengi....Zanzibar walikuwa wanaishi vizuri tuu, mgawanyiko huo wa Zanzibar umekuja kutoka nje na umeshabikiwa na baadhi ya wazanzibari kwa ubinafsi wao.

Hili tatizo la divide and rule ya mkoloni kila corner lipo Tutsi-Hutus etc....

 

[MWANALUGALI]

Hivi srikali ya muungano ndiyo amewashawishi wauze hotel ya Bwawani 9 Which was supposed to be a pride to Zanzibar) kwa kubadilishana na chakula??? Hivi serikali ya JMT ndiyo inasimamia kudorola kwa kilimo na viwanda zanzibar? jamani wanzenj, matatizo ya visiwa venu yako huko huko! mtafuteni mchawi wenu huko huko wala hayuko kwenye muungano wallah!