JK kapotoshwa kuhusu tarehe aliyokuja Nelson Mandela mwaka 1962??


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Nikupateje

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Tukiwa tunaendelea kuangalia funeral rites za Nelson Mandela, mliosikiliza hotuba ya JK ni kwamba kaeleza umati kwamba Mandela alifika Tanganyika kwa mara ya kwanza January 1962. Kwamba safari hiyo alikuja kisiri akipitia Mbeya na kuingia Tanganyika. Kisha akapewa passport ya Tanzania kusafiria.

Hapa ndipo tunaposema viongoziwetu hawapekui vitabu au documents au hata kukumbuka tu. Ukweli ni kwamba histroia haisemi hivyo. Historia inasema kwamba January 1962 ulikuwa ni mweiz mmoja tu tangu Tangayika ijitawale ikiwa na Prime Minister Nyerere. Tukio kuu la kihistoria ni kwamba Huo mwezi karibi wiki mbili zilitawaliwa na NEC ya TANU ambayo ilipomalizika Nyerere akajiuzulu u-Prime Minister na akamuachia Rashid Kawawa.

Gavana-General Richard Turnbull asingeweza kutoa passport Nelson Mandela kirahisi.

Ukweli kuhusu ujio wa Mandela ni kwamba alikuja hapa December 1962, yaani mwaka huohuo, na akawepo kushuhudia Tanganyika ikipata status ya Republic. Hapo ndipo angeweza kupata passport ya Tanganyika na ndicho kilichotokea.

Sikuweza kuamini JK alipokuwa anasoma zile tarehe mbele ya dunia nzima, kwa sababu mtu aliyechimubka historia ya Mandela kokote ilikoandikwa anajua wazi kwamba Mandela alikuja hapa December 1962.

Na hata Mandela kwenye kitabu chake alichoandika kiitwacho A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345: {..we arrived in Dar Es Salaam the next day and I met Julius Nyerere, the newly independent country's firss President..}

Hivyo, wakati ule asingemkuta Nyerere akiwa President, na wakati pekee alipokuwa President ni kuanzia December 09, 1962.

Tuwe tunasoma kabla ya kwenda public.

----------------------------

Mkuu Nikupateje,
Nafikiri kwenye hili wewe ndio umekosea na kumbukumbu yako haiko sahihi.

Histroria inaonyesha Mandela aliondoka SA kwa kujificha tarehe 11/01/1962 kwa safari yenye lengo la kuzitembelea nchi nyingi za Afrika.

July 1962 Mandela alipewa pistol na General Tadesse Birru na kipindi hicho hicho ndio alifundishwa namna ya kutumia risasi na kulipua mabomu usiku bila kukamatwa. Hiyo ilikuwa July 1962 kabla ya kurudi kwao SA. Wakati huo alikuwa anatumia passport ya TZ.

Pia historia inaonyesha waliruka kwa ndege kutokea SA au nje kidogo ya SA, sina uhakika sana hapo na kutua Mbeya. Hiyo ilikuwa baada ya tarehe 11/01/1962. kwahiyo kwa vyovyote walikuwa Dar January hiyo hiyo ya 1962.

Safari ya mandela ilikuwa kuhudhuria mkutano wa Pan-African Freedom Movement for East, Central and Southern Africa (PAFMECSA), ambao ulikuwa unafanyika February 1962 huko Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

Kwahiyo ni kweli Mandela aliiingia TZ January 1961.
Kitabu cha Mandela nilichokinukuu ni kile alichokiandika mwenyewe (auto-biograph). Narudia tena kama hamkusoma my original post kitabu chenyewe ni hiki {Long Walk To Freedom, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345}.

Kumbuka kwamba unaponibishia basi hunibishii mimi bali unambishia na kusmema kwamba Mandela alikuwa muongo alidanganya ulimwengu kwenye ukurasa huu kuhusu ziara hii!

Na nyinyi someni ukurasa huo kabla ya kumtetea JK aliyekosea. Lakini mnapomtetea basi leteni source za mnayotetea kama nilivyofanya mimi. Mimi source yangu ni kauli ya Mandela mwenyewe, kweny ekitabu hicho kwenye ukurasa huo. Je, mnaobisha na washabiki wenu source yenu ni nini zaidi ya kututajia tarehe tu.
Mkuu Nikupateje,
Ukikosea jambo unasema nimekosea na ndio uungwana.

Mandela alikuwa anaenda kwenye mkutano wa Pan-African Freedom Movement for East, Central and Southern Africa (PAFMECSA) ambao ulikuwa unafanyika Addis Ababa, Ethiopia mwezi wa pili, 1962. Hiyo disemba yako mzee Madiba alisharudi SA.

Argument yako ina make sense logically lakini haiko sahihi. Mandela alipewa passport ya TZ mwezi January 1962.

In fact Mandela alikamatwa SA tarehe 5 August 1962. kwahiyo hiyo Disemba unayoisema, mzee Madiba alikuwa ndani.
Mkuu wangu, Akili za kuambiwa si vibaya ukachanganya na za kwako.....

Mbona ukweli uko dhahiri kwamba Nelson Mandela aliingia Tanzania January, 1962 kupitia Mbeya akitokea Lusaka....Na lengo la safari yake lilikuwa ni kwenda Ethiopia kuhudhuria mkutano uliofanyika Februari, 1962....

Inawezekana kweli kwenye Kitabu chake aliandika alikutana na Rais wa kwanza wa Tanzania J.K Nyerere badala ya kuandika Waziri Mkuu wa kwanza wa Tanzania kimakosa....Na wewe badala ya kudhani Mandela amekosea kwenye Autobiography yake moja kwa moja unadhani Rais Kikwete amekosea na unamtwisha tuhuma za kudangaya na kudai amepotoshwa.......

Jaribu kuchanganya akili za kwenye 'A long walk to Freedom' na za kwako, utapata jibu zuri tu...
 
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Ndio siku mikataba yetu yoote ya Madini iwekwe wazi,tutadharaulika na ulimwengu mzima,kama hatuna Wasomi na washauri wa maraisi,,achilia mbali Baraza la mawaziri!!
 
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Bahati mbaya sijaisikiliza hotuba yake. Ila kama kuna maelezo hayo basi ni dosari kubwa kwenye hotuba yake na imekwisha ingia kasoro maana imepingana na historia ya kweli.
Nilishahisi,Sisi wa TZ ukiona kitu kinapigiwa kelele ya misifa lazima mwishoe kiwe na kasoro.
 
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Tukiwa tunaendelea kuangalia funeral rites za Nelson Mandela, mliosikiliza hotuba ya JK ni kwamba kaeleza umati kwamba Mandela alifika Tanganyika kwa mara ya kwanza January 1962. Kwamba safari hiyo alikuja kisiri akipitia Mbeya na kuingia Tanganyika. Kisha akapewa passport ya Tanzania kusafiria.

Hapa ndipo tunaposema viongoziwetu hawapekui vitabu au documents au hata kukumbuka tu. Ukweli ni kwamba histroia haisemi hivyo. Historia inasema kwamba January 1962 ulikuwa ni mweiz mmoja tu tangu Tangayika ijitawale ikiwa na Prime Minister Nyerere. Tukio kuu la kihistoria ni kwamba Huo mwezi karibi wiki mbili zilitawaliwa na NEC ya TANU ambayo ilipomalizika Nyerere akajiuzulu u-Prime Minister na akamuachia Rashid Kawawa.

Gavana-General Richard Turnbull asingeweza kutoa passport Nelson Mandela kirahisi.

Ukweli kuhusu ujio wa Mandela ni kwamba alikuja hapa December 1962, yaani mwaka huohuo, na akawepo kushuhudia Tanganyika ikipata status ya Republic. Hapo ndipo angeweza kupata passport ya Tanganyika na ndicho kilichotokea.

Sikuweza kuamini JK alipokuwa anasoma zile tarehe mbele ya dunia nzima, kwa sababu mtu aliyechimubka historia ya Mandela kokote ilikoandikwa anajua wazi kwamba Mandela alikuja hapa December 1962.

Na hata Mandela kwenye kitabu chake alichoandika kiitwacho A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345: {..we arrived in Dar Es Salaam the next day and I met Julius Nyerere, the newly independent country's firss President..}

Hivyo, wakati ule asingemkuta Nyerere akiwa President, na wakati pekee alipokuwa President ni kuanzia December 09, 1962.

Tuwe tunasoma kabla ya kwenda public.
Waandaaji wa kizazi hiki do not trouble themselves to dig history and to read books, it is so sad
 
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Vitu vingine vinatufanya tuonekane mazuzu, kwani rais huwa haipitii kwanza hotuba kabla ya kuisoma hadharani? Sasa washauri wake kazi zao ni nini?
 
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gulio

gulio

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Kama hali ndiyo hii we don't keep proper record.
 
Fede Masolwa

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Fede Masolwa

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Kaz hipo kama ndio hivyo sasa, but mkubwa hakosei eti.. Mhimu ni yeye kusoma vizur historia na waandaaji wa hotuba yake wawe makini pia, na ndio madhara ya kada kupewa kazi ya uaandaji hotuba wataalam wanaachwa
 
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swali la kizushi(though me sio msaliti kwa nchi yangu,naunga mkono hotuba coz inatuwakilisha kama taifa na kuonyesha ushiriki wetu katika ukombozi wa afrika),just thinking hivi kama tuna viongozi wanaoandikiwa tu hotuba na wao wanakwenda kuisoma kama ilivyo bila kuihakiki(which i think ni kitu rahisi sana kukifanya) itakuwaje siku unachomekewa jambo ambalo ni la kuiumiza nchi itakuwaje?i believe hii inatokea sana kwenye hiyo mikataba wanayosaini hawa viongozi wetu vichwa maji.
 
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Bahati mbaya, vaa viatu vyake. Aidha ni ulimi kuteleza au printing error
 
vipik2

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vipik2

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Yaelekea waandishi wake ni waheshimiwa sana lakini akili zao ni kama za Kapuya
 
sikajiji

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sikajiji

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Tukiwa tunaendelea kuangalia funeral rites za Nelson Mandela, mliosikiliza hotuba ya JK ni kwamba kaeleza umati kwamba Mandela alifika Tanganyika kwa mara ya kwanza January 1962. Kwamba safari hiyo alikuja kisiri akipitia Mbeya na kuingia Tanganyika. Kisha akapewa passport ya Tanzania kusafiria.

Hapa ndipo tunaposema viongoziwetu hawapekui vitabu au documents au hata kukumbuka tu. Ukweli ni kwamba histroia haisemi hivyo. Historia inasema kwamba January 1962 ulikuwa ni mweiz mmoja tu tangu Tangayika ijitawale ikiwa na Prime Minister Nyerere. Tukio kuu la kihistoria ni kwamba Huo mwezi karibi wiki mbili zilitawaliwa na NEC ya TANU ambayo ilipomalizika Nyerere akajiuzulu u-Prime Minister na akamuachia Rashid Kawawa.

Gavana-General Richard Turnbull asingeweza kutoa passport Nelson Mandela kirahisi.

Ukweli kuhusu ujio wa Mandela ni kwamba alikuja hapa December 1962, yaani mwaka huohuo, na akawepo kushuhudia Tanganyika ikipata status ya Republic. Hapo ndipo angeweza kupata passport ya Tanganyika na ndicho kilichotokea.

Sikuweza kuamini JK alipokuwa anasoma zile tarehe mbele ya dunia nzima, kwa sababu mtu aliyechimubka historia ya Mandela kokote ilikoandikwa anajua wazi kwamba Mandela alikuja hapa December 1962.

Na hata Mandela kwenye kitabu chake alichoandika kiitwacho A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345: {..we arrived in Dar Es Salaam the next day and I met Julius Nyerere, the newly independent country's firss President..}

Hivyo, wakati ule asingemkuta Nyerere akiwa President, na wakati pekee alipokuwa President ni kuanzia December 09, 1962.

Tuwe tunasoma kabla ya kwenda public.
Tuwe tuna-edit kabla ya ku-post: "viongoziwetu", "karibi" "firss President".
Nakupataje naomba utupatie chanzo cha nukuu yako kuwa Mandela alifika Tanganyika Disemba 1962. kwani kwa mwajibu wa maandiko mengi nilioyapitia yanataja mwaka tu yaani 1962. mfano ni 1. A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533. 2. Africa and the West, By Godfrey Mwakikagile pp. xv: ISBN 1-56072-840-x. Kumbuka pia maelezo ya Mheshiwa Rais si lazima yawe yote yanatokana na historia iliyoandikwa, sehemu kubwa ya Historia haijaandikwa hiyo yaweza kuwa pia ni chanzo kizuri cha Historia. Mimi nilifikiri ni vema kujiuliza chanzo cha kile alichokisema/alichokisoma JK ni nini? Kabla ya kukimbilia kudai eti kapotoshwa. Sidhani kama speech yake yatokana na source moja. Kumbuka kuna watanzania wakati huo watanganyika walikutana na Marehemu Madiba na kula naye, kufanya naye kazi nk. Na pia kuna wako waliofanya naye kazi kwa karibu sana kama Ullekh NP: Who was the first Speaker of Parliament of independent South Africa and an ANC veteran, was a close associate of Nelson Mandela.
 
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Mkuu Nikupateje,
Nafikiri kwenye hili wewe ndio umekosea na kumbukumbu yako haiko sahihi.

Histroria inaonyesha Mandela aliondoka SA kwa kujificha tarehe 11/01/1962 kwa safari yenye lengo la kuzitembelea nchi nyingi za Afrika.

July 1962 Mandela alipewa pistol na General Tadesse Birru na kipindi hicho hicho ndio alifundishwa namna ya kutumia risasi na kulipua mabomu usiku bila kukamatwa. Hiyo ilikuwa July 1962 kabla ya kurudi kwao SA. Wakati huo alikuwa anatumia passport ya TZ.

Pia historia inaonyesha waliruka kwa ndege kutokea SA au nje kidogo ya SA, sina uhakika sana hapo na kutua Mbeya. Hiyo ilikuwa baada ya tarehe 11/01/1962. kwahiyo kwa vyovyote walikuwa Dar January hiyo hiyo ya 1962.

Safari ya mandela ilikuwa kuhudhuria mkutano wa Pan-African Freedom Movement for East, Central and Southern Africa (PAFMECSA), ambao ulikuwa unafanyika February 1962 huko Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

Kwahiyo ni kweli Mandela aliiingia TZ January 1961.


Tukiwa tunaendelea kuangalia funeral rites za Nelson Mandela, mliosikiliza hotuba ya JK ni kwamba kaeleza umati kwamba Mandela alifika Tanganyika kwa mara ya kwanza January 1962. Kwamba safari hiyo alikuja kisiri akipitia Mbeya na kuingia Tanganyika. Kisha akapewa passport ya Tanzania kusafiria.

Hapa ndipo tunaposema viongoziwetu hawapekui vitabu au documents au hata kukumbuka tu. Ukweli ni kwamba histroia haisemi hivyo. Historia inasema kwamba January 1962 ulikuwa ni mweiz mmoja tu tangu Tangayika ijitawale ikiwa na Prime Minister Nyerere. Tukio kuu la kihistoria ni kwamba Huo mwezi karibi wiki mbili zilitawaliwa na NEC ya TANU ambayo ilipomalizika Nyerere akajiuzulu u-Prime Minister na akamuachia Rashid Kawawa.

Gavana-General Richard Turnbull asingeweza kutoa passport Nelson Mandela kirahisi.

Ukweli kuhusu ujio wa Mandela ni kwamba alikuja hapa December 1962, yaani mwaka huohuo, na akawepo kushuhudia Tanganyika ikipata status ya Republic. Hapo ndipo angeweza kupata passport ya Tanganyika na ndicho kilichotokea.

Sikuweza kuamini JK alipokuwa anasoma zile tarehe mbele ya dunia nzima, kwa sababu mtu aliyechimubka historia ya Mandela kokote ilikoandikwa anajua wazi kwamba Mandela alikuja hapa December 1962.

Na hata Mandela kwenye kitabu chake alichoandika kiitwacho A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345: {..we arrived in Dar Es Salaam the next day and I met Julius Nyerere, the newly independent country's firss President..}

Hivyo, wakati ule asingemkuta Nyerere akiwa President, na wakati pekee alipokuwa President ni kuanzia December 09, 1962.

Tuwe tunasoma kabla ya kwenda public.
 
makoye78

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Hata rais ana-cook data? Ama kweli Tanzania ya wasanii!
 
sikajiji

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sikajiji

sikajiji

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swali la kizushi(though me sio msaliti kwa nchi yangu,naunga mkono hotuba coz inatuwakilisha kama taifa na kuonyesha ushiriki wetu katika ukombozi wa afrika),just thinking hivi kama tuna viongozi wanaoandikiwa tu hotuba na wao wanakwenda kuisoma kama ilivyo bila kuihakiki(which i think ni kitu rahisi sana kukifanya) itakuwaje siku unachomekewa jambo ambalo ni la kuiumiza nchi itakuwaje?i believe hii inatokea sana kwenye hiyo mikataba wanayosaini hawa viongozi wetu vichwa maji.
ame-derive na kufikia conclusion kuhusu mwezi na tarehe hakuna andiko linasema mandela alifika disemba 1962. Atuletee kama lipo. Isitoshe sehemu kubwa ya historia haijaandikwa hiyo si lazima kutegemea written source tu ni upotoshaji.
 
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Tuwe tuna-edit kabla ya ku-post: "viongoziwetu", "karibi" "firss President".
Nakupataje naomba utupatie chanzo cha nukuu yako kuwa Mandela alifika Tanganyika Disemba 1962. kwani kwa mwajibu wa maandiko mengi nilioyapitia yanataja mwaka tu yaani 1962. mfano ni 1. A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533. 2. Africa and the West, By Godfrey Mwakikagile pp. xv: ISBN 1-56072-840-x. Kumbuka pia maelezo ya Mheshiwa Rais si lazima yawe yote yanatokana na historia iliyoandikwa, sehemu kubwa ya Historia haijaandikwa hiyo yaweza kuwa pia ni chanzo kizuri cha Historia. Mimi nilifikiri ni vema kujiuliza chanzo cha kile alichokisema/alichokisoma JK ni nini? Kabla ya kukimbilia kudai eti kapotoshwa. Sidhani kama speech yake yatokana na source moja. Kumbuka kuna watanzania wakati huo watanganyika walikutana na Marehemu Madiba na kula naye, kufanya naye kazi nk. Na pia kuna wako waliofanya naye kazi kwa karibu sana kama Ullekh NP: Who was the first Speaker of Parliament of independent South Africa and an ANC veteran, was a close associate of Nelson Mandela.
Sa wewe unataka kutueleza nini? Mleta mada amekupa facts za kumfanya Mandela apate Pass ya Tanganyika na ukweli ni kwamba hasingeweza kuipata January 1962 kama alivyosoma JK. PERIOD
 
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Mtanzania

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Mkuu,
Mwanzilishi wa thread hii amekosea; Mandela alifika TZ kupitia Mbeya, January 1962. Alikuwa anaenda kwenye mkutano, Ethiopia, ambao ulikuwa unafanyika February 1962.

ame-derive na kufikia conclusion kuhusu mwezi na tarehe hakuna andiko linasema mandela alifika disemba 1962. Atuletee kama lipo. Isitoshe sehemu kubwa ya historia haijaandikwa hiyo si lazima kutegemea written source tu ni upotoshaji.
 
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mm nimesikia akisema ilikuwa ziara ya siri, je mleta mada hiyo uliyosema ni ziara ya wazi au ilikuwaje? km ilikuwa ya siri basi waliojua ni TANU pekee, lkn sipingani na Maelezo yako bali ufafanuzi unahitajika iwapo ziara uliyoisema nayo ilikuwa siri
 

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