Instantaneous action at a distance | JamiiForums | The Home of Great Thinkers

# Instantaneous action at a distance

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Pundit, Nov 30, 2008.

1. ### PunditJF-Expert Member

#1
Nov 30, 2008
Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Messages: 3,741
Likes Received: 25
Trophy Points: 135
The nature of happennings in the universe is such that, all actions take time.

If you run to your school one km away, at the speed of 12 km/hr you will get there in five minutes.

Even the light from our local star, the sun, takes about 8 minutes and 18 seconds, depending on the position of the earth in it's orbit.

The speed of light being 299,792,458 m/s, if your light switch is 10m from the bulb and you have some device to precisely time the amount of time taken by light to travel from the light bulb to where you will be standing by the light switch, you will find light takes approximately some 10 nanoseconds to travel 10m.

And from Einstein's theory of relativity it has been established so far, that the speed of light is the speed barrier of the universe.That no information can travel faster than the speed of light.In fact for the case of matter, no matter with a positive rest mass can even attain the speed of light because the more any matter approaches the speed of light, however minuscule the amount of matter be, the more the mass of that matter will approach infinity.

Yet, the symmetric nature of the universe allow for twin particles to exhibit what is known as "weird action at a distance".

We have established that, light takes about 10 nano seconds to traverse 10m.So anything that can cause action at 10 m in less than 10 nanoseconds must act faster than the speed of light.Yet we know that there is nothing documented that can travel at any speed exceeding the speed of light, what happens when this "weird action at a distance happen"?

To put this in perspective, if there are two paricles with the required symmetry (sort of like twin particles or mirror images of each other, if you like) and these particles are separated in space by a million light years, usually the fastest transmission of information can traverse between them in a million years, because light (electromagnetic waves to be precise) if maintaining the maximum speed can travel a million years to cover a million light years, a light year being the unit of distance light will take to travel in one year.

But yet what normally would take a million years, seems to happen instantaneously.What happens here? What tells the other particle a million years away that your far off twin has changed direction, or spin?

Is the speed of light really the speed barrier of nature of we are just limited by our knowledge? Does the tachyon, a speculated particle with negative rest mass, and that can only travel at speeds faster than that of light, really exist?

Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
2. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#2
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0

Hapa yahitaji kufanya zoezi!

3. ### ZakumiJF-Expert Member

#3
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Sep 24, 2008
Messages: 4,817
Likes Received: 328
Trophy Points: 180
You are a Nerd

4. ### PunditJF-Expert Member

#4
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Messages: 3,741
Likes Received: 25
Trophy Points: 135
"Nerdiness" imetokea wapi tena?

5. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#5
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0

Thank you! should I say more?

6. ### PunditJF-Expert Member

#6
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Messages: 3,741
Likes Received: 25
Trophy Points: 135
Is the nerd used here a compliment or a smirch?

7. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#7
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0

I don't care as far as as a man never stand for a woman's comment. I know is a smirch. Have you a ever seen a comment like that directed to a man? at least for a thread of which you can not bwabwaja any thing like this.

8. ### PunditJF-Expert Member

#8
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Messages: 3,741
Likes Received: 25
Trophy Points: 135
Ningependa kuona interest kwenye swali zaidi kuliko innuendos, ina maana hatuna kitu kuhusu mada?

9. ### ZakumiJF-Expert Member

#9
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Sep 24, 2008
Messages: 4,817
Likes Received: 328
Trophy Points: 180
A compliment, nuting much.

10. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#10
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0
Naogopa kupost, isijekuwa tabu bure! endeleeni waume.

11. ### ZakumiJF-Expert Member

#11
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Sep 24, 2008
Messages: 4,817
Likes Received: 328
Trophy Points: 180
Mama:

Samahani sana kwa posti yangu. Naomba unisamehe. Mi ni msomaji mzuri sana wa posti zako (your number one fan).

Hila topic aliyoweka Pundit imenizidi kimo.

12. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#12
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0
Kwenda zako huko, sina ushabiki hapa. Sitaki watu wenye rangi za kinyonga, wenye tabia za panya kuuma na kupuliza. Hii sio mara yako ya kwanza kunitease. Adolescence kwangu ilipita miongo kadhaa iliyopita, so watch your steps.

13. ### ZakumiJF-Expert Member

#13
Dec 1, 2008
Joined: Sep 24, 2008
Messages: 4,817
Likes Received: 328
Trophy Points: 180
Niliku-tease kwa sababu uliniita CUF pamoja na ku-protest kwangu.

14. ### Azimio JipyaJF-Expert Member

#14
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Messages: 3,370
Likes Received: 14
Trophy Points: 135
Pundit.

Hii ni kigongo kweli kweli...

One has to seatdown and do some study...Nitarudi.

But I really liked the chalenge!

15. ### AmaniGKJF-Expert Member

#15
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Messages: 1,101
Likes Received: 28
Trophy Points: 145
Pundit nimekunyanyulia mikono mzee..... Hapo hata chembe sigusi nita iprint nikaikeshee

16. ### PunditJF-Expert Member

#16
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Messages: 3,741
Likes Received: 25
Trophy Points: 135
Any takers?

How did I travel to the future and know this thread would be this insoluble? Or did I?

17. ### ZakumiJF-Expert Member

#17
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Sep 24, 2008
Messages: 4,817
Likes Received: 328
Trophy Points: 180
Wewe sio Ronald L. Mallett anatengeneza Time Traveler machine ?
Home Page of Ronald L. Mallett

18. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#18
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0
In general, position and momentum of a particle at any particular time affect the instatenous action at a distance or length. When one body (of any mass) moves, the movement instantly and immediately affects all the others bodies and is affected by them, reciprocally. This disturbs the dynamic equilibrium of the bodies in to distinct trajectories.
Light travels at the fastest speed in nature.

No experimental evidence that the tachyon exists (Feinberg, 1997).

19. ### PunditJF-Expert Member

#19
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Messages: 3,741
Likes Received: 25
Trophy Points: 135

Mama,

If you say that an action can happen and cause and effect instantly and immediately, if at all you mean a scientific "instantly", you are saying that an action can cause a reaction at speeds that are faster than the speed of light.

Then you go on to establish that light travels at the fastest speed in nature.

The questioning point of this thread is that, instantaneous action at a distance, whose posibility you seem to support, cannot happen without violating the speed of light barrier.

Either there is a way to get around the speed of light barrier, possibly an unknown phenomena, or plainly the speed of light is not the speed barrier of the universe.

If a particle disintegrate in our region of the universe, and it's mirror image particle does the same almost instantly in some region of the universe 100 light years away, and this is not random, then I will question the speed of light being the speed barrier.This is because if the speed of light was truly the speed barrier, because light can travel one light year in a year and would take 100 years to travel 100 light years, it would be absurd to see the reaction happenning instantly where it was supposed to take at least 100 years.

This is like having a cousin 30 km away in a country where the fastest mode of communication is 5 km/hr, and yet when you send a letter to the cousin, the cousin receives the letter not in the expected 6 hours, but in a second.

You will be tempted to think there is some emailing going on there, wouldn't you?

20. ### MamaJF-Expert Member

#20
Dec 2, 2008
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Messages: 2,858
Likes Received: 20
Trophy Points: 0
Pundit

The explanations and what u a asking for seem contradictory, may be we go step by step. Ok, Tell me more about Einstein's theory of relativity before I proceed to confusing you.