If our President has more than one wife: The question of human rights

[Kinyambiss]

If that were to happen. 80% of the Rural inhabitants watakuwa subject to pressure from the community leaders, husbands, Clan ealders etc.. So in reality the vote will be a between the secular minded modern generation minus the muslims who are in general very volatile when it comes to issues that contravene their Quranic rights of practice in this case, as adopted by the Law of Marriage Act s.9.. Kutakuwa na an organized lobby by Islamic organizations and politicization of the issue. Muslim politicians will fear backlash and oppose the idea.. Itakuwa ni chaos tuu.

My aim is not to raise religious points hapa, but to simply highlight the fact that organizations such as BAKWATA would never allow this type of thing to happen bila kupiga makelele yaajabu.. Ni tatizo kubwa. So the practicality of this kind of argument is difficult, near enough impossible. This was my original argument. Uislamu utapose a major bottleneck to the adaptation of monogamous marriages. Its a right that they have, even those who do not exercise it will revolt kwasababu basically what you are suggesting makes illegal practice that is sanctioned by their source of law. Sisemi kwamba hivi ni sawa au sio sawa lakini naomba ukubali kuwa hili swala lina pose a major problem..

And the government cant make a statement that is contrary to the Nation's laws.. Hata Rais atoe executive order.. its secondary to laws enacted by Parliament.. Ndio maana nilikwambia niambie how it could be put to effect kisheria na kihalali... It cant work at the moment, kutokana na jinsi Tanzania ilivyo

 

[Kandambilimbili]

AM...Unazungumzia Haki za mwanamke au Haki za Mwanadamu...? Unastand kama mwanamke au Mtetezi wa Haki za Wanawake....?

Hoja zako zote hapo Hazina MASHIKO.....

mimi hata sielewi pia
JK kaoa mke wa pili kwenye grounds za DINI yake sasa hapa mnacriticise JK au UIslam besides sidhani kama yeye peke yake ndio kaoa zaidi ya mke mmoja.

Haki za binadamu ni pamoja na mwanamke kuamua kuolewa na mwanuame ampendaye kwa hali atakayokuwa nayo.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Nyani Ngabu: The man and the women can be equal partners in a polygamous relationship. What makes you think they can't and what makes you think they will have less dignity if they share a man?

Women are denigrated when they have to take turns sleeping with the same man. A man who shares his love among several women gives each of them less than what they deserve, which is ALL of his love. A woman who agrees to share her husband with other men must have a very low opinion of herself.

Kinyambisi: Polygamy is not an issue at all. It is a thing to be left to the discretion of the contracting parties. Would you have it prohibited by legislation? For one, it would never work due to the provisions of Islamic Holy Book, which allows people to marry up to 4 wives.

But we are not under Sharia Law. We are a secular state, remember? There are things that are allowed by some religious beliefs (like cutting of the hand of a thief) but are nonetheless forbidden by our national laws.

 

[Kinyambiss]

Jamii haitoruhusu... Kukata mikono was never allowed in the 1st place.. This is allowed.. Kuwanyan'ganya that right is what is difficult.. Na sio waislamu tuu, kuna watu wengine wanaofuata mila za kijadi. Sasa tutawakataza kwakutumia sheria... sawa.. Bunge kamwe haliwezi kupitisha kitu cha aina hii.. Mbona mnakuwa kama hamjui kuwa kuna a big lobby itarally for public support BAKWATA sijui washia, Ismailia, Wanasiasa na wafanyabiashara ma opportunist wata dandia itakuwa kasheshe.. wanasiasa hawapendi kufanya maamuzi ambayo hayana lazima especially when it means a rather large segment of society will oppose it, even if not the majority. In politics, only one thing matters to them... GET as MUCH support as possible.... Naombeni tukubali hayo kwanza...

Nakerwa na impractical ideals za human rights ambazo haziwezi kumaterialize Tanzania kwa wakati huu jamani...

 

[Interested Observer]

"""And the government cant make a statement that is contrary to the Nation's laws.. Hata Rais atoe executive order.. its secondary to laws enacted by Parliament.. Ndio maana nilikwambia niambie how it could be put to effect kisheria na kihalali... It cant work at the moment, kutokana na jinsi Tanzania ilivyo"""


I don't understand when you say a government cannot make a satement that is in contrary to the national laws......, the government drafts the laws which are endorsed by parliament. If we have a dtermined Government this is not a big issue. Mind that we have weaked leaders who have taken laws at a gunpoint; they will raise their voices on the Quaran when their weaked ideas are not supported. There is quran teaching everywhere in the world; but they are not using it to victimize their citizens; it should mean to mend people. Here we are centrered only on sex; why a man should mary more women. Why our ideas are centered on a man sex satisfaction only when we define polygamy?

Kwa hiyo tuache tu haya maporomoko ya maadili? kwa sababu tu "kotokana kwa Tanzania ilivyo?"

 

[Icadon]

Nina uhakika umu asilimia kubwa wanaopiga kelele kuhusu hili jambo babu zao walikuwa na mke zaidi ya mmoja na usikute mpaka leo wanandugu uko kijijini bado wanaoa wake wengi.

 

[Chuma]

At least now we are in a clear picture; not a question of a bible or a Quran; thank you.
It is the question of a government- thank you a lot; you presented it very clear.

The only issue we have to argue is; you are saying it is sanctioned by society; but please can you give samples if a referendum will be made today; who will support polygamy and who will oppose? In my view, from my knowldge - Most educated young peolpe (religious or not religious), will oppose polygamy. Old religious people will oppose; but old uneducated and young uneducated may endorse it. Most women will oppose!

So as this issue is not a religion concern therefore a government statement is very important.

Wasomi "mabwege" kama wewe ndio watakao kataa Ukewenza....

Mnakataa ukewenza mnakubali Biashara ya wanawake Kuuza MIILI yao...kama si Umakengeza ni nini?...eti unadai haki za wanawake...? Ulimsikia mwanamke alieolewa ukewenza kalizimishwa?...

 

[Interested Observer]

Jamii haitoruhusu... Kukata mikono was never allowed in the 1st place.. This is allowed.. Kuwanyan'ganya that right is what is difficult.. ..

Kwa nini sasa muamini nusunusu; wakati munataka tuamini kuwa marrying many wives is allowed by the Quran then amputation ambayo ni vilevile ni part ya Sharia mnakataa; hamwoni kuwa hii ni contradiction kubwa sana. The only issue here is sex is comfortable satisfying a man libido (which I call depriving love towards women and children); while amputation is painful. You guys you know what you want say!

 

[Chuma]

"""And the government cant make a statement that is contrary to the Nation's laws.. Hata Rais atoe executive order.. its secondary to laws enacted by Parliament.. Ndio maana nilikwambia niambie how it could be put to effect kisheria na kihalali... It cant work at the moment, kutokana na jinsi Tanzania ilivyo"""


I don't understand when you say a government cannot make a satement that is in contrary to the national laws......, the government drafts the laws which are endorsed by parliament. If we have a dtermined Government this is not a big issue. Mind that we have weaked leaders who have taken laws at a gunpoint; they will raise their voices on the Quaran when their weaked ideas are not supported. There is quran teaching everywhere in the world; but they are not using it to victimize their citizens; it should mean to mend people. Here we are centrered only on sex; why a man should mary more women. Why our ideas are centered on a man sex satisfaction only when we define polygamy?

Kwa hiyo tuache tu haya maporomoko ya maadili? kwa sababu tu "kotokana kwa Tanzania ilivyo?"

Wewe na Genge lako la TGNP kaeni mle pesa za Wazungu...cheap ideas zenu doesn't work at all..
Maporomoko yapi ya maadili unayoyasema wewe na Genge lako la TGNP?...Mbona hatuwaoni mkipiga VITA akina dada wanavyokalishwa UCHI...(Miss Contest)...

mmewasaidia Vipi wanawake wanaouza Miili yao kwenye KONA zote za DAR...?so wakitokea wanaume Wema wakaamua kuwaoa wanawake 4, wakawapa ulinzi, wakayaangalia maisha yao, na familia zao..kwenu nyinyi na Genge lenu la TGNP ni tatizo....?

 

[Interested Observer]

Wasomi "mabwege" kama wewe ndio watakao kataa Ukewenza....

Mnakataa ukewenza mnakubali Biashara ya wanawake Kuuza MIILI yao...kama si Umakengeza ni nini?...eti unadai haki za wanawake...? Ulimsikia mwanamke alieolewa ukewenza kalizimishwa?...

Sorry sir madam or Sir, i never used a language which can be abusive; so please respect other peoples ideas. You may be sick or a cretin who have rage because you are affected by such behaviour; but if you will choose to learn you will discover where love is; if you were not loved learn how to love others!

 

[Interested Observer]

Wewe na Genge lako la TGNP kaeni mle pesa za Wazungu...cheap ideas zenu doesn't work at all..
Maporomoko yapi ya maadili unayoyasema wewe na Genge lako la TGNP?...Mbona hatuwaoni mkipiga VITA akina dada wanavyokalishwa UCHI...(Miss Contest)...

mmewasaidia Vipi wanawake wanaouza Miili yao kwenye KONA zote za DAR...?so wakitokea wanaume Wema wakaamua kuwaoa wanawake 4, wakawapa ulinzi, wakayaangalia maisha yao, na familia zao..kwenu nyinyi na Genge lenu la TGNP ni tatizo....?

Kama wewe husomi tunachoondika utakaa na hiyo mindset yako. Kama umesoma hapo juu; watu tunaongelea how polygamy ina-affect love to our women and children upbringing. Nimeongelea suala kuwa women and children have to be protected; I am talking about Tanzania, which is the rightful country I am from.

Hao wanawake ambao wanakaa nusu uchi ni pamoja ya maadili tunayosema we are lackimg laws to protect our women.

 

[Nungunungu]

Kwenu mnaofadhiliwa,

Semeni yote lakini mkishambulia dini yetu, TUTAJIBU MAPIGO.

Augustino Moshi anafahamika kwa chuki yake ya kidini dhidi ya Kikwete. Ni huyu ndiye aliyeanzisha mada ya Udini wa Kikwete baada ya uteuzi wa mabalozi waislam huko nyuma.

NN.

 

[Mpanda Merikebu]

Kitu kimoja nimegundua hapa ni kuwa kuna baadhi ya watu wana dhana potofu juu ya polygamy. Wanafikiri kuwa polygamy inatokea pale mtu anapooa zaidi ya mke (au mume) mmoja wakati ukweli ni kuwa polygamy hutokea pale mtu anapokuwa na mpenzi zaidi ya mmoja (bila kujali status ya ndoa) kwa wakati mmoja.

Binafsi, mimi ni muamini (na kutimiza) kuwa na mpenzi mmoja kwa wakati mmoja. Inawezekana hali hii imetokana na imani yangu ya dini, malezi au uamuzi tu. Lakini, natambua na kuheshimu maamuzi ya watu wengine. Kama wanataka kupractise polygamy, let them be. Ili mradi hakuna aliyelazimishwa katika maamuzi hayo. Sioni ubaya wa watu wazima wenye akili zao kuamua mahusiano yao ya kimapenzi. Mimi sipendelei (wala sichukii wenye kupendelea) kuwa hivyo lakini haimaanishi kila mtu apende nipendacho mimi.

Kwa mtaji huu huu, hata wale ambao ni mashoga, nitawaheshimu kama binadamu japo sitafuata lifestyle zao. Duniani tupo tofauti; huu ni ukweli ambao ni lazima tuukubali. Leo nikimchukia mwenye wake wawili, kesho nitamchukia aliyeshoga na keshokutwa nitamchukia ndugu yangu kwani si mrefu kama sisi wengine tulivyo.

Jambo hili la polygamy naona lina bias kubwa sana against those who marry more than one wife at a time. Mbona hatuwasuti kuwa polygamists kama Masha, Mkapa na vigogo wengine ambao wameoa lakini wana/walikuwa na nyumba ndogo? Tunawaita mafuska lakini kwani ufuska nao si polygamy? Mimi ni mkristo, lakini siogopi kusema kuwa jambo hili lipo hata kwa wazee wa kanisa, wachungaji na hata maaskofu ambao wanakaripia kuoa zaidi ya mke mmoja.

Naomba kuchangia.

 

[Chuma]

Kama wewe husomi tunachoondika utakaa na hiyo mindset yako. Kama umesoma hapo juu; watu tunaongelea how polygamy ina-affect love to our women and children upbringing. Nimeongelea suala kuwa women and children have to be protected; I am talking about Tanzania, which is the rightful country I am from.

Hao wanawake ambao wanakaa nusu uchi ni pamoja ya maadili tunayosema we are lackimg laws to protect our women.

Kaka/Dada naona umeishiwa na Pumzi...Hivi Hujui kuwa ndoa ni protection?...hivi Hujui watoto walioko ndani ya Ndoa wana protection kubwa...?

 

[Chuma]

Kitu kimoja nimegundua hapa ni kuwa kuna baadhi ya watu wana dhana potofu juu ya polygamy. Wanafikiri kuwa polygamy inatokea pale mtu anapooa zaidi ya mke (au mume) mmoja wakati ukweli ni kuwa polygamy hutokea pale mtu anapokuwa na mpenzi zaidi ya mmoja (bila kujali status ya ndoa) kwa wakati mmoja.

Binafsi, mimi ni muamini (na kutimiza) kuwa na mpenzi mmoja kwa wakati mmoja. Inawezekana hali hii imetokana na imani yangu ya dini, malezi au uamuzi tu. Lakini, natambua na kuheshimu maamuzi ya watu wengine. Kama wanataka kupractise polygamy, let them be. Ili mradi hakuna aliyelazimishwa katika maamuzi hayo. Sioni ubaya wa watu wazima wenye akili zao kuamua mahusiano yao ya kimapenzi. Mimi sipendelei (wala sichukii wenye kupendelea) kuwa hivyo lakini haimaanishi kila mtu apende nipendacho mimi.

Kwa mtaji huu huu, hata wale ambao ni mashoga, nitawaheshimu kama binadamu japo sitafuata lifestyle zao. Duniani tupo tofauti; huu ni ukweli ambao ni lazima tuukubali. Leo nikimchukia mwenye wake wawili, kesho nitamchukia aliyeshoga na keshokutwa nitamchukia ndugu yangu kwani si mrefu kama sisi wengine tulivyo.

Jambo hili la polygamy naona lina bias kubwa sana against those who marry more than one wife at a time. Mbona hatuwasuti kuwa polygamists kama Masha, Mkapa na vigogo wengine ambao wameoa lakini wana/walikuwa na nyumba ndogo? Tunawaita mafuska lakini kwani ufuska nao si polygamy? Mimi ni mkristo, lakini siogopi kusema kuwa jambo hili lipo hata kwa wazee wa kanisa, wachungaji na hata maaskofu ambao wanakaripia kuoa zaidi ya mke mmoja.

Naomba kuchangia.

Mpanda Merikebu...please usiharibu maana ya polygamy/polyginy...Hizi Ndoa..si kuwa na Hawala au Nyumba Ndogo...hao ni MAFUSKA....wasiwashachanganye na wale waliodedicate time, efforts na resources kuwanusuru akina mama na watoto...

 

[The Khoisan]

Wajameni, Nimejaribu kufuatilia huu mjadara kwa harakaharaka kwa vile sikuwa kwenyemtandao jana.

Lakini so far nimeshindwa kufahamu kama kweli rais wetu ana wake wawili au la. Kama kweli ana wake wawili kwa nini hakuna mtu anayetupa jina la mke wa pili. Wote tunajua mke wake ni Salma. Halafu kuna mahali nilisoma hapa JF kuwa mke wake wa kwanza alifariki dunia sometimes ago ndipo akamuoa Salma. Sasa huyu mke wa pili aliolewa lini?????

 

[Sober]

At least now we are in a clear picture; not a question of a bible or a Quran; thank you.
It is the question of a government- thank you a lot; you presented it very clear.

The only issue we have to argue is; you are saying it is sanctioned by society; but please can you give samples if a referendum will be made today; who will support polygamy and who will oppose? In my view, from my knowldge - Most educated young peolpe (religious or not religious), will oppose polygamy. Old religious people will oppose; but old uneducated and young uneducated may endorse it. Most women will oppose!

So as this issue is not a religion concern therefore a government statement is very important.

There you go AGAIN... Plain wishful thinking!... and NO data.

Nani kakwambi hayo matokeo yatakua hivyo?... kwa mfano JK utamuweka kundi gani?... Head of state, University graduate, regularly practices his religion(hence religious), ....Mind you there are so many like him, tena wasomi wazuri sana na wametravel extensively esp. men from Mara region(watani zangu).

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

Augustine Moshi: Are you trying to suggest that polygamy is a form of sexual abuse?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Nina uhakika umu asilimia kubwa wanaopiga kelele kuhusu hili jambo babu zao walikuwa na mke zaidi ya mmoja na usikute mpaka leo wanandugu uko kijijini bado wanaoa wake wengi.

Na usikute wako mstari wa mbele kwenye ku cheat.....

 

[Mkandara]

Kuna mijitu mingine ikikosa kazi ya kufanya kuboresha maisha yao na familia zao basi kutafuta Udini kujaribu kuharibu JF..Nyie nyote wadini na hamna lolote zaidi ya Upofu wa akili na ulimbukeni...
Mada hii haina Kikwete wala sijui haki ya haki ya wanawake isipokuwa ni ulimbukeni ambao siku zote umerudisha mtu mweusi nyuma kwa kufikiria kwamba akifanana kidogo na mzungu ndio maendeleo yenyewe..
Mkapa ambaye alikuwa rais na kaoa mke ambaye alikuwa akitembea naye akiwa bado ndani ya ndoa ya kwanza hazungumzwi.. Mkapa ambaye hakuwahi kusafiri na mkewe zaidi ya wakati inapobidi tena huwezi kuziweka mkononi hazungumzwi., Nyerere ambaye hakuwahi kuonekana na Mama Maria mara zote ktk misafara yake hazungumwi tena huyo mke mmoja tu wameshindwa..
Na nyuma ya misafara yao wamekuwa wakitembea na wake za watu wengine, wasichana na kudhalika...Leo kusafiri na mke imekuwa sheria ya Uongozi!...damn..
Kama kweli mna uchungu na wanawake hivi imekuwaje Polygamy iwe ni uchafu na dhambi kubwa kuliko mme anayetembea nje ya ndoa mkaita ati ni having an Affair, na haina adhabu zaidi ya talaka!
Ikiwa mnaitazama polygamy kwa mtazamo wa sex inakuwaje mnashindwa kutazama watu ambao wanatembea nje ya ndoa!..Yes nimezaliwa ktk ndoa ya pili na namshukuru sana baba na mama yangu kwa maamuzi hayo iwe walifanywa kwa kufuata dini ama mila za kiafrika..
Hata hivyo mjadala huu ni sawa na kuzungumza na vipofu wale waliokumbatia Udini na kuamini chupa badala ya kile kilichomo!...
Mijitu mingine jamani....