Ibara ya 15:1 na 2

[Kitila Mkumbo]

1.

Maneno ya katiba za vyama hatuyahitaji tena tunataka the rule of law, haiwezekani taifa zima li-freeze kwa sababu CCM wanakutana Butiama, ni lini US ili-feeze, eti kwa sababu Democrats au Republicnas wanakutana, never, vikao vya CCM na upinzani vinatakiwa viwe serious na kuzumngumzia sheria za jamhuri, sio maneno ya maadili who needs maadili? Na wanapokutana sisi wananchi na taifa tunaendelea kama kawaida kwa sababu wote tunajua kuwa tuna sheria za jamhuri, hili taifa limedumaa kisiasa na kisheria kwa sababu ya maadili yaliyoshindwa, tumechezewa weee na viongozi wachache wakijitajirisha huku sisi tumeshikilia maadili, sasa eti tuyarudie tena, no way!

Mimi mkuu ndio maana nikasema huko nyuma na ninarudia tena kwamba, wewe ni kati ya wana CCM wachache kabisa ninaoendelea kuwaheshimu maana mnadiriki kulisimamia taifa hata kama kufanya hivyo mtakisuta chama chenu. Nilianza ku-highlight point nzito zaidi hapo juu nikajikuta zote ni nzito na hivyo nikaacha. Hii ni hoja nzito mkuu wangu, tena naomba ruhusa rasmi nije ninukuu maneno yako haya kwenye moja ya makala zangu kwenye gazeti. Ahsante sana, tuendelee kuelimishana kupitia hii njia mahsusi tuliyoletewa na ndugu yetu Invisible. Kwa hoja zako hizi mimi naenda zangu kunywa Fosters, tuonane kesho.

 

[Pundit]

We all know we are fallible...
And no one said Nyerere was infallible...next

The personality cult akin to infallibility need a roadblock.

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

Nyerere pamoja na mazuri yote aliyofanya alijishushia hadhi aliposhiriki kuvuruga uchaguzi Zanzibar moja kwa moja kwa kumuweka Salmin wakati Seif alishinda.

Nafikiri hamna kitu kinachomchafua Nyerere kama hiki. Tena alipanda mbegu mbaya sana maana baada ya hapo aliwapa kiburi wajukuu zake kwamba kunyang'anya ushindi sio jambo baya. Hili kwa kweli litaendelea kumsuta hata huko alipo.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mimi mkuu ndio maana nikasema huko nyuma na ninarudia tena kwamba, wewe ni kati ya wana CCM wachache kabisa ninaoendelea kuwaheshimu maana mnadiriki kulisimamia taifa hata kama kufanya hivyo mtakisuta chama chenu.

Mkuu wangu Kitila,

Heshima mbele mkuu, I am humbled kama wewe Mwalimu wa waalimu, unayeweza hata kufundisha waliposoma kuanzia rais wetu mpaka waziri mkuu wetu, na mawaziri wakuu wengi wa zamani, licha ya mawaziri na viongozi wetu mbali mbali wa taifa, unaweza kuzikubali baadhi ya hoja zangu kuwa ni za msingi kwa maendeleo ya taifa letu, basi mimi ni kusema amina mkuu.

CCM ni chama changu, tena believe me ninakijua nje ndani na hata hizi moves za hapa na pale, lakini I am not happy na tuliyoyafanya Butiama, it was un-necessary kwenda kule, hakukuwa na sababu ya msingi, huenda uamuzi wa kura ya maoni ni a big political word inayoweza kukumbatiwa na yoyote mpenda maendeleo ya taifa na demokrasia, lakini bado CCM wanahitaji kutoa maelezo zaidi, kwamba itafanyikaje iwapo kwenye kupiga kura kumekuwa na kasoro kila wakati, na kwamba wanachi wengi hawana imani tena na uchaguzi wahuko visiwani na CCM, hoja ambayo ndiyo hasa chanzo cha muafaka.

Otherwise, I love Mwalimu, he was the greatest ever, lakini nina tatizo kubwa sana na maneno ya kuanza kurudia maneno yake na kuyasmabaza maandishi yake, mimi ninafikri tunmahitaji fresh ideas of how to move forward, baadhi ya viongozi wa CCM waliohusika kupitisha hili azimio, ni vyema tu wakakubali kuwa hawana uwezo wa kuongoza na kuwaachia wengine wenye uwezo, maana wapo.

Ahsante again kwa kunielewa hoja yangu ya msingi, ila kama ninavyosema kila wakati mimi sio an-intellectual, na ninasema kwamba wa-Tanzania, tujitahidi kuongea lugha za siasa ambazo wananchi mpaka wa chini wanaweeza kuzielewa, ni tatizo moja kubwa sana linawasumbua ndugu zetu wa upinzani Tanzania, sasa hivi, wananchi hawawaelewi vizuri wanachosema, lakini ninaaamini pole pole tutasogea, na taifa lolote hapa duniani ambalo haliwezi kuuheshimu upinzani wake wa ndani kisiasa, basi hilo taifa ni dooomed.

Ahsante Mkuu.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Here we go...

1.

1. Mkuu heshima mbele, sikumbuki hotuba yoyote ya Mwalimu, kwa taifa alipokubali kuwa alikosea, na exactly alikosea nini,

Hapa umesema vizuri kuwa "hukumbuki". Sasa wewe kutokukumbuka haiondoi ukweli kuwa alisema. Lakini kwa vile umesema hukukumbuka ni jukumu langu basi kukumbusha kwa moyo mkunjufu na wa furaha.

Mwalimu Nyerere alizungumza kwenye taafrija aliyoandaliwa na Jeshi la Magereza wakati wa kung'atuka kwake mwa 1985. Katika hotuba yake ile alielezea mlolongo wa mafanikio ya utawala wake na mapungufu yake. Alielezea alifanikiwa wapi na wapi alishindwa na kwanini aliamua kung'atuka. Natumaini hilo litakukumbusha.

hizo interview unazosema, mimi sijawahi kuzisikia

Sasa wewe kutozisikia hakuondoi ukweli kuwa alisema. Wewe kutopata mwanga wa jua haina maana jua halimuliki. Sasa kwa vile hukusikia, naomba nipendekeza usome mojawapo HAPA na kama utakuwa na muda unaweza kujisomea interview yake nyingine HAPA. Yote ni katika kukuonesha kuwa mahojiano ya Mwalimu hayako mbali na vidole vyako, with a few clicks unaweza kuaccess a fountain of amazing political thoughts of our time. Just try.

na wala sidhani kama kuna wananchi wa vijijini waliwahi kuzisikia, lakini wananchi wote wa Tanzania, walimsikia Mwalimu akimponda Mwinyi kuwa hafai, why? Kwa sababu aliyasema hadharani,

"Sidhani" sasa kudhani ni kitu ambacho mtu hawezi kukiondoa kwa sababu watu wanadhania vitu vingi na mara nyingine havina msingi wowote ule. Hivyo kama unadhani haitoshi. Lakini inashangaza kwa ujasiri unapodai kuwa "wananchi WOTE wa Tanzania walimsikia Mwalimu akimponda Mwinyi kuwa hafai". Mimi ni mmojawao na sikumsikia akisema hivyo. Hivyo, kwa vile na mimi ni mmoja wa wananchi hao na sikumsikia kwa hiyo chumvi yako ya "wote" inaonekana kuwa si kweli. Na sitoshangaa wapo na wengine hapa ambao walikuwepo nyumbani wakati ule na wao hawakumsikia.

Hivyo aidha umetia chumvi au unaongopa kwa sababu ulijuaje kuwa "wananchi wote" walimsikia?

Mara ya kwanza Mwalimu, angalau anagusa tu meble ya hadhara kuwa alikosea, ni pale Kilimanjaro Hotel wakati anamsafishia njia Mkapa, ohterwise sijawahi kusikia hadharani Mwalimu, akisema wazi mbele ya public kuwa mazuri niliyofanya ni 1234, na nilipokosea kama rais wa jamhuri ni 12345,

Wrong again, nimekupa mfano wa hotuba mbele ya Magereza lakini hotuba nyingine ni ile ya Mei Mosi 1995 pale Uwanja wa Sokoine. Katika hotuba ile aliyoiita "Tumetoka wapi, Wapi Tulipo, na Tunataka kwenda wapi" Mwalimu alijikosoa yeye mwenyewe na wakati huo huo kukosoa wale waliomfuatia na pia kutupa angalizi kwa wale watakaokuja.

Katika hotuba hiyo alitoa mifano wazi ya wapi kama Rais alikosoea, na ukichukua muda kuipata hotuba hiyo utashangaa jinsi gani hakusita kujikosoa ukilinganisha na hawa ndugu zetu wa sasa ambao hakuna anaweza kukosea, kwani wao hawakosei, na hawawezi kukosea. Wakiambiwa wamekosea wanalia "bangusilo" au wanawalaumu wasaidizi wao.

Lakini kwa vile ni wazi kuwa hujui mengi aliyoyasema Nyerere hadharani nikukumbushe kuwa mwaka 1971 Mwalimu akiangalia miaka 10 baada ya Uhuru alifanya ukosoaji wa miaka 10 na alianisha kwa vipengele wapi tumefanikiwa na wapi kulikuwa na matatizo.

kwa hiyo ninangependa wanaofuata wasirudie makosa niliyoyafanya, never!

Once againa unadeclare rather boastfully kuwa "never" wakati hukuwahi kusikiliza hotuba ya Mwalimu ya Mei Mosi 1995 Uwanja wa Sokoine. Siku ile Mwalimu alisema makosa ambayo wanaomfuatia wasirudie. Alionesha makosa ya utawala wake, alionesha makosa ya utawala wa Mwinyi, lakini pia alitoa uangalizi kwa utawala wa Mkapa. Nakuhakikishia kama Mkapa angesikiliza hotuba ile asingeombea Nyerere afe mapema ili ajipatie Kiwira!

alichokuwa akifanya ni kuwasakama viongozi aliowaachia, ninarudia tena kuwa Mwalimu, alipaswa kusema wazi tena kwa public,

Nitarudia tena, Nyerere alifanya hivyo hadharani siyo kwenye hiyo interview peke yake. Kwa hotuba yake ya kuliaga Taifa (Pale Magereza) na pia kwenye hotuba yake ya Mei Mosi ambazo zote zilitangazwa moja kwa moja na RTD. Tatizo ni kuwa waliosikia "hawakumbuki" au niseme hawataki kukumbuka!

Rais Nixon alipojiuzulu kuukwepa mokondo sheria alisema wazi makosa yake, na viongozi wote wastaarabu hufanya hivyo, sio kwenye interview ambazo waananchi wachache wa taifa lako wana access nazo.

Nirudie tena Mwalimu alisema makosa yake wazi na mojawapo ni kwenye hiyo interview. NI kiongozi gani mwingine aliyekuwa na ujasiri wa kukiri makosa? Kuna mtu amemuuliza Rais Mwinyi makosa ya uongozi wake? Je kuna wakati wowote mwinyi alisema katika utawala wake yeye alikosea wapi? Vipi kuhusu Mkapa; Hivi Mkapa alikosea mahali popote pale?

Tuwaulize waliokuwa Mawaziri wetu wakuu; Salim alikosea wapi amewahi kuliambia Taifa? Vipi kuhusu Malecela, amewahi kuliambia taifa wapi alikosea kama kiongozi? Vipi kuhusu Warioba (pamoja na kuwanyoshea kidole wengine) ni lini yeye alisema amekosea kitu? Hata mzee Kawawa (aliyesimamia kampeni ya Operesheni vijijini) ni wapi amewahi kusimama na kusema "nikiwa Waziri Mkuu nilikosea hapa au pale"? Vipi kuhusu Sumaye lini amewahi kusema amewahi kukosea au hata kuandika akijikosoa (self criticism)? Vipi kuhusu Lowassa si yeye aliyelia "nimefadhishwa sana na nimefedheheka sana" alikubali kosa lolote?

Hawa wote hakuna hata mmoja aliyewahi kuwa na ujasiri wa kusema alikosea nini na watu wanafanya kana kwamba hawakufanya makosa. Ugonjwa huu sasa umemvaa Kikwete kiasi kwamba yeye naye hakosei na hana muda wa kuangalia wapi alikosea. Hadi hivi sasa ni Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere, Baba wa Taifa la Tanzania ambaye alikuwa na ujasiri wa kujiangalia, kujichunguza, kujikosoa na kusahahihisha makosa yake.

JokaKuu hapo juu amesema kuhusu Zanzibar, namkubalia lakini si Nyerere aliyekaa na kuzungumza na Seif? Si Nyerere aliyezungumza na Mrema? Si Mwalimu aliyetoa wazo la kurudisha serikali ya Mseto; Je yawezekana alitambua makosa yake? I bet he did; na hivyo ndiyvo viongozi wazuri hufanya, hawaogopi kujikosoa.

2. Uungwana ni pamoja na kukataa kulazimishwa kukubali uongo wa siasa, haiwezekani kuwa Mwalimu na Jumbe walikaa chini, wote kwa nia njema kabisa, wakakubaliana kuunda muuungano wa vyama vyao vya siasa, halafu baadaye muda hata sio mrefu Jumbe akabadilika na kuyakana mawazo yake mwenyewe juu ya muungano aliokubaliana nao kwa hiari yake mwenyewe,

Mzee, usichagua mada sikuwa nazungumzia suala la jumbe tu, nazungumzia madai yako ambayo unayoyatoa with "sweeping statements" kuwa "Mwalimu "Never" did this or that" wakati nimekuonesha kuwa alifanya hivyo.

Na kuhusu suala la Jumbe mzee, haikuwa kuhusu CCM; kutofautiana kwake na Nyerere hakukutokana na Muungano wa ASP na TANU. Naweza kukufunza kidogo suala la Zanzibar lakini wapo mabingwa hapa toka visiwani na bara ambao wanaweza kukuambia ni nini hasa waligongana mawazo kati ya Nyerere na Aboud Jumbe. Haikuwa kuhusu Muungano wa Vyama, hapana mzee hilo si kweli.

Mzee Jumbe si yuko Mji Mwema hapo Kigamboni kaka, nenda umuulize kama mgongano wao ulikuwa kuhusu CCM? Ulikuwa ni mgongano wa fikra ambao Watanzania wanapaswa kuusoma na kuulewa.

I mean huenda kuna wananchi wanaweza hapa JF ku-buy hiyo, lakini I m sorry sio mimi mkuu.

Mzee hapa hatulazimishi mtu kukubali kitu lakini ni jukumu la mtu mwenye dhamira safi kuukubali ukweli hata kama utapindua kila hoja aliyokuwa anasimamia. Ni rahisi kung'ang'ania kubisha ili mtu aonekane mbishi, lakini ukiweka facts na siyo mawazo ya juu ambayo hayana msingi wa ukweli basi ni jukumu la mtu kuchagua ukweli.

A haste generalization and a mediocre attempt to tarnish Nyerere's legacy and in a way demonize his principles will prove to be futile. Any mind that is clear, fair, and balanced will look at the evidence presented and on the merit of the evidence alone will make a decision kama Nyerere aliwahi kukubali makosa au la; aliwahi kusahihisha makosa yake au la

Hii siku zote ndio ilikuwa tabia ya Mwalimu, kuwachezea wananchi akili,

Hapana Mkuu wangu, mwalimu hakuwa anachezea watu akili "siku zote". Yaani, mtu mmoja alichezee akili taifa zima basi Taifa hilo halistahili hata kuwepo!

now we can go on and on, bado ninasimamia hoja yangu ya msingi kwamba Mwalimu, aliandika hizi katiba za CCM peke yake,

Mzee unaweza kusimamia hoja yako kwa sababu unaamini ni kweli licha ya ushahidi kuonesha vinginevyo. Kama Mwalimu aliandika Azimio la Arusha peke yake, aliandika Katiba ya CCM peke yake, aliandika Mwongozo wa CCM peke yake na nyaraka mbalimbal zote yeye mwenyewe, basi unanifanya niamini kabisa kuwa alikuwa ni mtu mwenye kipaji kikubwa kiasi kwamba hawa wengine wote walishindwa kushindana nacho.

Na inawezekana kuwa ni kweli, kwani tangia Mwalimu aondoke sijasikia kiongozi mwingine yoyote wa CCM aliyeweza kuarticulate mawazo yake na nadharia zake kama Mwalimu. Hakuna.

3. Mkuu tunasoma maneno ya kina George Washington, maneno ya kina Churchhill, I mean yalisemwa miaka mingi iliyopita lakini mpaka leo ni applicable na yanaonekana kwenye matendo ya siasa na sheria za hayo mataifa,

Mzee yawezekana unahusudu maneno ya wazungu zaidi lakini yakisemwa na mwanakijiji toka Butiama basi hayafai. Si Wamarekani waliosema "Binadamu wote ni sawa" (Angalia "we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal") Na Mwalimu anaporudia kama mwangwi maneno hayo na kusema "Binadamu wote ni sawa" unayaona "hayawezekani Tanzania.

ni bongo tu maneno ya Mwalimu hayawezekani, kwanza yalimshinda yeye mwenyewe kuya-implemment, sasa sisi tutayaweza wapi?

Mzee, kutowezekana kwa mawazo au fikra fulani haina maana ni fikra za uongo. Labda tatizo haliko kwa aliyetoa mawazo hayo bali kwa watekelezaji. Lakini pia naweza kuona nuru kigodo ya kwanini tunapata shida kwa sababu tuna watu ambao wanaamini kuwa kuna "vitu haviwezekani" Tanzania na hivyo tukubali tu yanayoendelea.

Wananchi wote tutakuwaje sawa wakati hata vidole vya bin-adam tu haviko sawa? Mkapa mr. clean na mwanafunzi wake yalimshinda, sasa who can do it?

Yaani, kama ulielewa Mwalimu alikuwa ana maana ya "usawa wa kimo" au vitu ambavyo ni vya maumbile basi mzee nitakuwa na kazi kubwa sana. Na kwenye hiyo mada niliyofungua nitatumia muda kuonesha kuwa Mwalimu hakuwa anazungumzia mambo ya fedha, urefu, elimu n.k alipokuwa anazungumzia "usawa wa binadamu".

I mean no question kuwa unamjua na unampenda sana Mwalimu, na umejifunza all his ideas na kwamba you can alyways make a good argument

Mzee, simpendi Mwalimu kwa sababu ni Mwalimu, mapenzi yangu yanatokana na mvuto wa fikra zake ambazo mtu yeyote atachukua muda kuzisoma ataelewa utajiri wa kina, na upana wa hoja zake kiasi kwamba zinatosha kumbadilisha kifikra mtu na kumfanya siyo tu alipende Taifa lake bali pia awe tayari kulitumikia na kulisimamia kwa moyo wake wote.

Wale ambao wanaziogopa fikra za Mwalimu wanaziogopa kama vile mtoto anavyoogopa kiboko cha Mwalimu shuleni. Wanazihofia fikra hizi kujulikana na kusambazwa kwa sababu zitafungua mawazo ya watu na kuwapa uhuru na mapenzi kwa Taifa lao.

Fikra hizi kwa wengi zinaendelea kubakia kama hazina iliyofichika, ambayo wale wanaoipata hufurahia. Fikra za kian Plato na Socrates, Aristotle na wengine waliotutangulia bado ni lulu. Na nikuhakikishie kuwa CCM wasifanya makosa ya kutafsiri na kusambaza Mawazo ya Mawazo ya Mwalimu kama walivyoamua kufanya Butiama.

on his words hata kama practically ni impossible kuyafanyia kazi as our nation has learned tayari, lakini haibadili ukweli kwamba yamepitwa na wakati, ni mazuri tu kuyasoma, lakini practically ni bure,

Mzee hatujayafanyia kazi mawazo ya mwalimu, ni kama kilele ambacho tumekwepa kukifikia kwa sababu ni kigumu. Tumeamua kutafuta njia ya mkato.

sasa tuko kwenye ubepari mkuu, na umeanza yeye mwenyewe akiwepo hatuwezi kurudi nyuma tena kama walivyosema Butiama,

Once again, unaonesha ni jinsi gani umeyamiss mawazo ya Nyerere. Hakuna aliyesema tumeingia kwenye Ubepari. Hawa waliopo sasa wenyewe wanaogopa kusema tuko kwenye Ubepari. Kwa nini? Mawazo ya Mwalimu hayapingani na Ubepari. Bali yanaupa Ubepari sura yake ya kibinadamu. Na leo hii nchi nyingi za Kibepari zenyewe bila kujua au zikijua zimekuwa zikichota leo katika mawazo ya kuufanya Ubepari uwe na sura ya kibinadamu.

Wale tuliosoma Political Economy kama wewe mzee utakumbua ile maxim ya zamani ya Ubepari kuwa "everybody for himself but God for us all". Ubepari wa zamani ulikuwa hauna room kwa serikali kuingilia kati maisha ya watu na kuwa na sura ya huruma.

leo hii kina Bush wamekuja na "Compassionate conservatism" na kina Obama na Hillary wote wanajaribu kuifanya Marekani iwe inajali. Hata Bepari kama Bush leo hii anakuja na vitu vya "No Child Left Behind" na leo wameamua kusaidia watu waliokopa na wenye madeni (kama mimi).

Ndugu yangu serikali ya Marekani leo hii imepitisha sheria ya kutoa fedha za rebate kati ya dola 600 na 1200 kwa kila mlipa kodi kuwasaidia, kaka huo ni ujamaa!! Nenda Ulaya huko uone kama kuna mtu anafuata pure capitalism ambapo individual and profit is the only and ultimate goal of an economic activity.

Hata wao hawaamini tena kwani wangeendelea kufanya hivyo Karl Max na Engel wangeendelea kuonekana kuwa kweli kwani classical capitalism creates its own seeds of destruction. Bila watu kama Mwalimu Ubepari usingekuwa na sura uliyonayo sasa.

Watu wengi hawajui lakini siku moja watajua, Mwalimu na taasisi kama Oxfarm na Jubilee 2000 walisaidia sana kujenga huu Ubepari tunaouona sasa.

nonesense, sasa tunaangalia mbele, maneno ya katiba za vyama hatuyahitaji tena tunataka the rule of law, haiwezekani taifa zima li-freeze kwa sababu CCM wanakutana Butiama, ni lini US ili-feeze, eti kwa sababu Democrats au Republicnas wanakutana, never, vikao vya CCM na upinzani vinatakiwa viwe serious na kuzumngumzia sheria za jamhuri,

Duh, imebidi nirudie maneno hayo mara kadhaa kuhakikisha kuwa ni wewe umeyaandika. Kaka Sheria za nchi zinatokana na vyama vya kisiasa. Chama kilichoko madarakani ndivyo chenye kuunda sheria kufuatana na ilani yake. Ndio maana usishangae wakiingia kina Obama au Hillary baadhi ya Sheria zilizopitishwa na Bush zitafutwa! Ndio Demokrasia.

Na hata Tanzania wakiingia CUF (wakishika Urais na Bunge) usitarajie baadhi ya sheria kuendelea kuwepo. Huwezi kujadili sheria za Jamhuri bila kuangalia vyama vya siasa. Ndio maana wengine tunafuatilia sana hawa wanasiasa wanasema nini na kufanya nini kwa sababu maamuzi yao yanagusana moja kwa moja na sheria zetu.

Kama uhusiano wa vyama vya siasa na uundaji wa sheria hauuoni itabidi nitoe somo la "Siasa 101"

sio maneno ya maadili who needs maadili?

Mzee tumia muda kidogo kufikiri badala ya kutoa maneno ya namna hii.. yaani "who need maadili"?!! I will not even try to answer this one.

Na wanapokutana sisi wananchi na taifa tunaendelea kama kawaida kwa sababu wote tunajua kuwa tuna sheria za jamhuri, hili taifa limedumaa kisiasa na kisheria kwa sababu ya maadili yaliyoshindwa, tumechezewa weee na viongozi wachache wakijitajirisha huku sisi tumeshikilia maadili, sasa eti tuyarudie tena, no way!

Somebody please choke meee! Naomba mtu mwingine anisaidie kuhusu umuhimu wa maadili katika Taifa maana nikianza naweza kuvunja hii keyboard.

Ahsante Mkuu!

Asante na wewe mzee, ila unajitahidi sana and I really appreciate your zeal. Na usikubali haya ya kuamua kuachia ngazi kama wanavyomtaka Hillary, you better fight to the bitter end. Ndio uungwana huo.

 

[Pundit]

mwanakijiji if anything that CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: interview you linked reinforces the idea kuwa Nyerere hakukubali kuwa alikosea

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: You mentioned the one-party rule in your country where you were president for four terms during which time you promoted the principle of "Ujamaa," socialism, and you have acknowledged that it was a miserable failure. What lessons, in retrospect, do you draw from that and the kind of economies that African countries might more profitably pursue?

JULIUS NYERERE: Where did you get the idea that I thought "Ujamaa" was a miserable failure?

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Well, I read that you said socialism was failure; the country economically was in shambles at the end of the experiment.

JULIUS NYERERE: A bunch of countries were in economic shambles at the end of the 70s. They are not socialists. Now, today it needs so much courage to talk about socialism, therefore, perhaps we should change the phraseology, but you have to take in the values of socialism which we were trying to build in Tanzania in any society.

Haambiliki

IB: Does the Arusha Declaration still stand up today?

MJN: I still travel around with it. I read it over and over to see what I would change. Maybe I would improve on the Kiswahili that was used but the Declaration is still valid: I would not change a thing. Tanzania had been independent for a short time before we began to see a growing gap between the haves and the have-nots in our country. A privileged group was emerging from the political leaders and bureaucrats who had been poor under colonial rule but were now beginning to use their positions in the Party and the Government to enrich themselves. This kind of development would alienate the leadership from the people. So we articulated a new national objective: we stressed that development is about all our people and not just a small and privileged minority.

The Arusha Declaration was what made Tanzania distinctly Tanzania. We stated what we stood for, we laid down a code of conduct for our leaders and we made an effort to achieve our goals. This was obvious to all, even if we made mistakes - and when one tries anything new and uncharted there are bound to be mistakes.

The Arusha Declaration and our democratic single-party system, together with our national language, Kiswahili, and a highly politicized and disciplined national army, transformed more than 126 different tribes into a cohesive and stable nation.

However, despite this achievement, they say we failed in Tanzania, that we floundered. But did we? We must say no. We can't deny everything we accomplished. There are some of my friends who we did not allow to get rich; now they are getting rich and they say `See, we are getting rich now, so you were wrong'. But what kind of answer is that?

The floundering of socialism has been global. This is what needs an explanation, not just the Tanzanian part of it. George Bernard Shaw, who was an atheist, said, `You cannot say Christianity has failed because it has never been tried.' It is the same with socialism: you cannot say it has failed because it has never been tried.

Hapa kaona aibu kusema hakuna alichokosea

IB: What were your main mistakes as Tanzanian leader? What should you have done differently?

MJN: There are things that I would have done more firmly or not at all. For example, I would not nationalize the sisal plantations. This was a mistake. I did not realize how difficult it would be for the state to manage agriculture. Agriculture is difficult to socialize. I tried to tell my government that what was traditionally the family's in the village social organization should be left with the family, while what was new could be communalized at the village level. The land issue and family holdings were very sensitive. I saw this intellectually but it was hard to translate it into policy implementation. But I still think that in the end Tanzania will return to the values and basic principles of the Arusha Declaration.

So the record shows, he admitted his mistakes.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

mwanakijiji if anything that CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: interview you linked reinforces the idea kuwa Nyerere hakukubali kuwa alikosea

mzee umeangalia swali swali la Charlayne jinsi alivyomchomekea Mwalimu? Halafu angalia swali aliloulizwa na huyo mwandishi mwingine. Kimsingi Hunter-Gault aliuliza swali akiwa anassume kuwa nyerere alisema Ujamaa was "miserable" failure and hence jibu la Nyerere

JULIUS NYERERE: Where did you get the idea that I thought "Ujamaa" was a miserable failure?

lilikuwa ni jukumu la Ms. Hunter-Gault kusema nilisoma, nilikusikia ukisema hivi au vile. Angalia utetezi wake. Alichokisoma sicho alichomuuliza Nyerere.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Shame on you Mwanakijiji. Kama umefikia kiasi cha ku SPIN namna hiyo, inabidi kweli uone aibu.

Wana JF wengi wana uwezo wa kuelewa maana ya kipengere hicho, maana ambayo ni tofauti kabisa na ulichosema au alichosema Rev. Kishoka.

Labda nikuwekee hapa chini translation yake kwa Kiingereza, labda utaelewa vizuri.

Mwanakijiji nafikiri wewe ni kama wale Wachungaji na mapdre wanaosema fuateni ninachosema na sio nitendavyo.

Unaongea mengi ya maana lakini ukiamua ku SPIN yaani unamkaribia Ngombale Mwiru kama sio kumzidi.

Endelea kuwa mwandishi wa habari maana inaelekea ukiwa serikalini unaweza kuwa hatari sana.

15. Every member shall have the following
obligations:-
(1) To know that Chama cha Mapinduzi has
strength and capability which stem from the
unity of its members, CCM’s correct
ideological line and its acceptability by the
masses. Therefore to defend and enhance
these qualities is the foremost obligation of
every member.
(2) To serve his or her country and all the
people by discharging his or her
responsibilities without fear, ill-will or favour
for his or her own self, friends or relatives.

Maneno ya CCM ni sahihi siku zote na wananchama wote wa CCM nilazima waweke mbele mambo ya CCM kwanza ndiyo waitumikie nchi.

Shame on you Mtanzania kwa kujaribu kutaka kupindisha maneno ndani ya katiba ya chama chako mwenyewe.
Tena naomba ulegee na unyong'onyee kabisa mbele ya wana CCM wenzako.
Shame on you.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Hongereni kwa ku-spin mambo!!! Hivi kujiunga CCM si hiari!!! Kama hukubaliani, si unakuwa nje kama mimi, sasa kuna haja gani ya Ku-spin.

Kila siku zinavyoenda hizi spinning strategy zinaendelea kuweka wazi kwamba kumbe CCM wako fiti zaidi.

Sasa ma-think tank wa Upinzani badala ya kuja na mambo yao... kueneza siasa zao wanapata shida na wanaCCM ambao wanabadilisha katiba yao kwa vikao... wanatoa matamko kwa vikao...

Vikao vya kuhudhuriwa na wanywa kahawa na kashata huku wakisubiri Per DM na muda wa kupiga makofi na kuimba CCM CCM CCM?
Usahihi wa katiba ya chama chochote Tanzania ni muhimu kwa maendeleo ya Kila mTanzania. tatizo la kikatiba lililoko Chadema ni vema lishughulikiwe leo kwani siku wakishika madaraka itakuwa too late.
Matatizo ya katiba ya CCM ni lazima yasemwe, yajadiliwe na kupembuliwa kama njugu. Uamuzi wa kubadili katiba ni wao CCM, hatuwalazimishi wabadili katiba.
Tukiwa watanzania na waathiriwa wa moja kwa moja wa maamuzi ya siasa za CCM tuna haki ya kujadiri katiba ya CCM.
Kama watu huru katika nchi huru ,pia tuna haki ya kujadiri katiba ya CCM kwa kina, kwa upana na kwa uwazi bila kuhofu vimaneno kutoka kwa the so called wanachama damu kijani.

Zaidi ya nusu ya kura zilizo muweka MH Kikwete madarakani zilipigwa na watu wasio wanachama wa CCM.

Kama kuna ngendembwe na ngebe za kuwatosa wasio wanachama wa CCM kujiingiza kwa wanaCCM basi ziletwe kwanza zile za watu wasio wanachama wa CCM kumpigia kura mwana chama wa CCM, hapo mtaeleweka.

 

[William J. Malecela]

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: You mentioned the one-party rule in your country where you were president for four terms during which time you promoted the principle of "Ujamaa," socialism, and you have acknowledged that it was a miserable failure. What lessons, in retrospect, do you draw from that and the kind of economies that African countries might more profitably pursue?

JULIUS NYERERE: Where did you get the idea that I thought "Ujamaa" was a miserable failure?

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Well, I read that you said socialism was failure; the country economically was in shambles at the end of the experiment.

JULIUS NYERERE: A bunch of countries were in economic shambles at the end of the 70s. They are not socialists. Now, today it needs so much courage to talk about socialism, therefore, perhaps we should change the phraseology, but you have to take in the values of socialism which we were trying to build in Tanzania in any society.

Mkuu Pundit,

Ahsante mkuu, this is very interesting.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Hapa umesema vizuri kuwa "hukumbuki". Sasa wewe kutokukumbuka haiondoi ukweli kuwa alisema. Lakini kwa vile umesema hukukumbuka ni jukumu langu basi kukumbusha kwa moyo mkunjufu na wa furaha.

Mwalimu Nyerere alizungumza kwenye taafrija aliyoandaliwa na Jeshi la Magereza wakati wa kung'atuka kwake mwa 1985. Katika hotuba yake ile alielezea mlolongo wa mafanikio ya utawala wake na mapungufu yake. Alielezea alifanikiwa wapi na wapi alishindwa na kwanini aliamua kung'atuka. Natumaini hilo litakukumbusha.

Hotuba yako kama kweli, aliitoa kwenye magereza, sasa alipomponda Mwinyi, kuwa hafai alisema mbele ya waandishi katika hotuba iliyotangazwa moja kwa moja na media zetu, na isitoshe akaandika na kitabu kabisa, sasa ni wewe peke yako ambaye hukuisikia hiii hotuba ya Mwalimu, plae Kilimanjaro Hotel akimkashifu Mwinyi, sasa labda ukisema kuwa hiyo hotuba ya magereza ilitangazwa moja kwa moja kwa taifa, sikumbuki hilo,

Halafu by the way, huko alikosema kuwa alikosea, exactly alisema alikosea nini au wapi?

 

[William J. Malecela]

Katika hotuba hiyo alitoa mifano wazi ya wapi kama Rais alikosoea, na ukichukua muda kuipata hotuba hiyo utashangaa jinsi gani hakusita kujikosoa ukilinganisha na hawa ndugu zetu wa sasa ambao hakuna anaweza kukosea, kwani wao hawakosei, na hawawezi kukosea. Wakiambiwa wamekosea wanalia "bangusilo" au wanawalaumu wasaidizi wao.

Mkuu this is great, sasa vipi ukiiweka hiyo hotuba hapa wote tukaisoma ili tujue ni wapi alikubali kukosea, maana ndipo hasa tunaweza kujirekebisha as a nation kwa kufuatilia makosa ya foundation, mkuu iweke hapa tuichambue!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mkuu Pundit,

Ahsante mkuu, this is very interesting.

angalia angalizo langu kwa mkuu Pundit..

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Hotuba yako kama kweli, aliitoa kwenye magereza, sasa alipomponda Mwinyi, kuwa hafai alisema mbele ya waandishi katika hotuba iliyotangazwa moja kwa moja na media zetu, na isitoshe akaandika na kitabu kabisa, sasa ni wewe peke yako ambaye hukuisikia hiii hotuba ya Mwalimu, plae Kilimanjaro Hotel akimkashifu Mwinyi, sasa labda ukisema kuwa hiyo hotuba ya magereza ilitangazwa moja kwa moja kwa taifa, sikumbuki hilo,

Naomba niulize humu ni Watanzania wangapi walimsikia Nyerere akimkashifu Mwinyi pale Kilimanjaro Hotel? Yawezekana labda ni mimi tu. Na hiyo hotuba ya magereza ilitolewa na kutangazwa.

Halafu by the way, huko alikosema kuwa alikosea, exactly alisema alikosea nini au wapi?

Nimeshatoa jibu na Pundit kalirudia, rudi kurasa mbili nyuma mkuu.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mkuu this is great, sasa vipi ukiiweka hiyo hotuba hapa wote tukaisoma ili tujue ni wapi alikubali kukosea, maana ndipo hasa tunaweza kujirekebisha as a nation kwa kufuatilia makosa ya foundation, mkuu iweke hapa tuichambue!

Mzee sasa hiyo itakuwa ni mimi kuwatafunia watu na kuwamezea. Uliza tu wakuu (ninajua una connection) wakupatie mkanda wa video ya hotuba ya Mei Mosi 1995. Inapatikana kiurahisi tu. Unaweza kwenda pale dula la Vitabu vya Serikali karibu St. Joseph unaweza kupata.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Hiyo hotuba kule Mbeya kwenye Mei mosi, ilikuwa ni moja ya kampeni zake kumuweka Mkapa, kinyemela, nakumbuka jinsi alivyouchambua utawala wa Mwinyi, ambaye at the time alikuwa ndio kwanza anarudi toka ziara ya Mozambique, na akamjibu Mwalimu, kuwa kama utawala wake Mwinyi ulikuwa mbya iweje hakuwahi hata kupata jkaribio moja la kupinduliwa, as opposed na Mwalimu, aliyepata majaribio chungu nzima huku yeye anadai utawala wake ulikuwa bomba, okay hiyo sasa ninaikumbuka.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Na hiyo hotuba ya magereza ilitolewa na kutangazwa.

Hii sijawahi kuisikia wala kuisoma mahali, lakini nitashukuru sana mkuu ukiiweka hapa, wote tukaichambua si unazo zote mkuu.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Mwanakijiji, to what degree, if any, was Nyerere's involvement in the purpoted manipulation of the 1995 Zanzibar presidential vote. Because if he did influence it then that and that alone tarnishes his whole persona of a man of high intergrity.

I ask because I don't think you have adequately addressed this issue like you have the other issues concerning him. So I was just wondering what was your take on it...and I'm not clowning around...I'm being serious..

 

[William J. Malecela]

Through benign one-party rule and emphasizing racial and tribal harmony and moralistic self-sacrifice, Nyerere unified Tanzania from a far flung collection of tribes into a nation. But the country faltered. After Nyerere stepped down from power in 1985, the country was in shambles, and the socialist experiment was viewed as a failure. Nyerere resigned voluntarily after serving four terms. He handed over power to a constitutionally chosen successor,

Hii ni moja tu ya analysis kuhusu Mwalimu na siasa zake, halafu unaona hapo chini yeye alimchagua Mwinyi, lakini huko wanasema alichaguliwa constitutionally!

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mwanakijiji, to what degree, if any, was Nyerere's involvement in the purpoted manipulation of the 1995 Zanzibar presidential vote. Because if he did influence it then that and that alone tarnishes his whole persona of a man of high intergrity.

Swali zuri sana mkuu, sasa ngoja tupate majibu!