Hivi SGR ya Kenya ni kwa ajili ya Watalii au Wakenya wa kawaida?


Latimore Mimo wangeci

Latimore Mimo wangeci

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
576
Likes
593
Points
180
Latimore Mimo wangeci

Latimore Mimo wangeci

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 1, 2019
576 593 180
sundoka kweli hukuingia shule. 1000shillings za Kenya ni 200,000 za bongolala? Njoo ufunzwe na watoto wa Chekechea hapa Kenya... bure kabisa.
mwambue ukweli,bongolalas hakuna.kitu wanajua apart from uchawi,yaani Tz hakuna diffrence ya mwenye alienda shule na mwenye ajaenda n most of em hawajawai kanyaga shule
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
Even Germany heavily subsidies rail transport.
In other words a loss to Kenya Railways is a gain to the individual pockets of the customer, even JPM ordered Tanesco to reduce electricity charges to household against sound financial advice that there needed to be a return on investment on capital used to build and maintain new and old power plants .



Anyway, loss of 10 billion on the first year of operation includes everything... yani what you get after you subtract revenue from expenditure.... one big factor that contributes to expenses was/is fuel expenses... but the good thing is that these operating costs will remain constant , it is estimated they will gradually rise to about 15 billion as more trains are added and they will stay there but as more cargo continues to increase the revenue will eventually outweigh the operating costs.....


In comperison, KQ which now has 40 planes has an operating cost of 56Billion ...
Boss, you should look at the SGR math keenly:
1. To make a decent margin you require to transport goods for long distances. The shorter the distance the less the profit(Mombasa to Nairobi is a loss,Mombasa to Naivasha proably is just near breakeven)

2. There are no funds to build the rail to malaba. The last time GoK was begging for a loan they were told to redo feasibiliy afresh and report in two weeks..4 months have passed nothing from china or James Macharia

3. SGR is not like road, there are design limitations, the engine can only pull 110 TEUs per trip. Even with double stacking you cannot exceede the maximum axel weight of 25T (You cannot stack 2 40ft containers, only possible to stack 2 20ft containers)

As I said, Kenya SGR is a monument to the gods of corruption just like the egyptian pyramids were monuments to their pagan gods
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Thika Road was actually a toll road long time ago untill the government saw it fit to have fuel levy and dismatle corrupt toll stations..Actually there is a place along thika road called Toll/ Tooro in Gikuyu just past ruiru..
I dont know who has fixed it in your head that people buy cars because of a road..The demand for new cars grows with the economy not roads..
Aboout SGR:
The Maximum combined cargo and passager trains per day is 24.. I think SGR is now doing 15 per day and already its demanding 1bn per month in subsidy..
SGR is not like a road, its limited to its traffic capacity especially since its a mono rail not a duo rail..
Here is the catch 22:
You cannot afford to expand SGR to allow more traffic to make the rail profitable
Yet, to make the rail profitable and cost per TEU cheap you need more traffic

This is just a monument like the egyptian pyramids
The SGR has a lot of cargo capacity. Unlike the weak SGR your'e constructing, ours can take double stacked containers.
It will take decades to get close to full capacity.
Also, when you say 24 trains per day, I don't know where you collect your figures. There is a reason we built so many stations so that trains can pass each other. With proper scheduling, we can do more.

You also assume that all the trains will start in Nairobi and stop in Mombasa, or vice versa. When complete, we have trains from Kisumu or Malaba and Naivasha, and especially with cargo, Mombasa doesn't have to be the final destination.
With the industrial park, Naivasha to Nairobi should be busy.

But I see you've finally seen the light and agreed that Thika road contributes no direct revenue, while the SGR has both direct and indirect revenue.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
The SGR has a lot of cargo capacity. Unlike the weak SGR your'e constructing, ours can take double stacked containers.
It will take decades to get close to full capacity.
Also, when you say 24 trains per day, I don't know where you collect your figures. There is a reason we built so many stations so that trains can pass each other. With proper scheduling, we can do more.

You also assume that all the trains will start in Nairobi and stop in Mombasa, or vice versa. When complete, we have trains from Kisumu or Malaba and Naivasha, and especially with cargo, Mombasa doesn't have to be the final destination.
With the industrial park, Naivasha to Nairobi should be busy.

But I see you've finally seen the light and agreed that Thika road contributes no direct revenue, while the SGR has both direct and indirect revenue.
Boss, understand that the SGR capacity to load is determined by the maximum axle load which is 25T..you can stack as many containers as you want but the axle load must not exceed 25T which is equivalent to Just 1 40Ft container..
The 24 trains per day is not a figure plucked from the Air, its with calculation of time used at train passing stations..
About thika Road:
Fuel levy paid by cars using the road is Direct Revenue..Indirect revenue is the more businesses that have sprung up along the road..and the new rentals -its suddely seems like everyone wants to live/rent along thika road
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Boss, understand that the SGR capacity to load is determined by the maximum axle load which is 25T..you can stack as many containers as you want but the axle load must not exceed 25T which is equivalent to Just 1 40Ft container..
The 24 trains per day is not a figure plucked from the Air, its with calculation of time used at train passing stations..
About thika Road:
Fuel levy paid by cars using the road is Direct Revenue..Indirect revenue is the more businesses that have sprung up along the road..and the new rentals -its suddely seems like everyone wants to live/rent along thika road
Your argument for Thika road keeps getting laughable.

In a single day, I can pass through Thika road, Mombasa road, Uhuru highway, Southern bypass, Waiyaki way, Ngong road, Langata road and countless other roads and feeder roads.
So, how much of the fuel levy went to pay for Thika road, and how much went to pay for Ngong road, Southern bypass and the rest.
Give me a break down and then we can calculate the direct revenue Thika road collects per day.

Also, if we assume Thika road was not built, can you give us a break down of how much fuel levy the government would be missing. After all its direct revenue. It should be easy to calculate.
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Boss, understand that the SGR capacity to load is determined by the maximum axle load which is 25T..you can stack as many containers as you want but the axle load must not exceed 25T which is equivalent to Just 1 40Ft container..
Don't bother with the technical details of the SGR. You lost that debate a long time ago when comparing the Kenyan one to the Ethiopian.
25 tonnes axle load maximum is the Ethiopian SGR. Ours is 25 tonne minimum.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
Your argument for Thika road keeps getting laughable.

In a single day, I can pass through Thika road, Mombasa road, Uhuru highway, Southern bypass, Waiyaki way, Ngong road, Langata road and countless other roads and feeder roads.
So, how much of the fuel levy went to pay for Thika road, and how much went to pay for Ngong road, Southern bypass and the rest.
Give me a break down and then we can calculate the direct revenue Thika road collects per day.

Also, if we assume Thika road was not built, can you give us a break down of how much fuel levy the government would be missing. After all its direct revenue. It should be easy to calculate.
The problem with you is comprehension..Fuel levy is direct revenue for all roads in kenya not Thika road only..The more a road has traffic the more the fuel levy, some roads in north eastern are at the bottom of the profitability chart..indeed some roads are making loses there but indirect benefits of opening up the remote areas makes economic sense
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
Don't bother with the technical details of the SGR. You lost that debate a long time ago when comparing the Kenyan one to the Ethiopian.
25 tonnes axle load maximum is the Ethiopian SGR. Ours is 25 tonne minimum.
I have never been intrested in Ethiopian Railway, and I have never discussed it here or anywhere else..
Axle load figure is never given as a "minimum" its always Maximum figure..Kenya SGR Maximum is 25T..If you have different figure bring the evidence or forever hold your silence
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
The problem with you is comprehension..Fuel levy is direct revenue for all roads in kenya not Thika road only..The more a road has traffic the more the fuel levy, some roads in north eastern are at the bottom of the profitability chart..indeed some roads are making loses there but indirect benefits of opening up the remote areas makes economic sense
You're trying so hard to force an indirect revenue to fit into your narrative for direct revenue. A tax that goes into the government Consolidated Fund, that funds the entire budget.

Every money raised by government from whatever taxes goes into the same pool, and it is budgeted from that pool. Otherwise if infrastructure projects were paying for themselves, no one would ever build hospitals and schools.
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
You're trying so hard to force an indirect revenue to fit into your narrative for direct revenue. A tax that goes into the government Consolidated Fund, that funds the entire budget.

Every money raised by government from whatever taxes goes into the same pool, and it is budgeted from that pool. Otherwise if infrastructure projects were paying for themselves, no one would ever build hospitals and schools.
You need to read this feasibility study for Thika road by Africa develepment bank and see the Economic analysis part. Thika road was sold as a profitable investment with direct and indirect revenue.
Next time try and use facts not feelings
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280

Attachments:

K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Boss I told you to give Max axle Load and reference an authentic document not cut and paste from ghost documents
Unlike you I read links and documents sent to me.
The one you've attached hoping I'll not read is about Thika road, and obviously has nothing about SGR axle load.

On the other side, the links I've sent you state clearly the axle load is 25 with a max of 32.
This is where you're supposed to tap out.
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
You need to read this feasibility study for Thika road by Africa develepment bank and see the Economic analysis part. Thika road was sold as a profitable investment with direct and indirect revenue.
Next time try and use facts not feelings
Beating around the bush as usual.

One moment, you and your mentor Ndii say that SGR will not break even, based on direct revenue collection.
Then here you are saying that Thika road is profitable, despite collecting zero revenue.
You have to be consistent.

At full operation, SGR will contribute an extra 1.5% to the GDP. It was never built to make money from fares.

If you were using the same barometer as Thika road and took off your bias glasses, you should measure its "break even" based on its contribution to the economy.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
Unlike you I read links and documents sent to me.
The one you've attached hoping I'll not read is about Thika road, and obviously has nothing about SGR axle load.

On the other side, the links I've sent you state clearly the axle load is 25 with a max of 32.
This is where you're supposed to tap out.
Yah i realised i mixed up the doc in the wrong comment..
That document was for you to refer and see thika road was proposed as a public investment with both direct and indirect revenue..
On SGR
where is your max load figure from an authentic document?
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
2,656
Likes
4,085
Points
280
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 16, 2018
2,656 4,085 280
Beating around the bush as usual.

One moment, you and your mentor Ndii say that SGR will not break even, based on direct revenue collection.
Then here you are saying that Thika road is profitable, despite collecting zero revenue.
You have to be consistent.

At full operation, SGR will contribute an extra 1.5% to the GDP. It was never built to make money from fares.

If you were using the same barometer as Thika road and took off your bias glasses, you should measure its "break even" based on its contribution to the economy.
Both Thika road and SGR were sold as economicaly viable projects with both direct and indirect benefits.
Thika road has turned a profit on both measures.
SGR has not turned a profit and with its inherent design limitations and price per TEU it will never turn a profit atleast on direct revenue
On indirect revenue -its hard to evaluate, mombasa- Naivasha route is already opened up by roads, there is little or no activity on the many stations..no malls, no business nothing! Unlike thika road that has the highest number of malls alongside it and so much indirect economic activities have sprung up
 
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
2,225
Likes
1,394
Points
280
K

kennedy0000

JF-Expert Member
Joined Apr 14, 2012
2,225 1,394 280
Both Thika road and SGR were sold as economicaly viable projects with both direct and indirect benefits.
Thika road has turned a profit on both measures.
SGR has not turned a profit and with its inherent design limitations and price per TEU it will never turn a profit atleast on direct revenue
On indirect revenue -its hard to evaluate, mombasa- Naivasha route is already opened up by roads, there is little or no activity on the many stations..no malls, no business nothing! Unlike thika road that has the highest number of malls alongside it and so much indirect economic activities have sprung up
SGR only needs to pay for its day to day running. It is not a profit minting project.
If it ends up actually turning a profit, that will be welcome but wasn't the main reason for construction.
When the line is complete and all logistic hurdles sorted, now you can judge it if it doesn't pay for its own operation.

And you keep missing the point. When you say there are no malls etc, you are ignoring the fact that the SGR was a freight first line. There will be 56 locomotives, and only 4 have been designated for passengers.
That tells you where the focus is.

Also, when all phases are complete, traffic and frequency of rides will go up. The already booming business at stations will also go up substantially.
 

Forum statistics

Threads 1,262,349
Members 485,558
Posts 30,120,958