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Hawking: God did not create Universe

Discussion in 'Tech, Gadgets & Science Forum' started by babu M, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. babu M

    babu M JF-Expert Member

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    Hannah Devlin
    Last updated September 2 2010

    Modern physics leaves no place for God in the creation of the Universe, Stephen Hawking has concluded.

    Just as Darwinism removed the need for a creator in the sphere of biology, Britain's most eminent scientist argues that a new series of theories have rendered redundant the role of a creator for the Universe.

    In his forthcoming book, an extract from which is published exclusively in
    Eureka, published today with The Times, Professor Hawking sets out to answer the question: "Did the Universe need a creator?" The answer he gives is a resounding "no".

    Far from being a once-in-a-million event that could only be accounted for by extraordinary serendipity or a divine hand, the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, Hawking says.
    "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist," he writes.

    "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the Universe going," he finds.
    Professor Hawking's book is a significant breakaway from previous views he has published on religion. In A Brief History of Time, he was accommodating of religious beliefs, suggesting that God as Creator was not incompatible with a scientific understanding of the Universe. "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we should know the mind of God," he wrote in the 1988 bestseller.

    In his new book, The Grand Design, published on September 9, a week before the Pope's visit to Britain, he sets out a comprehensive thesis that the scientific framework leaves no room for a deity.
    In the book, co-authored by the American physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking deconstructs Sir Isaac Newton's belief that the Universe could not have arisen out of chaos due to the mere laws of Nature, but must have been created by God.

    Hawking writes that the first blow was the confirmed observation in 1992 of a planet orbiting a star other than our Sun. "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions - the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass - far less remarkable and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

    Not only other planets, but whole other universes, known collectively as the multiverse, are likely to exist, according to Professor Hawking, who until he retired last year held the same post as Newton, Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge. If God's intention was to create mankind, then these many untouchable worlds would surely be redundant, he suggests.

    Richard Dawkins, a biologist and fierce proponent of atheism, welcomed the book, describing it as Darwinism for the very fabric of Nature, not just the creatures living within it. "That's exactly what he's saying," said Professor Dawkins. "I know nothing of the details of the physics but I had always assumed the same thing."
    However others, such as Professor George Ellis, an emeritus professor at the University of Cape Town and President of the International Society for Science and Religion, were less impressed. "My biggest problem with this is that it's presenting the public with a choice: science or religion. A lot of people will say, ‘OK, I choose religion, then' and it is science that will lose out," he said.

    In the book, Professor Hawking also suggests that philosophy as a science is dead but intriguingly leaves open the prospect of life in other universes.

    He predicts that physics is on the brink of writing a theory of everything, a single framework that can entirely explain the properties of Nature. Such a theory has been the holy grail for physicists since the time of Einstein but until now it has been impossible to reconcile quantum theory, which explains the sub-atomic world, with gravity, which explains how objects interact on the cosmological scale.

    Professor Hawking suggests that M-theory, a form of string theory, will achieve this goal. He writes: "M-theory is the unified theory Einstein was hoping to find. The fact that we human beings - who are ourselves mere collections of fundamental particles of nature - have been able to come this close to an understanding of the laws governing us and our universe is a great triumph."

    While agreeing that advances in theoretical physics were impressive, others argue they had little to contribute to a debate about the possible existence of God.

    Frank Close, a theoretical physicist at the University of Oxford, said: "Given the vast numbers of stars in our known Universe, God's efficiency may already be called into question: if the sole aim was to create you, me and Stephen Hawking, would not one solar system have been enough? I don't see that M-theory adds one iota to the God debate, either pro or con,"

    Rather than being a single master equation, Professor Hawking suggests that M-theory will be a "whole family" of theories existing within a consistent theoretical framework. Much like the way different maps - political, geographical, topological - can map a single region without contradicting each other, M-theory will map different aspects of the material world.

    The extract is already available to read in the September issue of Eureka magazine (free with The Times on September 2) and will be available online from September 6

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  2. Kiby

    Kiby JF-Expert Member

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    We human being need not Stephen H explanation to survive, neither nature need scientific research for it's existance.
    God is our only firmly hope for our destination!
  3. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    I was thinking exactly the same thing.
  4. Saint Ivuga

    Saint Ivuga JF-Expert Member

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    Are you also tha Crazy?
  5. Msanii

    Msanii JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu mtu ni kichaa na disable kama anavyoonekana.
  6. Eliphaz the Temanite

    Eliphaz the Temanite JF-Expert Member

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    21Wakati huo, Yesu akiwa amejawa na furaha ya Roho Mtaka tifu, akasema, ``Ninakushukuru Baba, Bwana wa mbingu na nchi, kwa sababu mambo haya ambayo umewaficha wenye elimu na wenye hekima umependa kuwafunulia wale wakuaminio kama watoto wadogo. Na haya yote yamefanyika kwa mapenzi yako Baba. 22Baba yangu amenika bidhi mambo yote. Hakuna anayemfahamu Mwana isipokuwa Baba: na hakuna anayemfahamu Baba isipokuwa Mwana na wale ambao Mwana ame penda humdhihirisha Baba kwao.''

    ".....Wale wakuaminio kama watoto wadogo.." I like this sentence Hakuna sababu ya kubishana na wenye hekima zao tuwaaxhe waendeleena thepry zao.
  7. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Why are you saying that ?
  8. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa nini unamuita kichaa? Watu disabled hawawezi kufikiri? Scam iko wapi?

    Idea ya mungu ndiyo scam kubwa kuliko zote zilizowahi kutokea duniani.
  9. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Psychology kubwa hiyo ya kukufumba macho, ukitaka kumjua baba usiulize kitu, muamini kama mtoto mdogo, toa zaka na uheshimu utawala.

    Guess nani kaendeleza propaganda hizi za mungu? The clergy ( wote waliosoma theology wanajua hamna mungu) na wafalme waliokuwa na interest ya kuwa na a docile populace.

    Wewe nifuate tu, usiniulize. Sasa kama hukutaka nikuulize utashi wa kuuliza ulinipia wa nini?

    Ukichunguza sana utaona wala hakuna contradiction, kwa sababu anayesema "nifuate usiniulize" wala si mungu, ni watu wanaowa control watu wengine kwa kupitia jina la mungu. Hakuna mungu wala nini.
  10. N

    Ndjabu Da Dude JF-Expert Member

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    Jee, ni asilimia ngapi ya binadamu dunia nzima leo wanao amini kuwa Mungu yupo? Wote hao ni wajinga ukilinganisha na wewe mwenye akili za ajabu na weledi wa pekee hadi kung'amua kuwa Mungu hayupo?
  11. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Very weak argument.

    Kabla ya Copernicus na Galileo, asilimia ngapi ya binadamu waliamini kwamba dunia iko katikati ya ulimwengu na kwamba jua linazunguka dunia? Je, wingi huu wa walioamini uongo ulibadilisha ukweli kuwa uongo ?

    The truth does not care about democracy, facts are not changed by human opinion, hata kama wanadamu wote wa duniani wakiamini kwamba jua linazunguka dunia, hili halitabadilisha ukweli kwamba dunia inazunguka jua.

    Kamwe usipange maisha yako kwa kufuata mkumbo wa kuangalia "binadamu wengi wanafanyaje". Ukifanya hivyo utakuwa mzembe wa kuwaza, inabidi uchambue mambo mwenyewe na kupata majibu yako mwenyewe.
  12. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

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    sielewi kwa nini watu wanatabia ya kuwadhalilisha na kuwatusi wale wasiokubaliana na mawazo yao.

    btw umekusudia both kichaa na disable yabebe maana hasi au ni kosa la kiuandishi?
  13. B

    ByaseL JF-Expert Member

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    By Michael Holden Michael Holden – Thu Sep 2, 9:08 am ET

    LONDON (Reuters) – God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.

    In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

    "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

    "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."
    Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity.

    Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles.
    His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.

    He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."
    In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.
    "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

    Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed.

    He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons."

    Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979.
    "The Grand Design" is due to go on sale next week.
  14. E=mcsquared

    E=mcsquared JF-Expert Member

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    Wishful thinking!
  15. Eliphaz the Temanite

    Eliphaz the Temanite JF-Expert Member

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    ati dunia iko katikati ya ulimwengu?
    Kirango's theory!
    Coach hapo amenivunja mbavu? Wakati mwingine nyie wenye weledi mkubwa mpaka kung'amua Mungu hayupo mnapaswa kuuulizwa kwa mifano ya ki-layman kama hiyo!
    Sisi wakristo hatuna maabala ya kumpima Mungu, wala hatuna haja ya kutafuta ku-prove uwepo wa Mungu maana tunafahamu dhahiriya kwamba baba yetu wa mbimguni ndiye aliyeiumba dunia hii! Hatulazimishwi kumfuata Mungu, wala hatujilaumu ni sehemu ya maisha yetu and we cherish every moment in God's presence!
  16. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Hiyo habari ya heliocentrism na geocentrism sijui hata kama umeielewa nilivyoisema. Coach Parcells kaja hapa na habari ya kwamba kitakachoaminiwa na binadamu wengi lazima kiwe sawa, mimi nikamwambia mbona watu waliamini jua linazunguka dunia, na waliamini pia kwamba dunia ilikuwa katikati ya ulimwengu, lakini imani hii haikubadilisha ukweli kwamba jua halizunguki dunia (dunia inazunguka jua) na dunia si katikati ya ulimwengu (ulimwengu uko homogeneous na popote panaweza kuitwa katikati kama vile popote kwenye uso wa duara panavyoweza kuitwa katikati). Kwa kifupi nilikuwa naonyesha kwamba hiii habari ya kuacha ukweli uamuliwe kwa "wengi wape" unaweza kutupotosha. Ukweli utabaki ukweli tu hata kama dunia nzima itaukataa. Kama watu hawawezi ku prove kwamba mungu yupo, na hawawezi kutuambia kwamba mungu yupo as a matter of fact, hata kama watu wote wa dunia wakiamini kuna mungu hili halitabadilisha ukweli kwamba mungu hayupo. Faith does not make it's own set of facts.

    Halafu unaandika

    Huwezi kufahamu kwa dhahiri kitu ambacho huwezi ku prove.

    Kwa hiyo either unaweza ku prove kwamba mungu yupo, au huwezi kuprove na hujui kwa hakika, ila unaamini. Kuamini na kujua ni vitu viwili tofauti.

    Ukiniambia unaamini kwamba mungu yupo mimi sina matatizo nawe, imani kila mtu ana haki ya kuwa nayo yoyote anayoitaka ilimradi haiathiri wengine, hata ukitaka kuamini mwezi umetengenezwa kwa jibini ni haki yako kuamini hivyo.

    Ukitaka kusema unajua kwamba mwezi umetengenezwa kwa jibini, au kwamba kuna mungu, unatoka katika maswala ya imani na kuingia katika uwanja wa fact sasa. Hapo ndipo utaulizwa uthibitishie watu.

    Unawezaje kuthibitisha kwamba mungu huyu personal unayemsema hapo juu yupo ?
  17. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    The biggest notion of wishful thinking is the god idea, there has never been, and I doubt that there ever will be in the foreseeable future any idea that carries within it so blatant a lie, yet so sweet a comfort, than that of a personal god. And because the comfort is so sweet, and the reality so terrible, humankind, like a child who cannot handle the truth and would prefer to be told sweet lies in place of harsh truths, is very ready to accept the god idea for psychological reasons, even though these reasons are purely irrational and baseless.

    Mankind wants to believe that it is rational, that we humans can reason and this is what distinguishes us from animals. But to me it seems we still have a long way to go. How can a rational society explain an irrational god who strikes hundred of thousands of the poorest of the world with disaster after disaster ? Indeed, if god had all the powers to create any universe that he liked, and also the good heart of love that he is reputed to have, why then did he create this awful world with all the evils ? This is why Hawking says if there is a god 9 and by god let's not limit ourselves to a personal Judeo Christian god, some people believe the symmetry of math is their god) then god was powerless in the process of "creation", that the laws of physics were bound to create something regardless.

    I fail to understand why would one say that the person who denies the existence of god is engaging in "wishful thinking". The god idea is very appealing, very comforting psychologically, it absolves people of responsibility.If something goies wrong people can always say "mapenzi ya mungu" as Kikwete did when lamenting the demise of small miners after a fatal mining "accident", an "accident" mainly caused by negligence nad poor quality control. So we find comfort in the god idea, we bestow all our responsibilities on god, if we fail, sometimes instead of working harder we pray, the easy way out. This is the real wishful thinking.

    It is wishful thinking to believe there is a god, it is not wishful thinking not to believe in a god. A characteristic of wishful thinking is to look for the easy way out as described above. You do not embark on a bout of wishful thinking with thoughts of hardship, being a pauper, a fatherless orphan.No you do not. If at all you are to embark on a wallowing of wishful thinking, you will do the reverse, you will think about the life of ease, being some prince with a powerful king as a father and protector and what Tracy Chapman called "Mountains of things".

    To me, the person who acknowledges that there is no god, is basically acknowledging that we are orphans with no father god to protect us, we have to take care of ourselves. How can one who is acknowledging being an orphan be in wishful thinking?

    To me, the person who says that there is a personal, powerful and loving god, even though there is'nt an iota of evidence to show so, is surely enganging in wishful thinking. As sure as the pauper orphan who keeps thinking that he is the prince of a powerful kingdom with a noble and benevolent King for a father.

    Professor Hawking and the atheists who support him in asserting the cold fact that the universe does not need a personal god, or indeed any supernatural power, to exist, could never be wishful thinkers. The believers -belief in it's very essence is wishful thinking by the way- it id the believers who are wishful thinkers.
  18. Makanyaga

    Makanyaga JF-Expert Member

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    You are in a denial of a very basic reality in life! Kwa vile watu wataendelea kuzaliwa bila wao kuchagua (evidence) na watendelea kufa wapende wasipende (evidence), then Higher Powers beyond human control exist! Hatuwezi ku-deny their existence simply they are irrational or destructive in some ways, au simply kwa sababu kuna wengine wamezi-impersonate au wameziita jina Mungu! Mimi naweza kuamua hata nikaziita Ng,ombe, whether niko sawa au la, kosa langu halifanyi hizo nguvu kutokuwepo, simply nimekosea kuziita, au nimezi-regard katika hali ya kiubinadamu hivi.

    More over, watu kumchukulia Mungu kuwa yuko loving, rational wakati kumbe anaweza kuwa siyo loving na pia akawa ni irrational (kama ulivyosema), bado hii siyo evidence ya kumfanya yeye asiwepo. Kosa letu sisi la kumpa sifa zinazostahili, halimfanyi asiwepo!

  19. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa hiyo wewe unataka Mungu ageuze dunia na kuondoa umaskini kwa vile yeye ni Love and therefore has compassion?hahaha!u cldn't be more wrong! Kwani shetani alivyomwambia Yesu apige goti chini na kumwabudu, na atampa dunia yote...wewe unadhani kwa nini Yesu hakubisha kuwa dunia sio yake? U simply have failed to understand the meaning of the fall of man!and very few people have a grasp of that concept. Anguko la mwanadamu carried not only the entry of sin into the world, but there was actually a transaction. Mankind gave away the dominion ( control) which was given by God to him of the earth to the devil. So the prince of this world is the devil, na kama unamtu yeyote wa kumlalamikia kwa umaskini, mauaji, nk ni shetani. U r leaving in his environment chasing illusions and mirages. Ndo maana Paulo anasema "We are in this world, but not of this world". Na ndo maana chenye kuharibika lazima kivae kisichoharibika. Nawaonea watu kama huyu jamaa huruma kweli! pamoja na akili zote, he simply doesnt understand jack! Mwambie ajaribu basi ku-create hiyo universe kutoka a big bang to just the creation of a planet! chasing illusions i say!
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    Sep 9, 2010
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    Wewe hujaelewa swali langu, swala si kwamba nataka "mungu ageuze dunia na kuondoa umasikini". Swala ni kwamba, kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ukiwamo uwezo wa kuumba dunia isiyowezekanika kuwa na umasikini, magonjwa, upweke, kifo na uovu mwingine wowote, kwa nini mungu mwenye upendo mkuu na uwezo mkuu atengeneze ulimwengu wenye mabaya haya?

    Wewe ungekuwa na uwezo wa kutengeneza ulimwengu usio na maovu, na tuseme una upendo mkuu usio kifani, ungetaka kutengeneza ulimwengu uwezekanao kuwa na maovu ?

    Je alilazimika kutengeneza ulimwengu huu kama ulivyo? Hakuwa na uchaguzi? Ilimbidi autengeneze hivi ? Kama alilazimika nitamsamehe kwenye upande wa dunia kuwa na maovu, maana hakuwa na jinsi. Lakini ukishasema ilimbidi na hakuwa na jinsi unaondoa tabia ya uungu ya uwezo wa yote, kama mungu alifungwa na mambo fulani, ikambidi kuumba ulimwengu ambao unawezekana kuwa na maovu, huyu si mungu muweza yote.

    La kama haikumbidi, na aliweza kuumba ulimwengu usiowezekanika kuwa na maovu, usiuowezekanika kuwa na shetani, usiowezekanika kuwa na njaa, usiowezekanika kuwa na magonjwa, kama aliweza kuumba ulimwengu huu, halafu hakutaka kuuumba, akataka kuuumba ulimwengu huu tuujuao wenye maovu, then nitakubali kwamba mungu ana uwezo wote na angeweza hata kuumba ulimwengu usio maovu. Lakini nitajiuliza, hivi kweli huyu mungu ana upendo mkuu kama anavyodaiwa? Kama ana upendo mkuu na anatupenda kwa nini katuuumba katika ulimwengu wenye maovu hivi ?

    Napata picha kama vile mimi ni mtu masikini sana, ninayeishi kwa kula na kulala majaani, halafu anakuja mtu ananiambia wewe unajua baba yako ni mfalme tajiri sana, anayejua kila kitu na kuweza kila kitu, na ana upendo usio kifani si kwako tu, bali kwa watu wote.

    Swali la kwanza kujiuliza ni, imekuwaje huyu baba mwenye uwezo wote, na upendo wote, aniachie niwe katika umasikini huu ? Ni kwamba alikuwa na uwezo wa kuninusuru lakini hakunijali ? Au alinijali lakini hakuwa na uwezo wa kuninusuru ?

    Hawezi kuwa alinijali na pia alikuwa na uwezo wa kuninusuru, maana ingekuwa hivyo nisingekuwa katika umasikini huu.

    Sasa mungu aliweza kuumba ulimwengu usio maovu na hakutaka tu? Ikiwa hivyo ana upendo mkuu kweli ?

    Au alitaka kuumba ulimwengu usio maovu lakini hakuweza ? Ikiwa hivyo ana uwezo mkuu kweli ?

    Ukiangalia sana unaona hii idea ya mungu, hususan huyu Judeo Christian personal god wa biblia na Quran, imejaa makosa ambayo hata binadamu anaye design computer software hatakiwi kuyafanya.