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Disgraced Pastor Haggard admits second relationship

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by BAK, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Disgraced pastor Haggard admits second relationship with man

    CNN) -- Evangelical pastor Ted Haggard described Thursday as "fundamentally true" an assertion that he engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a 20-year-old male volunteer in 2006.

    Pastor Ted Haggard acknowledged on CNN's "Larry King Live" that he had a second relationship with a man.​

    The incident occurred when the two men were in bed together, Grant Haas said in a videotaped interview played on CNN's "Larry King Live."

    "He pretty much asked me if it was OK if he masturbated in front of me or masturbated in the bed next to me," Haas said. "I told him no, it would make me really uncomfortable. But he grabbed a bottle of lotion and started masturbating."

    Haas added, "(Haggard) used to say to me, 'You know what, Grant, you can become a man of God, and you can have a little bit of fun on the side."

    Haggard, 52, said the incident was "an indicator of the compulsive behavior" that ruled him at the time. However, he said he has been undergoing therapy during the two years since and "working it out." Watch Haggard accuser speak out »

    Controversy involving Haggard first erupted in November 2006, when a former prostitute, Mike Jones, said the pastor had paid him for sex over three years and had used methamphetamine in his presence.

    Haggard initially admitted in interviews that he received a massage from Jones but denied having sex with him. He also said he bought methamphetamine, but threw it away instead of using it.

    Don't Miss
    Haggard: I contemplated suicide after first scandal
    Disgraced pastor Haggard facing new sex allegations
    Haggard: 'I'm guilty of so many things'
    The assertions received widespread news coverage and sparked charges of hypocrisy, particularly because Haggard had condemned homosexual sex. Watch Haggard address allegations on Oprah »

    Haggard is the former president of the National Association of Evangelicals, which claims to represent millions of people in 45,000 congregations nationwide. He was also the head pastor at New Life Church.

    In a settlement with New Life, the church and Haggard agreed that he would retain his six-figure salary for a year, leave the Colorado Springs area, receive counseling and not speak publicly about what had happened for one year, according to a church staff member with knowledge of the settlement but who was not authorized to speak on the record.

    In the CNN interview, Haggard credited Jones with having helped him by disclosing that information.

    "I think he rescued me. I'm very grateful to him," Haggard said. He said he would have lost the support of his wife of 30 years, Gail, and their five children "and been a drug addict" had he not been caught.

    "I paid a heavy price. It was stupid," he said.

    Haggard likened his struggles with his desires to the struggles faced by dieters who say, "'I'm not going to eat today' and then they eat."

    "Many of the charges against me are exaggerated, but it doesn't matter," Haggard told Larry King. "I'm guilty enough of so many things."

    He acknowledged that his actions were hypocritical, but said he could not control his urges.

    "I felt like God's plan was for sexuality to be in a monogamous, heterosexual marriage," he said. "I wanted that. But at the same time, I had these other things going on."

    Haggard said he had thought that focusing on his spiritual life would help, but found that it did not. "It actually made me worse," he said.

    Haggard said that, for a time, he lost the ability to read the Scriptures and became suicidal. "I think it was divine intervention that stopped me," he said.

    Asked if he has engaged in inappropriate conduct with any other men, Haggard did not give a direct answer, saying only, "I have thoroughly discussed all of my sexual history with my wife and my therapist and, to some degree, the family, and we think that's an appropriate boundary for that."

    Asked whether he considers himself bisexual or gay, Haggard said that different therapists have described him in different ways. "The first said, 'You are a heterosexual with homosexual attachments.' I wasn't sure what that meant."

    His current therapist, he said, described him as "a heterosexual with complications."

    Haggard said he has, at least, another year of therapy ahead of him.

    "I think I'm still deeply wounded and scarred and somewhat confused," he said. About other men, he added, "I have thoughts from time to time, but not compelling thoughts."

    Nevertheless, he said, "Today, I'm 100 percent satisfied with my relationship with my wife, and I have no compelling things in my life toward others."

    He said he initially urged his wife to leave him, but she refused.

    "I really do love this man," she told CNN when asked why she did not leave. But it was also her faith that led her to stick with the marriage, she said. "The teaching of Jesus is that we forgive and that we love."

    She said the two had "a great sexual relationship in our marriage ... throughout marriage."

    Though the news of his unfaithfulness came as a shock, it wasn't completely out of the blue, she said. "I knew that Ted had some struggles in this area, particularly in his thoughts. I never knew that he acted on them."

    Marcus Haggard, the couple's 25-year-old son, said he, too, was shocked by the revelations, but was more disturbed to learn that his father had lied. Still, he said the news brought the family closer together.

    "He had lived so long on a pedestal," Marcus Haggard said about his famous father. "He seemed practically perfect. There was a sense of relief in the fact that we could connect with our dad."

    Asked if he wants to return to the pulpit, Haggard said, "I think Gail and I both want to tell our story to the degree that it's helpful to other people. I don't know that that would mean a pulpit, but certainly I'd be interested in public speaking."
  2. Exaud J. Makyao

    Exaud J. Makyao JF-Expert Member

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    God have Mercy.
  3. S

    Simoni Member

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    Aaasamehewee. Amiiiina.
  4. B

    Bulesi JF-Expert Member

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  5. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Haya ya ma padiri kulawiti na kulawitiwa na kashfa nyingi za mpaka kuharibu watoto tunayasikia sana, ama kweli nawapa pole nyingi wa-kiristo kwa kuongozwa na watu kama hawa, wasije wakawaharibu waumini wao kwa haya wayafanyayo, mnhhh, kama bado.

    Poleni sana, wazo la bure: hebu tafuteni alternatives, haya mambo ni aibu tupu na si yakuwachiwa na kunyamaziwa.

    Tazama kama huyu mtu kwenye habari hii ni mtu mzito sana kwenye kanisa huyu, au yule wa kanis la anglikana aliyeolewa, sasa hii inakuwaje jamani?
  6. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu pastor pamoja na kufichaficha UOZO wake, Mwenyezi Mungu amemuumbua at last. Lakini hebu twende mbele tutupie macho mpendwa wetu mtume wetu mtukufu mambo yalikuwaje?

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
    Narrated 'Aisha:
    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

    NB: Nine years in lunar calendar (arabic) means something less than 9 years of our Cesar Calendar..

    Swali la kujiuliza ni JE NA YEYE ALAANIWE? Tulitegemea pastor na mtume wa mungu wote wawe na maadili swafi, na pengine tulitegemea zaidi kutoka kwa mtume. Huyu pastor ameona kosa lake na kutubu, lakini kwa mtume wetu kipenzi chetu sisi tulioamini hatukuwahi kusikia akitubu HII DHAMBI YAKE YA PEDOFILIA NA NYINGINEZO.. JE NI KWELI ALIKUWA MTUME..Au zuga?

  7. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Aliye post hii thread ni mnazi na anaupungufu wa uelewo. Habari za Ted ni nzee sawa na umri wa mtoto. Zaidi ya hapo, Ted amekiri madhambi yake, soma nuku hapo chini.

    “The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality. And I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life,” he said.

    Kwahiyo basi, aliyeweka hii mada hapa AMBAYE NI BUBU WA AKILI ni mpenzi wa malumbano na si mtoa habari kwasababu habari hii niliisha isikia ilipokuwa hot miaka kibao iliyopita na imepitwa na wakati.


    Why will someone give outdated news? Kama si tatizo la madrasa na inferior kwa Wakristo ni nini?
  8. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu jamaa alikuwa kwa Larry King wiki iliyopita, hii si oudated article hata tarehe ya URL inaonyesha hivyo. Kama hujui kitu uliza ili upate kujua vizuri!!! badala ya kukurupuka na kutoa lawama zisizo na msingi wowote!!!! Siyo lazima uwe Muislamu ili kupinga unafiki na utendaji dhambi wa pastor kama huyu. Hata wakristo pia wanalaani unafiki wa unaofanywa na mapastors wanaojifanya kuhubiri neno la Mungu na wakati huo huo kutumia makanisa ili kufanya ufirauni wao wa kuwalawiti watoto wadogo, kutembea na wake za watu n.k.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/lkl.ted.haggard/index.html]Disgraced pastor Haggard admits second relationship with man - CNN.com
  9. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Do you know or remember which year this news was first aired? Do you know which year Ted consented his error? Let us be serious in what we post here.

  10. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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  11. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Hebu angalia hiyo tarehe sasa kama ilitokea mwaka 47 na wiki iliyopita akaenda tena kwa Larry King kuzungumzia dhambi zake alizotenda hairuhusiwi kupost hapa!? Tangu lini wewe umeteuliwa hapa JF kuamua nini kinachostahili kuwekwa hapa ukumbini na kipi kisichostahili!!? Geee!!! watu wengine bwana!!! Kazi kweli kweli!!!! Tengeneza forum yako na huko utaamua nini kinaruhusiwa kutumwa na nini hakiruhusiwi kutumwa, lakini siyo hapa JF, ubavu huo hapa huna!!!!
  12. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Haa ahaha aha, you just wrote garbage. Inaoneka hukufanya research kabla ya kubandika utumbo wako.


    Hii news ilikuwa hot wakati Bush anagombea tena urais. Huu ni msaada wa bure kwa MABUBU.

    Go and do your research. I don't babysit people.
  13. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Matusi hayatakufikisha popote bali ni kujidhalilisha tu kwa kuonyesha uwezo wako finyu wa kutetea hoja yako. Umeweka mbele kuanzisha shari hapa ukumbini kila kukicha sijui una matatizo gani katika maisha yako ya kila siku mpaka upende matusi na shari kiasi hicho. Haya kila la heri na hiyo negative attitude yako uliyonayo.
  14. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    The news is old, that is the bottom line. Why you post it, it is a shame and sad.

    Max was sawa aliposema kuwa thread hii ni ya kidini na kishari na si kwa madhumuni ya kutoa habari na imepitwa na wakati. Haya ni mambo ya 2004/06. Don't you see it is old?
  15. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Hii sheria hapa JF ya kutopost habari ya zamani imeanza lini na nani kaipitisha? Narudia tena hii habari si ya zamani. Jamaa alikuwa kwa Larry King live Alhamisi iliyopita, hivyo hii habari ni habari mpya. Hawezi yeyote hapa ukumbini kuniamulia nini ninachostahili kupost provided that sijavunja sheria za ukumbi huu, kama mna maoni tofauti pelekeni malalamiko yenu kwa moderators wanifungie milele kwa kupost jumbe "iliyopitwa na wakati, ya kidini na pia ya kishari". Oooh! God sijaongeza wala kupunguza neno katika ujumbe huu, CNN haikuona tatizo lolote kuiweka habari hii ya "kishari na kidini" katika web site yao lakini hapa JF inazua kasheshe ya hali juu!!! Duh! Kazi kweli kweli!!!! je ningeongeza au kupunguza neno si ndiyo ingekuwa vita kabisa halafu wanasahau kwamba JF's motto ni where we dare to talk openly!!!!

    Thu January 29, 2009

    Haggard to King: I'm guilty enough of so many things
    Pastor Ted Haggard says he's working out issues through counseling

    Haggard says he first had feelings about men in high school

    Haggard's wife says she was shocked, but has forgiven him

    (CNN) -- Evangelical pastor Ted Haggard spoke to CNN's Larry King on Thursday about Haggard's relationship with a male escort, which resulted in his being fired from the influential megachurch that he founded. Haggard also spoke about allegations of another relationship with a man. Haggard's wife, Gayle Haggard, also shared her feelings. Here are excerpts of the interview.

    Ted Haggard tells Larry King, "I'm guilty enough of so many things that I just said, I'm a deceiver, I'm a liar, I'm a hypocrite."

    Larry King: February 2005, Time magazine lists you as one of the 20 most influential evangelicals in the United States.
    What happened?

    Ted Haggard: Well, I made the worst mistake in my life. I embarrassed my wife and violated her and my children and everybody that trusted me and myself. I -- I did some things that were contrary to the things that I believe. And -- and I made a mess of my life.

    King: Were these feelings about men, were these feelings that you had for a long time?

    Haggard: Well, the first I remember them is in high school. And -- but I never acted on them. I married Gayle in college. It was a wonderful relationship with Gayle through the years. And -- but I would, I'd wrestle with it and I would have to deal with it and struggle with them. And then I reached a point where I...

    King: Gave in?

    Don't Miss
    Haggard: I contemplated suicide after first scandal
    Disgraced pastor facing new allegations
    New accuser: 'He really thought he was invincible'
    Haggard: Gave in. I did it. And I'm guilty of many of the things that -- but I'm guilty enough. Many of the charges against me are exaggerated, but it doesn't matter. I'm guilty enough of so many things that I just said, I'm a deceiver, I'm a liar, I'm a hypocrite, I've got to work these things out. And we've spent the last two years in the desert personally and going through counseling and working it out.

    King: Did you not, though, preach against homosexuality?

    Haggard: Yes, I did. And I...

    King: Wasn't that hypocritical?

    Haggard: It was hypocritical. Absolutely, it was. And the reason I did was because I have a belief system that I still have. I believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe in being born again, those things that are fundamental to Christianity.

    And I knew that the Bible was a set of ideals. The Bible says God hates divorce, but we know that lots of fine, wonderful people have to go through the horrible experiences of divorce.

    We know that the Bible says pray continually. And I'm not giving it as an excuse, but I knew -- I knew that the Bible taught that sexuality was -- I felt like God's plan was for sexuality to be in a monogamous, heterosexual marriage. And I wanted that for myself. I wanted to please God. But at the same time, I had these other things going on and I ended up violating my wife and family and everything.

    King: And since you didn't know why you had them going on -- no one knows why they are...

    Haggard: Right. No, we didn't know.

    King: So you didn't choose it. You didn't say, boy, I want to be -- have these feelings.

    Haggard: Right. Exactly.

    King: Didn't you question your beliefs?

    Haggard: I -- especially in the last two years, I've gone through quite a struggle. Prior to the scandal, just I thought if I were more spiritual, I would be OK. So I would pray and fast. I'd read my Bible.

    I'd memorize more scripture. I'd do things like that.

    And it actually made me worse -- the struggle was worse on the inside of me.

    And since then, my counselor has explained why. And -- and so I'm really grateful to be where I am now. I should have gone to counseling years and years and years ago to work it out.

    King: In recent days the revelation of what you called an inappropriate relationship between you and a young male church volunteer back in 2006. That was Grant Haas.

    Haggard: Yes.

    King: He told CNN about what happened. True?

    Haggard: Fundamentally true. The specifics aren't quite right, but it doesn't matter.

    What matters is that -- that is an indicator of the compulsive behavior that was going on in my life during that time period.

    King: How long ago was this?

    Haggard: Over two years ago. Since that time, I met with him and one of the church overseers and Gayle and asked for his forgiveness. And all of our children -- when he decided to come out and talk about that -- as our kids came in the other night, I said Grant Haas is going to go public. And every one of them knew about it. And they said oh, really -- and went on about their evening.

    King: Did that get you in more trouble with the church?

    Haggard: No. They knew about it. They knew about it two years ago. And I wasn't involved in their dealings with that. I was already out. But no, that's all over two years old.

    King: You could have spoken two years ago, right? It was just the church that stopped you?

    Haggard: Yes. Uh-huh. Yes, the church. And I think they wanted to protect me from myself. They knew I was confused, disillusioned, disappointed in myself. And -- and they did the best they could.

    Pastor Brady Boyd, New Life Church: I want to tell you something from my pastor's heart to you -- that I'm sorry that this wound has been reopened for many of you. I'm very sorry. And I want you to tell something, one day -- we may have a little scar tissue, but the wound will not always define us. The wound will not always be with us.

    King: Comment?

    Haggard: Well, he's a good man and he's doing a good job and we highly respect him. He's -- he's visited our home a couple of times in the last few weeks and we love him deeply. And he's doing a good job.

    I think the wound has not healed. And I don't think we're reopening it. I think what's happening is it's been festering. And we needed communication. And we needed to process it. And it can't process.

    Separation and lack of communication never heals broken relationships. And so I appreciate what he's saying there. And I want people to heal. So I think in this process what we're doing is we're just kind of cleaning out some of the things and making it so it can heal.

    And I mean, at my Web site, I have loads of New Lifers writing to me now. And they saw me on "Oprah" or have seen some of the shows where I'm saying I'm sorry. And they're writing about how healing it is to hear my voice and hear me say I am sorry for what happened.

    King: What -- what's the Web site?

    Haggard: TedHaggard.com.

    Mike Jones: My name is Mike Jones. I am the man that exposed Pastor Ted Haggard. I wanted to expose the injustice and the hypocrisy. That's why I did it. I didn't do it for fame and fortune.

    King: We reached out to Mike in advance of this interview. He e-mailed us a couple of questions. One thing Mike wanted to know was whether Ted Haggard is prepared to state absolutely that Grant Haas is the only other young man whom he engaged with inappropriate conduct during his leadership of the New Life Church.

    Haggard: Yes. I have thoroughly discussed all of my sexual history with my wife and my therapist and, to some degree, the family.

    And -- and we think that's an appropriate boundary for that.

    King: So you're not going to comment?

    Haggard: And so -- it wouldn't be right. And so -- but -- but it's certainly not a secret. We have discussed that thoroughly with -- the whole sexual history with my counselors. And I've had very good counselors -- and with Gayle.

    King: What do you consider yourself, Ted?

    Haggard: Yes.

    King: Are you bi?

    Are you gay?

    Are you...

    Haggard: It's a great question. And I went through...

    King: What are you?

    Haggard: I went through a year of seriously asking that after the scandal. And different therapists have said different things to me. My first therapist said you are a heterosexual with homosexual attachments.

    And I wasn't sure what that meant.

    Now that we've processed this through, my current counselor says you're a heterosexual with complications. And -- and so I don't think the boxes work for me. I think I have -- I have some thoughts in my life and some processes in my life that just don't fit neatly into the boxes, which I think is true for a lot of people.

    And I know that I'm in a process. I am changing. And so I know I went through -- I was different in college than I was in my 20s and 30s.

    And then this happened in my 50s. And -- and -- but I can tell you this.

    Today, I'm 100 percent satisfied with my relationship with my wife and I have no compelling things in my life toward others.

    King: Do you think this whole story would have been different if Mike Jones were Michelle Jones?

    Haggard: Oh, yes.

    King: If it were a woman?

    Haggard: I do. I do.

    King: Your wife might have left you.

    Haggard: It -- I don't know.

    King: We'll ask her.

    Haggard: I thought Gayle would leave me over this. Actually, I recommended that she leave me over this. I do know with this homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual discussion, when there is a homosexual man that has something go on with a woman, people don't demand that he come out and admit that he's really a heterosexual. And I've had a very satisfying relationship for 30 years with my wife. This did not happen because of dissatisfaction with Gayle. This happened because of something else going on inside of me.

    King: Do you know all the answers yet?

    Haggard: Not at all. And I think I'm still deeply wounded and scarred and somewhat confused. I'm going to need at least another year to get my bearings.

    King: Do you still get attracted to men?

    Haggard: I have thoughts from time to time, but not compelling thoughts.

    King: Fear it might happen?

    Haggard: No, not anymore.

    King: Like the alcoholic...

    Haggard: I did probably up until a year ago.

    King: ...fears taking a drink?

    Haggard: Yes. Not anymore. I probably did up until a year ago.

    I thought, could this happen again?

    But I -- I don't think that anymore.

    King: Do you think you're -- you're over the hump, you're on the way?

    Haggard: I do. I'm very pleased with where I am. And, of course, life is a process, as you know and as all of our viewers know. And one guy's processing along like I am, but another guy may be processing along with another set of issues. And I'm very happy with -- of course, I'm a Christian. So let me word it this way, I'm very happy with the way the scriptures have come alive to me during this process, the way the Holy Spirit has walked me through this process and the way Jesus has never, ever, ever withdrawn from me.

    King: Have you ever thought of leaving Christianity?

    Haggard: No. Never.

    King: Never?

    Haggard: Never. Well, there were times when I couldn't seek, as I mentioned earlier. But I never -- I never have thought of leaving the faith.

    Interestingly enough, during this time, I read a book written by an atheist. And in his book he called all faith superstition. And that actually helped my faith, because I was able to sort out many of the superstitions I had had prior to the crisis and my real core faith. So this actually got me to my core.

    King: And we're joined now by Gayle Haggard, Ted's wife of 30 years. They have five children.

    Why did you stay?

    Gayle Haggard: Well, actually, for two reasons. The first is that I really do love this man. And I know that he's more than any complications, flaws and sins that he's committed. And the second reason is because of my faith. And it teaches that -- or, actually, the teachings of Jesus are that we forgive and that we love.

    King: No matter what?

    Gayle Haggard: Well, 70 times seven is what Jesus says, you keep forgiving. And I think we're the better for it when we do forgive. I'm not saying it was easy. It was a real challenge for me.

    King: How did you react when this story broke?

    Gayle Haggard: I was shocked. Well the first I heard of it, I didn't believe it and Ted was denying it. But when he finally told me, which was the second day that the story was out, I felt as though the carpet had been pulled out from under me. I just didn't believe it. I felt as though Ted -- this could not be true of my husband. So the first words out of my mouth were, who are you?

    King: That had to be hard to do.

    Ted Haggard: Very painful and I didn't know who I was.

    King: What was the setting? Where were you?

    Ted Haggard: We were still there in Colorado Springs.

    King: At the house?

    Ted Haggard: When that conversation went on, that happened at our attorney's office. And I just told her, I said, I'm confused. I don't know how to answer that. And so she had to make core decisions within herself about me while I was still wavering.

    King: Did her reaction surprise you?

    Ted Haggard: It pleasantly surprised me. I fully expected to lose her. I kept my struggle secret from her for decades because I so wanted to please her. I so wanted to be the perfect husband for her.

    King: There's one thing. But Gayle, when you hear him say, as he said five minutes ago, he still has those tendencies; he still has those feelings; he still -- he doesn't act on them, but he might. I'm not sure he won't.

    Gayle Haggard: I do know he's a human being. And I know that every one of us has struggles in our life. And every one of us are going to mess up and we are all sinners. But what I also know is that we have a great sexual relationship in our marriage. We had a growing intimate relationship in our marriage, throughout our marriage. It certainly had its seasons, I think, of distance. I think all marriages go through that.

    I knew that Ted had some struggles in this area, particularly in his thoughts. I never knew that he acted on them. But I just -- I just believed that everybody is a sinner. And so I'm willing to go through the process with him.

    King: You had to be doubly shocked, Gayle?

    Gayle Haggard: Doubly shocked. However, I do think that our sexuality is complex. But I don't like is when we put labels on each other, because I am here to say that 99 percent of Ted's sexual experiences were with me. So I'm not willing to deny that. But I am willing to explore, why is he having these other feelings?

    King: What about the drugs?

    Gayle Haggard: That was the biggest shock of all.

    King: Bigger than gay?

    Gayle Haggard: Well, as shocking, however when I heard that accusation, I laughed, because I thought, this guy cannot know my husband, because everyone who knows my husband knows -- I mean he didn't even smoke cigarettes or pot in high school. I mean, my husband would not have anything to do with drugs. And so that was the shock.
  16. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

    Feb 2, 2009
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    Duh! Mi nilifikiri mvua kumbe ni mimate na makamasi...! Punguza jazba kaka. Kwani ukiongea kwa ustaarabu hatutokuelewa.


    Dallas, Texas, 2/11/98
    A Baptist pastor awaiting trial on a sexual abuse charge involving an 11-year-old girl is now accused of molesting a 3-year-old girl at her mother's home.

    Police arrested Rev. Ronroyal Owens at his church office after a mother reported finding him nude in bed with her daughter. She told police she and Owens had gone to sleep in the living room but when she awoke shortly later and checked on her daughter, she discovered Owens with her, touching her leg. Her panties had been pulled down. An officer of the child exploitation unit of the Dallas PD said it did not appear that the child had been harmed.

  17. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

    Feb 2, 2009
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    "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him." SO 5:4
    Whoa, nelly. I don't even want to know...

    A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Judge 19:22-29

    "... eat their own dung and drink their own piss." Yuck!
    KI 18:27, IS 36:12 (KJV)
  18. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

    Feb 2, 2009
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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2009
  19. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Go and ask your beloved 'prophet' Mwamedi, kama ni yeye tu aliruhusiwa kubaka watoto au na huyu 'pasta' wako..Ikiwezekana a-edit Koran yake na kuongezea surah ya 115 a.k.a PEDOFILIA..Nadhani angelikuwako bado hai angepewa hii ayat ya kuanzia, usiku wa 'maraha' wakati amejifunika bulanketi na baby 'Aisha. I can only imagine this:

    115:1 Enyi watu wa kitabu (mlioelimika kunizidi mimi Mwamedi mola wa wasilamu), Je hamjui kuwa PEDOFILIA NIMERUHUSIWA MIMI TU PEKE YANGU. allah is the MOST GRACIOUS..

    :D :D :D

    Kwi kwi kwi..
  20. Ibrah

    Ibrah JF-Expert Member

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    Nadhani tunalumbana bure tu kuhusu hii kachfa ya Mchungaji. Kama imefanyika zamani au jana hoja ni kuwa Mchungaji alipotoka na kuidhalilisha Imani ya Kikristo. Kitu muhimu hapa ni kuwa Mtumishi amekiri juu ya dhambi zake na upotovu wake.

    Hata hivyo tukumbuke maneno ya Yesu Kristo juu ya Manabii wa Uongoaliposema: Jihadharini na Manabii wa Uongo wanowajia wakivaa ngozi ya kondoo wakati ndani ni mbwa mwitu wakali, mtawatambua kwa matunda yao... si kila aniitaye BWANA, BWANA ataingia ufalme wa Mungu...Matayo 7: 15-16; 21..(sisemi kuwa huyu Mchungaji ni Nabii wa Uongo- huenda Kristo amemsamehe dhambi zake maana amekiri na lbda ametubu pia).

    Nachotaka kusema hapa, haijalishi kuwa ni Mchungaji, Nabii, Mtume, au Mlei, KITU MUHIMU NI KUWA KRISTO AMETUFUNDIHA NINI? NA CHARACTERISTICS ZA KRISTO MWENYEWE ZINAFANANA NA MCHUNGAJI, NABII AU MTUME HUYO? Muhimu ni ...tutawatambua kwa matunda yao (matendo)