Constitutional madness.... Why CCM and CHADEMA are both dead wrong | JamiiForums | The Home of Great Thinkers

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Constitutional madness.... Why CCM and CHADEMA are both dead wrong

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Rutashubanyuma, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 30, 2011
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    ccm wao hawataki katiba mpya lakini wanatuhadaa ya kuwa hapo ndipo roho yao inapodundia........................

    chadema wanaikosoa ccm (rightly so) kuwa mchakato uliopitishwa kuwa sheria ni marekebisho ya 15 ya katiba iliyopo....................kwa maana ya viraka..............lakini la ajabu ufumbuzi wa chadema ni demokrasia ya vyama vya siasa na wala siyo demokrasia ya watanzania wote wenye vyama na tusiyo na vyama..................................mfano tu kwenye swala la tume chadema wanataka wao nao warudie kosa la jk la kuteua wajumbe wawili.........................kama jk hawezi kuteua wajumbe wa tume basi na chadema nao hawana uwezo wa kuteua hata mjumbe mmoja..........................well, chadema ought to face it that two wrongs can never be righted by anyway.........including colluding with ccm in a conspiratorial arrangements.........

    kero ya chadema ni kuwa ccm mbona wanataka kula pekee yao na wao ndiyo chama kikuu cha upinzani hapa nchini?

    nonsense..........tume ya kukusanya maoni ni haramu kwa sababu haikutoa fursa sawa kwa watanzania wote katika kushiriki katika kuiunda na wala siyo kwa sababu chadema hawakupewa nafasi nzuri wapange safu za ulaji ndani ya tume kama ccm inavyokusudia kuwazawadia akina profesa palamagamba na wengineo kwa kutetea dhuluma ya ccm ndani ya wanyonge wa kitanzania.....................kumbuk mgombea binafsi pamoja na mambo mengineyo.............

    kwa hiyo ccm na chadema wote wapo nje ya mstari kwa kutetea masilahi yao na wala siyo masilahi ya taifa...........................shame on both of them..................
     
  2. M

    Malova JF-Expert Member

    #2
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    napita tu kwasababu ni lazima nisome post zote
     
  3. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    ulazima huu umeutoa wapi mwenzetu?
     
  4. zumbemkuu

    zumbemkuu JF Bronze Member

    #4
    Nov 30, 2011
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    :thinking: am still thinking
     
  5. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #5
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    kama mada hii imekufikisha hapo ni mafanikio kwetu sote....................
     
  6. A

    Ame JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Nov 30, 2011
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    Imenisikitisha mno hata mimi wakati wengine tukipigania nafasi ya mtanzania katika demokrasia wengine wanafikiria nafasi ya kuongeza mifuko yao ukubwa.

    I am realy disapointed na haya yaliyotokea lakini hii haimaanishi kuwa vita yangu dhidi ya ufisadi na utaifa wangu nimei abandon never; lakini hili limenisaidia kujua zaidi ninani ambao tuna operate kwenye common factor na nani ambao natakiwa kuwachukulia kwa tahadhari kubwa.

    Wakati mwingine haya ni vizuri yametokea ili tuwe na uhakika katika safari tuendayo katika ukombozi halisi pia kenge wapo na si wote ni mamba. Again my sincere thanks to dr. W. Slaa kwakujipambanua ana belong wapi! Yes wengine watakuja na gia ya ooh acheni kutu divide nami nasema division ni lazima kwasababu kwenye mwanga giza lazima likimbie; only if they dont want division ni vizuri waka dance kwa tune ya uzalendo na siyo tune ya mchana wazalendo usiku mafisadi.
     
  7. M

    Malova JF-Expert Member

    #7
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    nilikouto huo ulazima nakujua mimi
     
  8. M

    Mike 1234 JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Nov 30, 2011
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    kaka sijakupata vizuri, inamaana chadema wameenda kuomba kuteuliuliwa kwenye kamati au?
     
  9. HISIA KALI

    HISIA KALI JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Nov 30, 2011
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    Mimi sifurahishwi na watu kama wewe ambao wanapenda kupindisha ukweli wa hoja za watu. Nimesoma mapendekezo ya CHADEMA. Hawakusema kama wewe unavyotaka sisi tuamini. Angalia mapendekezo yao ya jinsi ya kupata wajumbe wa tume hapo chini kama nilivyonukuu kutoka kwenye document yao.


    ''Tunapendekeza kwamba wajumbe wa Tume hizi wapatikane kwa utaratibu ufuatao:1) Vyama vya siasa vyenye Wabunge vitakuwa na haki ya kuteua wajumbe wawili kwa kila chama;

    2) Vyama vya siasa vilivyosajiliwa lakini ambavyo havina uwakilishi Bungeni vitakuwa na haki, kwa ujumla wao, ya kuteua wajumbe wawili;

    3)Taasisi za kiraia na mashirika yasiyokuwa ya kiserikali yatakuwa na haki, kwa ujumla wao, za kuteua wajumbe wanne;

    4)Taasisi za kidini zitakuwa na haki, kwa ujumla wao, ya kuteua wajumbe wanne;

    5)Taasisi za kitaaluma zitakuwa na haki, kwa ujumla wao, ya kuteua wajumbe wanne;

    6) Rais atakuwa na haki ya kuteua wajumbe sita; ''


    Haya ndio mapendekezo yao.

    Kimsingi katika tume wanayotaka CHADEMA wao kama chama cha siasa chenye wabunge watakuwa na wajumbe wawili tu. Vyama vya TLP na UPD vyenye mbunge mmoja kila kimoja navyo vitakuwa na wabunge wawili kila Chama.


    Sasa yako wapi hayo unayotaka sisi tuamini?

    Shame on you.
     
  10. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Nov 30, 2011
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    ni kweli matabaka hayakwepeki na ndiyo msingi wa kudai haki ya usawa...........
     
  11. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Nov 30, 2011
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    tatizo ni kuwa na ushabiki wa kisiasa ambao hauna tafakari.......................umejikaanga kwa mafuta yako mwenyewe.........................kwenye maeneo mekundu ndiyo uthibitisho wa hoja yangu sasa unalalama nini?

    Kama JK hana uhalali wa kuteua Tume wao chadema uhalali wa wao kuteua wajumbe wawili wanautoa wapi?

    sijui hata kama umeelewa hoja yangu still shame on ccm and chadema...........................fursa sawa kwa watanzania wote yadai Kamati ya Bunge ya sheria na katiba itangaze nafasi za wajumbe wa tume kutoa fursa kwa watanzania wote kuomba kufikiriwa........................................chadema wao wanataka demokrasia ya vyama vya siasa na ushiriki wa NGOs ambao uhalali wake hakuna anayeujua.............................hazipo kikatiba na wananchi ambao wametajwa bayana kikatiba hawaonekani ila kwa demokrasia ya uwakilishi..................................something is serious wrong there.................
     
  12. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #12
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    wanataka wapewe nafasi mbili na jK sita kwa misingi ipi? kwa nini nafasi tajwa zisitangazwe kwenye magazeti na kila mwenye sifa akaomba?...........wanachotaka chadema ni na wao wawe na watu kwenye chungu........sasa tume hiyo kweli ni huru na shirikishi?
     
  13. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    hapo kwenye nyekundu ndipo aibu yao ilipo............................kama jk hana uhalali wa kuunda tume wao chadema na vyama vingine vinatoa wapi uhalali wa kuteua wajumbe................sasa kama unasoma mada yangu huielewi si ni vyema ukauliza kulikoni kujidhalilisha kama ulivyofanya hapa...................wewe unafikiri hii conspiracy ambayo chadema wanaipigania kuwa wagawane uteuzi wa tume basi tume hiyo itakuwa huru na shirikishi..................katika katiba ya sasa uhalali huu watoka wapi?
     
  14. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Nov 30, 2011
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    Duh! Ivi siasi yetu si ya representation? Wanaotu-represent ni nani? Si vyama vya siasa? Kwa hiyo vyama vya siasa vikiweka wajumbe wao, ni sahihi, na bora zaidi kwa chama kimoja kuchagua wajumbe wote. Umeelewa?
    Kama huna chama cha siasa, anzisha chako kitakacho-represent views zako, maana hiyo ndio njia pekee ya kujihusisha kwenye siasa bongo! Ama sivyo anzisha mjadala mwingine wa wagombea binafsi...
     
  15. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #15
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    tatizo ni kuwa katiba siyo ya wenye vyama pekee bali ni ya wote........................kama tunatengeneza katibaya wenye vyama tu basi tuiite katiba ya wenye vyama..........................ukumbuke kuwa zaidi ya asilimia 90 ya watanzania hawana vyama...................na kama ni demokrasia ya uwakilishi basi Jk is right kutuwakilisha na kuteua maswahiba wake kutuandikia akitakacho kwa niaba yetu..........mkakati wa chadema utafanikiwa na ni ahisi kuujengea hoja kama utakwenda kuwa na mapana ya ushirikishi zaidi ya vyama...............................kama ni uwakilishi ccm itatoa wajumbe wengi na huo utakuwa mwisho wa chadema ndani ya hiyo tume kama walivyokwama bungeni kuupinga huo muswada ........................tunachohitaji ni tume ambayo ni huru kwa kutoa fursa sawa kwa watanzania wote kuomba nafasi tajwa kulingana na sifa zilizoainishwa Kenya wameufuata utaratibu huo na sasa wana katiba ambayo ni shirikishi...........................wanachopigania chadema ni katiba ya viongozi ambayo hata ccm ndicho wanachotaka tofauti yao ni kuwa mirija ya chadema haimo mle ndani kwenye chungu..........................ni masilahi yao ambayo siyo lazima yawe masilahi yetu sote........
     
  16. S

    SINA Senior Member

    #16
    Nov 30, 2011
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    Bado CHADEMA nao wanaonekana walafi tu ukiangalia hizo hoja bado utagundua wanachotaka na wao wawepo kwani wametoa hadi takwimu za uchaguzi wa Igunga sasa sijui uchaguzi wa igunga na katiba vinauhusiano gani. Pili kuhusu hizo taasisi za Kiraia tunauhakika gani kwamba watu waliokuemo humo hawana maslahi katika vyama vya siasa? Je hizi taasisi zinauwakilishi wa kweli kwenye jamii yetu au ni watu tu waliokosa sehemu ya kupatia pesa wakaamua kuanzisha NGOs. Kuhusu uwakilishi wa dini utapatikana vipi? je wasiokuwa na dini watawakilishwa na nani? Hoja yako ina mshiko sema washabiki wengi wa CDM hawapendi chama kikosolewe hapo ndipo ubovu unapoanzia.
     
  17. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    na huo ndiyo ukweli wa wenzetu.........wanafikiri mabosi wao kila kitu wako sahihi.........................ukweli unabaki palepale katiba ya viongozi kamwe haiwezi kusimama na kuhimili vishindo vya wakati...............
     
  18. M

    MILKYWAY GALAXY Senior Member

    #18
    Nov 30, 2011
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    Mkuu Ruta,

    Heshima mbele!

    Nimeguswa na mtazamo na uchambuzi wako juu ya hili suala muhimu sana na tete la "katiba mpya ya watu"
    Kwa maono yangu ya haraka ni kwamba kama tusipokuwa makini na kujua fika tunataka nini kwenye hili suala tutaishia kupata marekebisho ya katiba kwa mlango wa katiba mpya.

    Mchakato wa upatikanaji wa katiba mpya una kishindo, sii huu tunaouona sasa,

    Hapa bado tunacheza makida makida!
     
  19. LordJustice1

    LordJustice1 JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 30, 2011
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    Sijajua unapodai "Katiba ya Viongozi" unamaanisha nini hapa? Hujui kwamba wananchi watashirikishwa katika kutoa maoni na hatimaye kupiga kura ili kupata "Katiba waitakayo?" Mimi naamini kwamba ushiriki wa Vyama na NGOs ni "kuuza mawazo" yao kwa wananchi ili hatimaye wananchi wenyewe waamue! Nifafanulie kwanza hiyo notion (Katiba ya Viongozi) kisha na mimi nichangie! BTW: Jua pia kwamba hata viongozi ni Wananchi!
     
  20. y

    yaya JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    Mkuu, naona wewe unasoma kwa kiswahili na kuelewa kwa kiingereza. Jaribu kusoma na kuelewa kwa lugha moja, utafanikiwa. Kila kitu kiko wazi usilazimishe wote waelewe kwa lugha yako.
     
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