Bush na Kikwete; Hizi ndio sababu za kupayuka kwetu?

[Gembe]

I feel your pain, it baffles me as well. Tatizo letu watanzania tumeamua kwamba hatuhitaji "akili" na "competence" kwenye siasa, matokeo yake jamaa wanaokwenda kwenye siasa ndio hao. Inauma sana, maana kila wakati nikisikiliza wenzetu wanavyowatathimini wanasiasa wao hawaachi kuanza na shule aliyosema, alipata daraja gani katika degree yake, etc. Kwetu sisi sifa pekee tunayoing'ang'ania ni: amekuwa kada miaka mingapi, ana ujanjaujanja kiasi gani.

Matokeo yake tunao watu kwenye siasa hawajawahi hata kuandika kurasa mbili kwa kujitegemea, na wengine kibao wamejipachika madegree na tumekazania kuwaita.... Sasa huo uwezo wa kuongea sensible and constructively wautoe wapi? Hapo ukiawauliza wangapi wana kitabu hata kimoja cha public speaking, nitashangaa watakaonyanyua mikono wakifika watano!! Tubadilike, tujali akili na competence hata kwenye siasa kwa sababu wanapoboronga tunaumbuka sote, sio wao tu!

kitila,

Umesema jambo moja amblo ni la msingi sana la kuhsu Elimu,Nchi hii tumekuwa na Viongozi wengi ambao hawajaenda Shule na matokeo yao ni mabovu ambao huwa wanahalalisha Siasa haitaji Elimu .Na kwa upande mwingine Upinzani kumejaa watu wengi wa namna hii.

Ndiyo maana kuna kipindi Flani nilijaribu kumshauri Mnyika arudi shule amalize na aachane na sisa kwa sasa,sababu kama CHADEMA ikimfukuza atafanya Shughuli gani??kama siyo kuama chama au kuanzisha NGo wka lengo la kujikimi

Kuna watu kibao na hasa ambo wanakimbilia madaraka ya juu ila Elimu yao ni ya Mashaka,Kuna KijanaMmoja ambaye nasikia anataka kugombe uongozi wa UVCCM,ana Degree ya PASS na kichwani hamna kitu.hawa siyo watu wa kuwaamini kutuongoza na atokeo yake ni kuwa na viongozi wa the way foward tu

Unadhani kwanini wazungu wanmuogopa Mugape,The guy is so powerfully and he has Education ,kwanini tuendelee kuendeshwa na wazungu kisa wanatupa Misaada,Je Rasilimali tulizonazo zatitutoshi?

Haiwezekani Bush ampende JK hivi hivi kuna kitu hapa

 

[William J. Malecela]

Watu wanaliangalia swala la Zimbabwe kama Mugabe vs The West wana distort mambo na kuwafanyia watu wa Zimbabwe bonge la injustice.

Mkuu hii injustice inazidi ile ya kuuwa wananchi Pemba na Mwembechai? au tunaona Zimbabwe tu?

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

Masanja et al.

You are injustly and perniciously trivialising a bigger issue that I was addressing. Ninachoongelea mimi hapa ni uwezo hafifu wa muungwano katika swala zima la communication skills-na hapa sio lugha ya kiingereza tu-ni swala zima la mawasiliano: uwezo wa kujieleza, uchaguzi wa maneno, matumizi ya non-verbal cues. Haya ni mambo muhimu kwa kiongozi yeyote wa kisiasa katika ulimwengu wa leo. Ukialikwa kwenda kwenye harusi au sherehe ingine ndiyo unaweza kusema proudly.."I look forward" (sic) to it. Unapoalikwa na kiongozi mwenzake kufanya a state visit hili sio mahala pake, maana you are about to do something that may have a serious consequence, positively or negatively, not only to you as a leader, but also to the nation you are leading.

Mfano mwingine ni kwamba, mnapokuwa kwenye press conference kama ile, two state leaders, hu-behave kama vile mpo kwenye maongezi ya kawaida ya kupiga story kwenye mgahawa ambapo mnafanya ile inaitwa an informal and casual conversation. Kwa hiyo ukenuaji, uchekaji, eye contact, lafudhi, n.k ya kwenye presidential press conference ni tofauti sana na political event ya siku zote kama vile kuhutubia Jangwani ambapo unaweza ukaachia neno lolote madamu adhira ifurahi. Ndio maana nikauliza viongozi wetu huwa wanapata nafasi angalau ya ku-peruze public speaking literature kabla hawajaanza hizo kazi zao za uanasiasa au? Labda niulize pia, maana mwenzetu wewe inaonekana unawajua hawa viongozi wetu vizuri zaidi, hawa viongozi wetu wana watu wa kuandaa kwenda kuongea kabla hawajaanza kuhutubia au ni kuibuka na speech iliyoandikwa wanaanza kuimwaga?

Sasa wewe umekazania kiingereza tu katika hoja yangu. Mimi sio naive kiasi hicho cha kum-judge mtu on the basis ya lugha ambayo siyo ya kwake kwa sababu, by the way and fyi, hata mimi kiingereza sikujui!

 

[Power to the People]

Kwa upande wangu JK awe anaongea kiswahili au kiingereza is not a good public speaker. Hajui kuweka point yake ikaeleweka labda awe anasoma na hata hiyo kusoma sio maridadi kwa kiingereza au hata kwa kiswahili. Na akiwa naongea bila kusoma atacheka cheka hata situation hairuhusu kucheka what kind of public speaking is this? In the end unajikuta unajiuliza what was he saying hakuna mtiririko kabisa arukie jambo hili kabla hajamaliza aende kwenye jambo lingine ilmradi amesema jambo.

 

[Pundit]

Mkuu hii injustice inazidi ile ya kuuwa wananchi Pemba na Mwembechai? au tunaona Zimbabwe tu?

Mkuu,

1.Tumeshaongea kuhusu Pemba humu, siyo kwamba hatujaongelea

2. An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

3.Two wrongs do not make a right.

What you pointed out is totally irrelevant as a rebuttal to my point. Ukweli ni kwamba Mugabe ni muuaji, dispute that if you can.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Masanja et al.

You are injustly and perniciously trivialising a bigger issue that I was addressing. Ninachoongelea mimi hapa ni uwezo hafifu wa muungwano katika swala zima la communication skills-na hapa sio lugha ya kiingereza tu-ni swala zima la mawasiliano: uwezo wa kujieleza, uchaguzi wa maneno, matumizi ya non-verbal cues. Haya ni mambo muhimu kwa kiongozi yeyote wa kisiasa katika ulimwengu wa leo. Ukialikwa kwenda kwenye harusi au sherehe ingine ndiyo unaweza kusema proudly.."I look forward" (sic) to it. Unapoalikwa na kiongozi mwenzake kufanya a state visit hili sio mahala pake, maana you are about to do something that may have a serious consequence, positively or negatively, not only to you as a leader, but also to the nation you are leading.

Mfano mwingine ni kwamba, mnapokuwa kwenye press conference kama ile, two state leaders, hu-behave kama vile mpo kwenye maongezi ya kawaida ya kupiga story kwenye mgahawa ambapo mnafanya ile inaitwa an informal and casual conversation. Kwa hiyo ukenuaji, uchekaji, eye contact, lafudhi, n.k ya kwenye presidential press conference ni tofauti sana na political event ya siku zote kama vile kuhutubia Jangwani ambapo unaweza ukaachia neno lolote madamu adhira ifurahi. Ndio maana nikauliza viongozi wetu huwa wanapata nafasi angalau ya ku-peruze public speaking literature kabla hawajaanza hizo kazi zao za uanasiasa au? Labda niulize pia, maana mwenzetu wewe inaonekana unawajua hawa viongozi wetu vizuri zaidi, hawa viongozi wetu wana watu wa kuandaa kwenda kuongea kabla hawajaanza kuhutubia au ni kuibuka na speech iliyoandikwa wanaanza kuimwaga?

Sasa wewe umekazania kiingereza tu katika hoja yangu. Mimi sio naive kiasi hicho cha kum-judge mtu on the basis ya lugha ambayo siyo ya kwake kwa sababu, by the way and fyi, hata mimi kiingereza sikujui!

Ok, kama hoja ni communication skills na jinsi gani Kikwete yuko au hayuko articulate (regardless ya lugha) hiyo ni fair game. Lakini watu wanapoanza kukishambulia kiingereza chake wakati usikute ni lugha yake ya tatu ay nne huo ni ulimbukeni na si haki hata kidogo. Binafsi sidhani kama Kikwete ni mzungumzaji mzuri kama alivyo Mkapa au wanasiasa wengine. Na sidhani kama uwezo wa kuwasiliana ni kigezo cha muhimu sana katika uraisi. Angalia hata mataifa makubwa, kwa mfano Marekani, wamewahi kuwa na maraisi ambao wana uwezo mkubwa wa mawassiliano (kama hero wangu Ronald Wilson Reagan) na wengine wasiokuwa na uwezo mkubwa kama Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, na Dubya.....

Kwa hiyo kama tunamkosoa Kikwete kwa msingi wa hoja ya uwezo wa kuwasiliana, hilo sina tatizo nalo. Kama tunamkosoa kwa kuongea kiingereza kibovu kwa vile hakijui vizuri, hapo nitamtetea.

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

I have once again read the presidents comments and i would like to declare that i am satisfied with the answers of his excellency, they were diplomatically well packed, smooth delivered, with a sense of gratitude that well portrays African character of respect and friendship.

The snobish behaviour, of me "know much, others know little mentality". instead of judging the contents you decide to judge the semantics and the smile of the speaker.

The president has said he is "looking forward", what is wrong with that?.
by the way i know most of us have read the conversation between JK and bush online, who has watched the video conversation ?.

people get life!, sweet words without concrete results are nothing!. if JK will succeed to pursuade president Bush to bring more "vyandarua", "HIV retrovirals", or attract more investment to TZ, why on earth should you care that he put an "a", instead of "the" before a proper word and vice-versa?

 

[Fidel80]

Bush amemshika pabaya JK tusubili tu aachie ngazi Bush kama hatujaona wamarekani wanakuja kuuza hadi mitumba huku wanatudanganya wanavutia wawekezaji kumbe wanapipet kila kitu na kuachia mashimo tu.

 

[Kungurumweupe]

Sasa, KB, misimamo ya ajabuajabu ni ipi katika hiyo statement, hasa kuhusu Zimbabwe? Ulitaka waseme Mugabe ni Rais halali wa Zimbabwe wakati siyo?

Cha kushangaa hapo ni jinsi Bush anavyomchangamkia JK, kuna kitu hapa!!?

Ni ukweli uliowazi kwamba Mugabe ni Rais halali wa zimbabwe, na ataendelea kuwa raisi kwa kipindi kizima.

 

[Kungurumweupe]

I have once again read the presidents comments and i would like to declare that i am satisfied with the answers of his excellency, they were diplomatically well packed, smooth delivered, with a sense of gratitude that well portrays African character of respect and friendship.

The snobish behaviour, of me "know much, others know little mentality". instead of judging the contents you decide to judge the semantics and the smile of the speaker.

The president has said he is "looking forward", what is wrong with that?.
by the way i know most of us have read the conversation between JK and bush online, who has watched the video conversation ?.

people get life!, sweet words without concrete results are nothing!. if JK will succeed to pursuade president Bush to bring more "vyandarua", "HIV retrovirals", or attract more investment to TZ, why on earth should you care that he put an "a", instead of "the" before a proper word and vice-versa?

Hueleweki mkuu!

 

[Hauxtable]

Tofautisha mtu kuwa na accent na kutojua lugha, Minaija karibu yote ina accent thick lakini ukiikuta ianijua lugha ndiyo hiyo mi Chinua Achebe.Obasanjo si mtupu kama muungwana, labda accent.Halafu kuna ujanja tu, wewe msome muungwana hapo juu halafu uniambie kasema nini, hakuna alichosema amebwabwaja nil!

Mkuu,Wamarekani wenyewe hukiri kuwa hawajawahi pata kiumbe ZUZU kuliongoza taifa lao kama Bw.Bush.Sasa sijui unamuweka Bw.Bush katika kundi gani: Utupu?? au Kutojua Lugha ya Kiingereza??.
We had Mr.Mkapa, a true presidential material/a states man, he could speak the language but what good has he done to TANZANIA??

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kwani nani kasema huwezi ku bargain? Tatizo ni kuwa deal la milioni 100 wewe utapewa milioni tatu na visifa vya hapa na pale, na picha kwenye New York Times na mialiko White House kazi kwisha.

Trust me katika hao wote uliowataja -I don't know much about Yar'Adua- sifikiri kama kuna mtu anayehitaji handlers kama Kikwete. Kagame na Museveni angalau wana msimamo na guts za kusema wanachoamini, hata kama wako wrong, which half the time they are not.Obasanjo eminent person huyo (pamoja na mzee John Samwel ) huwezi kumuweka level moja na Kikwete, alikuwa anadrop jewels wakati Kikwete mtoto wa shule mlimani.

Tofautisha mtu kuwa na accent na kutojua lugha, Minaija karibu yote ina accent thick lakini ukiikuta ianijua lugha ndiyo hiyo mi Chinua Achebe.Obasanjo si mtupu kama muungwana, labda accent.Halafu kuna ujanja tu, wewe msome muungwana hapo juu halafu uniambie kasema nini, hakuna alichosema amebwabwaja nil!

Mazee, Obasanjo sio mtupu na ni kweli ana lafudhi nzito. Lakini pia hata grammatically, huwa anajikwaa...trust me...nimemsikiliza sana huyu jamaa. Pia kutokujua lugha vizuri haina maana wewe ni mtupu (cognitive-wise).

 

[Pundit]

Mkuu,Wamarekani wenyewe hukiri kuwa hawajawahi pata kiumbe ZUZU kuliongoza taifa lao kama Bw.Bush.Sasa sijui unamuweka Bw.Bush katika kundi gani: Utupu?? au Kutojua Lugha ya Kiingereza??.
We had Mr.Mkapa, a true presidential material/a states man, he could speak the language but what good has he done to TANZANIA??

Hauxtable,

What an ironic name for your opinion. A characteriser of your moniker in the person of Bill Cosby is known for incessantly chastising the black community in the US, his critics points out that what he is pointing out in the black community is also present in other communities.He takes the position that despite that fact, mediocrity in other communities does not excuse mediocrity in his community, that two wrongs do not make a right, that charity begins at home and he cannot begin to address the problems of illiteracy in America if he cannot address the problems of illiteracy in his hometown of Philadelphia.

Bush does not impress me, he is not an articulate orator, competent executer or shrewd facilitator. He is not a Rhodes scholar like Clinton with demonstrated communication prowess, I doubt without "legacy admissions" due to his family Harvad connection he would have been admitted there.

You bring a very interesting point comparing Bush and Kikwete, it is a bit like comparing the proverbial apples and oranges.But if you were to come up with a crude way to do some cross multiplication, milk the juice and do some caloric and Protein Vitamin and Mineral comparison I think they are not far apart.The emerging phenomenon only validate that sage of the old Socrates, those who can, do not, those who do, cannot.

We had Mr.Mkapa, a true presidential material/a states man, he could speak the language but what good has he done to TANZANIA??

Do not confuse things here, clearly Mkapa was an arrogant intellectual and that is just as bad as being a nincompoop, if not even more dangerous.

The fact that we had an arrogant intellectual who swindled our country does not mean we have to opt for an incompetent simpleton. Mkapa did not prove that all intellectuals are selfish and bent on corruption. Somebody pointed out earlier a very important point, that we should be careful in discerning the type of leadership we want, lest we choose a very bright president with no morals and wisdom.That is what we had in Mkapa.We can still get a very bright president with high morals and wisdom, Nyerere had a relatively acceptable level of intelligence (he could hold his own with the Reagans, Thatchers and Tradeaus of the world) morals (at least he was an honest Abe when it came to stealing peoples money) and wisodom (at least he knew when the writing was on the wall)

So do not come in defence of incompetent and deficient literacy in a president just because the last intellectual president swindled us. It will be like opting to stay off medicine because you had an allergic reaction from one pill.

 

[Pundit]

I have once again read the presidents comments and i would like to declare that i am satisfied with the answers of his excellency, they were diplomatically well packed, smooth delivered, with a sense of gratitude that well portrays African character of respect and friendship.

The snobish behaviour, of me "know much, others know little mentality". instead of judging the contents you decide to judge the semantics and the smile of the speaker.

The president has said he is "looking forward", what is wrong with that?.
by the way i know most of us have read the conversation between JK and bush online, who has watched the video conversation ?.

people get life!, sweet words without concrete results are nothing!. if JK will succeed to pursuade president Bush to bring more "vyandarua", "HIV retrovirals", or attract more investment to TZ, why on earth should you care that he put an "a", instead of "the" before a proper word and vice-versa?

Somebody said our leaders are a reflection of ourselves, this is the sad truth.Although a few dissenting souls see things differently many are not interested in thinking, too laborious, just give the president a pass whether he says it right or not.After all I cannot say it right people get life!, is not grammatically correct, but you are not the president so I can cut you some slack. But I wont do it for the president.

If you do not understand this language to understand the difference between people get life!, people, get a life. and people, get lives i am not at all surprised that you see nothing wrong with JK's remark.

Far from being snobbish, I am simply disgusted by mediocrity and simplistic attitudes.

With loud exclamation marks, you proclaimed sweet words without concrete results are nothing!. Your president failed even to produce that, he produced vague and ambiguosly explosive undiplomatic diction.The only thing we can be thankful for is the West usually lower their standards of critical analysis when they are dealing with his kind.They do understand his mediocrity.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hey Pundit, it's kinda funny you say that Nyerere could hold his own (intellectually) with people like Reagan, Thatcher, etc......is it the same Reagan whom a bunch of liberals say/ said he wasn't all that intelligent (but yet they couldn't beat him...and who delivered some of the most memorable quotable lines in American political history)?

 

[Lady Capricorn]

Pundit,
I am curious: what do you mean by your statement that Nyerere had a 'relatively acceptable' level of intelligence?
I think that Mwinyi exhibited a conciliatory subtlety and diplomacy that Kikwete also exhibits this is a complex skill and one of the qualities of a good statesman. Not that I mean to defend our Presidents, current or past, but throwing out the baby with the bathwater is not a reasonable way to go about analyzing their performance and legacies.

Do you really think that these men (and yes, they are flawed) who have administered such a diverse country through nation-building economic crises, ethnic and religious differences and ideological change are truly incompetent because they cannot conjugate a few English verbs/exibited some egoic behavior?

 

[jmushi1]

Nyerere naye was good intellectually BUT he failed US THE PEOPLE PRACTICALLY!
The implementation of his POLICIES was SOMEWHAT Dictatorial Yet claim to have JUSTICE WHICH always slips AWAY as the CURRENT MATTER CAN PROVIDE US WITH THE CRITICISMS IN REGARD TO THE CRUCIAL MATTERS WHEN IT COMES TO THE HUMAN RIGHTS!
It is the same POLICIES THAT HAS SOLD OUT OUR NATION!
Yet These are the same POLICIES THAT ARE USED TO PLANT HATRED BASE ON TRIBES...ITS PURE RACISM ON ITS WORKS..ENGINEERED BY NON AFRICANS WHO HAPPEN TO RUN MWALIMU'S PARTY.

 

[Pundit]

Hey Pundit, it's kinda funny you say that Nyerere could hold his own (intellectually) with people like Reagan, Thatcher, etc......is it the same Reagan whom a bunch liberals say/ said he wasn't all that intelligent (but yet they couldn't beat him...and who delivered some of the most memorable quotable lines in American political history)?

Reagan was not book intelligent, but Reagan had a lot of psychological intelligence.If you read about his meteoric rise from a sports newscaster to Hollywodd to the union movement in Hollywood and to the Governor's Mansion and later White House you will see he was not an intellectual, but he knew how to lead, he had empathy, he knew how to communicate, he knew how to make others work for him.

Kikwete on the other hand, I doubt if he ever has had a real job in his life, cannot lead, probably does not know how to spell empathy let alone its meaning, has the communication skills of a mollusc and can hardly successfully delegate.

 

[jmushi1]

Contingency Theories: Contingency theories of leadership focus on particular variables related to the environment that might determine which particular style of leadership is best suited for the situation. According to this theory, no leadership style is best in all situations. Success depends upon a number of variables, including the leadership style, qualities of the followers, and aspects of the situation

Mwalimu cartainlly falls under the leadership theory stated ABOVE.
Mwalimu's leadership style was enough the day we gained our INDEPENDENCE!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Reagan was not book intelligent, but Reagan had a lot of psychological intelligence.If you read about his meteoric rise from a sports newscaster to Hollywodd to the union movement in Hollywood and to the Governor's Mansion and later White House you will see he was not an intellectual, but he knew how to lead, he had empathy, he knew how to communicate, he knew how to make others work for him.

Kikwete on the other hand, I doubt if he ever has had a real job in his life, cannot lead, probably does not know how to spell empathy let alone its meaning, has the communication skills of a mollusc and can hardly successfully delegate.

Right on!! Reagan might not have been book smart but he was an intellectual in his own way. You say he had "psychological intelligence"...I say he had life intelligence....ala Winston Churchill, John Major, Lula, et al. He annihilated Carter (the intellectual) in the debates with "are you better off than you were four years ago"....then absolutely killed Mondale with "i will not, for political purposes, exploit my opponents youth and inexperince"......hahahaha...classic material......