BBI process declared unconstitutional by high court

[NairobiWalker]

BBI will be back.

Kenyans opposing BBI are ignorant and fools.

Independence = Money

It's a bogus document. Kenya does not need 600 MPs.

 

[Mashashola]

A normal mwananchi should use popular initiative. The president should use parliament. That is what the courts said. Tatizo ni kwamba hujasikiliza hio judgement vizuri, umekuja tu kutoa maoni bila kusikiliza hio judgement. Sasa president ataanzisha aje popular initiative na yeye sio private citizen? Mimi I am currently listening to the judgement, I suggest you do the same

Sasa wewe unasema nini?

According to the constitution a popular initiative can be initiated by
1. The people (Kenyans)
2. Parliament.

BBI imekosea wapi apo au raila na Uhuru ni Watanzania?

 

[Smart911]

Ahsante kwa taarifa...

 

[Mashashola]

90% of the issues proposed in the BBI don't need the constitution to be changed, they càn be changed through normal legislature. E.g this one about revenue sharing between national and county government was just added there to seduce governors and MCAs.

You don't need a referendum to change the law on revenue sharing and even if you did need a referendum, The law talks about MINIMUM revenue that should be shared with counties, it never mentions maximum, so if Uhuru really wanted more money to counties all he needs to do is talk with treasury and all stakeholders to increase the revenue to counties from 15% to even 50% if he felt like.

Talk to treasury? Haha

'Talk' about billions of money kwani pesa ni ya mama ya Uhuru? Tax money follows the law only sio uamuzi binafsi ya mtu.

The government only gives the minimum money as set by law like everyone else would when it comes to money.

We cannot wait for a 'good Samaritan' president to be increasing revenue to counties and decreasing it when he feels like it.

What about consistent growth to counties due to a fixed budget? You can't give a county 20b now and give it 11 b next year vitu zitasabaratika.

So the 35% should be set as minimum so that counties can budget their things from there.

 

[Mutaitina]

Which one element is being strengthened?

And stop lying about counties. They have been receiving 15% of budget which is the minimum set by law.

Corruption is everywhere and you must be blind or young to not see the effects of devolution in every part of the country.

What does age have to do with anything. I might be far older than you. Stick to the main topic.
GoK has been giving more than 15%.a the main problem is that the funds for the last audited Gov financials.
You can also get more info here

County Allocation of Revenue Bill, 2021​

 

[Mutaitina]

90% of the issues proposed in the BBI don't need the constitution to be changed, they càn be changed through normal legislature. E.g this one about revenue sharing between national and county government was just added there to seduce governors and MCAs.

You don't need a referendum to change the law on revenue sharing and even if you did need a referendum, The law talks about MINIMUM revenue that should be shared with counties, it never mentions maximum, so if Uhuru really wanted more money to counties all he needs to do is talk with treasury and all stakeholders to increase the revenue to counties from 15% to even 50% if he felt like.

Extacly. There is already a bill in Parliament

County Allocation of Revenue Bill, 2021​

 

[Sexless]

It is a big blow on the face of Uhuru Kenyatta and this decision aborts every secret move for Laila to become the next president of Kenya.

Bravo to mtoto wa mjini, the field marshal of kenyan politics, ndugu Ruto. This court's decision is a stepping stone towards his beautiful destiny.

 

[Mutaitina]

It is a big blow on the face of Uhuru Kenyatta and this decision aborts every secret move for Laila to become the next president of Kenya.

Bravo to mtoto wa mjini, the field marshal of kenyan politics, ndugu Ruto. This court's decision is a stepping stone towards his beautiful destiny.

Uhuru conned Raila. He new this would come

 

[Mashashola]

What does age have to do with anything. I might be far older than you. Stick to the main topic.
GoK has been giving more than 15%.a the main problem is that the funds for the last audited Gov financials.
You can also get more info here

County Allocation of Revenue Bill, 2021​

Am not very good at math but How is sh370b more than 15% of a sh2.7trillion 2020/21 budget?

 

[Mashashola]

It is a big blow on the face of Uhuru Kenyatta and this decision aborts every secret move for Laila to become the next president of Kenya.

Bravo to mtoto wa mjini, the field marshal of kenyan politics, ndugu Ruto. This court's decision is a stepping stone towards his beautiful destiny.

If you are stopping BBI for ruto ole wako.

Support laws that will favor you regardless of who is in power.

 

[Teargas]

Uhuru conned Raila. He new this would come

So you are opposing BBI because of the people that are driving it but not the content inside it? I think you are the same people who elects some leaders and two months later start complaining about the same person you elected.

 

[Mutaitina]

Am not very good at math but How is sh370b more than 15% of a sh2.7trillion 2020/21 budget?

Is that the last audited financial statement?
Budgetary allocation to Counties is based on the last audited financial statement

 

[Mutaitina]

So you are opposing BBI because of the people that are driving it but not the content inside it? I think you are the same people who elects some leaders and two months later start complaining about the same person you elected.

I didn't say that.

 

[Teargas]

I didn't say that.

So why are you opposing it?

 

[Don YF]

Which political sentiments?
If BBI passes it becomes law which must be followed.

Those opposing BBI are the ones giving us political sentiments.
Kwani pesa mashinani itafika aje mashinani. Through promises?

Every county has its own economic activity.
The political sentiment 'Bottom up economy' can never be reality without more money to the grassroots which can only trickle down through devolution.

Devolution should be strengthened and BBI is offering exactly that.

How was it initiated and executed first of all before it passes? It will set a bad precedent if it goes kienyeji like that without considering the stipulated laws. It will open a door for the executive to abuse his powers against the law.

BBI might be "good" depending on where u stand., now give your arguments along the lines of the findings, below is a summary.,
👇👇
Five Bench Judge find the BBI Bill unconstitutional.
Furthermore, declares that as soon as the Auditor General completes audit of all the costs, the President and Raila Odinga will have to bear the costs of the manifestly illegal BBI Process....

High Court Findings;
√ BBI Steering Committee is unlawful.
√ BBI is an hybrid initiative unknown to the constitution, therefore it is our finding that the popular initiative as means to amend the constitution under article 257 of the constitution is a power reserved for Wanjiku. Neither the president nor any state organ can utilize article 257 of the constitution to amend the constitution.
√ A constitutional amendment can either be initiated by a Parliamentary or Popular initiative.' It is clear that BBI Bill is an initiative of the President. The President is not an MP, cannot directly purport to initiate a constitutional amendment (Justice Jairus Ngaah)
√ Kenyans committed to protect to the structure of their 2010 Constitution from erosion public participation over elite consensus. There are limits to Constitutional amendment powers High Court finds: the basic structure doctrine is applicable in Kenya Popular Initiative to amend the Constitution can only be started by the people not by the government (Justice Odunga)
#BBIpetitions
#MilimaniLawCourts

 

[Mutaitina]

So why are you opposing it? ,President can’t initiate popular initiative constitutional amendments. BBI taskforce was a presidential taskforce and not the people’s initiative.

For The basic reasons that

 

[Mashashola]

Is that the last audited financial statement?
Budgetary allocation to Counties is based on the last audited financial statement

Stop beating around the bush ruto sycophant.

The constitutions says that 15% of revenue goes to counties 84.5% to national government and 0.5% used as equalization fund.

Mambo ya kuuliza last audited accounts umeanza kukaa Mataga wa Tanzania hapa.

 

[Mashashola]

How was it initiated and executed first of all before it passes? It will set a bad precedent if it goes kienyeji like that without considering the stipulated laws. It will open a door for the executive to abuse his powers against the law.

BBI might be "good" depending on where u stand., now give your arguments along the lines of the findings, below is a summary.,

Five Bench Judge find the BBI Bill unconstitutional.
Furthermore, declares that as soon as the Auditor General completes audit of all the costs, the President and Raila Odinga will have to bear the costs of the manifestly illegal BBI Process....

High Court Findings;
√ BBI Steering Committee is unlawful.
√ BBI is an hybrid initiative unknown to the constitution, therefore it is our finding that the popular initiative as means to amend the constitution under article 257 of the constitution is a power reserved for Wanjiku. Neither the president nor any state organ can utilize article 257 of the constitution to amend the constitution.
√ A constitutional amendment can either be initiated by a Parliamentary or Popular initiative.' It is clear that BBI Bill is an initiative of the President. The President is not an MP, cannot directly purport to initiate a constitutional amendment (Justice Jairus Ngaah)
√ Kenyans committed to protect to the structure of their 2010 Constitution from erosion public participation over elite consensus. There are limits to Constitutional amendment powers High Court finds: the basic structure doctrine is applicable in Kenya Popular Initiative to amend the Constitution can only be started by the people not by the government (Justice Odunga)
#BBIpetitions
#MilimaniLawCourts

Am not going back to this you can read my previous comments.

All in all Raila, Uhuru, Junet, Waweru etc etc are all Kenyans who can initiate any popular initiative so the judgment lacks merit.

Let's meet at the court.

 

[Teargas]

For The basic reasons that
View attachment 1784290View attachment 1784290

Before High Court made judgement did you have these reasons?

 

[Don YF]

The issue here is not the BBI itself per'se, but the process taken, it is a matter of legality or constitutionalism than about the document and it's contents. It's not about the battle between pro or anti BBI, it is the fight for the rule of law. Unfortunately the politicians and clueless citizens will take it up and turn it into a battle of Yes and No., which the high court didn't highlight anywhere., naona comments zingine ni za support for BBI or anti BBI, however the court didn't rule whether BBI is good or bad.,