Amir Jamal aliyekuwa Waziri wa Fedha

[Mugishagwe]

Ndugu wana bodi naona joto linapanda lakini somo liko .Naombeni msaada wa kujua huyu Mtanzania mwenzetu aliye heshimika sana baada ya kufa hapo Tanzania alizikwa wapi ??

 

[Mugishagwe]

Naomba msaada jamani ina maana hakuna mwenye taarifa za huyu Mtanzania mwenzetu ??

 

[Mkira]

Ndugu Mugwishage,
Amir Jamal alisekuwa waziri wa fedha tanzania alizikwa Canada. Amerika ya kaskazini na siyo AFRICA.

Unajua wahindi wa tanzania bado wanaona kuwa ni bora walete watu toka Pakistani kuja kufanya kazi za ulinzi kwenye godowns zao kuliko kuajiri mtanzania mweusi.

Wahindi hawa hawa wanaajiri graduate watanzania kwa shilling 60000/= kwa mwezi halafu anamuajri mhindi form six anamlipa laki tatu! Mfano Manji ninasikia watu wananyanyaswa huko quality group! etc pia wahindi huajiri watu bila qualification. Hakika vijiwanda vyao vikipitiwa kuna ajira kibao zitapatikana huko(mfani store keeps, wahasibu makarani nk) ! Lakini zamani walikuwa wanajigamba kuwa wana simu ya kila waziri.

Sasa kama wao hawako tayari kututuambua kwenye urais ndiyo watatuatambua! tusjie tukapa aibu siku nyingine tututakuwa na rais Mhindi halafu akifa mwili wake ukaenda kuzikwa canada!

 

[Choveki]

Ndugu Mugwishage,
Unajua wahindi wa tanzania bado wanaona kuwa ni bora walete watu toka Pakistani kuja kufanya kazi za ulinzi kwenye godowns zao kuliko kuajiri mtanzania mweusi.

Wahindi hawa hawa wanaajiri graduate watanzania kwa shilling 60000/= kwa mwezi halafu anamuajri mhindi form six anamlipa laki tatu! !

Kulijibu hili swali jiulize je viwanda vingapi vya electronics au "call centres" ngapi zimeletwa africa badala ya india, pakista au china?, Je mnajua kuwa asilimia 80 ya mipira ya world cup inatengenezewa pakistani? Kwanini Computer Programmers wengi wanatoka India na pakistani??

Swali lingine ni kuwa si mmesikia kimbembe cha hao vijana wa kitanzania Marekani na wizi wa mamilioni?? Sasa basi Uingereza ni ni hivyo hivyo, Sauzi (Sauth Africa) ni vivyo hivyo nk.

Tukipata majibu ya maswali hayo tutajijibu wenyewe na kuelewa kwanini mambo hayo yanafanyika.

 

[Mkandara]

Wanabodi,

Swala la Jamal kuzikwa Canada ama Tanzania linahusu nini hasa?

Jamal alikuwa mhindi mwenye asili ya India na Tanzania - sielewi uhusiano wa kufanya swala hili liwe kubwa kwa sababu kazikwa Canada. jamal na Canada wapi na wapi?...Kuna raia wangapi weusi wamezikwa nje Ulaya?...na zaidi ya hapo nyumbani kuna wasukuma wamezikwa Dar....ikiwa swala ni mila zetu. Kimila hili swala linaeleweka kuwa vibaya lakini tusije changanya mila zetu, mapenzi yetu kwa watu wengine ambao wanafuata dini ama mapenzi yao..Itafikia wakati tutaanza kusema waliochomwa moto badala ya kuzikwa kuwa kielelezo cha aliyekuwa kiongozi bora. Waislaam pia hawalazi maiti isipokuwa pale tu tunapochanganya dini na mila ndio utaona wengine wanarudisha maiti TZ. Hawa hawa wanaorudisha maiti Dar ama kuzika nje bado pia ni kasheshe hakuna suluhu kwani sisi sote tunatofautiana..

Nadhani Choveki alichojaribu kusema hapa ni jinsi tulivyoingia mkenge ktk ulimwengu huu wa utandawazi na teknolojia.

Ukiangalia wenzetu wahindi na wachina wapo nchi za nje kuiba mali ama ufundi na kuupeleka kwao ili uweze kuzalisha zaidi kwa manufaa ya nchi zao hali sisi Watanzania tunaiba kwa sababu ya matumbo yetu binafsi.

Chukulia mfano mdogo huo wa Houston, kama ingekuwa China wizi ule wa chips ingekuwa kuiba teknologia ya HP na kuipeleka China kutoa chapa (feki) kibao ambazo badala ya kuwa na thamani ya millioni inakuwa mabillioni ya exports pia taifa limepata elimu ya kutengeneza chip hiyo. Ile original ingerudishwa Marekani na hakuna mtu angeshtukia deal hilo. India vilevile wasomi wake wamerudi nyumbani na elimu pamoja na wizi mkubwa wa sample ktk ku- design kitu.

Tanzania hata hatua ya kwanza hatujafika, yaani hakuna kabisa uhusiano kati ya raia na uongozi, kumrithisha msomi ama kumpa ajira msomi sio swala la muhindi ikiwa sheria za nchi ni lege. Ndio maana JKN aliajiri watu mara tu unapomaliza shule ile secondary, College ama University.

Trust me, wahindi wanajua kwamba Juma ataiba mali za duka, kujipoza kwa mkewe na mtoto atapewa bali achezee, hali mhindi mwenzake atakuwa na uchungu fulani. Wabongo hatuna uchungu kabisa, tunaiba sii kwa manufaa ya kwenda mbele kitaifa ila nafsi zetu na mara nyingi tunakwama na kufa maskini.

 

[Field Marshall ES]

Eti mzee kuna ajabu ya vijana wa kibongo kuiba?

Ala hawa mabalozi kina Mahalu nao vipi? mbona wameiba?
Na huko majuu hao kina Ken Lay ambao wamewaibia watu mpaka viinua mgongo vyao huko ma-Enron, sasa hao mzee unasemaje na wao ni vijana wa kibongo?

Swali ni kwamba someone needs to explain, mwananchi aliyefikia hatua hata ya kuwa waziri anapokwenda kuzikiwa Canada nje ya nchi yetu je mawaziri wa ngapi wa nchi zingine wamezikiwa bongo?

Je huyu mtu alipokuwa hai, mnawezaje kutuhakikishia kuwa hakuwa kibaraka? vijana hii issue ni nzito mno kuliko mnavyoiangalia I mean how yaani tunawezaje as taifa kuruhusu mambo kama haya na ukizingatia kuwa the man mwishoni alikuwa balozi wetu kwenye sehemu nyeti kama ya ubalozi wa Geneva, jawabu ni kwamba zilikuwa enzi za Mwalimu ndio maana tulikuwa tunaogopa, ndio maana sasa kina Salim ndio hivyo haturudii tena makosa, hakuna excuse ya kiongozi wa nchi yetu ngazi ya uwaziri kuzikiwa nje ya nchi yetu hiyo ni dhana potofu kwa wale mnaoitetea tusijeruhsu kutokea tena!

 

[FairPlayer]

Mzee Es,

Haya sasa ni kama tunaelekea Rwanda au Burundi. Mimi nitampigia kiongozi safi mwenye kutaka kutuletea maendeleo bila kujali Rangi au nywele zake!.

Kwangu mimi hata awe mzungu ili mradi ana nia safi na mchapaka kazi nampa uongozi.........

Samahani kwa kutofautiana na nyinyi.

FD

 

[Mkira]

watanzania wengi wengi tuna ile hali ya kusema 2 + 2 =22 kama livyokuwa akitoa hilo jibu mheshiwa fulani!

Hapa unasemwa ukweli. lakini watu wanaukataa hukua wakijua 2+2=4!

kwa hiyo ni afadhali wanaojua 2+2=4 wakae kimya tu ukweli wenyewe ni kwamba anayetaka urais kama awe mhindi au mwarabu yeye aombe KURA NDIZO ZITAKAZOAMUA.

Na hapa 2+2 = 4 na siyo 22.

Unaweza pia kusoma article ya Mtikila ya leo kuhusu manji nk.

Bye sitachangia tena hii topic na ile inayohusiana na hii.

 

[Jasusi]

FairPlayer,

Ninakubaliana na wewe.

Kuhusu Jamal kuna sababu ambazo zilifanya asizikwe Tanzania. Unajua alikuwa ameachana na mkewe siku nyingi na hata alipokuwa Geneva alikuwa anaishi peke yake. Alipostaafu, binti yake ambaye anaishi Canada akamwita aende kule kwa sababu hali yake ya afya haikuwa nzuri. Hata alivyofariki, binti yake aliwasiliana na serikali kwani Jamal alitaka azikwe/achomwe Tanzania.

Lakini serikali ya Ruksa ilikaa kimya basi maandalizi ya mazishi yakafanyiwa Canada. Fikiraduni, labda niongeze kitu kimoja hapa: Jamal, kama Mwalimu, walikuwa wazalendo wa aina ya pekee. Jamal hakujilimbikizia mali. Aliipenda sana Tanzania. Nilipata bahati ya kumwona New York, a few months before he died. Alikuwa amedhoofika, lakini aliposikia Mwalimu was in town alifunga safari.

I think it was the last time they met.

 

[Mkandara]

Mzee Es,

Hakuna ajabu kabisa na upuuzi kulitazama swala hili kwa sababu hawa vijana sio akina Mahalu ambao huiba wanaiba ndani ya nyumba na kupeleka nje.

Mzee Es umekuwa kama mgeni wa serikali yetu mshikaji?... vijana wangapi unaowafahamu wewe wamezikwa nje kwa sababu balozi zimeshindwa hata kufika ku-identify maiti. Ni nguvu ya watu binafsi ambayo inatumika zaidi ya serikali na usidanganywe kabisa Bongo mshikaji kuna watu ambao serikali inaweza kwenda mbio wakifa nje lakini asilimia 90 huzikwa nje ama Bongo kwa juhudi za familia na marafiki. Kuwa waziri Bongo sii hoja hasa wakati wa Nyerere, kesho unaweza kuwa muuza maandazi kutokana na jinsi tulivyoshindwa kuendeleza legacy ya Nyerere na kuangalia matumbo yetu.

Kesi ya Jamal, sijui kama unaweza kuijibu kwa kutumia mfano huohuo kwa cabinet nzima ya Nyerere. Sidhani kama tunafahamu viongozi wale waliokwisha kufa walizikwa wapi?.. serikali yetu haikuandaa sehemu maalum kuhakikisha viongozi hao wanazikwa pale. Kisha kuitupia maiti lawama ni ujinga mtupu kwani Jamal hana sauti ya kusema :- Mkapa mbona umeniacha nizikwe Canada!

Mzee Es, kila unalofanya hapa ni sawa kabisa na Nyerere mwenyewe wakati wa ukoloni. Nakupongeza sana kila unapodondosha madogo kueleza machafu ya Utawala huu chini ya MWAFRIKA. Nilikuwa nasoma kitabu kimoja cha maisha ya Nyerere ktk harakati zake za kupigania Uhuru huko Makelele nikakutana na kipande hiki.

Yet it was at Makerere where Nyerere learned to lead. His organisation, the Tanganyika African Welfare Association, was not a political one, but it aimed to assist the small number of Tanganyikan students at Makerere.

The welfare association soon joined with the Tanganyika African Association, an organisation started by Tanganyika civil servants, which was also restricted to welfare problems.

Nyerere wanted to fight against discrimination, for African rights, for equal work and equal salaries. He felt bitter about the favours which the Europeans enjoyed. Nyerere later described these demands as the "politics of sheer complaint".

They did not get to the root of the problem. The aim was to make their rulers listen to African grievances so that they could make changes.

In those days there was no talk of removing the British from power. Nyerere says, "When I was born, there was not a single person who questioned why we were being ruled, and if my father had heard that we wanted changes, he would have asked me, 'What do you think you can do, you small silly boy?'"

hakika hapa tunaanzisha mapinduzi mapya na hatuna malengo nje ya hayo aliyokuwa nayo Nyerere na akina Fundikira miaka hiyo. Tofauti kubwa ni hapa ni rangi za watawala na haitupi nafuu kutazama rangi za watu kutoa hukumu. navyofikiri mimi, utawala huu ni mbaya zaidi kuliko hata mkoloni kwani wazazi wetu pamoja na matatizo yote waliyokuwa nayo kila mzazi wetu alikuwa na NYUMBA YAKE, ardhi yake..

Tusiwahukumu watu kwa rangi zao.

 

[Jasusi]

Mkandara,
The only response I have for you is a big AMEN!!

 

[Jasusi]

8:13 AM Mar 22, 1995

AMIR JAMAL PASSES AWAY

Geneva 23 Mar (TWN)

Amir Habib Jamal, 74, who held many high posts in Tanzania, including as Finance Minister, and later served as Tanzanian Ambassador to the UN in Geneva, died in Vancouver, Canada Monday after year of debilitating illness which he fought with fortitude.

As a Tanzanian ambassador from 1988-1993, Jamal through a crucial period of the Uruguay Round negotiations tried hard to safeguard the interests of the developing countries, and especially of the least developed. His great ability and dedication were recognized not only by fellow Ambassadors from South and North, but by a wider community of officials and non-governmental organizations. He was a member of the Brandt Commission and then served as Personal Representative of Chairman Julius Nyerere on the South Commission and then on the South Centre, and the Dag Hammarskjold Foundation of Uppsala, Sweden.

As a member of the SUNS Advisory Board and the Board of the Inter Press Service, Jamal worked hard for the democratization of communication and information and information flows.

Of Indian origin, but born like his parents in Tanzania, Amir Jamal came from a trading family. He studied in India where, one of his memories, was of the meeting of the Indian National Congress in Bombay in 1942, when Gandhi gave the call to the British to "Quit India", and launched another of his movements that brought independence.

In Tanzania, he fully cooperated and worked in the Nationalist movement, at considerable personal difficulties to him and his family. He was one of the five nominees of the liberation Nationalist Movement, TANC, to be a Minister in the then predominantly colonial government in 1959. He continued to serve the country after independence, being regularly appointed a Minister from 1961 till 1989 -- having held office at various times as Minister of Finance, Commissioner for Planning, Minister for Communications and Works, Minister for Trade and Industry -- often being named to posts or ministries needing difficult management and self-less commitment.

Jamal's utter integrity, dedication and selfless service and his great ability and personal goodness were recognized throughout Tanzania and his was repeatedly elected with ever-increasing majorities from predominantly African constituencies.

Jamal leaves behind a widow, three sons and a daughter.

 

[Choveki]

Mzee Es,
....au nywele zake!.....Kwangu mimi hata awe mzungu ili mradi ana nia safi na mchapaka kazi nampa uongozi.........Samahani kwa kutofautiana na nyinyi. FD

Fikiraduni nadhani watu wa majuu husema.." nipe tano basi" ...sineni wala siongezi neno hapa...Ahsante
Mkandara Ahsante kwa ku-simplify post yangu na kuifanya ieleweke zaidi .. nawe pokea tano :lol: .

 

[Mugishagwe]

Asante kwa hii habari ambayo ina mapambo mengi lakini sijaona justfication ya yeye kuzikwa Canada wakati ni Mtanzania aliye heshimika sana .Kama Mwinyi alikauka je Mwalimu alihudhuria mazishi huko Canada ??Nauliza bwana kwa nini azikwe Canada au ndiyo uwe mwisho wa wageni kukamata Nchi yetu maana hawana uchungu hawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[Field Marshall ES]

Unajua asiyekubali kushindwa sio mshindani, I mean mzee Jasusi you are very clear kuhusu hii issue na siwezi kuhoji sources zako, na mzee Bob, Choveki you guys have a strong point,

Wewe mkuu FD hapana, kura yako mpigie mzungu sisi tutapigia wabongo wenzetu, ukweli ni kwamba hatujui Jamal ni kwa nini alizikwa huko majuu lakini mzee Jasusi ana strong points kwani yule Mhindi hakuwa na mali pamoja na kwamba alikuwa na kila nafasi ya kuwa nayo kutumia nafasi yake ya uongozi,

Great debate, great point, ila tutakutana tu mbele ya safari,

Now next Topic!

 

[Mkandara]

Mungishangwe,
Hapa bado unarudisha swali ambalo sote hatuwezi kuwa na jibu. Ikiwa jamal alipenda azikwe Bongo lakini mwanae kaamua kumzika baba yake Canada, nadhani hili swali tungewatupia viongozi wetu.
Unajua ume-raise swali moja kubwa sana...
Jamal kazikwa Canada kama raia tu asiyekuwa na background ya uongozi Tanzania. Nafikiri inabidi sisi wenyewe tuwe na aibu jinsi tulivyofanya na sio jamal na fgamilia yake. Baada ya Jamal kuondoka ktk ulingo wa siasa ndio basi tena, Utanzania wake ulikwisha machoni pake na ndio maana hatukujali kumhudumia kwa matibabu ama kufuatilia afya yake huko nje.
Labda swali kama hilo tuulize UTAWALA wetu. Kwa nini hawakuthamini matakwa ya marehemu kabla hajafa..Nikifa nizikwe Bongo.

 

[Interested Observer]

Sijali rangi ya mtu, dini ya mtu lakini siwezi kuvumilia vitu hivi:
1. Rais wangu atafia kwenye nchi nyingine - Hamna uchungu ninaoupata kama kuona kuwa charismatic man kama JKN alifia nchi za wenzetu! Baba yako akafie kwa jirani kwa kuw a wewe huna uwezo! Uwezo wa hospitali nzuri? Jamani niambieni nyie huwa haliwaumi hili? Sisi nasi tujiite nchi!!
2. Mtu anayefikia kuwa kiwango cha waziri wa nchi lazima (samahani), kwa mawazo yangu lazima azikwe Tanzania.

Mkuu JK kama leo unaweza kusoma hili i-upgrade hospitali ya Lugalo (ile ya jeshi), viongozi iwepo presidential ward, uwezo huo upo. Halafu tafuta sehemu iwe Heroes Acre. Dunia nzima inafanya hivi. Jamani utamaduni huu kila nchi inao, sisi kweli hatuna nyuma wala mbele. Tusimlinganishe Rais au Waziri na seamen au mfanyakazi wakawaida anayefia nje!

Hii ni sawa na kina-fujimori (Peru) leo anakuwa Rais kesho anakimbilia Japani, ati ana Uraia wa japani wakati ni rais wa Peru. Please on this we cannot compromise.

 

[Nyamgluu]

Mimi najijua kuwa si mbaguzi wa rangi.
Ila I find it rediculous that self respecting Africans can claim that they find it alright to let a Tanzanian of a non black ethnicity be the president of our country!

You must be joking. There will never be a bigger insult to an African nation than that of letting the seed of a former slave owner/colonizer be the leader of an African nation. Not only does history provide evidence opposing such convictions but current attitudes and actions of non black people and individuals toward black africans are a constant reminder of how WE as black people are always viewed as "the unfortunate/inferior others" by all other races.
Leo hii, eti kweli muafrika na akili zako timamu unakuja nakusema "mimi sijali rangi, wala nywele nampa yeyote kura yangu kuwa raisi". How dare you :x That is an insult to every black African that has died on the hands of a foreign oppressor.
If this is the only alternative to a succesful African nation than may we perish in poverty.(Better be a stray dog and free, then a fat domesticated one on a leash)

Yes there are and can be qualified and efficient Tanzanian Indians and Arabs in our midst, but there are numerous ways of making effective use of them other than giving them key governmental positions.
Mwanakijiji aliyoko Marekani, anafahamu fika kuwa si kila Genius au excellent professor aliyehamia Marekani anafanya Waziri! We unacheza kweli!!! NASA imejaza neutralised citizens from all over the world, but you never here a rediculous claim like making one of them citizens! Hata fifth generation Asians wanaopasua darasani hawafanywi mawaziri e.t.c. ila wanatumiwa kama commentators na advisors of their respective fileds of expertise.
Hatuwezi kuwapa nafasi nyeti za serikali, kwasababu kwanza kabisa their loyalty is in question despite the fact that they are Tanzanians by every sense of the word! We don't see them in the army, we don't see them inter-marry, we dont see them assimilate e.t.c.

Tuta encourage na kuwasaidia kuendesha biashara zao, na tutafwatlia kwa karibu uendeshaji wa biashara zao ili kuzuia ulimbikizaji fedha, tuta waalika na kuwa ajiri kama advisors wa serikali katika maeneo mbali mbali e.g. uchumi, afya e.t.c., tutawatumia pale tunapoona kuwa watafaa zaidi e.g. muarabu kwenda kuongea maswala ya biashara huko uarabuni kama mshauri wa waziri e.t.c.

Lakini we will be IDIOTS of the 1st order if we ever allow an Indian or Arab to be President of Tanzania! Hayo ni matusi! Na muafrika yeyote aliye suggest hili aende haraka kuomba msamaha kwenye makaburi ya the ancestors! How humiliating!

 

[FairPlayer]

Mzee Es,

Nakubali, na wewe kubali tukubaliane kutokubaliana.

Nyamgluu, Karibu sana humu, umetoa points sana ndugu yangu watu kama wewe tulikuwa tuna wa miss sana jkwenye hizi forum.

Jamani, Idea yangu ni kama ya kimarekani, USA imeendelea sana sababu sina haja ya kuzirudia. Hata wametawaliwa na rais mwenye asili ya Ireland, nyinyi masikini wa kutupa hamtaki watu wenye asili fulani kutawala, why?, no wonder miaka 44 ya Uhuru mpo hapo mlipo mnapiga hatua kumi mbele mnarudi 20 nyuma kisha mnajipongeza!

Tunachtaka ni maendeleo Period! hizo mila na mababu anaowaongelea ndio wametufikisha hapa tulipo na still tunaendelea kubaya!!, Uganda iliyosumbuliwa na vita vya wenyewe kwa wenyewe wanakuja kwa kasi sasa.. sijasahau Ug shillingi alfu kwa tzs moja.. Leo??!!

Tumejaa ubinafsi, ubaguzi na umimi sana. No wonder rais wenu anafanya hayo hayo ya kubebana kwenye baraza la mawaziri (idadi kubwa ili washkaji waingie) yoote hayo ni kuwa tuna usisi sana!!!

Mzee Es usije ukafikiri kuwa nataka aje mgeni kutawala...NO! ninachosema ni kuwa kama kuna mzungu wa kiingereza ambaye baba yake yupo hapa nchini na labda ameoa mhindi wa Ki TZ au black mtoto wao kama yupo fit mi nampa kura tu....

Lengo ni maendeleo na kiongozi BORA sio BORA KIONGOZI

FD

 

[Kimbembe]

Piga ua nasema mwiko , marufuku , ni aibu , fedheha , ujinga, uendawazimu kama utaweza kusema Mnyarwanda wa damu kakaa Tanzania anaweza kuwa Rais wa Tanzania kisa ana uwezo na ni Mnyarwanda wa kuzaliwa .Mifano mmeiona woteb .Baada ya Kagame wangapi walicha kazi na nafasui kubwa TZ wakaenda kuwa na Kagame ? Mmeona Marehemu Mzee Jamal kazikwa Canada sababu leo mnasema hamzijui jamani .NI aibu kabisa na si swala la Ubaguzi Dunia ndiyo ilivyo na imetufikisha hapo .Mnaongelea Marekani mbali sana huko nendeni Uganda ama Kenya muone kama kweli kuna mgeni anaweza kufikia hatua hiyo.Juzi nilisema na jamaa mmoja mkenya akasema Kimbembe nawashangaa sana Tanzania .Kenya kuna matatizo lakini when it comes to Citizenship na National security man no joke.Lazima ujulikane kisawa sawa .Sisi Kinana anajulikana vyema kwmaba si Mtanzania lakini bado CCM inamfanyia mbinu na kumkimbiza kwenda EA.Jamani tuamke si ubaguzi wala nini.

Leo hii mnasema swala la uraia lakini kuna ubaguzi wa wazi huku nje.Nenda uarabu uhububiri Ukristo na uombe nafasi ya kujenfa Kanisa uone ,kifo unakipata hapo hapo .Huo ndiyo ubaguzi lakini wale wale wakija wewe unawachekea na kuwapa kila kitu .Siasa za Dunia ni nzito na tuamke .Salim hafai kuwa na hatafaa tena kuwa rais wa Nchi na Tanzanai tukatae Dual Citizenship hatutapata Wazalendo ila watu kama Mzee Jamal kafa kazikwa Canada leo hatujui sababu .Niaamini Mzee ruksa ni mtu wa Dini asingalikataa kutoa ushirikiano wa kumelata Marehemu Jamal kuzikkwa TZ tena ikizingatiwa kwamba Mwalimu naye alikuywa hai by that time.Amkeni acheni kuongea kwa kufuata mkumbo hakuna mtu wa damu ya Kiingereza can feel for us Tanzanians hakuna never on earth .