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Yupi mkali kati ya Wenger na Ferguson.

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Good Guy, Nov 18, 2010.

  1. Good Guy

    Good Guy JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Jf members nisaidieni yupi wa ukweli kati ya Wenger na Fergusom, plz toeni na sababu
     
  2. hashycool

    hashycool JF-Expert Member

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    kaka unauliza makofi polisi! fergie mwisho wa reli kaka......
     
  3. Ndumbayeye

    Ndumbayeye JF-Expert Member

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    wenger. kwa sababu mafanikio ya arsenal yanapatikana kwa gharama ndogo sana.
     
  4. J

    Joba Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
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    Wenger kwakuwa natrain mwenyewe wanapomaliza kunyonya. Fargie ye anazoa mangendaeka tu!
     
  5. Mtazamaji

    Mtazamaji JF-Expert Member

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    Ukiangalia kishabiki zaidi utasema Ferguson lakini ukiweka variables zote halisi za dunia ya sasa kama ukata ,uchumi na hata mpira kama sanaa basi si budi umkubali wenger.

    Ukiangalia sera anazosimamia wenger anakumbia TEAM work. Hapendi dhana ya mchezaji fulani kulipwa mara nne ya wachezaji wenzake.
    Wenger anasema kina Ronaldo Messi wako wengi sana duniani sema wengine hawajulikani na hawajapewa nafasi
     
  6. Eqlypz

    Eqlypz JF-Expert Member

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    Mkali wa nini? Ukishatueleza hapo tunaweza kujibu.

    Mafanikio yapi?
    "You will never win anything with kids" unakumbuka hayo maneno yalisemwa na nani na kwenda kwa nani?
     
  7. Anyisile Obheli

    Anyisile Obheli JF-Expert Member

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    yepi hayo ya kuifikisha timu fainali bila vikombe? au unaweza kutusaidia japo mafanikio ya Wenger ndani
    ya miaka mitano iliyopita?
     
  8. Anyisile Obheli

    Anyisile Obheli JF-Expert Member

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    kwa mafanikio ya timu na vikombe Mzee furgy juu
     
  9. Eqlypz

    Eqlypz JF-Expert Member

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    Wako wengi lakini inatakiwa kocha mwenye ujuzi kuwaturn kuwa level hiyo, wachezaji wangapi walikuwa na potential wakaishia njiani> Angalia mtu kama Balotelli yuko talented lakini hana mtu wa kumuangalia na kumfunza.

    Mpaka sasa muanzisha thread hajasema anawalinganisha kwenye nini asa, kwa hiyo majibu yetu yatakuwa yamebase kwenye ushabiki na kukisia tu.
     
  10. Bantugbro

    Bantugbro JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
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    Ingawaje simpendi laini naona Faggie ni zaidi, ana uwezo wa kuigeuza Asernal ambayo haichukui vikombe kwa sasa ndani ya misimu miwili tu na kuanza kubeba vikombe. Haya mpatie Wenger MU atakaa nayo miaka hata sita bila ya kikombe chochote..:tape:.

    Ni lazima kuwaheshimu makocha waliowahi kuchukukua UEFA Champions league, si unaona watu kama King Carlo, Maurinhyo, Fergie hawa ni watu wenye uwezo wa hali ya kipekee kwenye fani hii..mafanikio yao si ya kubahatisha!
     
  11. Kweli

    Kweli JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Nov 18, 2010
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    Kwa kweli hatuwezi kufananisha, kwa vile kila mmoja yuko na strength na weakness zao, kama alivosema Eqylpyz inategemea vile kusema mafanikio unamaanisha nini? kwangu mimi mafanikio yanajumuisha mambo mengi trophies, club stability, man management, Club development, youth development, team set - up na kadhalika.
     
  12. Kweli

    Kweli JF-Expert Member

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    Tuambie ilimchukua miaka mingapi Fergie kupata kikombe cha kwanza?
    Jee unajua bajeti ya Man Utd wakati wanashinda UEFA? na hata hivi sasa pamoja na madeni yao unajua kwamba bajeti ya Man utd ni kubwa zaidi ya ile ya Arsenal ?
    Ninachotaka kukufahamisha ni kwamba ni rahisi kocha hata mediocre seuze Fergie kupata mafanikio iwapo mfuko umetuna mfano Chelsea mwanzo wa Abramovich era ama Man City ya sasa .
     
  13. Bantugbro

    Bantugbro JF-Expert Member

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    Samahani kama natoka kidogo nje ya mada, ninachosisitiza no kuwa ni vigumu kulinganisha kichwa kilichotwaa UEFA champs. League na kocha wa kawaida.

    Suala la bajeti kubwa si hoja kwa sababu Maurinhyo ameshachukua UEFA champs na porto timu yenye bajeti ndog sana, halafu akenda kuchukua UEFA champs tena na Inter lakini wakati alipokuwa Chelsea timu yenye bajeti kubwa kuliko hizo alishindwa.

    Point yangu ni kuwa hawa makocha wenye uwezo wa caliba ya Feggie ni vichwa haswaa na huwa ni lulu, nadhani unamkubuka yule Vicente Del Bosque alipokuwa Madrid wakamtimua wakati alishawapa UEFA champs. Ukame uliofuata pale Banebeau nadhani unautambua. Mungu si athumani, yule mzee Vicente Del Bosque akapewa timu ya taifa ya Spain bila ya kubahatisha akaja chukua World Cup Sauzi....

    Wenger bado haja-proove beyond doubt kuwa yeye ni kocha wa kuwekwa kwenye daraja la akina Ferggie...
     
  14. m

    matambo JF-Expert Member

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    mimi ni arsenal mkubwa, lakinoi lazima nikiri ferguson yupo juu ya wenger, zamani nilikuwa nafikiri kinyume chake lakini miaka ya karibuni imenifanya nifikiri vizuri
    ferguson anamzidi mbali sana wenger kwa sababu zangu zifuatazo
    1: ferguson ameweza kutwaa vikombe vingi vya uingereza EPL,FA NA LEAGUE CUP katika miaka yake 14 aliyokaa manchester(1986-2000) kuliko miaka 14 aliyokaa wenger arsenal(1996-2010)
    2:Ferguson amekuwa akibadilika kimatazamo kila baada ya kipindi flani wakati wenger amebaki vilevile,maana yangu ferguson amekuwa akifocus ubingwa wakati wenger amekuwa akifocus kushiriki na si kutwaa vikombe. hili linatokana na ukweli kuwa wenger hata timu yake inapokuwa mbovu vipi au inapokabiliwa na majeruhi kibao anaweza asisajili akitegemea wachezaji wake watapona kisha washinde ligi, kitu ambacho hakiingii akilini
    3:tactically, ferguson anaweza kucheza na timu mojamoja(akabadilisha aina ya kikosi na aina ya uchezaji) kulingana na timu pinzani ilivyo, ndio maana unaweza ukashangaa kina ji sung park au nani au o'shea wasiwe wanapata namba lakini siku wakicheza na arsenal hawa watapangwa maana wanaweza kukaba aina ya wachezaji wa arsenal, lakini wenger siku zote ataingia na timu ileile ,style ileile na game plan ileile
    4:ferguson ameweza kuspot vijana wadogo waliokuja kuwa wachezaji wazuri zaidi kuliko wenger alivyospot hao youngsters, wengi wa wachezaji vijana wa arsenal wamefail kuwika mbele ya safari
    5:wengi wa wachezaji waliopita kwa ferguson wameweza kuwa makocha wazuri mfano mark hughes,steve bruce,bryan robson,roy keane,coppell,etc wakati hatujaona makocha kutoka kwa wenger labda tony adams
    6:ferguson amefanikiwa kutwaa champions league wenger hajawahi
    7:ferguson amewahi toa mchezaji bora wa dunia wenger hajawahi



    mengine ongezeeni wenyewe bwana aarghh!!!
     
  15. 3D.

    3D. JF-Expert Member

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    Umeandika mambo ya msingi sana. Mimi si shabiki sana wa mpira. Kuna wakati nakumbuka kulikuwa na mechi kati ya Liverpool na Man UTD, kipindi hicho Liver ilikuwa imegawa dozi kwa timu kadhaa, jamaa mmoja nilimsikia akisema, "Liver usiione inang'ara hivi, yule babu si utaona, atawapanga akina O'Shea halafu Liver watalizwa." Matokeo yakawa Man 1 Liver 0 na mfungaji alikuwa O'Shea!!
     
  16. m

    mosesk Member

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    Nov 19, 2010
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    Matatizo tuliyonayo mashabiki watanzania ni yale ambayo waliotutawala wameturithisha, maneno mengi sana lakini ukweli ni kuwa mpira siyo rahisi kama tunavyofikiria. Sasa hapa jamvini tunazungumzia ushabiki lakini zaidi ya yote kama ilivyo kwa klabu nyingi za bongo na za uingereza. Mashabiki ndiyo chanzo cha kudhoofika kwa mpira katika nchi yaTanzania na Uingereza, mashabiki wanachukulia mambo kijujuu tu bila hata kunzingatia maana halisi ya mpira.


    Rafiki yangu mmoja aliniambia siku moja kuwa anaona kuwa mataifa yote yaliyotawaliwa na mwingereza yana matatizo sana kwenye mpira, lakini wanaongea sana, wanalaumu sana.


    Kwa ufupi ni ngumu moja kwa moja kusema huyu ni kiboko zaidi ya mwingine mpaka kwanza uzingatie vitu vingi ikiwa na uwezo wa kiuchumi, falsafa ya timu n.k. Mfano kuna timu zenyewe kwa gharama yoyote zinataka kuchukua makombe yaani zenye malengo ya muda mfupi, mfano Man City, Chelesea, Real Madrid. Kwa hiyo timu hizi hazihitaji kocha anayejenga timu ikawa na mfumo wake inaojitambulisha nao na haihitaji burudani yenyewe ni magoli tu.

    Kuendesha timu za namna hii inatakiwa ziwe na fedha nje ya uzalishaji wake yenyewe vinginevyo haiwezi kujibeba. Kimsingi Furgeson na Wenger wanaheshimiana lakini kila mtu kwa staili yake na historia yake.

    Mimi nitamchambua mmmoja mmoja.

    Alex Furgerson:
    Kwanza alipoaanza kazi Man U ilimchukua miaka sita kuchukua kikombe cha kwanza, mtu anaweza kuuliza kwa nini hakufukuzwa muda wote huo bila kikombe?. Wenye timu walifahamu mkakati, dira na mipango yake na pia walikuwa wanasubira. Alichukua wachezaji baadhi mahili lakini alikuwa na mpango wa kukuza vijana. Kizazi hiki cha Scholes, Beckham, Nevile (twins), Giggs n.k ni matunda ya ya uvumilivu na mkakati mahususi na umeisaidi Man U kudumu katika kiwango cha hali ya juu.

    Lakini pia Furgeson ni mwingereza na anawajua waingereza wenzeka kuwa siyo wavumilivu ndiyo maana wakati mwingine huingia gharama kubwa kuwaridhisha. Kimsingi ni kocha mwenye malengo ya mbali na ya muda mfupi, mfano ni kwamba Man U siku za karibuni imeyumba kidogo ni kutokana na mabadiliko taratiibu ya kutoka kizazi kimoja kwenda kingine. Muda na kasi ya waliokuwa vijana wenye shughuli pevu umepiita ndiyo maana unaona damu changa kama Macheda, Fabio, Chicharito, Diofu n.k


    Arsene Wenger:


    Kama ilivyo kwa Ferguson ni makocha wenye utaratibu na mikakati kwa timu zao, tofauti na Ferguson ni kwamba historia na rasilimali za kila timu ziko tofauti. Wakati anaingia Wenger aliwakuta wachezaji ambao walikuwa kwenye kiwango cha juu na ambao walikuwa wamefikia umri mkubwa katika soka kama akina Ian Wright, Tony Adams na wengineo ambao waliwarith kutoka kwa Graham na kafanikiwa kuchukua kikombe mwaka 1998. Wakati hayo yote yakifanyika wachezaji wengi walikuwa wamefikia umri mkubwa na wengine kuaza kustafu.

    Na hivyo ilihitajika wachezaji wapya kuziba hayo mapengo na alikuwa na uchaguzi wa aina mbili tu kununua wa wachezaji wa kiwango cha juu au kutengeneza wachezaji wake. Njia ya pili ilikuwa rahisi kuliko ile ya kwanza kwa sababu pia kulikuwa na ufinyu wa budget na hii ilitokana kutokuwa na vitega uchumi vya kutosha iliyo sababishwa na uwanja mdogo wa Highbury ambao uko sawa na uwanja wa Hull City wa sasa.

    Ukiangalia hayo yote unaona kuwa Wenger amefanikiwa sehemu mbili kufanya mabadiliko ya uchumi ndani ya club na wakati huo kuifanya timu inayocheza mpira mzuri na kufanikiwa kucheza robo fainal zote za UEFA champion katika kipindi hicho. wakati huo kuisaidia club kiuchumi kwa kutumia fedha kidogo.


    Ndiyo maana leo uingereza makocha ambao kazi zao ziko salam na zinalindwa ni Wenger na Ferguson. Tofauti na wengine wote wapo kwenye presha ya kufukuzwa muda wowote ambao timu haishindi na haileti kikombe.

    Jana kwenye kipindi cha SkySports baada ya mechi ya jana Ufaransa na Uingereza , watu wamemlaumu sana Cappelo kwa kuchezesha watoto akina Gibbs, Jialeka (kucheza namba ambayo hakuizoea), Carrol kwa kushindwa kufunga magoli lakini ni waingereza wale wale baada ya World Cup walisema wanataka damu changa , vijana na wakawapigia debe sana baadhi ya wachezaji vijana.


    Kwa hiyo ninachosema tusipenda sana kutoa conclusion kirahisi tu bila kuangalia facts.
     
  17. Oxlade-Chamberlain

    Oxlade-Chamberlain JF-Expert Member

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    asante sana mkuu kwa jinsi uliweza ku-balance uchambuzi wako .sina cha kuongezea kwani umeweza kuangalia vigezo vyote.
     
  18. Oxlade-Chamberlain

    Oxlade-Chamberlain JF-Expert Member

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  19. g

    gutierez JF-Expert Member

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    ilimchukua miaka 5 akabeba kombe la washindi barani ulaya(imeungana na europa cup siku hizi) Fergie 1991,mwaka 1983 alibeba kombe la washindi barani ulaya akiwa na Aberdeen ya Scotland,tatizo moja la Wenger wachezaji nidhamu na hawana kucheza teamwork,wakipata majina kidogo tu wanaringa na kuhama eg chukulia arsenal ya unbeaten first eleven(achilia mbali Gael Clichy alikuwa sub wa Ashley Cole) mpaka leo hakuna hata 1 aliebaki,Fergie mpaka leo Giggs,Scholes na Gary Neville wana miaka zaidi ya 15 klabuni,Arsenal ya Wenger alikuwa Dennis Bergkamp tu ndie aliedumu zaidi ya miaka 10 klabuni
     
  20. g

    gutierez JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona Liverpool kabeba uefa champions league 2005 na ilikuwa haina maprosoo,Wenger ajaribu kuwajenga wachezaji ile moyo wa kuipenda timu,si unaona Rooney juzi kutishia kuondoka Man utd,kina Evra,Nani,Fletcher na Vidic walimuambia Man Utd haikuitaji wewe,ila wewe ndio unaiitaji Man Utd,sasa Vieira alikuwa anatingisha kiberiti kidogo Arsenal wakati ule anabembelezwa kama yai hadi akaondoka kisa hajabeba Uefa Champs ligi alidai anataka hilo kombe
     
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