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WTO talks have failed

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Game Theory, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    The aim is to push the WTO’s membership – over 150 countries - to do a new all-encompassing trade deal covering in particular agricultural products, manufactured goods and the ‘rights’ of multinational service companies to set up operations across the world.

    Anyway for JF members interested...plse read here



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7531099.stm
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2008
  2. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    It was naive to think that "the world" would agree on these changes all at once..!! Imagine China, India, US, Brazil and EU..when was the last time they both agree on anything??

    I think poor countries should learn to depend more on each other rather than expecting that one day developed world will free their markets. The only way to make the US and EU listen is through trade of raw material. Poor countries should sell everything from oil, raw material to food to each other and leave nothing for the US or EU market. Eventually the will pay attention.
     
  3. N

    NakuliliaTanzania JF-Expert Member

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    We all knew that this was coming....we still have a long way to go. What is the role of the so called G22? of course they cant do anything against the G8...and unfortunately India, Brazil, China and South Africa kind of agreed that 'no deal is a bad deal'....so back to square one.

    tunawapa tu rasilimali zetu bure huku hatuwezi kuwauzia kitu!
     
  4. Mzeeba

    Mzeeba Senior Member

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    Yote hii kwa ajili ya Mikungu ya ndizi tu kazi ipo. Sisi tuzalishe kwa ajili ya matumbo yetu kwanza, ndio tufikirie kwa Jirani
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    hivi kuna tatizo gani kwenye hii WTO? huu mwaka wa ngapi sasa mazungumzo yanaishia kucollapse. Kwanini yasiwe regional au kuacha iwe bilateral?
     
  6. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

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    nchi zilizoendelea zinataa kutumia WTO kukandamiza nchi masikini......pongezi nyingi kwa India na China kwa kuonyesha msimamo wa kulinda wakulima wao.

    nchi kama tanzania nafikiri zinaweza kujifunza kutoka kwa misimamo ya nchi hizo
     
  7. Mzeeba

    Mzeeba Senior Member

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    Halafu watanyonya Je? Mambo yalivyo sasa they have a win win situation (wakulima wao wanawasaidia na bado wananunua cheaply toka kwetu) na hawataki ibadilike. Hizi talks zikipita itakuwa pigo sana kwa wenye makampuni makubwa yanayo shughulika na kilimo katika nchi za magharibi. Ukizingatia haya makampuni ni makubwa sana impact yake kwenye uchumi wa hizi nchi will be huge in a negative way. Kusema ukweli it is a very bitter pill for them to swallow.

    tunachoweza kufanya ni kuelekeza nguvu zetu katika kufanya biashara kati yetu (nchi zinazoendelea). hili limeshaanza kwa kiasi kikubwa na lina washtua wao pia ( unakumbuka mkutano wa viongozi wa Afrika na China walivyo ushikia bango? Au deal za china na India etc.)

    Kama Africa kuna watu karibia milioni 900 (kwa figure za 2005) hili ni soko tosha kwa bidhaa zetu. hii ni karibia 15% ya idadi ya watu wote duniani.

    Swali ni kwa nini tunaliruka hili soko na kukimbilia ya magharibi? Halafu tunataka a flat playing feild!!! Ni ngumu sana. Wako wanaosema tunakimbilia huko kwa ajili ya uwezo wa kifedha wa wanunuzi wa huko (sawa), lakini na sisi tukifanya biashara kati yetu ndio mwanzo wa kukuza hicho kipato. La sivyo tukubali uwanja wa ugenini ni mgumu na refa akiwa wa timu pinzani sioni kama tutaweza shinda. na kuingia kwenye hayo mashindano to start with shows how Kushoto we are. Tuanze viwanja vyetu vya mchangani, tujijengee uwezo na tutajenga na viwanja vipya.

    Kusema kweli siamini kama itakuja siku kwa kupitia WTO kuwe na an equal playing field
     
  8. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu acha huu utani ndugu! Unayoyaandika I wish ningekubaliana nayo.

    Hivi unafikiri katika hiyo population ya raia million 900 ya Africa..ni wangapi wana purchasing power? mfano..ni wangapi wanakula kitu kama siagi au jibini? Reality is..Africans never learn. Unless we create middle class yenye uwezo wa kununua..we are doomed!

    WTO is an instrument of the big powers to make their deals easy. Na wala I can assure you..hawa jamaa hawamezi bitter pills wala nini kwa sababu uchumi wao hautegemei kilimo as we do. Makampuni makubwa sasa yanajikita katika kuprocess chakula wakati sisi tunahangaika kulisha watu wetu na kuexport mali ghafi.

    Chakula kinachokosa soko ndicho hicho...wanawapa UN wanaokuja kugawa misaada kwenye "makambi ya wakambizi na sehemu zenye maafa ya njaa" hivi unafikiri ukisikia serikali fulani imetoa msaada wa millions kwa nchi fulani..you think wanatoa pesa $$$ perse? no way..wanadump hata vyakula vyao...its scary man..

    Hivi kweli masikini na maskini mtafanya biashara gani? Tanzania analima kahawa..Burundi analima kahawa..so is Kenya..sasa tutaexport na kuimport nini? Can Tanzania import flowers from Kenya? tuyafanyie nini maua?

    China na India wanatuchezea shere just like the rest..sisi tunafurahi kwa sababu tunaona China kamkatalia US..si kwa sababu tutafaidika..tunafurahi tuu ilmradi aliyegomewa ni US na EU ambaye tunamuona ni adui yetu. But China hana NIA NJEMA NA SISI.

    Ukweli ni kwamba Afrika tumeshindwa kustrategize kilimo cha kutufaa (hata Green revolution ya Kofi Anani) haijatusaidia chochote. Hebu fanya survey yako uangalie nchi za Africa zinatenga kiasi gani kwa ajili ya bajeti ya kilimo na ujiulize EU wanaspend kiasi gani kwenye subsidies..utapata jibu.

    All in All I say hii WTO ilianzishwa kwa mbwembwe nyingi sana...na mazungumzo hayawezi kufanikiwa kwa sababu itaumiza maslahi ya wakubwa....Its only Africa ambayo haifikirii maslahi ya raia wake in whatever they do.

    Bila kuwa na strong middle class, Africa can never achieve anything. we need to set our priorities. Product za ulaya zinapata soko kwetu kwa sababu ziko cheap..na kwa sababu wananchi wetu walio wengi ni maskini, what do you expect? si mara mia ule frozen kuku wa shillingi elfu mbili from France kuliko fresh kuku wa elfu tano from Muheza?

    Africa, bado saaana...safari ndefu!
     
  9. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Pamoja na kuwa Afrika ipo katika disavantaged position economically, lakini tatizo jingine kubwa lipo kwenye mentality. Nchi nyingi za Afrika zimeingia kwenye mazungumzo haya bila kujua wanajadili nini (ina broader sense). Hata ukiwauliza ajenda zao wakati wanapokwenda kwenye vikao, majibu amjbayo unaweza kuyaopata yanayoleta sense ni "ajenda zinategemea na wakubwa wanasemaje." Hii inaonyesha kuwa hatujui tuna negotiate kitu gani. wapo baadhi ya viongozi ambao vikao hivi kwao wao vina maala ya ulaji kwa njia ya posho wanazolipwa.
    tena, as a continent, sijui Afrika ilijiandaa na mkakati gani katika mazungumzo haya. kwa sababu siku zote tunasikia mazungumzo yanakwama kotokana na misimamo ya hao wanaitwa wakubwa. Mbona hatujasikia hata wishes za Afrika, achilia mbali misimamo yake katika mambo ya msingi kuhusiana na masuala haya?
     
  10. e

    eddy JF-Expert Member

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    Soko la africa (pop 900m) tusilipuuze sana, kenya uganda na sudani ya kusini (GOSS) wanahangaika kupata mchele wa tz, badala ya kuweka mikakati ya kuongeza uzalishaji sasa mkuu wa mkoa Mara kawa mgambo yuko busy kukamata malori yaliyobeba shehena za mchele na mahindi. sasa hivi juba kilo ya mchele ni us$3 na haupatikani kwani wanautegemea kutoka tz kupitia kenya na uganda.

    tayari kcb wameshafungua tawi juba na ndio benki pekee katika mji uliosheheni mashirika ya UN. Watafungua matawi burundi rwanda na kongo. Hivyo exim wasiishie kufungua tawi moroni wajaribu bujumbura na kigali.

    Precision Air wanaweza anzisha domestic flight nchini kongo ambako nchi ni pana sana na hakuna barabara za kutosha kuliko kunyang'anyana abiria humuhumu.

    Makampuni kama TBL, Cocacola, Caspian, Tanesco, Gapco, CRDB, NBC, IPP na ALAF kama kila moja likawekeza japo nchi tano za africa tutapata capital gain transfer japo kidogo, yataajiri watz katika nafasi nyeti ili kulinda mitaji yao na hivyo kuongeza ajira kwa watz.

    Nasikia Imalaseko wanaendelea vizuri nchini Zimbabwe na Malawi. Hivyo makampuni mengine yanaweza iga na serikali iweke sera nzuri ili hizo faida zitakazopatikana zirudi nchini na reserved capital ziweze kuhifadhiwa katika mabenki ya hapa kwetu.

    Serikali iweke mkakati wa kuweka mikataba ya kibiashara na nchi za africa ili wawekezaji toka tanzania wahakikishiwe usalama wa mitaji yao. Tupeleke majeshi yetu kulinda amani ambako tz inavitega uchumi vyake au inategemea kuwekeza.
     
  11. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Eddy, unayoyasema yanamake sense, lakini kumbuka kuwa lile suala la purchasing power linamatter pia. Kumbuka hata masuala ya pertnership hizi ndogondogo (SADC, COMESA, ECOWAS) vinatuletea matatizo sana.
    Iwapo tunashindwa kuendesha mambo haya huku kwetu, unadhani tutakuwa katika nafasi gani tunapoenda WTO bila kuwa na ajenda na mkakati unaoeleweka?
     
  12. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu ukifikiria yooote..unapata jibu moja tuu..sijui nani alituroga. Eddy alichoandika hapo juu..nadhani hata waziri mkuu angekuwa na mawazo kama hayo tungetoka! Sometimes nafikiria serikali haifikirii kabisa.

    Hivi kweli unategemea mtu kama Martin Lumbanga balozi wetu UN GENEVA AMBAKO NDO ANATUWAKILISHA KWENYE MIKUTANO KAMA HIYO (NO PUN INTENDEND)..Atakuwa na jipya kweli? Kifupi kama ulivyosema mkuu..sisi hatuna agenda..tunasindikiza tuu..ndo maana tukiona China na India wamegoma sisi tunashangilia tuu..Jiulize leo Mapuri ndo balozi wa TZ KWENYE NCHI strategic kama China! harafu unategemea nini? Hii mikataba at times tunasain wakati hatujui implications zake....

    Angalia MADC au RC..baada ya kuwa na strategies..kazi yao kubwa ni ukada wa chama kuhakikisha mzee anarudi madarakani..kifupi serikali inaspend alot kwa unprodcutive people..kwa siasa kama hizi hatuwezi songa mbele. I can assure you. Africa tuna matatizo mengi..lakini most of the good ideas wengi walizonazo haziwezi fanikiwa bila political will au ONGOZI MAHIRI.

    Naamini hata wazungu wameshatuchoka..kwa sababu ni sisi tuu hatusikii! ni kulalamika.

    Unajua katika international diplomacy..unahitaji negotiators ambao ni vichwa! ndo maana US na wakubwa wengine..wakituma mjumbe kwenye mashirika kama hayo..anakuwa ni kichwa kweli kweli..he/she knows how to get what they want..sisi tunapeana vyeo kwa ulaji tuu..harafu unategemea nini..

    Eddy, Soko ni muhimu mno...kama leo tunalia na EAC, SADC, COMESA..tutaweza kwenda Juba kweli? lazima tuwawezeshe wananchi kuwa na uwezo wa kununua! thats what China has aggressively done! bila kuwa na tabaka la kati..hata kama ungekwenda kuinvest wapi..huwezi fanikiwa.

    Afrika needs to reset its mindset. Kumlaumu mzungu kwa matatizo yetu..ni politics za past ambao tumewaachia akina Mugabe wafe nazo kama itawezekana! we have to pull up our socks..no shortcut.
     
  13. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Na pia tukumbuke kuzalisha kwa gharama za chini na kwa ubora wa juu ili bidhaa tunazozalisha ziweze kushindana katika soko la kimataifa. Tukifanya hivyo tunaweza kuwapiku wachina wanaosambaza bidhaa duni duniani kote lakini zinagombea kwa sababu zina bei ya chini.
    Hivi tulishaamua kuwa foreign policy yetu inajikita kwenye economic diplomacy? What happened to mkakati wa kutekeleza hilo?
     
  14. Mzeeba

    Mzeeba Senior Member

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    Nadhani kwanza nianze kwa kusema pitia tena niliyoandika vizuri. Kuhusu purchasing power nimeliongelea sema kwa kiswahili. Uwezo ndio ni mdogo lakini je ni mdogo kama ambavyo wanataka tuamini? kama tunauwezo wa kununua vilivyokuwa processed magharibi vya kwetu kwa nini tushindwe?

    pili swala kujenga jamii ya kati (middle class) inahitaji kuamsha uzalishaji wa ndani ya nchi zetu. hili halitatokea tukiendelea kuzalisha kwa masoko ya nje. ambayo unakuta wote kwa wakati mmoja (kutokana na ushawishi wa magharibi) tunazalisha kitu hicho hicho, hivyo kufanya bei kuwa ndogo. Mfano wako kwa maua ya Kenya ni mfano mzuri sana. sasa ni nchi ngapi za africa zinasafirisha maua? na sio hizo tu na nyingine zinazoendelea? mwisho wake ingawa uzalishaji huku kwetu ni nafuu wingi wa bidhaa nafanya bei ziwe kushoto. swali sio kama tunaweza kununua maua ya kenya bali ni je tunahitaji kununua maua ya kenya?

    Unaposema nchi zao hazitegemei tena kilimo, na wakati huo huo unasema makampuni makubwa yanajikita katika kuprocess chakula naona kama unajikanyaga. chakula (iwe ni kulima, kuprocess au reprocessing) bado unakuwa unajishughulisha na bidhaa ya kilimo (Agribusiness). nadhani itabidi tuweke na maana ya neno biashara kilimo ili tuwe sawa. kwa kifupi tu kilimo bado kinachangia kwa kiasi kikubwa sana katika uchumi wa magharibi. Kumbuka kuanzia kulima shambani, makapuni yanayo fanya usindikaji, migahawa, mahoteli, nk. Vyoote vinaingia kaitka Agribusiness. Na ukitaka kupima mchango wa kilimo inabidi uangalia ungoezeko la dhamani huku kote. Kwa hiyo kusema uchumi wa nchi za magharibi hautegemei tena kilimo kama sisi sio ukweli. Tofauti iliopo ni kwamba kwetu ongezeko la dhamani katika kilimo ni ndogo sio umuhimu wake

    Tatu nakubaliana kabisa na wewe kwamba kama wote tunazalisha kahawa inakuwa ngumu kuuziana kahawa. Lakini sio kwa ajili ya umaskini wetu, hapana, bali kwa ajili wote tuna bidhaa inayofanana. Nadhani utakubaliana na mimi hii mifumo ya uchumi tumeridhi toka kwa hao hao wa magharibi. Lakini swali ni Je nilazima tuendelee nayo hata kama haitupi maslahi yoyote au yakutosha? Swala linabaki pale pale kuangali na kukimbilia soko moja la magharibi. Mfano uliotolewa wa wakongo au Uganda kutaka mchele wetu ni mzuri sana. Jiulize kwa nini tusiweke nguvu katika kuzalisha huu mchele na kuuza? Au mpaka tuuze kahawa US na Tokyo ndio biashara? We are too conversional na inaonekana hatutaki kubadili huu mfumo wa kinyonyaji (usiniulize kwa nini maana sina jibu kwa sasa)

    Mwisho kabisa, ninapoongelea bitter pill simaanishi kwamba wanaimeza kwa sasa. Bali ukisoma fresh utaona nasema wao kubadili uwanja uwe flat ni ngumu sana ten asana. We need a middle class. This we agree. But I go further and say WE HAVE TO STOP SEEING DEVELOPED COUNTRIES AS THE ONLY POSSIBLE MARKET FOR OUR PRODUCE. Mnaijeria natumia sana viazi vikuu, magimbi, mihogo n.k. na sisi tuko katika sehemu nzuri kuzalisha kuliko yeye, kwa nini tusiangalie kuzalisha kwa ajili ya hilo soko? Tunaweza kusema hivyo hivyo kwa masoko mengi. Kinachotakiwa lazima tuanzie mahali fulani. Middle class haidondoki toka juu bali inahitaji kufanyiwa kazi kubwa.

    Mimi siamini yametushinda, bali watu wanataka tuamini yametushinda. Ukiangalia Ujazo wa biashara katika haya masoko utakuta kwa kiasi kikubwa unakaribiana na what we export to US, na EU. Kwa hiyo kikubwa hapa ni namna gain ya kuyatumia zaidi haya masoko. Mpaka sasa bado Tanzania tunavutana kurudi au kutokurudi COMESA. Ni jambo la ajabu kabisa. Wafanyabiashara ambazo nyingi zilikuwa katika bidhaa za kilimo kama Unga nk. Wanasema wanalihitaji hili soko, lakini bado tunajivuta sana. Ukiangalia sababu za kujitoa huko zote ni siasa tupu. Hakuna sababu hata moja yakichumi inayoonyesha tumefaidika vipi tangia tutoke COMESA. Ndio maana anayosema Masanja ya siasa za zamani naunga mkono. Maamuzi ya kisiasa yasiyo na backing ya report za kitaalamu katika fani husika hayatatufikisha kokote.

    Sasa hapa ndio penyewe. Swali je wao wamewezaje? Au na wao middle class ilikuwepo siku zote? Au kwa mataifa ya East Asia yanayojulikana kama Big Tigers yamewezaje? Kikubwa ni biahsa kati yao, pamoja na mambo mengine. Kwa sasa zaidi ya asilimia 75 ya export za china malighafi zake zinatengenezwa na nchi jirani. Kwa hiyo kama ni suti, nyusi anasokota Fulani namwuzia mwingine, kifungo nchi nyingine yeye anamalizia. On that way the benefits of value added along various value chains zinafaidhisha watu wengi na hivyo kuinua vipato vyao. Nadhani kwa sisi sehemu nzuri sana ya kujifunza ni huko East Asia maana miaka 30 iliyopita walikuwa kama sisi au chini yetu.

    Kwa sasa ukiondoa ruzuku za magharibi tunazalisha katika garama ndogo sana sana. Mfano garama ya kuzalisha hekta moja ya pamba Tanzania ni dola za marekani 178, wakati kuzalisha the same SA ni US$ 256, India ni US$ 359, na USA kwenyewe ni dola 932. kwa hiyo kama ni kuzalisha kwa garama ndogo, bidhaa zetu nyingi ziko katika medani hio.

    Swala ni hilo la ubora, Hili ni soo, maana wanalitumia kama nyenzo ya kuweka masharti katika masoko yao. Hapa ndipo ambapo tunarudi haswa kwenye Mada ya kwa nini WTO negotiations haziwezi kufanikiwa.

    Nimefurahishwa sana na michango ya watu kwenye hili swala. Msimamo wangu ni kwamba tanahitaji kutengeneza mbadala wa soko la magharibi. Natutaweza kufanya hivyo kwa kuanza kuangalia mahitaji yetu na kuyajeuza yawe bidhaa ambazo tutauziana. Taratibu tatajenga sio soko tu bali pia the famous middle class. Mjadala uendelee
     
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