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Why does the donor community support a corrupt regime?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
    Dec 14, 2009
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    It has always bothered me. Anytime we have a serious debate or discussion in the country on corruption or there is a new scandal erupting you'll hear that a so and so donor country has given Tanzanian government so and so money as aid or grant to do so and so projects.

    I have noticed this for sometime now. It is as if the donor community is trying to insulate the Tanzanian people from the pinch of corruption. It is as if they are trying so hard to fill the vacuum that is created by corruption. Think about it.

    If it is true that between 20-30 percent (depending who is talking) of our annual government budget ends into corrupt public officials pockets how then is the government able to function without the people feeling the loss of this 20-30 percent? If everytime a community needs a clinic, a school, a new road, etc a community get no matter what happened to the public funds how then could a community claim that corruption hurts them when it seems that corruption only occurs on paper only?

    I have now become a suspicious of the motives of the so called "development partners". I think they are the one who have become in fact the enablers of corruption in the country. They have been for so many years now filling the gap created by corruption by providing grants and aids.

    I believe if the donor community were to halt, freeze or in a certain ways restrict their foreign aid the Tanzanian people would finally feel the pain of corruption and they will ultimately link their welfare to the government in power.

    It is for this reason, I believe these few coming weeks and early weeks of 2010 and as a matter of fact the whole coming year will witness record breaking foreign aid pouring into Tanzania to act as political anesthetics of corruption.

    It is a well known fact (at least I demonstrated it in my second part of "understanding a corrupt political system) that one of the beneficiaries of a corrupt culture is the foreign investor then it is only natural for foreign government to poor more aid into the country in order to act as local anesthetics. Others however, would poor more aid to act as general anesthetics on our people.

    If you really want to know how foreign aid in Tanzania fuels corruption just try to be an advocate for its halting!... I bet heaven and earth will fall on you like the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah!

    Don't you agree?
     
  2. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    I agree 100 percent.
     
  3. Nyambala

    Nyambala JF-Expert Member

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    It is bcoz they are also corrupt!
     
  4. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    In the country, how many people use their brains/heads in thinking? Ninashangaa sana kwa sisi kukubali kuwaamini the so called donors. Wale kina Chief Mangungu hawakuwajua lolote wakaingizwa mkenge. Inakuwaje sisi watu wa kizazi hiki bado tunarudia mistakes za kina Chief Mangungu? Tofauti ya kosa la chief Mangungu na haya yanayoendelea leo ni dogo sana! Yeye inasemekana aliuza eneo lake kwa kipande cha shuka na sisi tunauza raslimali zetu kwa uongo wa wawekezaji.Hivi ni kweli waafrika tuko hivyo? Hatujifunzi kutokana na makosa? Hatujifunzi kwamba ili tuendelee lazima tuwe na nia ya dhati yenye kuambatana na vitendo?
     
  5. GY

    GY JF-Expert Member

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    While they hate all other forms of corruption, they want you to have, they like and they always support, a corrupted mind of our African leaders. A damn slave mind!
     
  6. Waberoya

    Waberoya JF-Expert Member

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    Those days they gave us mirrors, Sugar etc...They took jewels in return. Now they are giving us money instead! They are not donors; they are not helping us. They have just twisted our mind and situation to think they are angels.They are taking everything now including our brains!
     
  7. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    MMM

    Sadly hawa jamaa wana-thrive best kwa kuwa karibu na corrupt countries kumbuka;

    • misaada ni kama ulimbo, unawawezesha wao kuwekeza kwa kitoweo cha badae
    • misaada ni namna ya ku-decongest some staffs na kusaidia ajira kwa watu wao
    • Misaada ni exploration
    • Misaada yao ina strings attached na kama nchi haiko corrupt inakuwa vigumu kufunga hizo strings
    • Misaada ina-deresponsibilitize watu na hiyo kuwa kama cocaine kwa nchi maskini, na tunaelewa madhara ya cocaine
    • In actual facts, misaada mingi kwa nchi kama zetu ina negative long term impact has ukizingatia systems zetu haziwi stable kutokana na continuos reviews and ammendments kuwapa wao nafasi ---all these works better with corrupt leaders

    I always ask my self, how can we use the Mengi's, Bakhressa etc kufungua philantropic programs incountry
     
  8. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

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    Wao wanafanya biashara hawezi kuacha kukubaliana nao ili mradi mambo yao yawe shwari .Kuna barrick , kwa mfano hadi mtu anamtemea askari mate , kuna miradi mingi na kampuni nyinyi za wazungu wako TZ na hata kodi hawalipi ila wazungu wana neemeka leo unadhani wataacha kuwapa pesa ?

    Tanzania haitakombolewa na wageni ni sisi wenyewe
     
  9. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    It hurts me to see that we still move in the same vicious circle toka enzi zile za kina Chief Mangungu.Kwenye Movie ya Shaka Zulu Kuna mtu mmoja aliwahi kumuonya Shaka kwamba white guys are dangerous because they work with illusions. Shaka Zulu alikataa wazo lile na hatima yake sote tunaijua.
    Cha ajabu mpaka leo hii tunaendelea kukataa ukweli kuwa white guys are dangerous because of their illusions! Hawa jamaa wanaendelea tu na status quo ileile ya kutudanganya na kuchezea akili zetu, huku tumeshika mikono viganjani tukisubiri miujiza ambayo haionekani. 48 years baada ya Uhuru, misaada imetusaidia nini kutufanya tufanane nao? If we dont want to toil our heads searching for formula to address our problems, misaada haina lolote la kuongeza zaidi ya kutufanya tuendelee kuwa masikini zaidi.
     
  10. Z

    Zhule JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 14, 2009
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    Umesema ukweli mtupu. Hatuna chakula cha kutosha lakini hawatupi mbegu bora wala Zana za kilimo. Lakini ukitaka kufanya research ya kujua ni watoto wangapi wana kwashiokor na inaathiri vipi maendeleo ya jamii na elimu watakupa pesa za research.Vyuo vikuu havina maabara wala karakana hawatusaidii lakini ukitaka kufanya research ya athari za ukosefu wa elimu,technologia na ajira watakupa pesa. Matatizo yetu tunayaelewa wangekuwa wanasaidia namna ya kuyatatua. Lakini hakuna wapo kwa ajili ya biashara na kuexploit. As per my understanding (layman) there should be two types of investment :One is specifically focused on the extraction of natural resources. Two investment for real growth such as establishment of local factories to produce for the local market. If their aid were meant to pull us out of this miserable life then they would have concentrated on the second one.This would creat jobs, revenue, and even boost our technology because there will be many inservice training. But no. They just want to creat jobs in their countries and selling at higher prices for poor african. Africa has Oil, gas, minerals, water why dont they produce energy here so that they can process minerals?.
    Our gevernment dont thing of self reliance even for the neccessities.Yaani wako proud na mambo yasiyo na tija kwa mfano kusamehewa madeni(mkapa) na kupewa misaada(kikwete).Hawachoki kutembeza bakuli la misaada.
    l
     
  11. M

    Magezi JF-Expert Member

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    Kimsingi ukitegemea misaada lazima ufe maskini tu. Wewe angalia hata scholarships zinazotolewa kwa wingi utakuta ni za masomo ya social science, na hii ni kwa sababu hawawezi kukusomesha ktk engineering au technologia yoyote kwani hiyo ndo msingi wa nchi kuendelea.

    Serikali inatakiwa ikae na iweke miakakati yake ili baada ya miaka 20 ijayo nchi ijitegemee kwa chakula na huduma zingine.
     
  12. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 14, 2009
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    Friends,

    International relations is all about strategic national interests.

    Western countries have been very fair to us kwa maana kwamba wametwambia kabisa aid, is part of their national strategic weapon. So if it is in their interests to keep corrupt regime, why not? Tuna masikio hatusikii, tuna macho hatuoni...duh... Jiulizeni......

    Democracy is good and very good. But not if it wants to deal with Corrupt and despotic regimes in Egypt or Saudi ARABIA.

    Human rights values are important and universal as long as they dont apply to people in Gaza under Israel occupation.

    Rigging election is bad for democracy only if it applies to Ahmednejad and Mugabe. But its not important if it applies to Afghanistan and Karzai.

    Jamani you cn go on and on..bottomline is: Africa we need second liberation and this is: liberation in the way we think.

    Mmeshawahi kujiuliza? siku hizi kila nchi/mtu mwenye pesa anakuja na "plan for Africa" mfano..utasikia..Blair Commission, G8 Plan for Africa, US engagement strategy for Africa, Japan programe for Africa, China Summit for Africa, Korea Summit, Brazil Summit, Turkey Summit and on and on..hivi mmeshawahi kujiuliza..hizi summit na plan zinaishia wapi? Mfano ile ya Blair ilifia wapi? Na bila aibu viongozi wetu kila siku wako kwenye ndege kuhudhuria hizi Summit.

    Wakuu..at times ukifikiria kwa undani waafrika tunavyokuwa treated..unaoni ni humiliation tuu kila mahali!

    Leo hata Interns wa ulaya wanatumwa Afrika kama Experts..folks its so sad na sijui kipi kianze kipi kifuate. Leo mzungu akisema alikaa Afrika huko Lokole Ngara kama camp manager wa kambi ya wakimbizi..its enough to Land him a job in the European Commission in Brussels kama Development expert wa Sub Saharan AFRICA!

    Hapo ndo tumefika and people seem to be nowhere to get whats going on!

    What I have come to believe: Hakuna nchi ya dunia ya tatu ambayo inaweza kuwasikiliza western countries..ikajikomboa katika uchumi. China ni mfano mmoja. Ten years ago..Madeleine Albright..alikuwa anamfokea China kuhusu Human Rights kama mtoto mdogo..Leo hii Obama akienda Beijing hata kuongelea neno human rights..hawezi. And gues what? China is matching!


    Masanja,
     
  13. bona

    bona JF-Expert Member

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    hakuna msaada mkuu, iyo ni nipe nikupe, kuna unyonyaji mpya wa karne ya 21 unaitwa ''recycle'' iyo misaada ni mtaji, kwa mfano wanaouita msaada wa pesa lakini jinsi ya kuutumia inajiri tuajiri wataalam kutoka kwao wakushauri jinsi ya kutumia ''consultant'' na ma expart wa uo mradi pia as result 30% inarudi kwao kwa kulipa ma expert na consultation fee.
    kwa mfano tuwaambie japan msilete magari na vifaa vya electronics tunaagiza china muone kama shule za kata zitajengwa, msaada wa japan kwa tanzania ni less than 1% ya net profit japan wanayopata kwa kuuza magari pekee nchini ukitoa faida kwa ayo makampuni ya magari.
    kwa mchezo uo uwaambie japan tanzania ni corrupt country watakuelewa? its business, they are good partners, the so called donors knows this corruption is there ila hawapigi kelele kwa sababu interest za nchi zao zinakua hazijaguswa.
    kwani mobutu sese seko pamoja na ukatili wake wa kuua watu, udikteka, rushwa aliienjoy support ya west throughtout his life, hakukuwa na report hata moja ya kuvunjwa kwa haki za binadamu, kwa nini? congolese uranium,gold, diamond etc were available for western countries in abundant.
     
  14. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    The reason for dependence in aid can be one, They used as an escape goat for their borrowings in the World Bank, IMF and IFC wakipata misamaha ya madeni. Second if they gives an aid and we continue to be dependent and helpless hivyo basi tutakuwa tunapigana wenyewe kwa wenyewe mwisho wa siku hatuzalishi kitu tunaenda kukopa WB na IMF ambao wanatugonga na interest rates ambazo zinawafaidisha wao na familia zao tu. Tatu hatukai tukajiuliza kwanini pesa za ufisadi ni ngumu kurejeshwa Africa. Hiyo ni kwasababa hizo pesa zilizowekwa ndani ya mabenki zinatumika kuendesha mabenki yao. Akina tuvijisenti wanawapatia pesa ABN, Barclays, UBS ambao wao wanazitumia kuzalisha na kuipatia faida benki, kulipia tax nchini mwao na kuendesha uchumi wao.

    Niliwahi kuona siku moja katika FT wanasema akina tuvitusenti pesa walizoziweka katika offshore accounts zinaweza kuondoa kabisa tatizo la recession dunia nzima. Sasa tunakaa kujiuliza kweli why hawa jamaa wanatupa misaada nadhani jibu mnalo waungwana!!!!
     
  15. A

    August JF-Expert Member

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    Hata hii 6bn kwa ajili ya kukabiliana na athari yza kimazingira utaona ni kwa faida ya makampuni yao nddio yatazitumia hizo fedha , kwa kuja kuwekeza au kufanyia research kwa nchi zinazoendelea.
    na hata ukiangalia suala la Radar, walijua kuwa sio kitu muhimu au kina faa kwetu sisi lakini Blair akahalalisha kwa sababu kuna watu 200 kule BAE system wataendelea na kazi na kodi juu, huyo mjinga mwaafrika mwache akafie mbali
     
  16. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    There is always a hidden agenda associated with any aid given to us...But my take is that, trying to stop those bloody aids will add pepper to the soar...and it will be like caning a corps!... ..huh!
     
  17. E

    Emma M. JF-Expert Member

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    All regimes are corrupt.
     
  18. Tatu

    Tatu JF-Expert Member

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    They get the "PIECE of PIE" too. Remember, it is politicians who approve those funds in their home countries. The chain reaction is endless.
     
  19. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    i couldn't agree with you more
     
  20. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    Mh, hawa wajamaa si wapumbavu at all, the UK governemnt decided to free the Lockerby bomber for example purely so that BP can benefit. Utaona it doesnt make sense ukiangalia jujuu. But if BP can make a profit of an extra billion, around four hundered milion goes to the tax man.

    Therefore if corrupt helps create dodgy deals na kampuni husika zipo based, kwenye hizo nchi ambazo ni so called donors, expect a quick way to shut us up. Elewa madini wanayonunua kwa bei ya kutupa kwetu, wanauza kwa bei haramu kwao. Since kampuni hizi nyingi zipo registered kwenye hizo nchi their governments rip the benefit of profits through taxes. Hivyo lazima wazime moto utakao wakosesha Tax revenue unlike us kwao the motto is every little helps.
     
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