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Who gets a better deal in doing business in TZ?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Feb 8, 2010.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
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    I'm trying to write some arguments on Dual citizenship as it has been promoted recently. If two people with two different companies doing similar businesses want to invest in Tanzania who will get better deal, his/her profit protected and assured of holding most of his income and profit.

    A. Tanzanian or Foreigner (non Tanzanian)?
    B: A Tanzanian who has adopted citizenship of another country?

    Would the legalizing of dual citizenship change the current status quo in this regard?

    I'm asking this question because one of the argument for dual citizenship is the so called economic opportunities/benefits that will be created which will make Tanzanians who have dual citizenship to invest in Tanzania and therefore contribute heavily in the economic outlook of the country. This argument presume that Tanzanians who still hold their citizenship do not invest in Tanzania or those who have adopted citizenship of another country are unable to invest in Tanzania simply because they are no longer Tanzanians.
     
  2. Oxlade-Chamberlain

    Oxlade-Chamberlain JF-Expert Member

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    a foreigner. the dual citizenship will not make much different.
     
  3. tgeofrey

    tgeofrey JF-Expert Member

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    always the strenger ou brain is to poor to know what worth even mrahaba wa 0.000001% to a zellion dollars worth us
     
  4. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    Hii Dual Citiznship will only safeguard strong sense of nationalism ili Watanzania who have made it na kupata uraia wa nchi nyingine, wanaendelea kuwa Watanzania hivyo watakuwa huru kuja kuwekeza nyumbani hata kushiriki kwenye leadership process wakati hali ilivyo sasa, ukipata uraia wa nchi nyingine, unahesabika umeukana utanzania wako automatically.

    Mathalan Mzee Mwanakijiji, baada ya kukaa US muda mrefu, you qualify kupata uraia wa huko hivyo kuenjoy privilges zote za raia wa nchi husika lakini hauombi ili kuulinda Utanzania wako usiupoteze. With dual cit. utalamba Umarekani huku umeretain Utanzania wako, yaani huku wapata na kule wapata. Kwa mtazamo huu, utajiri wako na vitegauchumi vyako utavielekeza Tanzania under the sense of nationalism tuu na sio for economic benefit.

    Wafaidika wakuu wa hii dual citizenship, ni wale Watanzania wenye sense of investment, wametaka kufanya biashara nchini wakashindwa kwa kukosa mitaji, wakaamua kuikimbia nchi ili kupata mitaji na baada ya kuipata hiyo mitaji, sasa ndio wanarudi home kuwekeza bila kupoteza Utanzania wao. Kwenye kundi hili, pia wamo wale waliokimbia nchi just for search of gree pasture, wakajikuta wamezalisha surplus ambayo ndio watairudisha nyumbani Tanzania.

    Otherwise, when it comes to who gets a better deal kati a foreigner na Mtanzania, its always the foreigner anaeruhusiwa kuja kuchuma na kuhamishia faida kwao. Faida kwa taifa is more or less the same kwavile serious investors wengi ni foreigners kuliko hao Watanzania.

    Hii dual citizenship, ingeleta faida kubwa kwa taifa iwapo ni Watanzania ndio tungekuwa major investors kwenye nchi yetu, hivyo faida yote ya investment, ingekuwa retained nchini, lakini Watanzania wengi ni wale wenzangu na mimi, waganga njaa, hii dual citizenship is nothing more, nothing less.
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #5
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    Ni kitu gani kinanizuia sasa hivi mimi kuwekeza Tanzania kwani hata kuwekeza Marekani na kufanikiwa huitaji kuwa raia wa Marekani!

    Kwanini msisitizo wa uwekezaji uwe kwa hawa Watanzania wenye uraia wa nchi mbili badala ya kuweka mazingira ya kuwanufaisha Watanzania ambao hawawezi kupata uraia wa nchi nyingine kwa sababu wako nyumbani?


    Ni kitu gani kitamfanya Mtanzania mwenye uraia wa Marekani kwa mfano kuhakikisha faida inabakia Tanzania badala ya kuipeleka Marekani ambako anaweza kupata mambo mengi na bora zaidi kutokana na faida hiyo ambako nayo ni nchi yake?

    Kwa mfano Mtanzania mwenye Uraia wa Rwanda na anafanya biashara Tanzania na kuwekeza Tanzania lakini utii wake zaidi ni kwa Rwanda kwanini tufikirie uraia wa nchi mbili utamnufaisha yeye zaidi? Au Mtanzania mwenye uraia wa Kenya au Uganda?
     
  6. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    . Hakuna kinachokuzuia kuwekeza Marekani, walengwa hawa wenzangu na mimi wenye uchumi wa kijungu jiko, hawana uwezo wa kuwekeza Marekani, hivyo vijisenti vyao haviwezi kufanya lolote huko hivyo strong Sense ya nationalism itawatuma kuja kuwekeza nyumbani na kuenjoy privilages za Utanzania.
    . Uchumi wa taifa ni duni, hana uwezekano wa kupata mitaji ya maana, ndio maana watu wameikimbia nchi kutafuta maslahi bora, baada ya kuyapata na mitaji juu yake, wanarudi home.
    Just for the sense of nationalism.
    The same, just for the sense of nationalism nothing more, nothing less.
     
  7. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #7
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    Kama hawa watu hawana utajiri wa kuwekeza Marekani kwa vile wana uchumi wa "kijungu jiko" unafikiri hali zao za kiuchumi ni kubwa zaidi kulinganisha na za Watanzania walioko nyumbani na biashara zao mbalimbali? Kwanini unafikiri "strong sense of nationalism" itawatuma kuwekeza nyumbani, kwanini sasa hivi nini kinawazuia?

    Nationalism haihusiani na uraia hata kidogo; mtu anaweza kuwa nationalist kwa nchi yake ya asili bila kuwa raia wa nchi hiyo.


    Kama hilo ni kweli haitaji kuwapa dual citizenship tunaweza kuweka tu kwenye sheria ya uwekezaji kwamba wale wawekezaji wenye asili ya Tanzania wanapewa upendeleo wa aina fulani..

    Lakini tayari tumeweka mazingira ya kuwekeza kwa wageni bila kulazimisha kuwa ni raia wa TAnzania. Sijui hawa wawekezaji wa kimataifa wanaowekeza Tanzania sasa hivi wanaongozwa na nationalism gani kwa Taifa letu? Unafikiri watu wa Barrick na wenzao wana uzalendo sana?
     
  8. m

    mapambano JF-Expert Member

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    Passport control imewashinda, mtanzani kupata passport ni haki yake lakini passport zinatolewa kinyemela ..sasa hili la dual citizen sijui!
     
  9. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanakijiji,

    Naomba na wewe usiingine kwenye mtego wa kupinga Dual Cit kwa sababu za kiuchumi peke yake.!!

    Argument ya Dual Cit kwa sababu za kiuchumi ni dhaifu. Hoja hiyo ni dhaifu kwa sababu Watanzania hata wale wenye uraia wa UK/USA etc wanawekeza Tanzania bila kujali uraia walio nao. Sasa kusema kwamba ukiwaruhusu kuwa na Dual Cit ndio watawekeza zaidi, sidhani kama kuna ushahidi wa kutosha kuthibisha kuwa hilo litatokea. Wadau wametumia mifano ya fedha za nje zinazoingia Kenya; ni wazi kabisa kuwa sababu inayofanya Tanzania kusiwe na hesabu kamili za kimfumo zaidi kuliko uraia.


    Hoja pekee yenye mashiko kwa kila kona ni kuhusu Watanzania wa kuzaliwa Tanzania au waliorithi Utanzania ambao baadaye walichukua uraia wa nchi zingine kwa sababu yoyote ile ni MUHIMU waruhusiwe kubakia na Uraia wa Utanzania.

    Ni lazima tuweke PRINCIPAL kwamba iwapo una damu ya Tanzania popote ulipo wewe utabakia kuwa Mtanzania na kwamba siku yoyote ukiamua kurudi nyumbani unaruhusiwa kuingia bila kipingamizi cha aina yoyote.

    Hiyo hoja haitakiwi kufungamana na hoja nyingine yoyote nyepesi kama uwekezaji, upatikanaji wa kazi au masomo ugenini n.k.

    Kwa kumalizia; nakaribisha kwa mikono miwili sheria ya Uraia wa Nchi 2 itakayowaruhusu Watanzania kuchukua uraia wa nchi nyingine bila kupoteza Utanzania.

    YY
     
  10. Regia Mtema

    Regia Mtema R I P

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    The answer is obvious a non Tanzanian. Hii haina ubishi.
     
  11. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu, kauli kama hizi ni za kufikirika sidhani kama zina ushahidi.
     
  12. Masikini_Jeuri

    Masikini_Jeuri JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzani ni nchi pekee amabapo mgeni huja na matambara; yaani masikini na kutumia rasilima zetu wenyewe akainunua nafasi ya kujitengenezea maslahi na kutaijrikia mikononi mwetu wenyewe!

    A foreigner will alwayz get a better deal! labda mbingu zishuke nasi tubadilike na kujithamini sisi kwa sisi!
     
  13. K

    Kicheruka JF-Expert Member

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    Dual citizenship haitakuwa na mafanikio yeyote ya kiuchumi kwa Tanzania, Watanzania wenyewe waliopo nchni na nje ya nchi bado wanakabiliana na changamoto za urasimu na mazingira mabovu ya uwekezaji kama itakavyokuwa kwa mweye dual citizen.
     
  14. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

    #14
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    Mzee Mwanakijiji, sio kila mwekezaji ni mfanya biashara, wawekezaji wa uchumi wa kijungu jiko, watawekeza where they belong, ndio maana ukifika Mashi, migombani utakutana na ma 'white elephants' ya mahekalu ya Wachagga ambao huenda only once in a year 'kuhiji', lakini kwa vile kwao is where they belong, they can do the best they can. Mtanzania aliyeko Canada, amepata uraia wa Canada, yeye na familia yake anakuja Tanzania as a foreigner, anakuwa amepoteza haki zake zote za Utanzania ukiwemo kumiliki ardhi, kushiriki siasa, pamoja na nguvu zake za kiuchumi, anaishia kuwa mtazamaji tuu, not a player, ameloose ile 'sense of belonging', atawekeza where he belongs na ndipo dual citizenship itakapomkomboa.
    . Watu wa type ya kina Che Guavera waliopo ni wachache, wengi they put their trust on where they belong. Nimekaa kidogo UK nA US NA Canada, in my opinion, Watanzania waliopata uraia huko, they are happy superficially kuenjoy uraia wa huko walipo baada ya kufanikiwa, but deep down their hearts, wanaumia kuupoteza Utanzania wao, hivyo they are unhappy on point of true sense of nationalism, hii dual citizenship will restore them to fully true happiness, hata kama hawana mpango tena wa kurudi Tanzania au hata kuwekeza.
    Nakubaliana na wewe, sheria zetu haziruhusu wageni kumiliki ardhi, TIC inaruhusu, tumebinafshisha viwanda vyetu na ardhi zake asilimia 100% kwa wageni. Majumba ya Kariakoo karibu yote sasa yameangukia kwa wageni wenye pesa. Tungeweza kuweka sheria kama za UAE, hakuna mgeni kumiliki ardhi, ardhi yote ni ya Waarabu, ili mgeni umiliki, lazima uwe na ubia na Mwarabu. Nasi tungeweza kufanya hivyo but no, tunauza kila kitu, infact kuna maeneo tumetoa kama bure kabisa.
    .
    Hawa wawekezaji wanaokuja kuwekeza Tanzania, hawaji for nationalism interest, wanakuja just to reap and go!. Hebu imagine TIC imewapa Tax Holiday ya miaka 5, wengine kama iliyokuwa Sheraton, baada ya miaka ile 5, imechange hands kwa Royal Palm na miaka yake mitano ya tax holiday, sasa ni Moven Pick another 5 years!.
    Migodini ndio usiseme, wameleta bulk extraction equipments baada ya miaka 5, the deposit is totaly exhausted, nothing left, kama Resolute Gold pale Buhemba!. Hawa wanakuja kuchuma na kuondoka kwa sababu Watanzania, hatuwezi!.
     
  15. Ninja

    Ninja Senior Member

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    Mfano mdogo tu, kama wewe ni Consultant na umepata pato kutoka Tanzania( Income Derived from Tanzania), kama ni mkazi kikodi(Resident for tax purposes) utalipia 5% kama kodi. Kama si mkazi utalipia 15%. Kuwa na uraia kunakupa unafuu wa kuishi nchini(No need for work permit) kwa hiyo unaweza kuishi kwa kipindi cha kutosha kuweza kufaidi unafuu wa kodi na pia kuepuka gharama za uhamiaji. Wakati huo huo uraia wako kwenye nchi nyingine labda Japan kwa mfano, unakupa unafuu wa kodi kule Japan na unarejeshewa kodi uliyokatwa kwenye pato lako Tanzania.

    Kwa hiyo unakuwa na uamuzi wa biashara gani uifanyie Japan na ipi uifanyie Tanzania kwa kutazama gharama za kibiashara za sehemu zote mbili, unafuu wa kodi, upatikanaji wa masoko na malighafi. DUAL CITIZENSHIP NI NZURI KIBIASHARA.

    Huu ni mfano mmoja tu ndugu zangu.
     
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