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What to learn from Tunisia and Egypt? A RESPONSE FROM KITILA'S COMMENTS.

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by BULLDOZZER, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. BULLDOZZER

    BULLDOZZER Senior Member

    #1
    Feb 12, 2011
    Joined: Jan 18, 2011
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    Kitila Mkumbo;1612977]For me:


    This revolution was leaderless! When wananchi decide that enough is enough, there is no power of oppression or coercion that can defeat them.
    1. During the great time of a nation's self determination and revolution such as that we have seen in Egypt, it is neither the NGOs nor the political parties that are at forefront, it is the people. People themselves become the leader and the lead.
    2. It is not possible in the contemporary world that you can cling to power undemocratically. Democracy is the only way. Yes, African leaders will fake and manipulate the people, but this will never continue for ever. They have no option but to truly democratize their countries or else they will face a shameful defeat by the people. In today's world, you only lead so long as you have the public confidence and support.
    3. Every struggle requires some sections of people to sacrifice, as Steve Biko once said: there is no struggle without casualties. This revolution has taken a 30 year old Wael Ghonim, to lie to his employer, the Google, that he was returning home in Egypt for what he called ' a personal problem'. He left his lucrative career to return home to join the unemployed and downtrodden youth to oust a dictator.
    I salute Wael Ghonim, I salute the people of Egypt[/QUOTE]

    From Bulldozzer to Kitila,

    The good thing I have learn from you is that you believe that there is no change until blood has been shade. To some extent is true but one thing just to ask you; Have you ever participated in any demonstration so far conducted in our country whether legal or illegal. Have you?

    Honestly speaking there is a little difference from what has happened in Tunisia or Egypt in regard to our Country - Tanzania.

    1.0 The ideology behind this demonstration is to see those countries which preaches "Democracy" are the ones which supports these dictatorship leaders of Tunisia, Egypt, Pakistan, Uganda and the like. They normally call them "our close allies (friends)".
    And you find citizens of those countries have no right to express their opinions. And that is why they try to find means of expressing their ideas including burning themselves.

    2.0 Think what happen when palestine did democratic election and "Hamas came to power? wasn't that people decision? What is happening now at the ground?. Who is there to help them? Are they not human being??? Don't they have a right to freedom??

    3.0 This scenario is totally quite different from our country where we have a democratic system of changing our leaders peacefully. Yes there might be some descrepancies in ballout counted due to demographic location and infrastructure but yet still we get our leaders. What remains is improvement of how fast we can systematically get results early. Uganda in this have paved the way in coming election although its genuinty is still questioned. We can send some experts to learn from there.

    4.0 We are in a position of telling our leaders on corruption issues any time this becomes known but unfortunately the influency of some religious groups hampers the efforts of holding these corrupt leaders accountable.
    And this is the main reasons why we are where we are!

    So let Tunisia and Egypt learn from us and make some small ammendments. They will be far away from us in Democracy.
     
  2. kagumyamuheto

    kagumyamuheto JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
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    bull,
    Are you trying to say that we are far better than egyptian in democracy?
     
  3. M

    Masauni JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Aug 15, 2010
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    From Bulldozzer to Kitila,

    The good thing I have learn from you is that you believe that there is no change until blood has been shade. To some extent is true but one thing just to ask you; Have you ever participated in any demonstration so far conducted in our country whether legal or illegal. Have you?

    Honestly speaking there is a little difference from what has happened in Tunisia or Egypt in regard to our Country - Tanzania.

    1.0 The ideology behind this demonstration is to see those countries which preaches "Democracy" are the ones which supports these dictatorship leaders of Tunisia, Egypt, Pakistan, Uganda and the like. They normally call them "our close allies (friends)".
    And you find citizens of those countries have no right to express their opinions. And that is why they try to find means of expressing their ideas including burning themselves.

    2.0 Think what happen when palestine did democratic election and "Hamas came to power? wasn't that people decision? What is happening now at the ground?. Who is there to help them? Are they not human being??? Don't they have a right to freedom??

    3.0 This scenario is totally quite different from our country where we have a democratic system of changing our leaders peacefully. Yes there might be some descrepancies in ballout counted due to demographic location and infrastructure but yet still we get our leaders. What remains is improvement of how fast we can systematically get results early. Uganda in this have paved the way in coming election although its genuinty is still questioned. We can send some experts to learn from there.

    4.0 We are in a position of telling our leaders on corruption issues any time this becomes known but unfortunately the influency of some religious groups hampers the efforts of holding these corrupt leaders accountable.
    And this is the main reasons why we are where we are!

    So let Tunisia and Egypt learn from us and make some small ammendments. They will be far away from us in Democracy.[/QUOTE]
    NONSENSE
     
  4. Nyangomboli

    Nyangomboli JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Nov 24, 2010
    Messages: 1,658
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    From Bulldozzer to Kitila,

    The good thing I have learn from you is that you believe that there is no change until blood has been shade. To some extent is true but one thing just to ask you; Have you ever participated in any demonstration so far conducted in our country whether legal or illegal. Have you?

    Honestly speaking there is a little difference from what has happened in Tunisia or Egypt in regard to our Country - Tanzania.

    1.0 The ideology behind this demonstration is to see those countries which preaches "Democracy" are the ones which supports these dictatorship leaders of Tunisia, Egypt, Pakistan, Uganda and the like. They normally call them "our close allies (friends)".
    And you find citizens of those countries have no right to express their opinions. And that is why they try to find means of expressing their ideas including burning themselves.

    2.0 Think what happen when palestine did democratic election and "Hamas came to power? wasn't that people decision? What is happening now at the ground?. Who is there to help them? Are they not human being??? Don't they have a right to freedom??

    3.0 This scenario is totally quite different from our country where we have a democratic system of changing our leaders peacefully. Yes there might be some descrepancies in ballout counted due to demographic location and infrastructure but yet still we get our leaders. What remains is improvement of how fast we can systematically get results early. Uganda in this have paved the way in coming election although its genuinty is still questioned. We can send some experts to learn from there.

    4.0 We are in a position of telling our leaders on corruption issues any time this becomes known but unfortunately the influency of some religious groups hampers the efforts of holding these corrupt leaders accountable.
    And this is the main reasons why we are where we are!

    So let Tunisia and Egypt learn from us and make some small ammendments. They will be far away from us in Democracy.[/QUOTE]

    Mkumbo is right and you look like you dont understand what you realy want to say.
     
  5. Ozzie

    Ozzie JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
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    Bulldozer, next time never argue an intelligent person otherwise everyone will see you naked like here. You are entitled for manual work and not to think from the brain, as your name suggest.
     
  6. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Aug 28, 2010
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    mwanachama wa TUCTA
     
  7. T

    Tom JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: May 14, 2007
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    Mimi naona TZ sawa na Egypt ilivyokua, badala ya mtu binafsi hayo mataifa yanayoisadia TZ: They normally call political parties like CCM, "our close allies (friends)". CCM wanaendeleza siasa za ufisadi na ubabe zisizojali kuondoa kero za raia na wamejiundia genge lao, NEC ya CCM ambalo haliwajibiki kutuletea raisi anayewajibika kwa watu ama taifa, bali anayelinda maslahi ya CHAMA na matumbo yao.

    Hayo mataifa makubwa yanakua na ''close allies'' kwa kua wanataka kulinda maslahi ya nchi zao na ufanisi wa utawala wao kwao - maslahi yao ni mbele kuliko ya hayo mataifa wanayotaka yafuate demokrasia yao. Kama tutafuata tu kile wasemacho bila kuangalia faida kwa watu wetu sasa huo ndio ujuha wetu. CCM wanakua ktk mkumbo huo. Kimsingi demokrasia inakua na maana pale tu inapoleta amani, ajira, uzalishaji na kuondoa kero zingine za raia. Amani pekee haitoshi. Demokrasia ya TZ imeshindwa kuondoa kero za raia ikiwa na maana kua ina walakini na hapo ndio wazo la kutaka KATIBA mpya linapoingia.

    Kama Egypt: Demokrasia yetu isipoboreshwa na tutegemee revolution kupitia maandamano maana ndio njia muafaka ya sisi raia kusema ili tusikike.
     
  8. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
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    Kwanza ni rahisi sana kuwanunua watanzania. Sh 10,000 inanunua uamuzi wa mtu. Watanzania wengi sana hawajui ni jinsi gani serikali ilivyokikwazo kwa maendeleo yao kutokana na kuwa na maofisa mafisadi na kutowajali. Matumzi ya simu, internet na mawasilano kwa ujumla, na level ya elimu na mwamko wa kisiasa na uelewa wa wananchi wa Misri viko juu sana kuliko Tanzania. Ndio maana yale yanayotokea Misri hayawezi kutokea Tanzania.

    Sehemu kubwa ya watanzania bado ni wajinga, na CCM inatumia udhaifu wa watanzania kwenye elimu, uchumi ,mawasiiano na ufahamu, kuwarubuni, kuwadhibiti na kuwatawala.

    Mabadiliko Tanzania yanaweza kuletwa na wachache wenye elimu, uelewa na uchungu na Tanzania, otherwise hakuna kitu.
     
  9. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
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    Tanzania ina a democratic system?
    Wizi wa kura unaita "some descrepancies "?
    unasingizia infastructure katika uchakachuaji?
    kweli wewe nanga...
     
  10. YeshuaHaMelech

    YeshuaHaMelech JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Oct 12, 2010
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    practice makes perfect! You get zero for this.
    Try again!
     
  11. T

    Topical JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Feb 13, 2011
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    Mwalimu mbaya wewe yaani unabani max hivyo
     
  12. U

    Uwezo Tunao JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Feb 13, 2011
    Joined: Nov 14, 2010
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    LAITI NINGALIKUA RAIS KIKWETE NISINGEKAA HATA ZAIDI YA LISAA MOJA
    BAADA YA RIPOTI YA JUMUIYA YA NCHI ZA ULAYA KUWEKA WAZI
    KWAMBA NIKO MADARAKANI KIMABAVU KWA WIZI KURA:


    Kwa kweli wananchi inabidi tufike mahala tujiulize kwamba hizi nafasi za kuchaguliwa mtu, kwa mantiki kabisa kidemokrasia, ni (a) nafasi za AJIRA BINAFSI KWA YEYOTE ANAYEJIMEGEA KAKIPANDE au (b) ni fursa tu yenye dhamana kubwa na ridhaa ya wananchi ukawatumikie??

    Kama jibu sahihi ni bee hapo juu sasa iweje mtu uwe umeuchubua tu ofisini hata baada ya RIPOTI YENYE UJUMBE NZITO NA NYETI kama ule uliowashilishwa na Jumuia ya Nchi za Ulaya?? Na unapoendelea tu kujing'ang'aniza hivo hivo wapiga kura wapende wasipende, ilmradi tu kuna wazo liliwahi kutoka kwamba rais huongoza kwa awamu mbili, ndio tuseme kwamba uso wa aibu ulishakutoka siku nyingi au ndio kusema kwamba nawe unajaribu kuwapima Wa-Tanzania kwamba watakufanya kitu gani sio??

    Laiti ningalikua rais Kikwete wala nisingejiruhusu nafsi yangu kuendelea kukaa hata kwa lisaa moja zaidi tangu Jumuiya ya Nchi Ulaya itoe ripoti yake inayobaini wazi madai yetu ya muda mrefu kwamba CCM IMEIBA SANA KURA KOTE TANZANIA BARA NA VISIWANI; katika ngazi zote za uchaguzi.

    Nasema hivyo kwa sababu kwa binadamu ambaye bado angependa kujitunzia heshima yako hauwezi kuendelea tu kuchapa usingizi huko kwenye ikulu ya watu kana kwamba hakuna chochote kibaya kilichotokea wakati tayari ni kwamba hauko madarakani kwa ridhaa wananchi. Cha zaidi, hao wenzetu waliotoa ripoti yao pindi wanapoendelea kukuona madarakani wanashindwa tu kukuambia kwamba KWA NINI UGEUZE NAFASI ZA UTUMISHI KWA UMMA KUWA AJIRA BINAFSI kwako kama alivyofanya Mubara??

    Pengine ndio maana Marais walipokutana Africa Union na kuhoji kwa nini watu waondolewe madarakani kwa njia ya maandamano zaidi badala ya kwa njia ya SANDUKU LA KURA, nikasoma habari kwenye internet inayowakejeli marais hawa ile mbaya juu ya madai yao hayo. Mwandishi huyo alikua akisema kwamba katika mataifa mengi sana wananchi hawajawahi kuchagua viongozi wa kuwaongoza kwa zaidi ya miaka ishirini au salasini huko.

    Kwa kuangalia kwa haraka haraka kauli hii mtu utadhani ni upuuzi mtupu tu ndio unaoongelewa hapa lakini ukizama zaidi kwenye kufiki utakuta kwamba kuna ukweli mzito mno nyuma ya hayo madai ya mwandishi huyo. Kwa mfano, itakua vipi mtu aliyeshinda kwa kishindo kama Hosni Mubarak (Asilimia 93 % kwenye uchaguzi wa mara ya mwisho) aliyekataliwa tu na Wa-Misri kiduchu asilimia 7 % akafikia mahala akatimuliwa na 'Nguvu ya Umma' madarakani hata kabla ya kufikia nusu ya awamu yake hiyo nyingine??

    Na tukirudi hapa nyumbani ni lazima tukajiuliza kwamba mbali huu wizi wa kura wa hivi majuzi wazi wazi kabisa kwa Rais Kikwete, je huko mwaka wa 2005 pamoja na ushindi kwake hivi ni kweli huyu ndugu KWELI KABISA alipata huo ushindi wa kishindo kwa asilimia hiyo hiyo 87 % au ndio haya haya tulioyaona mwaka jana??

    Kwa kweli ni kero, chukizo na udhia wa kila aina ambayo ni sharti lisawazishwe haraka mno ili heshima ya mwananchi KUJICHAGULIA KIONGOZI anayependezwa naye iweze kurejae nchini.
     
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