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What the World Got Wrong in Côte D'Ivoire

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by RayB, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. RayB

    RayB JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 2, 2011
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    Hi Guys,

    Find out the true reality on the Ivorian crisis. Thabo Mbeki knows very well about the ins- and-outs of this conflict, as he served as one of the mediators and travelled to the Ivory on many occasions.

    Many african people do not really dig deep to find out underlying issues of conflicts nowadays in africa, which are motivated by imperialistic and neocolonialistic reasons. The ultimate aims are to milk out the mineral resources, after having helped to put in power, forcefully, a puppet that can serve their interests.

    France's president during the world war said: "countries do not have friends, but interests".
    It is shocking that african intellectuals allow themselves to be intoxicated by western media, which enlightened african intellectuals have grown to know as "medialies" or "misinforming media", such as CNN, BBC, FRANCE24, TF1, REUTERS. Check out their news about africa. Those news always have an orientation in accordance with their interests. But it is difficult for africans to understand that, even intellectuals, well educated taught and bred academically in the best universities. No wonder the west still continues to treat african leaders and their people as slaves, but this time economically and politically.

    Mind you, africans were sold for more than 400 years like little biscuits or sweets, just like the worthless and cheapest item on the shelf, and treated in the most inhumane ways, less than animals.

    However, today, many centuries after that trade, the west has come back to africa, this time not with mirrors and powder to buy slaves, but with a new form of slavery: imperialism and neocolonialism. Lybia and Ivory Coast are vivid examples.
    Yet african intellectuals do not have the required curiosity to even investigate every conflict occuring on our continent so as to dig deep and find out the real underlying causes.

    Instead, they will sing the same chorus as the "medialies". I feel really sorry for africa. That attitude from its children is the fuel that gives more power and strength to its oppressors.

    Any time the west portray an african leader as an "angel", we should be wise enough to unravel the hidden suspicion behind that appreciation. On the other hand, when the west starts portraying an african leader as a "demon", it is surely not for the reasons they advocate through their media. The west's (mainly USA, UK and France) template of action is always the same: the media will present an insubordinate african leader as a dictator, a killer, a genocider, to the whole world to prepare the mind of ordinary people and their public opinion in agreeing with the justification of the next political, diplomatic and especially military move. As a matter of fact, the lies will be so intense that it is the public, including some africans, that will even press for action. Then action will be taken to remove him using the United Nations poliitcal, diplomatic and military channels.

    The western media are on a mission: protecting their interests at all cost, especially in a world where emerging nations such as China, India, Brazil, Indonesia etc, are competing with them economically on the global market, and in africa for the mineral resources.

    Any time there is a conflict anywhere in africa, let us not rely and be intoxicated by the western media, but let us investigate independenlty. That is the only way out to africa freedom one day in the future.


    Good Day

    .................................................................................................................................................

    "Why is the United Nations entrenching former colonial powers on our continent? Africans can and should take the lead in resolving their own disputes.

    The second round of the Nov. 28, 2010, presidential elections in Côte d'Ivoire pitted against each other two long-standing political opponents, Laurent Gbagbo and Alassane Ouattara. For this reason, and of strategic importance, it was inevitable that this electoral contest would decide the long-term future of the country. Everybody concerned should have probed very seriously the critical question: Would the 2010 elections create the conditions that would establish the basis for the best possible future for the Ivorian people?


    This was not done. Rather, the international community insisted that what Côte d'Ivoire required to end its crisis was to hold democratic elections, even though the conditions did not exist to conduct such elections. Though they knew that this proposition was fundamentally wrong, the Ivorians could not withstand the international pressure to hold the elections.
    However, the objective reality is that the Ivorian presidential elections should not have been held when they were held. It was perfectly foreseeable that they would further entrench the very conflict it was suggested they would end.

    The 2002 rebellion in Côte d'Ivoire divided the country into two parts, with the north controlled by the rebel Forces Nouvelles, which supported Alassane Ouattara, and the south in the hands of the Gbagbo-led government. Since then, Côte d'Ivoire has had two governments, administrations, armies, and "national" leaders.

    Any elections held under these circumstances would inevitably entrench the divisions and animosities represented and exacerbated by the 2002 rebellion.

    The structural faults which lay at the base of the 2002 rebellion include such inflammable issues as trans-national tensions affecting especially Côte d'Ivoire and Burkina Faso, Ivorian ethnic and religious antagonisms, sharing of political power, and access to economic and social power and opportunities.

    In this regard, the international community has assiduously suppressed proper appreciation of various explosive allegations which, rightly or wrongly, have informed and will continue to inform the views of the Gbagbo-supporting population in southern Côte d'Ivoire -- and much of Francophone Africa!

    These are that Ouattara is a foreigner born in Burkina Faso, that together with Burkinabè President Blaise Compaoré he was responsible for the 2002 rebellion, that his accession to power would result in the takeover of the country especially by Burkinabè foreigners, and that historically, to date, he has been ready to advance French interests in Côte d'Ivoire.

    Taking all this into account, the African Union understood that a lasting solution of the Ivorian crisis necessitated a negotiated agreement between the two belligerent Ivorian factions, focused on the interdependent issues of democracy, peace, national reconciliation and unity.
    In protracted negotiations from 2002, the Ivorians agreed that the presidential elections would not be held until various conditions had been met. These included the reunification of the country, the restoration of the national administration to all parts of the Ivorian territory, and the disarmament of the rebels and all militia and their integration in the national security machinery, with the latter process completed at least two months ahead of any presidential elections. Despite the fact that none of this was honoured, the presidential elections were allowed to proceed.

    In the end, Ouattara has been installed as president of Côte d'Ivoire. Gbagbo, and his wife Simone, have ended up as humiliated prisoners. Many Ivorians have died and have been displaced, much infrastructure has been destroyed, and historic animosities have been exacerbated in the lead up to this outcome.

    Many things have gone radically wrong along the road to this result. Agreements relating to what needed to be done to create conditions for free and fair elections were wilfully and contemptuously ignored. The Ivorian Constitutional Council (CC) is the only body constitutionally empowered to determine the winner in any presidential election and to install the president, with the Electoral Commission (IEC) mandated to forward its provisional results to the CC. However, the very people who insist on the sanctity of the rule of law as fundamental to all democratic practice, elected illegally to recognise the provisional result announced by the chairperson of the IEC on his own, as the authentic outcome of the presidential election.

    As provided by the law, Gbagbo contested the fairness of the elections in certain parts of the country, especially the north. The CC, rightly or wrongly, accepted the majority of the complaints made by Gbagbo, identified other "irregularities," annulled the votes in some districts, and declared Gbagbo the victor. The chairperson of the IEC did not take these alleged irregularities into account and decided that Ouattara had won.

    The envoy of U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, his fellow South Korean, SRSG Young-jin Choi, also determined that Ouattara had won, but on the basis of fewer votes than those announced by the IEC, having determined that some of the complaints made by Gbagbo were legitimate. In terms of the votes cast for the two candidates, the IEC, the CC, and the U.N. SRSG made three different determinations.

    Gbagbo proposed that to resolve this matter, which bears on the important issue of the will of the Ivorian people, an international commission should be established to verify the election results, with the important pre-condition that both he and Ouattara should accept the determination of the commission.

    This proposal was rejected by the international community -- despite the fact that it would have resolved the electoral dispute without resort to war, and despite the fact that some election observers questioned the fairness of the elections, especially in northern Côte d'Ivoire.
    For instance, reporting on the elections in the north, the election observer mission of the AU led by Joseph Kokou Kofigoh, former prime minister of Togo, the independent civil society Societé Civile Africaine pour la Democratie et l'Assistance Electoral led by Seynabou Indieguene of Senegal, and the Coordination of African Election Experts (CAEE) from Cameroon, Senegal, Benin, Mali, Morocco, Gabon, and Togo led by Jean-Marie Ongjibangte of Cameroon, all sounded the alarm about the elections in the north.

    For instance, the CAEE said: "After sharing information with other national and international election observers, we hereby state that the second round of the presidential elections in Côte d'Ivoire was held amidst major problems in (various northern) regions...

    "These problems were stealing of ballot boxes, arresting of candidates' representatives, multiple voting, refusal to admit international observers to witness counting of ballots, and the murder of representatives of candidates. To that effect, we hereby declare that the second round of voting was not free, fair and transparent in these (northern) localities."

    For its part, to this day, the ECOWAS election observer mission has not issued its report on the second round of the presidential election! Why? Clearly the independent international commission proposed by Laurent Gbagbo could have been established and empowered to make a definitive and binding determination about what had happened. Time will tell why this was not done!

    Further, the U.N. SRSG took the extraordinary decision to exceed his mandate by declaring who had won the presidential election, contrary to his tasks as detailed by the Security Council. This positioned the U.N. Mission in Côte d'Ivoire (UNOCI) as a partisan in the Ivorian conflict, rather than a neutral peacemaker, equidistant from the belligerent parties.

    From this point onwards, UNOCI had no choice but actively to work for the installation of Ouattara as president of the country and the removal of Gbagbo. Ultimately, this found expression in the blatant use of its military capacities to open the way for the Forces Nouvelles to defeat the Gbagbo forces and capture Gbagbo, under the shameless pretence that it was acting to protect civilians.

    While obliged to respect its peacekeeping mandate, which included keeping the belligerent forces apart, UNOCI did nothing to stop the advance of the Forces Nouvelles from the north to the south, including and up to Abidjan. Nor did UNOCI or the French Licorne forces, as mandated by the United Nations, act to protect civilians in the area of Duékoué, where, evidently, the most concentrated murder of civilians took place! This recalls the United Nations's failure to end the more catastrophic murder and abuse of civilians in the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo!

    The Ivorian reality points to a number of incontrovertible conclusions. The agreed conditions for the holding of democratic elections in Côte d'Ivoire were not created. Despite strong allegations of electoral fraud, the international community decided against conducting any verification of the process and the announced results. This left unanswered the vitally important question of who actually had won the elections, which Ouattara might have done.
    The United Nations elected to abandon its neutrality as a peacemaker, deciding to be a partisan belligerent in the Ivorian conflict.

    France used its privileged place in the Security Council to position itself to play an important role in determining the future of Côte d'Ivoire, its former colony in which, inter alia, it has significant economic interests. It joined the United Nations to ensure that Ouattara emerged as the victor in the Ivorian conflict.

    This addressed the national interests of France, consistent with its Françafrique policies, which aim to perpetuate a particular relationship with its former African colonies. This is in keeping with remarks made by former French President François Mitterand when he said, "Without Africa, France will have no history in the 21st century," which former French foreign minister Jacques Godfrain confirmed when he said: "A little country [France], with a small amount of strength, we can move a planet because [of our]...relations with 15 or 20 African countries..."
    The AU is also not without blame, as it failed to assert itself to persuade everybody to work to achieve reconciliation among the Ivorians, and therefore durable peace. Tragically, the outcome that has been achieved in Côte d'Ivoire further entrenches the endemic conflict in this country. This is because it has placed in the exclusive hands of the failed rebellion of 2002 the ability to determine the future of the country, whereas the objective situation dictated and dictates that the people of Côte d'Ivoire should engage one another as equals to determine their shared destiny.

    During the decade he served as president of Côte d'Ivoire, Gbagbo had no possibility to act on his own to reunify the country and achieve reconciliation among its diverse people, despite the existence of negotiated agreements in this regard. As he serves as president of the country, Ouattara will not succeed to realise these objectives, acting on his own, outside the context of honest agreement with the sections of the Ivorian population represented by Gbagbo.
    What was to come was foreseen by the then U.S. ambassador in Côte d'Ivoire, Wanda L. Nesbitt. In July 2009, she advised the U.S. government:

    "It now appears that the Ouaga IV agreement, [the fourth agreement to the Ouagadougou Political Agreement which prescribed that disarmament should precede the elections], is fundamentally an agreement between Blaise Compaore [President of Burkina Faso] and Laurent Gbagbo to share control of the north until after the presidential election, despite the fact that the text calls for the Forces Nouvelles to return control of the north to the government and complete disarmament two months before the election...

    "But the 5,000 Forces Nouvelles soldiers who are to be "disarmed" and regrouped into barracks in four key cities in the north and west until a new national army is created, represent a serious military capability that the FAFN [Forces Nouvelles] intends to keep well-trained and in reserve until after the election. The hand-over of administrative power from the FAFN to civilian government authorities is a pre-requisite for elections but, as travelers to the north (including Embassy personnel) confirm: the FAFN retain de-facto control of the region especially when it comes to finances."

    The failure to address the "pre-requisite for elections" predetermined their outcome. The rebel "control" of the north, mentioned by Ambassador Nesbitt, prescribed the outcome of the 2010 presidential election. Similarly, it was the "military capability" of the rebellion, which Ambassador Nesbitt mentioned, that was used to ensure that Ouattara became president of Côte d'Ivoire.

    It is little wonder that as the post-election crisis deepened, Laurent Gbagbo would cry out: I was betrayed! At the end of it all, there are many casualties. One of these is the African Union. The tragic events in Côte d'Ivoire have confirmed the marginalization of the union in its ability to resolve the most important African challenges.

    Instead, the AU has asserted the ability of the major powers to intervene to resolve these challenges by using their various capacities to legitimize their actions by persuading the United Nations to authorise their self-serving interventions.

    The United Nations is yet another casualty. It has severely undermined its acceptability as a neutral force in the resolution of internal conflicts, such as the one in Côte d'Ivoire. It will now be difficult for the United Nations to convince Africa and the rest of the developing world that it is not a mere instrument in the hands of the world's major powers. This has confirmed the urgency of the need to restructure the organisation, based on the view that as presently structured the United Nations has no ability to act as a truly democratic representative of its member states.

    Thus, in various ways, the events in Côte d'Ivoire could serve as a defining moment in terms of the urgent need to reengineer the system of international relations. They have exposed the reality of the balance and abuse of power in the post-Cold War era, and put paid to the fiction that the major powers respect the rule of law in the conduct of international relations, even as defined by the U.N. Charter, and that, as democrats, they respect the views of the peoples of the world.

    We can only hope that Laurent and Simone Gbagbo and the Ivorian people do not continue to suffer as abused and humiliated victims of a global system which, in its interests, while shouting loudly about universal human rights, only seeks to perpetuate the domination of the many by the few who dispose of preponderant political, economic, military and media power.
    The perverse and poisonous proceedings that have afflicted Côte d'Ivoire pose the urgent question: How many blatant abuses of power will Africa and the rest of the developing world experience before the vision of a democratic system of global governance is realised? "

    .................................................................................................................................................
     
  2. Nanren

    Nanren JF-Expert Member

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  3. Kobello

    Kobello JF-Expert Member

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    Nationalism!!,it's like redneck's diapproval of Obama's citizenship.From a South African point of view,I understand Mbeki because in a couple of decades they gonna have to deal with immigrants kids!
     
  4. Nguruvi3

    Nguruvi3 Platinum Member

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    RayB, I've different opinion regarding the same. It is undisputable fact that Africa cannot solve its own social, political or economic problems.
    Let me remind you that Africa was a spectator when Rwanda was reduced to the ash.
    The burundi conflict has been going on and the situation is still volatile, the DRC endless war has not be considered by AU until such time when mass killings is on western TV.

    It is two decades Somalia has no functioning government, the attempt to restore peace and tranquility was regarded as foreign intervention. Many Africans cheered when black hawks went down.
    The AU leaders asked to mediate the conflict; nothing has come out despite rounds of discussions in Nairobi.
    Then, AU opted for military intervention which has done nothing except stalemate. It is inconceivable that 50 countries with strong military fail to deliver for years, not because of military incapability rather disorganized and myopic AU leaders.

    Zimbabwe is another failure, even at the time Africa was given a chance to mediate, they created the 'pseudo democracy' which is best known as African solution i.e. power sharing. In true democracy power sharing especially when one lost election or in absence of any constitutional article which mandate the same is undemocratic.

    The pseudo democracy was extended to Kenya, even though without US intervention the situation could be different.
    The AU under Kikwete could not solve the problem alone!
    Jenda Fraiser undersecratary of state delivered a special message from Washington to end the fight.

    In Uganda, AU is not pointing a finger to Museven's brutality! perhaps we would be in the same category, thanks to the dictum by opposition Chadema who put the national interst before theirs.

    The Ivory saga is a prototype of hypocrisy of Africa leaders. When conflict was brewing and heighten,our leaders asked international community to stay away from Abidjan. One of the mediators was president Kikwete who was seen in chit chat with Bagbo!! Finally the incumbent pres rejected to relinquish power simply because no one has moral authority to tell him abide with resolution. Arrogance is embedded in the DNA of the continent's leaders.
    Two months elapsed without solution from 12 Africa leaders. People in Ivory coast were suffering at the same time the ministers including Membe Keep crossing the continent looking for no solution. I for one, regardless of france interest I accolade their move to arrest and rescue the situation in Abijan.
    It's disgusting to have presidents and ministers spending money in useless meetings in Adis Ababa etc.

    I'm not refuting the fact that western countries selectively have interest in Africa; however the assertion that we can solve the problem on our own is unrealistic. For this reason I second any move to save the lives of commoners by anyone.
     
  5. RayB

    RayB JF-Expert Member

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    Nguruvi3, I was motivated to write this article after hearing the whole truth of the Ivories problem from my Ivorian friend. I really felt for them and that there was something missing in this whole issue.

    He also touched me when he repeatedly mentioned Kikwete (with misspelling due to his strong French accent), that he is one of the puppets in this crisis. He went on highlighting that our president proved to be a hypocrite when he made a massive u-turn on his own judgements. Remember he was supporting Gbagbo before then from nowhere he started approving Quattarra for presidency. He argues that this was due to the promises from French government to our government helping us in some issue (he promised to send me an evidence for this and I will put it up here).

    Well, there is no denying fact that there are a lot of problems in Africa caused by African leaders but the thing which raises questions is this so called 'international intervention'. And they are very choosy on places to intervene, for instance why Libya? The simple answer is OIL. Why not Yemen, Syria? Why were they late to intervene Egyptian crisis?

    And mind you, you mentioned Rwanda in our comment, well you have to remember that France again were the main players of the whole issue.
     
  6. A

    August JF-Expert Member

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    Ray sija soma article yako yote kwa kuwa ni ndefu kidogo, lakini kuna vitu vya msingi nilivyo pata toka kwa wachangiaji wengine kuhusu hoja ya mbeki na hoja ya watoto wa wahamiaji, sasa nikiongelea tatizo la Ivory coast wengi wana ongelea hii kitu ni watu wa kusini ambao ni kabila "yangu" pili kuna kitu kikubwa wattara was the pm wakati wa boungney wakati huo hawa kumkataa? then waka mshort change kupata madaraka, akachukua speaker
    baada ya kifoo cha boungney ndio , yote haya walifanya maksudi ili kumnyima nafasi kama kenya walivyo fanya kwa njia tofauti kumnyima raila, then akarithishwa ndugu ya boungney, mwanajeshi nafikiri alikuwa guiey? nafikiri aliondolewa kwa kutokuwa kiongozi mzuri, akaja gagbo, naye akaa 5 years za mwanzo hakuna uchaguzi ten years latter anashindana na huyo unasema muhamiaji na kushindwa, then kweli utasema wattaara ali chezea uchaguzi? ana resources gani kufanya hayo? kama si njama za kudumaza democracy? ukuja huku kwetu tuna wamalawi tanzania wamekulia na kuoa, kuna Kaunda wa zambia wanasema ni mnyasa lakini alikuwa Raisi wao, kuna chiluba wengine wanasema alitokea congo nk nk, sasa hivi tuna akina Adam jee, RA etc etc sasa kama tuna taka kuleta hicho unacho kieleza nchi zote za Africa tuanze sasa nani anafaa kutoongoza, sio unaona una shindwa ndio unatoa maneno hayo.
    kwa hiyo hiyo anaysis unayosema watu tunafanya, na wewe ni vizuri ukajaribu kupambanua saana hii kitu, mimi nina imani kama mtu ni kiongozi mzuri watu wataliona hilo, hi hadithi ina fanana na wali marafiki zangu wanao amini wao ndio walio leta uhuru, na bila wao basi tusinge upata, na leo hii wana lalamika kwa kutoendelea kwao watasema ni kwa sababu ya ray nk nk
     
  7. Nguruvi3

    Nguruvi3 Platinum Member

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    RayB
    There no more bold and courageous leaders the likes of Nyerere, Nkrumah, Kaunda, Nasa, Neto etc. who could rebuke the western fearlessly. The U-turn by Kikwete is norm to some of us. When Kenya was in trouble he sided with Kibaki and rejected Raila's delegation before he made a u-turn for unknown reason. In domestic affairs JK supported the move by his own party to pay Dowans, two days later he was out criticizing the decision!! So he is the kind of pres you should not trust.
    He want to please everybody, mh!

    The question of Rwanda, yes it's true that the France has share on it; however the AU which is responsible for the welfare of her member did nothing, nothing at all to help Rwanda and Rwandese.

    RayB, Libya has problem with western world for long time. The PAN AM bombing is still hot issue and Ghadaffi was implicated for the same. The war waged is not only about oil but to find an exit for Ghadaffi who once threatened to have WMD. His influence in Africa and in Islam world is a threat to Israel especially if he decides to join Ahmadinajaed. So there are many factors behind the fight in Libya not oil only.Of course to garner the sympathy Ghadaffi is using religion as defensive mechanism. His clout in third world scares everybody from Paris to Washington.

    The Arab spring caught everybody pant down! For instance, Hosni Mubarak was the best ally of western countries especially on Israel security. Unfortunate when time came there was no way to defend Mubarak, the western countries hesitated to go against the mass, at the same time not happy to let Mubarak out.
    The same story applies to Yemen, pres Saleh is a friend to America against Alqaaeda in Arab peninsula, to let him go send a chill message to other friends in region, to keep him in power is impossible because of popular revolt.
    So, you can see the Dichotomy the world is in.

    I always support the so called international intervention if the lives of millions are in danger especially in Africa where the state house means nothing but heaven for selected individuals and their families.
     
  8. Baba Sangara

    Baba Sangara JF-Expert Member

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    It is really unfortunate that you went out of your way to try write something about a crisis you have no understanding of.... The far-fetched conspiracy theories are what hollywood movies are made of... In short there is nothing complicated about the Ivorian problem. People went to vote with the whole world watching on and Gbagbo's party lost...

    Your ridiculous jab at Kikwete just goes to show that you never followed this crisis,even from the TZ perspective. Kikwete was very vocal in asking for a peaceful resolution to this conflict and went as far as calling for Gbagbo to step down way before he was even requested by the AU to help intervene in this problem. He did so at the annual ambassadors dinner (or something of that order) at the Ikulu in Dar. After an initial AU investigation of the crisis that started on the 7th February 2011, David Kapya, a member of the investigation experts, reported his findings back to Kikwete. This report only confirmed what Kikwete knew all along and led him to propose to the AU head of state Panel (of which he was a member) that the President of the Ivorian constitutional council, Paul Yao N'Dre, be tried for High Treason... There is no way along the fiasco in Cote d'Ivoire where Kikwete made a U-turn.

    It is true that the development aid from the French Government to Tanzania was increased by a odd USD 70 Mio. Sarkozy was already upbeat about Kikwete after the TZ elections as far back as early November, so this increase in aid money is no real surprise... Good African leaders regularly get something after a state visit to the developed world.. 70 Mio may represent a lot of money to mortals like you and me but in the world of business or European economies, such a donation with strings attached is indeed peanuts. Further, changes in government aid packages are also not decided in a week, these are things decided over time and the "strings" are determined... Plenty of Gbagbo newspapers called Kikwete a sell out after he did not buy their lie.. They also wrote the same about Jacob Zuma, when Zuma finally saw through their lies to the dismay of the likes of Thabo mbeki...
     
  9. Baba Sangara

    Baba Sangara JF-Expert Member

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    PS: Thabo Mbeki's article is a pile of jaundiced pan-African vomit. You'll have to excuse the man for being misinformed of everything..Mbeki's interest in Ivory Coast have been selfish and self serving business interests since he first pretended to be a mediator here.. The Northerners in the Ivorian conflict had long rejected Mbeki as "mediator" .. Every time he left Abidjan Gbagbo sent him home with a present...numerous mining concessions, Mobile operating license.. You name it.. Mbeki asitudanganye, ye tapeli tu..
     
  10. RayB

    RayB JF-Expert Member

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    Baba Sangara, your comment sounded more than a personal attack on the writer, well am not sure how deep is your understanding on the matter, but if you read my reply to Nguruvi3 (the one you just copied) I clearly mentioned my article was simply a drive from 'my friend Ivorian' who kept mentioning Kikwete's involvement in the whole saga. Without mentioning his name this good friend of mine was and still is one of frontrunners for what they call 'a true Ivorian public' trying to uncover the uncovered. So am not sure how much you know about Ivory Coast than these Ivorians who are at the heart of the matter.

    Again if you read i properly (am sure you didn't), I mentioned asking him for more information on Kikwete's involvement and his u-turn (as he called it) and promised i will put it up here as soon as I get it.

    Hope you will just contribute on the article itself.
     
  11. chitambikwa

    chitambikwa JF-Expert Member

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    Juzi nilikuwa naangalia makala moja inaitwa africa 360degrees inayorushwa na E!Africa ya south africa. Kwa uwazi kabisa watu waliojiwa walisema Laulent Gagbo alikuwa sahihi na mwenzake amewekwa na ufaransa .
    Mfano: katika mkataba mmoja wa miaka ya 60 unasema kuwa ardhi ni ya ivory coast lakini kitu chochote chini ya m.10 ni mali ya ufaransa ,sasa wakati laulent alipoanza kurekebisha haya mambo ufaransa kupitia uno ikafanya mbinu zote kumwondoa.
     
  12. Baba Sangara

    Baba Sangara JF-Expert Member

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    I do not claim to be a Cote d'Ivoire expert but I certainly recognize jaundiced pan-African arguments that failed even with the half-pea-brained Ivorian!... Your friend, like Thabo Mbeki, is only regurgitating second hand arguments already tried by Gbagbo and failed to convince even supposed Allies of his, like Jacob-no-condom-Zuma.. Your friend will never find an article about Kikwete's "u-turn".. They don't exist unless they come from Gbagbo's personal papers (which do not function anymore cause the "boss" is not paying), like ; "Notre Voie" or "Le Temps" ..My friend wake up and smell the coffee and quit posting supposed arguments of your "ivorian friend".... Tell him to come here and participate himself tuelemishane...
     
  13. Nguruvi3

    Nguruvi3 Platinum Member

    #13
    Jun 3, 2011
    Joined: Jun 21, 2010
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    Always election is referendum to the incumbent leader. I don't think Ivorian are stupid not to comprehend the right thing Gbagbo was pursuing. The election which was monitored by international groups clearly indicates the landslide victory for Outtara.
    If the Ivorian voted Gbagbo out, obviously they didn't agree with his policy, that's democracy and should be respected.

    The point that he wanted to reform the 60's treaty or agreement mimic the Mugabe's doctrine on land issue which surfaced every election just to have public shore up. The continent leaders are quick to find reasons to legitimize state house occupation; hence the loophole is to throw the blame to western countries.
    In Tanzania everytime the opposition gains momentum the government lash to western for intereference in domestic affairs, Madame Sophia Simba and Minister Membe can testify my statement.

    It's known that the conflict in Rwanda was between Hutu and Tusi, unfortunate people pervert by injecting conspiracy theory which always implicate the Europeans.

    We tend to forget the results from ballot box instead we are busy insinuating the France occupation as a core issue in Cote de voire anarchy. Not!
    If Gbagbo has the genuine reason on the 60's agreement he would have said it 10 years ago or use it in election manifesto. Even though, when people decide the candidates are bond to concede results because democracy means ''of the people and for the people'
     
  14. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Jun 3, 2011
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  15. Baba Sangara

    Baba Sangara JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Jun 3, 2011
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
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    And here, the top English language blogs from people in Cote d'Ivoire...

    ...Not con-Artists like the white american "professor businessmen" Gary K Busch who specialize on twisting history and fanning anti-western sentiments in hope of Government contracts....

    west africa wins always
    Hotel Ivory
    Until Our Independence
     
  16. M

    Mkodoleaji JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Jun 3, 2011
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
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    Hivi Baba Sangara wewe unadhani watu wote ambao hawaungi mkona upande wa Quatarra hawaijui Ivory Coast? Unajua yaani katika comment zako naona kama umejipa haki ya kujua mambo ya Ivory Coast kuliko mtu mwingine
     
  17. Madabwada

    Madabwada JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Jun 3, 2011
    Joined: May 8, 2009
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    hahahaaa ... nadhani yuko sahihi kwa upande wake though sio vizuri analysis kuwa more of upande mmoja. kuna legitimate claims nyingi sana za upande wa Gbagbo ambazo western media walikuwa wanazi-discredit na ku-value zile za Outtara tu ... i was in accra, ghana (neighbour to i/coast) at the time of this crisis, i happened to meet some of the ppls waliokimbia ile un-rest ... mambo mengi hayaelezwi na hizi international media na yanapoelezwa basi yanapotoshwa sana ... kama sio france ... Ouattara naye angetakiwa awe the Hague at this moment!

    but, i still wonder why comments za Baba Sangara ni sawa na zile zilizoko CNN, BBC, & France24!! Kama nyie ndio diplomats mnaomshauri mh. Kikwete then tafadhali fanyeni kazi zaidi bana!!
     
  18. N

    Nanu JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Jun 3, 2011
    Joined: May 29, 2009
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    Baba Sangara, seems that you know something than what Ray B has put on but the way you have put it is like personal attach and you have not put whatever you know forward about what he has written to negate it rather you tried to show your biasness and being angry. I would have expected that you would have gone on counterfacts you know against what is wrong or lies from the writer.
    You may be right but you are not thorough and i can only read your arrogancy in your posting.
    I still believe that the Westerners are not there for Africa or less developed. You keep the chicken and you feed them only enough for how fat and big you want them to grow before you slaughter them and start again!!!
     
  19. N

    Nanu JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Jun 3, 2011
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    Thanks! You said it!
     
  20. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Jun 3, 2011
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    The West now is facing a harsh economic situation!. Conference kama ile iliyofanyika Berlin mwaka 1884 tutazishuhudia sana, isipokuwa this time zitafanyika kwenye Chamber za Security Council, e.t.c. Watanzania na Waafrika tuamke, hizi media tunazopata habari, si habari zote ni za kweli!. hivyo vyombo vya habari kama vile CNN, BBC, ALJAZEERA, CCTV, vyote motive yake ni kuandaa mazingira ya Imperialism, wakati mwingine ni direct emperialism, wakati mwingine ni Imperialism lakini kupitia kwa puppets wao!. hao majamaa wako tayari hata kusteer civil war katika nchi fulani ili iwe weak, na wao waje kusaini mikataba ya kiwizi kwa kussupport upande mmoja ili ushinde!.

    Viongozi wetu pamoja na mapungufu yao, lakini masikini wanakuwa Blackmailed na hawa jamaa, maana hawa jamaa ndo wachangiaji wakubwa wa bajeti zetu, ndo wenye kumiliki masoko ya mazao na madini yetu, ndo wana control World bank na IMF, ndo wanaotengeneza silaha tunazonunua, ndo wana veto katika security council wakitaka kukuwekea vikwazo hawashindwi. kiufupi wananchi ninabidi tuamke, na tukatae katakata hizi sera za hawa Wezi wa Kimataifa, na pia kuwaeliemisha Waafrika wenzetu na nchi masikini kila nafasi inapotokea.
    La sivyo tutakuwa tunajenga nchi katika msingi laini, kwa maana hii mijamaa ikiamua kukurudisha chini, ina nyenzo nyingi za kufanya hivyo.

    Kwa kuanza lazima tudai reform ya United Nation, mfumo wa veto uondolewe, au kila ukanda wa dunia uwe na veto, lakini isiyoshikiliwa na nchi.
    Lazima tuwe na jeshi la kulinda Uhuru wa Afrika.
    Lazima tuwe na sarafu ya Afrika.
    Tuwe na mfano wa IMF kwa Afrika.
    Tuwe na Benki huru.
    Tuzalishe Chakula kingi.
    Tuache baadhi ya mikataba iliyolenga kuzitega nchi masikini kuwa dhaifu, kama vile kupiga vita mabomu ya ardhini!. kwa maana mabomu ya ardhini yatamzuia mvamizi kuvamia nchi yako, na ni kwa ajili ya stratergic defence, na wala siyo offensive weapon!
     
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