What is the legacy of the post independence generation?

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Regardless of what they did in power, the independence generation, meanining the Nyereres and Kawawas will always be remembered for taking back the country from colonial powers and bringing about political independence. What they did while in power I believe can be excused because they had to start everything from the scratch. There was no precedence to follow or examples to look from. It was literally a time of trial and era. So their legacy will always we the independence of Tanganyika and Zanzibar above everything else.

The next generation is the Mkapas and Kikwetes. They cannot claim any part in the struggle for independence. Unlike the "Independence generation" they also cannot claim they had no precedence to follow or examples to look from. The question is what is according to you JF members, the legacy of the first post independence generation? When the Mkapas, Kikwetes, Lowassas are long gone what will Tanzanians remember them for?

 

[Jasusi]

Hawa post independence generation ni traitors. Badala ya kusogeza mbele mazuri yaliyoanzishwa na watangulizi wao wamekuwa mstari wa mbele kufuta legacies za watangulizi na kuturidisha katika ukoloni mamboleo, politically and economically. Nawalaani wote!

 

[Makame]

1. Kuchakachuliwa Mafuta.
2. Ufisadi kusifiwa na hela inayotokana na hapo kusafishwa ikiwemo kutoa michango ya fungu la kumi na ujenzi wa nyumba za ibada, mashule na zahanati.
3.Mabenki kuibiwa hadi mengine kufungwa, na watanzania; ikiwemo EPA.
4. Watoto kununuliwa mitihani na wazazi wao.
5. Makontena yanayokwenda nchi jirani kuibiwa.
6. Kurundikana kwa mizigo Bandarini na kutoweka mikakati ya kutumia Bandari kuhudumia nchi jirani kwa maslahi ya Watanzania.
7. Kuingia Mikataba m ibovu (Madini, TRC, ATC) you name the other mikatabas.
8.Kumomonyoka kwa maadili; siku hizi siasa imekuwa mchezo wa kihuni. Wazee wanatusiwa na vijana wenye umri wa wajukuu zao.
9. Kuchakachuliwa kwa mafuta.
10. Kuchakachuliwa kwa vyeti vya Elimu. Eti Vice Chancellor wa Kwanza wa Mzumbe; 'Profesa' Warioba ana PhD ya Pacific Western University. PhD ya Kuchakachua kwa Mkuu wa Chuo, hao wahadhiri wake, wafanyakazi wengine na wanafunzi wanajifunza nini kwa hilo? NDIO maana unaona wabunge wanaingia Bungeni na vyeti vya kuchakachuliwa na wanateuliwa kuwa Mawaziri. This is very serious. Tunaenda kuwa taifa la vihiyo.
11. Giza tororo - Indipendence, 50 years on.,
12. Maji matatizo
13. Afya ndio usiseme.
14. Dala dala??? Tembelea Posta ya zamani, feri na baridi, mida ya jioni watu wanapotoka makazini. Kama abiria ni mama mjamzito, bora atenge hela ya Tax au atafute sehemu avushe muda. no civility, no sympathy, no morals, no values.

Zipo nyengine, lakini nawaachia wachangiaji wengine watuwekee hapa

 

[Shamu]

Ktk historia ya TZ hakuna hata kiongozi mmoja ambaye anatakiwe awepo ktk heroic figure. Si Nyerere, Si Kawawa, Si Mwinyi, Si Mkapa, Si JK. TZ haina HERO wa nchi mpaka leo.
Tatizo linaloikuta TZ ya leo ni kwamba kuna WTZ ambao wanatafua kiongozi ktk historia ili awe hero wa nchi, so far, hatuna kiongozi mwenye heroic figure. Nimejaribu kuangalia viongozi wetu wengi waliopita, na wa sasa hivi, bado WTZ hatuna kiongozi shujaa wa nchi. Viongozi wetu wa sasa hivi ni matunda yaliyopandwa na viongozi wetu waliopita. Sasa hivi tuna viongozi ambao hawana uchungu na nchi hii, yote kwa sababu ya foundations iliyopandwa na viongozi waliopota.

Bado tuendelee kumtafuta HERO wa TZ, na nina hakika, naona, bado hajazaliwa.

 

[Chapakazi]

1. Sidhani kama unaweza kusema "what the independence generation did in power can be excused solely because they got us independence". That is very poor thinking my friend. If they failed, which many argue so, it should be said out clearly and unequivocal.
i think at times the uhuru factor has been overblown in proportion. Its not like we were slaves to the British! What is the difference between 1960 and 2011? absolute nothing in my view!

2. The independence generation's job was to set up the foundations of the country. Arguably, their failure to do so has led to the failure in rulership of the post independence generations.

To answer your question, i dont see any legacy coming out of the post independence generation as yet.

 

[Jasusi]

1. Sidhani kama unaweza kusema "what the independence generation did in power can be excused solely because they got us independence". That is very poor thinking my friend. If they failed, which many argue so, it should be said out clearly and unequivocal.
i think at times the uhuru factor has been overblown in proportion. Its not like we were slaves to the British! What is the difference between 1960 and 2011? absolute nothing in my view!

2. The independence generation's job was to set up the foundations of the country. Arguably, their failure to do so has led to the failure in rulership of the post independence generations.
Chakakazi,
Katika number 2, hiyo misingi mbona sisi Tanzania tulikuwa na bahati ya kuwekewa? Nyerere aliwaambia wenzake wawasomeshe vijana wa Kitanzania kabla ya kuruhusu machimbo ya dhababu. Lakini akina Mkapa na Kikwete walijidai much know wakawakaribisha wachimbaji bila mikataba ya manufaa na matokeo yake ndiyo hayo tunayoyaona. Ndio maana kwenye thread nyingine nimewaita hawa akina Mkapa na Kikwete "traitors" kwa sababu wanachokifanya ni kujaribu kufuta mazuri aliyotuachia Nyerere na kutuaminisha kuwa wazungu, waliotuweka chini ya ukoloni, ndio watakaotukomboa.

To answer your question, i dont see any legacy coming out of the post independence generation as yet.

Chapakazi,
Mbona tuliwekewa misingi mizuri tu na Nyerere? Lakini hiki kizazi kimeamua kutomsikiliza. Mfano, katika suala la madini, Nyerere alishauri Watanzania wasomeshwe ili waje wachimbe wenyewe madini hayo. Lakini akina Mkapa na Kikwete wakaona afadhali wampe mzungu
uchimbaji na sisi tuambulie 3% peke yake. Ndio maana katika thread nyingine nimesema hawa wanaturudishia ukoloni mamboleo.

 

[Chapakazi]

Chapakazi,
Mbona tuliwekewa misingi mizuri tu na Nyerere? Lakini hiki kizazi kimeamua kutomsikiliza. Mfano, katika suala la madini, Nyerere alishauri Watanzania wasomeshwe ili waje wachimbe wenyewe madini hayo. Lakini akina Mkapa na Kikwete wakaona afadhali wampe mzungu
uchimbaji na sisi tuambulie 3% peke yake. Ndio maana katika thread nyingine nimesema hawa wanaturudishia ukoloni mamboleo.

Unaweza kuangalia misingi kwa njia mbalimbali. Mimi naamini huwezi kumfundisha mtu awe na character ya namna gani. You can try to influence him, lakini mwisho jinsi atakavyokuwa ni choice yake. Kwa hiyo siongelei ulafi wa hawa viongozi wetu. Ninapoongelea misingi, nina angalia misingi ya utawala. Haya matatizo tuliyonayo leo kwani chanzo chake ni nini? Chanzo ni kutokuwa na misingi mizuri ya utawala. Kwa mfano tatizo la rais kuwa na nguvu, lilianza lini? Kwa nini Nyerere hakutengeneza njia ya kujipunguzia madakara na kuleta a more accountable system? Matatizo ya bunge kuwa na 90% ya chama kimoja, yalianza lini? Sio kwa sababu ya sera za chama kimoja na watu kuamini kuwa ccm ndio mwanzo na mwisho? Hawakujenga misingi ya demokrasia wakitegemea warithi wao watakuwa wapenzi wa nchi kama wao. Lakini wamekuja kukuta kuwa walichofanya ni kutuumiza zaidi. Ivi Mkapa ni nani alimweka pale 1995? Mwinyi mwenyewe, ni nani alimweka hapo? Uchaguzi pekee uliofanyika bila Nyerere ndani ya ccm mwaka 2005 karibia upasue chama bila nguvu ya Nyerere kusema ni nani anafaa au la.
Kwangu mimi nadhani waliweka misingi mibovu. Watu wenye uwezo wa kufanya vitu waliwekwa kando na badala yake kila kitu kuwa politicalised. Kila mahali chama chama chama! Hizi siasi ndio zimetufikisha huku leo, nchi yenye miaka 50 ya uhuru na shida za maji na umeme nchi nzima, elimu mbovu, nk.