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Watanzania kwa nini tunakuwa wepesi kuamini uongo wa CCM?

Discussion in 'Uchaguzi Tanzania' started by Masauni, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. M

    Masauni JF-Expert Member

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    Watu wengi wamekuwa wakitilia shaka sana kwamba elimu bure mpaka form six haiwezekani! Ninajua kwa viongozi wa ccm wanaomaliza muda wao wa kutawala mwaka huu wanalijua hilo, kwamba elimu bure inawezekana. Lakini maskini watanzania wengine ambao wameshazoea kuishi katika ukandamizi na udanganyifu wa CCM wana amini haiwezekani.naomba nikupe baadhi ya mifano ya nchi za africa, tukianzia na majirani zetu Kenya wanatoa elimu ya bure! na kuna social grants nyingi tu wanazo ambazo sisi hatuna. Nchi kama Namibia pia mwanafunzi anachangia kama Tsh 2500 kwa mwaka, and all other stationery wanapewa bure, Pia wana 'social grants' nyingi sana kwa mfano wazee kuanzia miaka 60 wanapata allowances uwe una kazi usiwe nayo, Ukifa ukiwa kazini watoto na mke/mume wako wataendelea kupata your full salary mpaka utakapotimiza miaka 60. mfano umefariki ukiwa na miaka 30 serilkali itaendelea kuwalipa watoto na mke/mme kwa kipindi cha miaka 30 full salary, Angalia pia Botswana,Swaziland,Cameroon. Namibia ni nchi isiyokuwa na resource kabisa zaidi ya uranium na almas kidogo. Sisi tuna mengi. WATANZANIA WENZANGU KWA NINI UONGO WA CCM MNAUAMINI SANA KULIKO UKWELI WA DR.SLAA UNAOLETA NEEMA?
     
  2. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi tatizo langu si kwamba haiwezekani, tatizo langu hata ikiwezekana sio best use of our meagre resources. Kwa nini uwape elimu bure watu wote wakati kuna watu kibao wanaweza kumudu kujilipia ?

    Sina tatizo na a sustainable need/merit hybrid based assistance.Kama kuna vijana wadogo tu wanalipia watoto zao chekechea shilingi milioni tatu kwa mwaka, na hawa nao tutake kuwalipia kwa mpango huu wa "elimu bora kwa wote" ?

    Waliopiga bingo ya EPA nao waweze kupata access hii hii ya "elimu bora kwa wote" sawa na wakulima wenye annual household income ya USD 250 ?
     
  3. PayGod

    PayGod JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 17, 2010
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    hilo sasa neno
     
  4. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Sep 17, 2010
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    Huo ni mfumo. Na mfumo hautakiwi kubagua.

    Kwani Kenya na Namibia (ambao kimsingi wametuzidi kimaendeleo) hakuna watu wenye uwezo? Wapo lakini kwa kuwa ni mfumo, mwenye uwezo na asiye na uwezo wa kujilipia wote wanasoma bure.
     
  5. I

    Interested Observer JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Sep 17, 2010
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    Kiranga,
    You are still "PUMPING THAT STEAM"
    Hiyo fraction ya hao wanaolipia watoto wao kwenye hizo nursery schools kwa million hizo ni wangapi? Are you serious about this?
     
  6. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Mfumo hautakiwi kubagua? Neno mfumo linaendana na kuchambua na kubagua, mwenye kupata kipato cha juu alipe kodi zaidi, wa kipato cha chini alipe ndogo, anayekwenda Kigoma kutoka Dar alipe nauli kubwa zaidi ya anayekwenda Dodoma. Usipokuwa na ubaguzi huna mfumo, una holela.

    Hizi habari za elimu bora kwa wote katika nchi ambayo ina watu wanaoweza kujilipia ni kama kuweka mtego utakaonasa wanaotakiwa na wasiotakiwa. Kiuchumi hauleti mantiki.

    Progress resistant societies are centred in paternalism, while progress prone societies are centred in innovation. Our resources are meagre and in much demand, let's recognize that.
     
  7. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Sep 17, 2010
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    Kiranga,

    Kwani kuna kosa gani kuwa na elimu bure ya jumuia (nilitaka kusema public education) na kisha wenye kutaka private education ya kulipia wakaendelea nayo - kama marekani (au nchi zingine zilizoendelea?)

    Unakumbuka story ya Kenya ambako watoto/watu milioni mbili walijitokeza kusoma siku ya kwanza tu ya masomo baada ya Kibaki kutangaza free education?
     
  8. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    This is a matter of policy, na hiyo fraction ingawa si ndogo hivyo kama unavyotaka tuamini, hata ingekuwa ndogo, hapa tunaongelea kunusuru chochote tunachoweza. Hiyo fraction unayosema ni ndogo ndiyo inayoweza kumsomesha mtoto wa mkulima wa Malampaka ambaye atakuja kuwa rais wa baadaye na kuleta mabadiliko makubwa.

    Vipi kama ungeambiwa wewe ndiye huyo mtoto wa mkulima wa Malampaka asiye na means, halafu unaambiwa umekosa nafasi kwa sababu nafasi yako imechukuliwa na mtoto wa Rostam Aziz au mtu kama yeye ? Au kwa sababu wewe na mtoto wa Rostam wote mnasomeshwa na serikali bure, hospitali yenu ya Malampaka haina dawa na vifaa hivyo mama yako anakosa matibabu muhimu. Utasemaje ?

    Every little bit helps, na tunatakiwa kuwa na utamaduni wa ku conserve zaidi. Hili hata Nyerere mtu aliyetetea sana elimu bora kwa wote aliliona na kulisema katika hotuba ya Mei Mosi 1995 pale Mbeya.

    Kuna tofauti tunaposema tunataka uhuru wa kujieleza kwa watanzania wote kama haki ya msingi, na tunaposema tunataka elimu bure kwa watanzania wote. Tukisema tunataka haki ya kujieleza kama haki ya msingi haina maana tutakulipia space kwenye gazeti uweze kujieleza. Vitu vyenye gharama ni lazima tuviangalie kama vitu vyenye gharama, na kuvipangia matumizi kwa mujibu wa uwezo wetu na majedwali ya kutumia vizuri kabisa uwezo wetu huu.
     
  9. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

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    Je, twaweza kuwa na vyote ==>> free public education + free/paid/wtf private?
     
  10. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Kosa ni kwamba unawapa maamuzi, kwamba "wakitaka" kwenda kwenye private waende. Wasipotaka je? Wakiona public education yetu ni nzuri na ya bure (I am operating under the assumption that it will be superb, otherwise there is no need to plan for this) na hivyo hakuna haja ya kutumia fedha zao kusomesha watoto kwenye expensive private institutions ( the rich can be just as frugal, if not more so than the poor)

    Usitake kuweka system itakayojiweka katika position ya kutegemea huruma za matajiri, walazimishe wenye uwezo kulipa ili fedha hizi zitumike kuwainua masikini wengi wasio na uwezo. Ukisema "elimu bora kwa wote" kimsingi unawapendelea matajiri.
     
  11. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

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    Kiranga,

    Hapa unazidi kuchimba shimo, ngoja nikushauri kama rafiki tu katika hili.

    Mfumo unaoendelea Tanzania sasa hivi kwa huduma kama polisi, barabara, usafi nk, Wanatozwa matajiri kodi, na masikini wanapata bure hizo huduma.

    Polisi wanawalinda raia bure bila kuwachaji chochote kile. Kwa principle yako, naona unaelekea kwenye kushauri kuwa jeshi la polisi (la bure) livunjwe, na wananchi walipie huduma za ulinzi. Kama vile mabenki yanavyotumia walinzi wa private kwa kulipia.
     
  12. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    They say "there is no free lunch in the world".

    Polisi hawawalindi wananchi bure, polisi wanawalinda wananchi kwa kulipwa mishahara na gharama nyingine, mishahara inatokana na kodi za wananchi.Katika kodi hizo za wananchi, matajiri wanalipa kodi kubwa zaidi ya masikini. Basically huo mfano wako sio tu unaitetea point yangu ya kwamba matajiri walipe, bali unaongezea kipengele kingine kwamba ikiwezekana matajiri walipe zaidi kufidia maskini wanaopewa grants za serikali.

    Tunachotakiwa ni kuongeza specificity zaidi na kuondoa hizi systems kutegemea mfuko mmoja wa kodi kutoka serikali kuu, tuweke malipo kwenye elimu ili tuweze kudhibiti mapato na matumizi ya elimu vizuri zaidi.

    Hivi Tanzania hatuna PAYE system? Kodi anayolipa Bakhresa/ Mengi / Rostam ni sawa na kodi ya ndugu zangu wakulima wa jembe la mkono ?

    Mfano wako mwenyewe unaonyesha ni jinsi gani hizi habari za "elimu bure kwa wote" ni political populism zaidi kuliko applied economics.

    Tatizo letu hatufikirii zaidi ya "stage one'. Ndiyo maana tunachotwa kirahisi na populism.
     
  13. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Sep 17, 2010
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    Kiranga,

    Unless kama unataka kuanzisha mfumo tofauti kuliko yote inayotumika duniani, then utakuwa na point. Nchi nyingi duniani, matajiri wanalipa kodi kubwa (kwa amount) kuliko masikini. Hata Obama sasa hivi anahangaika kufanya watu wanaopata pesa zaidi ya 200k walipe kodi zaidi.

    Hii inaendelea tayari. Point yangu ni kuwa, kama wewe uko tayari kuchaji matajiri kodi zaidi na kutoa huduma za polisi, barabara, wazima moto, wafagizi, mahakama, etc bure kwa masikini, kwa nini iwe vigumu kufanya hivyo kwenye elimu?

    Si sawa

    Mfumo wa elimu bure kwa wote sio political populism, nchi zote zilizoendelea - marekani, canada, za uropa zimefanya hili.

    Je kwao applied economics haifanyi kazi?
     
  14. K

    KGM Senior Member

    #14
    Sep 17, 2010
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    Sikujua kuwa una akili ya kuchakatua/kuchakachua au ni ligi tu unataka
     
  15. pmwasyoke

    pmwasyoke JF-Expert Member

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    Hata kama matajiri nao watapawapeleka watoto wao kwenye hizo shule public ambazo zitakuwa bure na tukiassumme zitakuwa zimeboreshwa sana kuwavutia, hakuna ubaya. Matajiri wachangie kwa kodi zaidi, sio kwa kujaribu kuwanyima public schools. Hakuna haja ya kuwatoza kodi mara mbili.
     
  16. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    let's keep it civil please if you don't mind
     
  17. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Hapa naona kuna tatizo la applied economics vs political populism.
     
  18. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

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    kwa vipi?
     
  19. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Huko kwa Obama unakokupigia mfano kuna kitu kinaitwa Pell Grant, hii ndiyo grant ambayo iko wazi kwa watu wengi zaidi kuliko zote kwa Mmarekani kupata.

    Lakini serikali kabla ya kukupa grant itakuuliza uionyeshe tax return, ijue wewe na familia yako mna kipato gani etc.

    Hawa matajiri wenyewe hawatoi misaada isiyoangalia kwamba anayesaidiwa anahitaji msaada au hahitaji. Na wao matajiri wana pesa zaidi yetu, sie maskini tunaopewa misaada nao kila mwaka tunataka kujitutumua tutoe "elimu bure kwa wote" bila kujiuliza kama huyu tunayempa elimu bure anamudu kulipia au hamudu.

    Ukisema "elimu bure kwa wote" kimsingi una wa penalize maskini na kuwapendelea matajiri.

    Hata huyo Karl Marx, mtetezi wa statism and it largesse alisema "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

    Huko upande wa pili wa shilingi kwa mabepari ndio hawataki kabisa kusikia habari za welfare state, sasa huu mfumo unatoka wapi ?
     
  20. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    Hivi Kiranga,
    Huwa unafanya makusudi au ni kutojua?
    Mwanzisha mada anaongelea elimu ya msingi na upili, Pell grants etc ni kwa elimu ya chuo kikuu (ambayo mwandishi hajaomba iwe bure). Sasa wewe unavyosema hayo hapo juu unakwepa swala linaloongelea au ndiyo yale ya kawaida ya kubadili topic?

    Nasubiri uoneshe how ... weka maanani jinsi ambavyo masikini zaidi ya milioni mbili wameingia shule nchini kenya baada ya serikali kuanzisha elimu ya bure.

    Je matajiri walifaidika vipi na masikini kuadhibiwa vipi?
     
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