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Wasi Wasi wa Udini

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Augustine Moshi, Jul 4, 2006.

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  1. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Haya mawazo hapa chini niliyaposti kwenye Maoni.org, lakini kwa vile haifukuti, hakuna aliyejibu. Kwa vile nataka mawaidha kuhusu hili dukuduku langu, nimeona niposti hapa. Kumradhi kama nimefanya kosa.
    ====================================
    Naona viongozi wa ngazi za juu za CCM sasa ni used soldiers. Mwenyekiti ni Kanali Kikwete, Katibu Mkuu ni Luteni Makamba na Naibu Katibu Mkuu ni Kapteni Mwanri. Haina neno.

    Nina duku duku kuu: JK anapoteua viongozi, lazima aangalie asije akafanya watu wadhani ni mdini. Au JK ni mdini? Mbona safu karibu yote ya viongozi wa CCM alioteua ni wa dini moja? Kwa sasa, Mwenyekiti (JK) ni Muislamu, Katibu Mkuu (Makamba) ni Muislamu, Naibu Katib wakuu wawili (Jaka Mwanri na Saleh Feruz) ni Waisalamu, Mweka Hazina (Rostam Aziz) ni Muislamu, Organizing Secretary (Kidawa Hamad) ni Muislamu, Publicity Secretary - Internationa Affairs (Asha-Rose), nadhani naye ni Muislamu.

    Huenda JK sii mdini, bali amejikuta tu akiteua watu wa dini moja. Na alipochagua mabalozi wapya alijikuta vile vile anakumbuka tu zaidi watu wa dini moja?

    Si vema JK akaleta hisia za kidini. Huenda hakukusudia kupendelea dini moja, lakini ameleta hisia hizo. Ni vema akawa makini, ili hisia hizo zisiendelee.

    Naamini kwamba ni vema kusema matatizo yanaweza kutokea wapi, kabla hayajatokea. Lazima tulinde amani tuliyo nayo kwa kusema yale ambayo tunadhani yanaweza kuleta matatizo baadaye.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  2. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

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    Mwl. Moshi,

    usije ukaona na hapa, wanabodi wamekaa kimya ukafikiri hakuna wa kuzungumzia hilo suala, la hasha, hiii imeshazungumzwa sana sana ktk mada moja ya "uteuzi wa mabalozi na .......", soma walivyoandika wanbodi na uone kama dukuduku lako litakuwaje halafu weka mchango wako kwenye hiyo mada
     
  3. FairPlayer

    FairPlayer JF-Expert Member

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    Mzee Moshi,

    Samahani, Jaka Mwambi na sio Jaka Mwanri, ndio naibu katibu mkuu naye ni Mkristo wa Roman Catholic, ninamfahamu mno.
    Mwanri ni Katibu Mwenezi sina uhakika na dini yake lakini ana sound kama Christian.

    Back to the topic, Usemacho kina ukweli, labda kama wanavyodai kuwa sisi waislamu tulichelewa kusoma au JKN alifanya jitihada makusudi tusisome, kwahiyo hatuna vyeo vingi serikalini, kwahiyo jamaa ana balance power. Sio kuwa nakubaliana na hoja hiyo ila ninasema wasemavyo wanao support hoja hiyo.

    Kweli tumelijadili hili kwenye uteuzi wa mabalozi. check huko.

    Mwalimu karibu humu kidooogo kuna "watu" maoni.org nimejitoa kwasababu kuna utitiri wa mada zisizo na kichwa wala miguu, inakuwa ni rahisi kwa mada yenye maana kufunikika.

    Tumpe JK muda kama two years tuone huo ukabila na Udini maana imesemekana Adadi ni wa karibu na IGP na yeye. Tucheck mambo!!

    Tumpe Muda kabla ya kuhukumu!

    FD
     
  4. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Asanteni sana Ogah na Fikiraduni. Naenda sasa hivi huko kwenye mada ya uteuzi wa mabalozi, na nitaisoma kwa makini sana.

    Ukiona vyaelea vimeundwa. Hii hali nzuri ya kupendana, kuishi pamoja na kuheshimiana kati ya watu wa dini mbali mbali nchini kwetu, ilifanyiwa kazi sana na Mwalimu. Lazima iendelezwe, na tukiona kiongozi mpya anaiharibu, ni lazima tupige kelele mapema kabla hajafaulu.

    Mtu akisema kwamba Mwalimu Nyerere aliwanyima Waislamu kusoma anakufuru. Hakuna Mtanzania aliyejaribu kuwapatia Waislamu nafasi ya kusoma kuliko Mwalimu. Alinyanganya hata shule za binafsi, ambazo kwa sehemu kubwa zilikuwa za Makanisa, na akazipa majina yasiyokuwa ya kidini ili Waislamu wajisikie huru kwenye hizo shule.

    Baadhi ya shule za Wakristo ambazo Mwalimu alizinyanganya kwa manufaa ya Waislamu ni Assumption College (ambayo aliita Weru Weru), St. Franci's College (ambayo aliipa jina la Pugu), St. Andrew's College (Minaki) na Miriam College (Kilakala). Ziko vile vile Ashira, Umbwe, n.k.

    Mwalimu sasa ni marehemu. Kama yeye ndiye aliwazuia Waislamu kujenga mashule, mbona bado hawajengi? Bado wamebaki nyuma sana kwenye Elimu.

    Jibu la kweli ni kwamba falsafa ya Kiislamu haipendi vitu vya Kimagharibi, ikiwa ni pamoja na Elimu. Ziko nchi nyingi ambako Mwalimu hakuhusika na Waislamu wakabaki nyuma kielimu. Kenya na Uganda ni mifano mizuri.

    Namshukuru sana Mzee Mkapa kwa kuwapa ndugu zetu Chuo cha Tanesco ili waanzishe chuo chao kikuu. Nawasihi Kikwete, Makamba na viongozi wengine wawahimize ndugu zetu Wislamu wakazanie zaidi Elimu.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  5. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Augustine Moshi,
    Ama kweli wewe mdini ndugu yangu. Yaani maelezo yako yote ni kidole kwa waleee..Waislaam na kuchambua jinsi wakristu walivyoonewa na Nyerere. Je, mbona hukuzungumzia shule na mali za wahindi kwa mfano huohuo? au kwa sababu hawa ni Baniani na masingasinga kwa hiyo kuna tofauti na shule za kikristu za wazungu. Je, Nyerere alipotaifisha shule za wahindi na bado wao wamesoma kuliko sisi ina maana sisi ujinga wetu wenyewe au sio? Mshikaji pima vitu kwanza sio kwa mapenzi yako, wewe Mtanzania kwanza huo ukristu umebatizwa na kesho unaweza kufa kafiri vilevile -ukachomwa moto, lakini bado utaitwa Binadamu, Mweusi, Mwanaume, Mtanzania na Mwafrika. Dini dini yako wewe itakupeleka sijui peponi au motoni lakini hapa hatuna dini na mpango wa kunyoosheana vidole kwa rangi za dini mshikaji haitakusaidia kitu.
    Elimu haiendi kwa dini na kama ndivyo basi kusini mwa jangwa la sahara sijui dini gani ime-dominate?...na imekuwaje waafrika wa sehemu hii ndio maskini kuliko wote kwa mali na elimu. Acha upuuzi mshikaji tunazungumzia maswala yenye upeo kwa faida ya Watanzania wote na sio kundi la watu.

    JK kisha chagua hao waislaam na huwezi kufanya kitu. Utalia weee na bado JK atakuwa madarakani, kesho kutwa anakamata Lowassa na Rostam (Mhindi koo wa Igunga), bado atakuwa mstari wa mbele hata kama kanisa lako litapinga.
     
  6. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Mkandara,

    Ni vema ukawa unajitahidi kuelewa kilichosemwa. Sikumlaumu Nyerere kwamba aliwaonea Wakristu. Nilitoa huo mfano wa Nyerere kunyanganya shule za Wakristu ili kupinga hoja iliyotolewa kwamba Mwalimu aliwanyima Waislamu kusoma.

    Nyerere alifanikiwa sana kwenye kujenga umoja. Hakuonea dini wala kabila lolote. Alijaribu kumaliza ukabila kwa kufuta umangi, na kusaidia Waislamu wasome kwa kukamata shule binafsi, ambazo nyingi zilikuwa za za Wakristu, na kuzifanya mali ya serikali.

    Na hao Wahindi unaosema wamesoma kuliko sisi wako wapi? Wahindi wa Tanzania huendeleza tu biashara, sio kisomo. Hawaendi vyuoni. Wakishafuta ujinga, basi, wanaondoka zao shule.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  7. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #7
    Jul 6, 2006
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    Asiyejua historia, basi atajikuta anairudia! Sikutaka kulizungumzia jambo hili la udini lakini kwa kutokufanya hivyo nimejikuta dhamiri yangu ikinisuta. Wakati watu wako matatani, au wakati wa shida au maangamizi, si ukatili wa adui utakaokumbukwa sana, bali ukimya wa rafiki zetu. Ni kwa sababu hiyo nimezungumza kwa kirefu juu ya nini Mhe. JK afanye ili kunyamazisha hii minong'ono ya udini. (Sikiliza: www.mwanakijiji.podomatic.com). Hata hivyo, nimeamua kuandika pia kwa wale ambao hawana uwezo/hawapendi kusikiliza KLH News. Kabla sijasema sana nitawanukulia hapa sehemu ya hotuba aliyoitoa Mwalimu katika kuadhimisha sikuu ya Uhuru Dec 9, 1968. Alizungumzia sana kuhusu "vitu ambavyo hatuna budi kuvisahihisha" (Soma: Freedom and Development Uk.74) Wakati Mwl. anatoa hotuba hii kulikuwa na minong'ono ya Ukabila iliyoanza kuingia na Mwl. hakulipuuzia hilo bali alilizungumzia mara moja. Ninainukuu hotuba moja kwa moja:

    "First, I have begun to hear whispers about tribalism. Just after independence we got complaints that people were being appointed to government work on the basis of tribalism, and we immediately appointed a Commission to look into these allegations. The commission proved without any doubt that there was no tribalism in the allocation of jobs in government. But just recently I began to hear this complaint again. I did not treat this grumbling lightly. We called some of these people who were saying that there is tribalism, and told them to give their evidence either to me or to Chief Mang'enya. We promised to in investigate it immediately. But they have not given us one shred of evidence.

    There are two things I want to say. The first is to ask any citizen who has some evidence of tribalism, to pass that evidence in confidence to anyone whom he trusts and who will be able to get the information either to me, to the First or Second Vice-President or to Chief Mang'enya. I promise you that we shall deal with anyone who practices tribalism.

    But the second thing, and more important, is that the man who talks about tribalism being practiced without having any evidence for his statement is often a man who wants to stir up tribalism. Even if that is not his purpose, the result can be just the same. People will begin to think that there is tribalism and, once people begin to think in these terms, then tribalism has begun to enter into our society.

    My purpose in bringing this matter out into the open is so that you may all be on your guard against people who want to stir up tribalism here. The work of civil servants is different from that of politicians. In order to be a political leader, a man does not have to have any particular educational qualifications. But the work of the civil servants and people in the parastatal organizations does require education - indeed, year after year we spend large amounts of money on education just so that later on our young people will be able to do the work of government and public institutions. For the time being we use foreign experts and those few Tanzanians who had the good fortune to go to school during the colonial times.

    It so happened that the Tanzanians who had the opportunity for higher education under the colonialists were mostly Wahaya, Wachagga, and Wanyakyusa. And because most of the education was provided by missionaries, most of these people are also Christians. That was our inheritance. These conditions will change, but they have not changed yet. And for these reasons, when we get rid of the Europeans who were doing responsible jobs, and give these jobs to Tanzanians, the people who get them come mostly from one or other of these three tribes.

    Therefore, if you ask me why Wahaya, Wachagga, and Wanyakyusa have most of the jobs, which require education, the answer is very obvious. They were the one who received higher education during colonial times. I'd say: investigate the position in politics where a man is not asked about his educational qualifications. Look at the parliament, the National Executive and Central Committee of TANU, and the Cabinet. How many Wanyakyusa, Wahaya, or Wachagga are members? You will find that perhaps there aren't any, or there are one or two. This is the truth.

    Anyone who refuses to accept a very obvious truth like this, and says that the reason is tribalism, must provide us with the evidence for his statement. If he cannot provide any evidence, we must conclude either that he is a fool, or that he is stirring up tribalism deliberately. He is the sort of a person who begs work on a tribal basis, and when he is refused because he does not have the capabilities, he pretends he was refused on tribal grounds.

    It is the job of the government to help, and even to favour, the more backward parts of the country, especially as regards education. We are doing this and will continue. But if a Mchagga, a Mhaya, or a Mnyakyusa young man were refused work simply because of his tribe-when he is capable and there is no other Tanzanian with the qualification- then we would be practicing a very stupid and very evil kind of tribalism such as that which caused the establishment of Biafra. I beg you, my brothers, avoid anything, which could bring our country into this kind of disgrace."


    Sasa ukisoma hotuba hiyo, badilisha maneno ya Ukabila na weka neno la Udini. Halafu jaribu kufikiria kama Kikwete anaweza kuitoa hotuba hiyo na changamoto aliyotoa Nyerere (leteni ushahidi!). Sasa Kikwete afanye nini... mfano uko wazi!!!!
     
  8. S

    Sam JF-Expert Member

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    Jul 6, 2006
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    Mwanakijiji,
    This is a great speech. I think this is the key to JK and all of us.
    "Even if that is not his purpose, the result can be just the same.", JKN
    Kama nilivyosema mwanza haya mambo ya minong'ono yanaanza pale ambapo wanakosa sababu za kitu fulani. Alipoteua mawaziri watu walimpongeza sana lakini leo wameanza kuchunguza baraza hilo la mawaziri na kugundua kuwa wizara zote muhimu zimeshikwa na watu wa imani fulani. Kwa upande wangu hilo silo tatizo kwangu kama watu waliowekwa wanafanya kazi. Pale alipoteua mabalozi and non of them has knowledge on foreign affairs or relations among countries a.k.a international relations hapo ndipo watu walipoanza kutafuta ni kwa nini amefanya hivyo na jibu rahisi lililokuja vichwani mwa watu ni udini. Again, "Even if that is not his purpose, the result can be just the same.", JKN
     
  9. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanakijiji,
    Great contribution! Great speech. Hawa viongozi wetu wa CCM wanajidai wanamwenzi Mwalimu. Uongo mtupu. I may be wrong but given time, awamu ya nne itakumbukwa si kwa udini tu bali pia kwa ukabila.
     
  10. M

    Mkwawa Old Member

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    Ninadhani kama JK angeteua waislam ambao wana uwezo na wanakubalika kusingelikuwa na hisia ya udini.


    Lakini ukingalia kwa mfano Mapuri alikuwa waziri wa mambo ya ndani. Adadi alikuwa DCI. Ni ukweli uliowazi toka JK aingie madarakani anapambana na tatizo la ujambazi ambalo limetuletea madhara makubwa sana!

    Na hao watu wawili ndiyo walikuwa wana wajibu wa kukomesha ujaambazi au kuupunguza lakini cha ajabu inaonekana kama walikuwa wanalinda majambazi badala ya usalama wa wananchi!

    Sasa JK anapowateu tena hawa watu kushika nafasi kubwa na wakati kuna watanzania kibao. Mimi ninadhani hapo ndipo anaosababisha watu waanze kujiuliza kulikoni? sidhani kama akimteua mtu mchapakazi na Mwislamu/Mkristu watu waanze kulalamika hapo itakuwa ni udini.

    Mfano mwingine ni balozi wa UK. Huyo amelalamikiwa sana katika utendaji wake wa kazi! lakini Jk alichofanya ni kuwakatisha watu tamaa na kumpeleka huyo jamaa Paris! kwa haraka haraka watu watasema tu labda ni udini!!

    Ninadhani akiacha Cronyism itasaidia pia kupunguza manung'uniko.


    Cha maana ni kwamba awe makini katika uteuzi wa viongozi Tanzania ina watu milion 37! acha tufanye kwamba kuna watanzania pool and possible kati ya 150,000-500,000. Sasa ni kwa nini JK aendelee kuchagua watu wale wale?

    Ninadhani tukiweza kulipigia kelele hili na tukafanikiwa itakuwa kazi nzuri sana kuliko hata hilo la udini.

    Ukichagua watu wanaolalamikiwa au wameshindwa katika wizara nyingine na wakati huo huo ni wa dini moja na wewe, then tegemea kuambiwa kuwa wewe unatumia udini hata mimi nitasema hivyo!
     
  11. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Wosia wa Mzee wa Kijiji kwamba ghasia za kidini zinaweza kuanza kwa sababu ndogo sana ni wa muhimu. Imeshatokea hivyo mara nyingi nchini Nigeria. Ni hatari kupuuza hisia za kidini zinapojitokeza, na JK amefanya zijitokeze sana. Lazima tujitahidi kufanya kila tuwezalo ili kuendeleza amani na upendo uliopo kati ya Watanzania.

    Namna ya kudumu kulinusuru taifa na athari za kiongozi mdini, mkabila au mwenye dosari nyingine katika uteuzi wa nafasi za kisiasa ni kama ifuatavyo:

    Uteuzi wa watu kama mabalozi, mawaziri, majaji wa Mahakama Kuu, wakuu wa majeshi na Mkuu wa Benki ya Tanzania uwe unapitishwa na Bunge.

    Kwa mfano, Rais akitaka kumteua Abdalah John awe mkuu wa JWTZ (CDF), basi huo uteuzi upelekwe Bungeni kama mswada. Jina likipitishwa na kamati husika ya Bunge (Ulinzi na Usalama, kwa mfano huu), basi mswada unafikishwa kwenye kikao cha Bunge. Wakishachangia wabunge watakaopenda kufanya hivyo, kura zinapigwa. Abdalah John akipata zidi ya asilimia 50 za kura zote basi anakuwa amepitishwa. Akishindwa kupita, basi Rais anachagua mtu mwingine, na mfumo wa kumpitisha unarudwa.

    We owe it to our country to institute a system of checks and balances that will protect its citizens from the vagaries of its presidents.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  12. M

    Mugishagwe JF-Expert Member

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  13. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Mwanakijiji,
    Babu kubwa na hongera sana kwani Umetumia mjuzi wa lugha - JKN.
    Unajua kiinachoendelea leo hii TZ ni rangi za watu ktk dini. Na hakuna swala ambalo haliangaliwi kwa rangi hizi hasa inapokuwepo wasiwasi ya Ukabila ama Udini.
    Kama umewsoma vizuri kuna watu humu ndani wamesema Mwinyi alikuwa mdini na kutoa mifano ya kuchomwa bucha na Mwembe chai hali..WHY?
    Jee huu ni ushahidi tosha wa kumweka Miwnyi ktk udini? na zaidi ya hapo basi habari za Mwembe chai zimetokea wakati wa Mkapa na sio Mwinyi. Pili, ukitazama habari za kuchoma moto bucha za nyama (nguruwe) utakuta kwamba ni sisi raia waumini (waislaam) waliochukua sheria mkononi na sio Ikulu, serikali wala wanachama cha CCM (waislaam)kiliohusika na uchomaji moto... Na Mwinyi aliwashughulikia wale waliovunja sheria bila kujali dini zao ama kabila zao.
    Kwa hiyo hapa ushahidi huu hauna nguvu wala sauti na nina hakika wengi hapa hawafahamu kwa nini Mwinyi alilaumiwa kuazisha cheche za Udini.
    Sasa tukirudi kwa JK na hawa viongozi tena sijui wanaozungumziwa ni mabalozi ama sekretaeti ya CCM.
    Ikiwa ni mabalozi nawaomba wanipe majina ya balozi ambao mnaona hawana kisomo (elimu) hicho kisha tuliangalie upya mabalozi wa Mkapa na hata Nyerere elimu zao. Aslimia 80 ya mabolozi wote leo hii (mabalozi wa JK) wamechaguliwa na Mkapa muda mfupi kabla hajamuachia nafasi JK. Leo JK kabadilisha hao sita tu, hali Mkapa alibadilisha mabalozi wote alipoingia mwaka 1995, vunja vunja na kuweka watu wake. Iwe dini, kabila ama nasaba mradi wote wana-represent interest zake. Sikuona mtu akisema kama ni udini, ajabu kubwa hao waislaam ambao wanaonekana ni walalamikaji wakubwa hawakusema kitu.
    Tukirudi ktk sekretarieti ya CCM. Ndugu Augustine ikiwa kweli mlimwona JK ni mdini kwa nini mlimchagua?... Chadema chama cha kikristu hii inajulikana kwani kuweka waislaam ndio dawa?.. lakini kwangu hii sii hoja ikiwa hawa wakristu watakuwa na nia nzuri na Watanzania kuliko CCM. Zipo nchi kibao zinazongozwa na vyama vya kidini, kimojawapo ni hicho cha Ujarumani kinachowapa support Chadema lakini hapa tunachoangalia ni sera, ilani na mwelekeo wa chama. Hata kama Chadema kitakuwa na mgombea kiti cha Urais Kardinali, binafsi naweza kabisa kumchagua huyu Kardinali ikiwa kiongozi huyu atakuwa mzalendo na mwenye uchungu na nchi yetu kwa faida ya Watanzania wote. Hii ndiyo demokrasia lambayo haiwezi kusimama nchi kama yetu, na hasa inapofikia kiongozi huyo kuwa muislaam.
    Augustine Moshi,
    Mifano yako yote inatazama upande mmoja wa shilingi. Ikiwa waislaam walilalamika kuhusu Nyerere kutowapa elimu kwa nini umerukia kutaifishwa kwa shule za kikristu?. Waislaam kama wamelalamika jaribu kuangalia lawama zao kwanza nje ya dini yako kwani lawama zao ni kwa JKN , sio kanisa. Wapo wanaotazama swala zima la malalamiko ya waislaam kwa rangi zake na ni haohao ndio wanaosema kwa sababu JKN ni mkristu basi lazima Nyerere alitumia Udini.
    Nitawajibu mimi watu hao, kwani jibu lake rahisi sana.
    Ikiwa Tanzania tulipata Uhuru mwaka 1960 na kuwa Jamhuri 1961 hapa dhahiri watu wote tulikuwa hatukupata kusoma isipokuwa kwa wale wakristu. Shule nyingi zilitaifishwa baada ya azimio la Arusha hii ikiwa na maana yule aliyeanza kusoma darasa la kwanza mwaka 1961, tayari aliweza kuingia shule za Secondari ambazo zilikuwa chini ya serikali.
    Kwa hesabu kubwa tena ushahidi upo shule za Dar, Pwani, Tanga na hizo za Arusha na Moshi ndizo zilizopewa nafasi zaidi ya shule za mikoa mingine. Mikoa hii sita tu ilitoa idadi zaidi ya nusu ya wanafunzi kuingia shule za sekondari. Na kati ya mikoa hii Dar, Pwani na tanga wakazi wake wengi ni waislaam.
    Pili, wakati mambo haya yakitokea kuna watu waliosema hapa kuna Ukabila na hasa JKN hakupenda watu wa Ukanda wa ziwa kupata elimu ya juu zaidi ya kuwa askari na wanajeshi - ambao ni Royal kwake. Haya angalia basi JKN kawa Mkabila kwa kuwanyima watu wake elimu!.. hiyo tena mpya lakini ilisemwa na ukweli ulikuwepo kwamba watu wa ukanda wa ziwa walipata nafasi chache zaidi kwenda mbele. Kuna shule zilitoa mwanafunzi mmoja tu toka darasa la saba hali mtu huyo ana A tatu, na B ktk masomo saba...
    Lakini je, kweli JKN alikuwepo ktk board ya uchaguzi wa wanafunzi kwenda darasa la saba?... hakuwepo wala hakuhusika. Wananchi walishindwa kuelewa kwamba Tanzania ilikuwa ikichukua nafasi za secondari sio kwa sababu ya kushinda tu ila nafasi zilizopo. Mkishinda mtihani wa darasa la saba watu 10,000 hali madarasa yapo kwa wanafunzi 8,000 hapo kuna njia gani?...Ukiongeza mikoa ya Kagera na Mbeya mikoa hii tayari ilikuwa na 3/4 ya wanafunzi wote wa shule za msingi nchini. Mikoa hii ilikuwa na shule za msingi nyingi sana na wakazi wengi sana kuliko mikoa yote combined. Tena basi tumeacha mitihani nyenyewe inauzwa kwa watu hata kabla ya siku yenyewe. Udini ama Ukabila wa Nyerer uko wapi hapa.
     
  14. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Jul 8, 2006
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    Mkandara,

    Hakuna anayedai kwamba Nyerere alikuwa Mdini au Mkabila. Mfano tuliotoa wa kutaifisha shule ni wa kuonyesha Nyerere alijaribu kuwasaidia Waislamu. Tumekueleza hivyo lakini bado unang'ang'ania kwamba tunamshutumu Nyerere kwa Udini. Ukweli ni kwamba tumetaja mara kadhaa katika michango yetu hapo juu kwamba Nyerere ndiye aliyejenga sana umoja wa Watanzania. Tafadhali uwe unasoma michango kabla ya kuiandikia majibu.

    Umeuliza: "Kama JK ni Mdini kwa nini mlimchagua?" Walimchagua wale wanaoshabikia viongozi kama mpira. Kwa upande wangu, utakumbuka kwamba nilimaka sana kule bcstimes wakati CCM ilipoelekea kumchagua JK kuwa mgombea wake. Niliwaaseni kwamba hakuwa anafaa. Nilisema wazi kwamba mtu ambaye hana hata tabia nzuri a kutotembea nje ya ndoa hawezi kuwa Rais. Niliwaambie mara kadhaa kwamba anayeshindwa kuwa aminifu kwa familia hawezi kuwa aminifu kwa taifa zima. Kutokana na ungumbaru, inawezekana asilimia 80 ya Watanzania walimchagua JK. Inawezekana vile vile isiwe hivyo, kwani wote tunajua CCM huiba kura.

    Vile vile, fahamu kwamba JK alificha makucha yake hadi akachaguliwa kwanza. Ingefahamika mwanzoni kwamba hawezi kuweka uwiano wa kijinsia, kijiografia na kidini kwenye teuzi zake za kujaza nafasi za kisiasa, hangeteuliwa kuwa mgombea wa CCM. Ni mnafiki, alificha makucha yake kwanza.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  15. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #15
    Jul 8, 2006
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    Augustine Moshi,
    Umeandika hivi:-
    Mtu akisema kwamba Mwalimu Nyerere aliwanyima Waislamu kusoma anakufuru. Hakuna Mtanzania aliyejaribu kuwapatia Waislamu nafasi ya kusoma kuliko Mwalimu. Alinyanganya hata shule za binafsi, ambazo kwa sehemu kubwa zilikuwa za Makanisa, na akazipa majina yasiyokuwa ya kidini ili Waislamu wajisikie huru kwenye hizo shule.

    Nadhani haya yalikuwa maneno yako ambayo yalitanguliwa na maelezo mazuri. Na kwa mwenye kuelewa hii hoja hakuna zaidi ya kwamba wewe sio muislaam ila mkristu mwenye lake jambo! Maelezo yangu yote yalihusu maneno haya ambayo sikuona kabisa yanahusiana vipi na uwezo wa Nyerere kutoleta Udini. Kuyapa majina ya Kiswahili shule za makanisa inahusu nini kwa waislaam hali hata shule za wahindi zilipewa majina hayo. Hapa sijui ndio tuseme waafrika wajisikie nyumbani?.. sioni kabisa uhusiano. Shule hizi zilikuwa za wakoloni watawala ambao kwa bahati mbaya ama nzuri walikuwa na dini zao na zilichukuliwa na wananchi, Watanzania ambao ni jumiya ya kila imani... hakuna rangi. Ukitaka zaidi tunaweza sema ni dini hizi hizi zilizochukua uhuru wetu kwa kupandikiza mbegu zao na dini ni moja wapo hali wakiiba mali zetu. Dini zilitumiwa na wakoloni kutupa ruzuku ya mali waliyoiba kama anavyofanya Barricks leo hii. Anajenga shule mbili na visima vya maji leo Mmarekani sijui Mcanada ni Mungu wa dunia na anadai anatusaidia.
    Pili, Ulisema wahindi hawakusoma bali biashara sijui mwenzetu makuzi yako yalikuwa wapi. Idadi kubwa ya wanafunzi ktk shule za kulipia walikuwa watoto wa kihindi. Mhindi yeyote aliyesoma shule ya serikali basi huo ni mhindi mswahili wa gerezani, Kariakoo.
     
  16. I

    Interested Observer JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Jul 8, 2006
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    The greatest sins of our times! Dini Dini Dini, imagine yourself without religion! We all inherited from our fathers and forefathers and we are haunted! Rais JKN aliwasaidia watu wote wasome, ali-create nafasi kwa watu wote. Na wale walio-respond ndiyo waliosoma.

    Sasa hivi tushaanza kuona nyufa ambazo zinatugawa watu kwa dini. Hivi waht would be the difference kama Augustine ungekuwa muislam, au Mkandara ungekuwa mkristu (sorry), suala hapa mie nilikuwa nafikiri wale ambao wamekuwa na elimu kubwa wanaweza kuepuka mgawanyo kwenye dini. Hata historia yetu inaonyesha kuwa matatizo yetu yalikuwa ni ukabila na siyo dini.

    Tusizidefend dini zetu katika discussion kama hizi, hii inaonyesha wazi kabisa tulivyokuwa watumwa wa hizo dini. Kama kweli rais alichagua hawa watu kutokana na dini, basi ana uwezo mdogo wa kufikiri, lakini kama hao watu aliowachagua ni qualified that is fine.

    Halafu kingine, katika ubishani kama huu, mtu anayekuwa defensive hutaka ku-counter-balance point ya mwingine kwa mifano ambayo ni irrelevant, kwa mfano: What is the issue here, Moshi unasema JKN alitaifisha shule za wakristu, Mkandara unakuja kucounter na kuwa Je zile shule za wahindi ? Hapa mie nafikiri mngechukulia tu nia ya nyerere ilikuwa watanzania tusome.

    Suala jingine ambalo huwa linanitatiza sana ni lile la kumtetea Rais, na kumtenganisha na society kwa muda ule. Kama zama za rais kikundi cha watu fulani kinafanya fujo kutokana na advantage ya sitting president, is true that yule president ni 100 percent responsible.
     
  17. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #17
    Jul 8, 2006
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    IO,
    Shukran kwa ushauri wako, nadhani nia kubwa ya maelezo yangu sio ku-defend waislaam isipokuwa kueleza kwa kina makusudio ya JKN. Bila mifano kama hii kuna watu ambao hawaoni mbali, kwani mtu akisha sema JKN alitaifisha shule za wakristu kwa sababu ya waislaam. Sidhani kama kuna lugha nyepesi ya ku deny hoja hiyo. Ukisema hii sio kweli ila kwa sababu Watanzania wote wapate kusoma bado utakuwa umeacha pengo kubwa, point itakuwa na upungufu. Lakini unapotoa mfano mwingine kama huo wa wahindi! mtu hujiuliza na kupata the truth. kweli wahindi nao walitaifishwa shule zao, sio uongo na nini yalikuwa makussudio ya JKN ikiwa za mkoloni ni kwa sababu ya waislaam.
    Pili, maelezo yangu yote ni kujaribu kuwapa mwanga Watanzania wenzangu waondokane na hii habari za dini kwani zote zilikuja na athari zake.
    Nathubutu kusema kwamba shule za waarabu zote Unguja zilikuwa na athari kubwa ya kueneza tamaduni zao ikiwa ni pamoja na dini yao - Uislaam. Nimeupokea Uislaam kama elimu na hata siku moja siwezi kusimama na kuwatetea waarabu ati kwa sababu ni waislaam bila kujali truth ya matukio yenyewe. Udini ni pale mtu anapotumia dini kuwa kitenganisho chake na mtu mwingine kuleta tofauti baina yao.

    Interested Observer,
    Nadhani hii sio mara yako ya kwanza kusikia hotuba ya- Slave master Muingereza akijulikana kwa jina William Lynch. Huyu mzungu alikuja Marekani kutoka visiwani kuwapa mbinu za ku-control watumwa baada ya wazungu Wamarekani kushindwa kuwa -control watumwa. Hii ni miaka 300 iliyopita lakini hadi leo hotuba bado inaendelea kwa kuchukua mkondo mpya. -DINI.
    Nitaiweka hapa kwa kiingereza na isomeni kwa makini kisha jitazameni tumesimama wapi? - kumbuka hata neno Lynching yaani kunyonga kwa kuning'inizwa limetokana na jina lake. Mbaya kuliko yote mtu huyu katumia dini kwa faida yake na hii inamuondoa kabisa mtu huyu ktk Ukristu.
    Alisema:-
    "Gentlemen, I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies where I have experimented with some of the newest and still the oldest methods of control of slaves.
    Ancient Rome would envy us if my program were implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish. I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of woods as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers you are here using the tree and the rope on occasion.
    I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree a couple of miles back. You are not only losing a valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed.
    Gentlemen, you know what your problems are: I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I have a fool proof method for controlling your Black slaves. I guarantee everyone of you that if installed correctly it will control the slaves for at least 300 hundred years. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your oversee r can use it.
    I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves: and I take these differences and make them bigger. I use fear, distrust, and envy for control purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences, and think about them.
    On top of my list is "Age", but it is there only because it starts with an "A": the second is "Color" or shade, there is intelligence, size, sex, size of plantations, status on plantation, attitude of owners, whether the slave live in the valley, on hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, coarse hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences. I shall give you an outline of action-but before that I shall assure you that distrust is stronger than trust and envy is stronger than adulation, respect, or admiration.
    The Black slave after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self re-fueling and self generating for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. Don't forget you must pitch the old Black male vs. the young Black male, and the young Black male against the old Black male. You must use the dark skin slaves vs. the light skin slaves and the light skin slaves vs. the dark skin slaves. You must use the female vs. the male, and the male vs. the female. You must also have your white servants and overseers distrust all Blacks, but it is necessary that your slaves trust and depend on us. They must love, respect and trust only us.
    Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. If used intensely for one year, the slaves themselves will remain perpetually distrustful. Thank you, gentlemen."
     
  18. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Jul 8, 2006
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    Mkandara

    Baada ya hiyo quote, napenda kusema hivi, Mwenye macho haambiwi tazama, na mwenye masikio ya kusikia asikie, mwenye kujua kusoma na kuelewa na asome na kuelewa.

    Ni kweli naziona hizi elements za utenganishi miongoni mwa jamii zetu alizozisema huyu bwana, na hawa jamaa wanaendelea kufanikiwa kutunyonya kupitia "umbumbumbu" wetu.

    Wanabodi
    Ni muhimu kujadili mambo yatakayo tukomboa toka kwenye lindi hili la umaskini. Lets keep our serikali busy kusoma na kutafakari haya tunayoyaandika humu bodini, kwani mambo muhimu mengi tuliyokuwa tunayajadili BCSTIMES e.g. Mwanakijiji na mapendekezo yake ya Polisi kuwa na zones yameshaanza kufikiriwa na kujaribiwa Dar, tulisema sana mambo ya mikataba isiyotunufaisha JK alipoingia tu, akaanza kwa kusema ataiangalia upya nk nk.
     
  19. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Jul 9, 2006
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    Nawashukuru kwa michango yenu. Naomba nitoe mawazo kuhusu msemo uliotumiwa na wengi kwamba kama hao waliochaguliwa wana uwezo wa kufanya hizo kazi, basi hakuna neno.

    Ndugu zangu, Rais anapochagua mawaziri, mabalozi na viongozi wengine wa nafasi za kisiasa, hapashwi kuangalia uwezo peke yake. Ni lazima aangalie vile vile uwiano wa kijiografia, kidini na kijinsia.

    Wako wananchi 60 toka Mkoa wa Kagera wenye uwezo mkubwa wa kujaza nafasi zote 60 za mawaziri wa JK. Huwezi kusema ingekuwa sawa kama JK angejaza nafasi zote kwa kuwateua tu hao ndugu zetu wa Kagera. Lazima adumishe uwiano wa kijiografia.

    Wako kina baba Watanzania wenye uwezo mzuri na wa kutosha kujaza nafasi zote za ubunge na uwaziri. Huwezi kusema ingekubalika wabunge wote na mawaziri wote wawe kina baba. Lazima kuwe na uwiano wa kijinsia.

    Ningeweza kutoa mifano zaidi lakini hakuna sababu. Hata hivi nimerudia yale ambayo nimeyaandika huko nyuma, kwani naona kama kuna watu hawajaelewa hii hoja ya uwiano mzuri katika kujaza nafasi za kisiasa.

    Rais Kikwete amekiuka hiyo haja ya kudumisha uwiano mzuri wa kidini katika teuzi zake. Lazima tuseme hivyo, kwa sababu ni kweli. Waswahili husema: Anayeficha ugonjwa kifo kitamsema. Kuacha kudumisha uwiano mzuri katika teuzi za kisiasa ni kuhatarisha usalama wa taifa.

    Point ya Makandara kuhusu utaifishaji wa shule za Kihindi haina uzito wo wote. Ilibidi Mwalimu ataifishe shule zote binafsi. Kisiasa, haingewezekana ataifishe za Wakristu peke yao. Shule chache sana zilikuwa za Wahindi, nyingine chache zilikuwa za Waislamu, na asilimia kubwa zilikuwa mali ya Wakristu.

    Mkandara, unadhani ni slave master yupi anatutumia sisi? Most of us here are beyond the reach of any slave masters. It is not possible to manipulate us. Do not try to blame external enemies. Tatizo limeletwa na JK kukosa busara ya kuangalia uwiano mzuri kwenye teuzi zake. There are no slave master around this issue. Perhaps you are simply trying to divert attention from the real issue. You will not succeed, because I will not let you.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  20. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #20
    Jul 9, 2006
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    Augustine Moshi,
    Unaposhindwa kuelewa maana ni vigumu sana kwangu kuendelea kukueleza kitu, hasa napozungumza na msomi kama wewe ambaye huna tofauti na wasomi wengine ambao kila walionalo wao ndio Ukweli.

    Umesema kwamba:- Wako wananchi 60 toka Mkoa wa Kagera wenye uwezo mkubwa wa kujaza nafasi zote 60 za mawaziri wa JK. Huwezi kusema ingekuwa sawa kama JK angejaza nafasi zote kwa kuwateua tu hao ndugu zetu wa Kagera. Lazima adumishe uwiano wa kijiografia.

    Sijui kabisa unachozungumza hapa kuhusiana na swala la Udini kwa sababu sio nafasi 60 zilizopo ktk uongozi wa CCM au Mabalozi na wote wamekamata Waislaam. Tatizo lenu ni nafasi sita tu ktk uongozi wa CCM kuwepo watu wenye majina ya kiislaam. Hali sijaona mkilaumu kuwepo na mwanamke mmoja tu na hakuna Mkerewe wala Msumbwa. Hakuna uwiano wowote wa kimakabila, kidini wala jinsia unaotangulia uwezo wa mtumishi kwa nchi isiyokuwa na ubaguzi huo. Isipokuwa ile yenye ubaguzi ndio huwa na tofauti hizo kwani UWEZO wa wale wanaobaguliwa huwa chini. Wanawake walibaguliwa sio tu kwa kutopewa nafasi isipokuwa chanzo chake ni kunyimwa elimu ya kuwawezesha kuzifanya kazi hizo. Ubaguzi sio swala dogo mshikaji na labda hujaona ubaguzi wala ku-experience ubaguzi.
    Swala hili hatuna Tanzania. Wakristu na Waislaam haijawa issue hata siku moja nchini na ndio maelezo yangu ya mwanzo.
    Kuhusu swala la Watumwa pia umeshindwa kuoanisha issue hiyo na watu kama nyie ambao mnatumiwa kugawanisha watu na hizo DINI zenu. Hapa sii lazima asimame William Cynch isipokuwa huyo mchungaji ama sheikh anayewapa vijisababu kama hivi ndiye mwamshaji wa cheche hizo na ni jukumu lako wewe kama Mtanzania kuangalia athari za kuendekeza upuuzi huu wa Udini.
    Ikiwa wewe unasubiri mpaka Yesu atokee ili uweze kuamini biblia ati kwa sababu biblia imeandika mambo ya Asia ya kati na Warumi basi ipo kazi kubwa kukufundisha hata dini yako.
     
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