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Wapinzani wa Bongo wajifunze nini toka siasa ya Kenya?

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by mstahiki, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. m

    mstahiki JF-Expert Member

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    Ili waweze kuondoa CCM Madarakani.
     
  2. K

    Kalamu JF-Expert Member

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    Mstahiki:
    Waanze na vitu mhimu vya msingi kabisa katika kuleta mabadiliko.
    Kwa mfano: Kama kuna mambo yanayowawezesha CCM kuendelea kuwa katika utawala ni mhimu kabisa wapinzani wayaangalie kwa makini kabisa na waanze kampeni kubwa ya kuyaondosha. Kama mambo hayo yamo katika katiba, basi katiba ifanyiwe marekebisho au ibadilishwe kabisa kama inalazimu.

    Wapinzani waache kuendelea kuwalaumu tu wananchi kwa kutowachagua wao. Ni mhimu wajiulize, ni kwa nini wao hawachaguliwi. Kuna mambo mengi sana sasa hivi yanayofanywa na CCM ambayo hayawapendezi wananchi, na wengine hawayajui. Ni jukumu la vyama vya upinzani kuwafikishia wananchi mambo hayo.

    Bahati waliyo nayo wapinzani wa Kenya, kwa Tanzania hiyo bahati haipo katika baadhi ya mambo hayo. Kwa mfano: Ukabila na kuwa na kabila moja linaloonekana kufaidi zaidi ya mengine. Kama isingekuwa kujiunga kwa Raila, Mudavadi, Ruto, Balala, Nyaga na Ngilu, na kuyategemea makabila yao kuwaunga mkono, ODM isingeweza kuwa na nguvu inazozionyesha hadi sasa.

    Tusisahau pia kuwa KANU, hakikuwa chama kilichokuwa kinatetea haki za mwananchi wa kawaida, kama ilivyokuwa CCM kabla hakijawa chama cha mafisadi. Kwa hiyo wakenya wengi walikuwa wanakiona chama cha kanu kama cha kionevu; tofauti kabisa na CCM ya hapo zamani, iliyokuwa inaonekana kupigania haki ya mwananchi wa kawaida. WaTanzania walizoea hivyo kwa muda mrefu, inahitaji pia muda kuwafumbua macho kuwa CCM ya Kawawa ni tofauti kabisa na CCM ya Makamba.

    Mwananchi wa Kenya amezoea mfumo wa kuonewa/kunyanyaswa kwa muda mrefu. Anapoona nafasi hii ya upinzani kujikomboa, ni lazima akubali.

    Wapinzani wa Tanzania ni lazima wawe na subira na wafanye juhudi zaidi; na hasa sasa kwa kutumia mfano huu wa mabadiliko huko Kenya kuwavutia wananchi.
     
  3. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Wajifunze kwamba wasimamizi wa uchaguzi hasa wa kutoka nje ya nchi (wale wa ndani wanaweza wakanunuliwa) siyo tu waangalie ushiriki wa wapigaji kura unavyoendeshwa katika vituo mbali mbali bila dosari yoyote, bali pia wawepo katika kuhesabu kura mpaka matokeo yatangazwe. Hili ni gumu sana maana chama twawala kitafanya kila miujiza ili matokeo yasitangazwe siku ya upigaji kura (wasimamizi itabidi waende kupumzika) na wakishafanikiwa hilo basi watafanikiwa kuiba uchaguzi.
     
  4. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Kenyan count halted amid unrest

    The delay in vote results has sparked disorder on the streets
    Kenya's knife-edge election count has been halted amid chaotic scenes at the offices of the electoral commission.
    There were scuffles at the counting centre in Nairobi as party rivals demanded recounts of Thursday's vote. Officials suspended the count until Sunday. The delays have already sparked violence and looting across Kenya, with at least three deaths reported.

    Latest figures suggest that President Mwai Kibaki is now neck and neck with his opponent Raila Odinga.

    The European Union's election observer, Alexander Lambsdorff, said there was a massive question mark over the tallying of votes. While the presidential candidates are neck-and-neck, the election has seen a clear rejection of Mr Kibaki's government, with about 20 ministers losing their seats. With almost 90% of votes tallied in 180 out of a total 210 constituencies, the Electoral Commission gave Mr Odinga 3.88m votes to Mr Kibaki's 3.84m.

    Roadblocks and bonfires

    Mr Odinga of the Orange Democratic Movement had held the lead since vote counting began, but he has since seen his advantage evaporate. We are Kenyans, not beasts Samuel Kivuitu
    Election chair Chaotic scenes erupted at the count in Nairobi on Saturday afternoon, when election chair Samuel Kivuitu announced results that largely cancelled out much of Mr Odinga's lead. As rival party agents clashed, paramilitary police had to rush in and restore order.

    Mr Kivuitu told politicians: "Nobody can push me, not even you!" He added: "We are Kenyans, not beasts." The BBC's Karen Allen in Nairobi says Mr Kivuitu has outlined a number of electoral irregularities that have dogged the process. These include returning officers vanishing due to intimidation and a case in one constituency of turnout being higher than the number of registered voters. Mr Kibaki's Party of National Unity said it would wait for the official results, and urged officials to speed up the count.

    Kibaki: Dream or nightmare? Odinga: King-maker
    Both sides have raised allegations of vote rigging and rioting has broken out in some opposition strongholds. There were also reports of trouble in Kisumu, Bungoma, Busia, Eldoret, Kericho and Kakamega. Police have fired tear gas and gunshots into the air to disperse angry demonstrators who lit bonfires, set up roadblocks and even burned down homes. Several people have died in the violence, including a man shot dead in a row at a polling station in western Nyanza province, police said.

    "They want to steal votes. They are counting votes from regions favouring Kibaki and then they want to declare him the winner," said one protester, Peter Oduor. Ethnic violence Much of the violence was enacted along ethnic lines, with Luo supporters of Mr Odinga clashing with members of Mr Kibaki's Kikuyu tribe. An Electoral Commission spokesman told the BBC that turnout had perhaps been more than 70%, from an electorate of 14m. Results so far show a majority of MPs have lost their seats. Kenyan parliamentarians gained notoriety in the past five years for arbitrarily increasing their salaries and allowances, while a majority of Kenyans continued to grapple with meagre wages and a high cost of living. Vice-President Moody Awori was one of about 20 ministers who lost their seats. The vote also saw three sons of retired president Daniel Arap Moi lose their seats in three different constituencies in the Rift Valley province.

    Mr Moi has helped fund Mr Kibaki's campaign. If he loses, Mr Kibaki, who came to power with a landslide victory in 2002, will be Kenya's first sitting president ousted at the ballot box.
     
  5. Nzokanhyilu

    Nzokanhyilu JF-Expert Member

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    Tofauti ni mentality ya WaKenya na WaTanzania. Ukweli ni kwamba, wakenya wako mbele kutuzidi kuliko waTanzania, hasahasa kujua rights zao. Ujamaa umetupooza, watanzania ni wazito period. Kwahiyo, kazi ni wapinzani wafanye kazi katika grassroots....na hapo wanahitaji billions of BOT's (lol) dollars. Other than that, dream on.

    Ningependa kuchukua nafasi hii kumpa pole mzee FMES na wafuasi wake waliokuwa wakimsifia fisadi Moi na political strategy zake. Watoto wake wametupwa nje. Na Kibaki akishinda, ni wazi kwamba ataiba kura. Tofauti ni kwamba, waKenya wametuzidi mambo mengi, wako open kubadilika. Sisi wabongo ni wazito. Kama hatuwezi kufaidika na utajiri wetu, au kuleta mabadiliko ni ujinga wetu. Watu watabaki kutoa ma-speech humu kama Nyerere, ukweli ni kwamba, tuko nyuma sana.
     
  6. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Quote:-

    "Na Kibaki akishinda, ni wazi kwamba ataiba kura."

    Very Tanzanian thinking, wakishinda upinzani then what mkuu? Watakuwa wameshinda kwa halali?
     
  7. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu ES,

    Hapa kuna tofauti, rais ambaye karibu baraza lake lote la mawaziri limeangushwa, amepoteza majority ya wabunge, hawezi kushinda kihalali hata siku moja.

    Kama rais anapendwa hukisaidia pia chama chake kupata kura japo za kuridhisha.

    Hili balaa la kuiba kura afrika ni zaidi ya ufisadi, inatakiwa tulikomeshe kwanza. Mtu anayeiba kura atashindwa kuiba pesa ili kuwazawadia hao marafiki wanaomwibia kura?
     
  8. Chakaza

    Chakaza JF-Expert Member

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    You are right Mtanzania,Ni jambo la ajabu sana Kwa wananchi eti kutokuwa na imani na mawaziri (zaidi ya nusu)pamoja na wabunge wao na kuwanyima kura, kisha kuwa na Imani na Rais na kummiminia kura za kutosha.
     
  9. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Mzarau mwiba humchoma.
     
  10. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    Tunajifunza mengi kwa kweli. Cha muhimu kabisa ni kwamba lazima tutoke tusambae nchi nzima kwa ajili ya kuwahamasisha wananchi dhidi ya madhira ya CCM na alternative solution tulizo nazo sisi. Yaani, tutoe shule kuwaelimisha wananchi uhusiano uliopo kati ya shida zao (umaskini, etc) na kuendelea kuichagua CCM na jinsi gani upinzani utaweza kufanya tofauti. Hii ndio wameshaanza kufanya Mhe Zitto na wenzake. Kilichompa Zitto umaarufu sio kingine bali kuongea jambo ambalo liliwagusa wananchi moja kwa moja kwa kuwaonyesha wananchi kuwa nyie ni maskini kwa sababu utajiri wenu unauzwa na akina Karamag kule London! Sasa inabidi twende mbele zaidi na kuwaambia wananchi ni jinsi gani kuuzwa kwao utajiri nje ya nchi kutakoma kwa kuchagua upinzani. Tukiishie kuonyesha tu kwamba utajiri wenu unauzwa bila kuwaambia opposition utawezaje kukomesha wizi huu tutakuwa hatuna tofauti na pressure groups zingine kama NGOs! Hii lazima ifanyike kwa njia zote kuanzia mikutano ya hadhara, vipeperushi, ICT,etc na tuwafikie watanzania waliopo ndani na nje ya nchi.

    Hata hivyo naogopa kusema kwamba kazi hii haiwezi kufanywa na wapinzani pekee na hakuna sehemu ambazo upinzani ulifanya pekee wakafanikiwa bila ushiriki wa makundi mengine. Kwa hiyo ni muhimu sana taasisi zingine Tanzania kama NGOs, dini, wanaharakati, n.k. ziungane na opposition katika kuwaelimisha wananchi on a sustainable basis. So far taasisi nyingi za TZ (NGOs, etc) ama zipo upande wa CCM au zimeamua kuwa lukewarm kwa banner ya non-political. Ni lazima wananchi pia wawaunge mkono wapinzani pale wanapofanya vizuri na kuonyesha juhudi, hamna kitu kinachokatisha tamaa kwa mwanasiasa kama kufanya kila juhudi halafu asiungwe mkono. Kwa mfano ile issue ya mbunge wa zamani wa Mwibara kufanya juhudi zote zile za maendeleo hadi kuachia pension yake kwa kujenga mahospitali halafu leo wananchi wanamchagua mgombea wa CCM inakatisha tamaa sana sana!

    Mwisho kwa sasa, lazima tukubali kwamba lazima kujenga msingi wa ufuasi (support base). Kwa mfano Kenya msingi wa ufuasi wa kisiasa ni ukabila (bad as may sound-lakini ndio ukweli). Msingi wa ufuasi wa CCM miaka ya nyuma ilkuwa ni wakulima na wafanyakazi ambao kwa kiasi kukubwa wameupoteza sana sasa hivi. Sasa sisi opposition lazima ifike mahala tu-identify msingi wa ufuasi wa vyama vyetu-is it wafanyakazi, wakulima, unemployed, youth, walimu or what? Kuna makundi mengi sana Tanzania ambayo yametelekezwa kama vile: walimu, mdaktari, ma-nurse, vijana wasio na ajira, wakulima wadogowadogo, ifike mahala haya makundi yaone kwamba utatuzi wa matatizo yao ni kuchagua opposition. Yaani watambue kabisa kwamba matatizo yao hayatakwisha hadi pale watakapochagua opposition. Ili tuwafikishe hapa lazima tuibuke na sera zinazowalenga wao moja kwa moja then tufanye strategic move za ku-reach out wao. Hii maanake ni kuwa pamoja na mikutano ya jumla ya hadhara, itabidi ku-organise strategic forums na makundi mbalimbali na kuwauzia strategic policies na kuomba support yao moja kwa moja. Hii itawafanya sio tu waone kwamba opposition inawajali bali pia wao pia ni wamiliki wa hivyo vyama.

    Tunapojadili mafunzo tunayopata Kenya tusisahau kwamba upinzani Kenya ulianza kushinda tangu kwenye uchaguzi wa mwanzo kabisa wa vyama vingi wa 1992. Practically, tangu kuanza kwa mfumo wa vyama vingi Kenya, TANU ilikuwa haijawahi kushinda au kwa maneno mengine upinzani ulikuwa haujawahi kushindwa! Kilichokosekana awali ni muungano wao, maana siku zote ulikuwa ukijumlisha kura za upinzani zilikuwa zinazidi zile za Moi by far lakini at the end of the day Moi akafanikiwa kuwanunua wabunge wa upinzani kwa wingi.
     
  11. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    wapinzani wanahitaji watu wapiga domo/aggressive/smart wanaojua issue na pesa za kampeni za kushindana na CCM na wawe makini kuangalia kura haziibiwi maana tunajua na wala sio siri foul play kwenye vote counting ndio imewaweka CCM wengi madarakani...kwani hamjui Sharif hamad alishinda zanzibar 1995? then fight mfumo mzima wa tume ya uchaguzi maana ni kichekesho tuu hii ya sasa maana wanaweza kumpa ushindi yeyote wakiamua
     
  12. e

    eddy JF-Expert Member

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    Ni Kibaki huyu tulimwona shujaa kwa kumgaragaza Uhuru Kenyatta, akafanyiwa tafrija hadi ikulu ya marekani! leo hii damu ya wakenya inamwagika kuliko hata ya kumtoa mwingereza. Hata kama atashinda gharama yake sivyo ilivyostahili. Ilikuwa shughuli kumtoa mrema nccr pale Tanga, angekuwa ikulu ingekuwaje?

    Jamani tusimwondoe Dr.Kaunda na kumweka chiluba tukaona tumewini. Wanaoishi ulaya kwa posho za UNHCR acha wakae huko, wakizeeka waje tu. Tunao political newcomers kama Laurence Masha, Dr.David Mathayo, Zitto, Freeman Mbowe wanagombea na kushinda.
     
  13. e

    eddy JF-Expert Member

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    Zitto amesema anaweza asigombee ili apate muda wa kujiendeleza kitaaluma, hizi ndio siasa zinazohitajika, sasa wengine jitokezeni mpokee kijiti cha zitto tuendeleze riadha ya siasa, ili tusijenge tabaka la wakoloni weusi wanaosubiri kipigo kama samwel doe.

    Kuna wazee wenye busara kama dr.malecela na Edwin Mtei waliosema sasa tupumzike. Heshima zao ndani na nje ya nchi zimenawiri zaidi.
     
  14. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Maajabu ya Firaun karibu yanatimia!...
    Kama mtakumbuka niliuliza swali hili mwaka juzi ktk uchaguzi wetu ikiwa rais anaweza ongoza nchi yenye Wabunge toka Upinzani!.. sikupata jibu na leo hii tunaona yakijitokeza huko Kenya. Tusiseme haiwezekani kabisa rais kuwa Popular kuliko baraza lake la mawaziri, hii inawezekana kabisa na ndio maana zikawekwa tofauti za chaguzi kati ya wabunge na rais kwa kutumia mifumo miwili tofauti. Tutashangaa mengi lakini je, is it possible?... jibu ni Yap!

    Navyofahamu mimi njia pekee ya kuondoa maajabu haya ya Firaun ni kutumia kura za viti vya wabunge kumteua rais wa nchi... Hilo swala la Popular litumike within Vyama vyenyewe!...
     
  15. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Mtanzania,

    Heshima mbele, Bill Clinton alishinda urais, lakini wananchi wakasema Republican ndio wanaofaa kushika Congress na wakawachagua, kwa hiyo mawaziri wote wa Kibaki, wanaweza kushindwa lakini Kibaki, akashinda kama rais aliyekuwa amezungukwa na wahuni, sisemi ndivyo ilivyo lakini ninakuwa na open mind maana siasa hazina guarantees,

    Kuhusu uchaguzi mzima wa Kenya, no question kuhusu uelewa mkubwa wa siasa wa wa-Kenya, kuliko sisi wa-Tanzania, lakini pia the fact kwamba ukabila ndio dhana kubwa ya siasa zao inakuwa ngumu sana kuelewa siasa za Kenya, kwa sababu sio siri kwamba the political na bureaucratic system ya Kenya, ni dominated na the Kikuyus, which makes ushindi wa Odinga, kuwa na matatizo makubwa kwenye kutawala,

    Odinga, is he a true opposition kama Chadema? I am not sure, Moi alipaswa kuwa adui na Kibaki, lakini leo tunaambiwa ndiye aliyei-fund kampeni ya Kibaki, I mean this is too much of a confusion kwa wananchi wanaotaka mabadiliko ya kweli, lakini haiondoi ukweli kwamba the Kenyans wako advanced kwa uelewo wa siasa kuliko sisi, tatizo lao kubwa linalotufanya tuwe na nafuu kuliko wao at the end of the day, ni siasa zao za kikabila, ambazo kwa kweli sisi Tanzania hatuwezi kujifunza anything from it, maana kwenye hiyo system unachohitaji ni kuwa Mluo, au Mkikuyu, basi kampoeni itajifanya yenyewe, sasa sisi wabongo tutajifunza nini?
     
  16. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

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    kwanini wewe unataka wenzio wajitokeze kwani wewe unafanya nini?
     
  17. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

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    Hapa umekosea mkuu, wamarekani walichagua congress ya republican miaka miwili baada ya clinton kuchaguliwa kuwa rais na kuleta upuuzi mwanzoni. Wamarekani pia wakamchagua tena clinton baada ya congress kuanza ujinga wao kwa kumchunguza clinton badala ya kufanya kazi. hili ni tofauti kabisa hapa. Kibaki ameshinda at the same time serikali yake ikikataliwa sehemu zote za kenya isipokuwa mkoa wake tu!

    Hapa pia umekosea, Raila amepigiwa kura na makabila zaidi ya 41 so hilo la ukabila halipo. Kuna wakikuyu wenyewe wanaongea kwenye tv kenya wakisema kuwa hata hizo kura kibaki ameshinda zimezidishwa maana sio wakikuyu wote wamemchagua kibaki

    kafuatilie tena uchaguzi wa kenya uone mengi hapa uliyosema yaweza yasiwe kweli.
     
  18. M

    Mwafrika JF-Expert Member

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    mulimuona shujaa na nani? kibaki alitumika kama conduit tu na makubaliano yalikuwa ni kuwa aunde prime minister position ili kupunguza nguvu yake na akakataa. wakenya wengi walijua hili na ndio maana miaka miwili tu baada ya kuwa rais akaanza kuchemsha hadi kupigwa chini kwenye referendum!

    Kama unataka kufananisha kaunda na tanzania unachemsha maana tanzania au kenya in this case haina viongozi wenye caliber ya kaunda. ccm ya nyerere na kawawa ndio ilikuwa inawajali wananchi na ndio ingefananishwa na kaunda lakini ccm yaleo ni kama ya idi amini.

    kwa hiyo choice hapa ni kati ya idi amini na chiluba na ukinipa hiyo choice basi nitachagua chiluba kuliko idi amini
     
  19. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa hiyo kimsingi mkuu unakubaliana na mimi kuwasio lazima mawaziri wa rais wachaguliwe na rais, inawezekana na rais akachaguliwa na mawaziri wake wakapigwa chini bila yakuiba kura, hiyo ndio iliyokuwa hoja yangu ya msingi, je tunakuabaliana kwenye hilo?
     
  20. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Quote:-

    "ccm yaleo ni kama ya idi amini."

    Whaaat? na wananchi wanaoichagua CCM ni kama kina nani mkuu?
     
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