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Wanafunzi wa Second Cohort, Law School: Tuhabarishane!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Sheria (The Law Forum)' started by Buchanan, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Katika Website ya Law School of Tanzania (www.lst.ac.tz), imeandikwa kama tangazo kwamba: "Transcripts and Progress Statements for the Second Cohort students can be obtained from the School's Offices upon request." Swali kwa wale waliochukua, Je, transcripts zenu zimeandikwa Postgraduate Diploma in Legal Practice au just certificate of attendance? Msingi wa swali langu ni kwamba nilisikia kwamba wakubwa wa LST (Law School of Tanzania) walikuwa na kigugumizi cha kutoa award ya PDLP (Post Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice) kwa kuwa eti hakuna Diploma inayoweza kusomwa kwa mwaka mmoja. Jambo jingine ambalo lilikuwa linaleta utata ni kuhusu wahitimu kupata u-Advocate baada ya kumaliza masomo ya mwaka mmoja. Je, wakubwa wa LST wanasemaje juu ya huo u-Advocate ambao umetamkwa kabisa ndani ya Law School of Tanzania Act, 2007, No. 18 of 2007? Unapatikana au wanaenda kinyume na Sheria ya nchi?
     
  2. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Hata mtu mwingine kama ana majibu naomba jamani.
     
  3. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Naona Lawyers bado hamjatembelea mitaa hii!
     
  4. nguvumali

    nguvumali JF Bronze Member

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    jamani wanasheris tuelimisheni juu ya hili
     
  5. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    [quote=nguvumali;735642]jamani wanasheris tuelimisheni juu ya hili[/quote]

    Majibu yapo wazi kwenye tovuti ya LST http://lst.ac.tz/about_us/establishment.php kuhusu hadhi ya hicho chombo kisheria:

    Napenda kunukuu majukumu yake kama inavyojibambulisha kimataifa :

    :eek:
    Majukumu tajwa hapo juu yamenukuliwa moja kwa moja kwenye kifungu Cha 5 Cha Sheria inayoanzisha chombo hicho, yaani The Law School of Tanzania Act No. 18 of 2007.

    SHERIA ya LST haifuti wala kurekebisha masharti kwenye Sheria ya Mawakili (Advocates Act Cap.341 R.E 2002) wala Sheria ya Chama cha Mawakili Tanganyika (Cap.307 R.E. 2002) kuhusu masharti ya kufuata ili kuwa wakili isipokuwa imeweka tu nyongeza katika kifungu cha 5 Sheria ya Mawakili (Advocates Act Cap.341 R.E 2002) kwa lengo la kuanzisha na kuitambua Sekretariate ya Kudumu (Permanent Secretariate) ya Baraza la Elimu la Sheria (CLE) lililoanzishwa kwa mujibu wa Sheria hiyo ya Mawakili kifungu cha 5A kwa ajili ya kusimamia elimu ya sheria.

    Sekretariate inayoanzishwa na kwa marekebisho yaliyofanywa na Sheria ya LST imepewa jukumu la kushughulikia pia mafunzo ya vitendo (Practical Legal Training) ya wanafunzi wa LST. "Parctical Legal Training inatafsiriwa kwenye sheria hiyo ya LST kitaalaumu kama ifuatavyo:




    Tafsiri hii haina neno "DIPLOMA", POST GRADUATE DIPL" wala "ADVOCATE"........

    Labda kama ipo vinginevyo, Hakuna kifungu chochote kwenye Sheria ya LST wala Sheria ya Mawakili (Advocates Act) sura ya 341 kinachotoa mamlaka kwa LST kutoa mafunzo ya Diploma ya Sheria au kuwapitisha wanafunzi wa wanaohitimu kwenye mafunzo ya vitendo chuoni hapo kuwa mawakili.

    Isipokuwa kama itarekebishwa vinginevyo, kwa sasa mafunzo ya Law school hayatofautiani na "internship program" iliyokuwa ikitolewa na Ofisi ya Mwanasheria Mkuu wa Serikali (AG) siku za nyuma kabla ya LST kuanza ambapo cheti chake kilitumika kama ushahidi kwa CLE kuthibitisha uelewa wa masuala ya sheria za nchi na utaratibu wa Mahakama kwa mwombaji wa uwakili (petitioner) wakati wa kuwasilisha maombi yake ya kuomba uwakili (petition) kwa CLE (Bar Examination).

    Mafunzo wanayotoa na LST ni tofauti kabsaaaaaa na diploma ya sheria ambayo kwa nchi kama UK kuna mfumo wa "Diploma in Legal Practice (DLP)" ambayo ni miaka miwili ya mafunzo ya vitendo kupitia vyuo vinavyotambulika na baadae unafanya majaribio ya taaluma "Professional Competence Course (PCC), and a Test of Professional Competence (TPC)"
     
  6. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Ndugu Ngoshwe naomba nitofautiane na wewe kwenye quote niliyoiweka hapo juu hasa maelezo in red:
    1. Kulingana na Kifungu cha 12 (2) cha The Law School of Tanzania Act, 2007, No. 18 of 2007 mwanafunzi akimaliza anatakiwa apate PGDLP (Post Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice) ambacho kinasomeka kama ifuatavyo: "A Student who completes the programme referred to under subsection (1) shall be awarded Post Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice."
    2. Kifungu cha 12 (3) kinazungumzia juu ya u-Advocate: "The Post Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice issued by the School shall, upon clearance by the Chief Justice, qualify and entitle the holder to practice as an advocate of the High Court and courts subordinate thereto or employment in the public service."
    3. Sheria ya Mawakili (Advocates Act, Cap. 341, R.E.2002) haijaifuta wala kufutwa na Sheria ya LST, kwa hiyo kila sheria ina-operate kivyake. Sasa sioni kwa nini wahitimu wa LST wasipewe PGDLP pamoja na Uwakili kama Sheria iliyoanzisha LST inavyotaka.
     
  7. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Learned bros and sistas naomba michango yenu please! Ushauri: Kuelewa hoja kabla ya kuijibu ni muhimu sana! Pia kufanya utafiti ni muhimu sana kabla ya kujibu hoja!
     
  8. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Haka kajukwaa ketu ka Sheria naona kana wachangiaji wachache sana, especially kwenye thread hii, ingekuwa mambo ya mahusiano (mapenzi in paricular), siasa, udaku, etc, post zingefika mia kidogo! Labda kwa kuwa jambo lenyewe haliwahusu watu wengi au?
     
  9. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    Buchanan, I stand to be corrected!.

    Nakubaliana nawe kabisa, ila inaonekana mleta hoja anazungumzia PG Diploma ya mwaka mmoja. Hiyo haiwezekana kwani kifungu cha 12(1) cha sheria ya LST kinasema:

    "12(1) The Practical Legal Training requirement for the purpose of this Act shall be a completion of a programme of study at school for a period of not less than one year".(EMPHASIS SUPPLIED)

    Note: Kifungu hiki cha 12(1) hakibainishi muda halisi wa ukomo (maximum period) wa mafunzo ya kumwezesha mhitimu kupata PDLP. Kwa hiyo yaweza kuwa hata miaka mitano etc.

    Aidha, kwa nukuu ya kifungu kidogo cha (3), ni kwamba kuwa wakili ni lazima CJ aridhie hicho PGDP iliyotolewa na LST. Hata hivyo, labda kama ipo vinginevyo, sijaona ndani ya sheria ya LST utaratibu wowote wa kumwezesha mhitimu wa LST kuwasilisha amobi yake kwa CJ ili aweza kupatiwa uwakili kama ilivyo sasa kwa sheria ya Mawakili ambapo unafanya "Petition" kwa Council for Legal Education(CLE).
     
  10. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Ni kweli kwamba ni lazima CJ aridhie, na kuhusu utaratibu mimi nafikiri utaratibu uliopo hauna tofauti na ule wa CLE kwa sababu kuna written and oral exams ambazo zinafanana na ule utaratibu wa petition! Whatever the case, hata kama utaratibu hautakuwa exactly the same, at least wakubwa wa LST wangesema something kuliko nothing! Alternatively, LST Act, 2007 irekebishwe kama hawaipendi kuliko kwenda kinyume nayo kama wanavyofanya sasa!
     
  11. K

    Kibori Member

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    Buchanan hope you are learned friend ! kwanza nikupongeze kwa majibu mazuri kuhusu hoja alizozitoa ndugu yetu hapo juu ! He must have misdirected himself to the correct interpretation of the law.

    Majibu yako kwa maana ya Sheria N0.18 2007 " The Law School Act" you correctly pointed out what the law states as its stands However I am afraid kunamabadiliko ya sheria hii ambayo hata mimi kwa muda sasa nimekuwa nikifuatilia lakini sijafanikiwa kupata . If you get hold of this allegedly Amendments do not hesitate to post here .

    I have great interest in this issue too.
     
  12. K

    Kibori Member

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    Learned Friends ! Poleni sana na mkanganyiko wa Law School of Tanzania . Kimisingi hapa sio Muda wa kusoma PGD kama iliyobainishwa na sheria ila ni ukiritimba tu. Sheria hii ipo wazi kabisa kuhusu mambo yafuatayo,

    1. PDG baade ya kuhitimu na kufaulu

    2. Certificate of Practice baada ya Kuridhiwa na Jaji Mkuu ambavyo kila Wakili lazima afanyehivyo wasiotatizo pila imeonyeshwa na sheria matatizo yaliopo ni kama yafuatavyo;

    A. Siasa ni nyingi sana zimetawaka kuanzishwa kwa shule kuliko ukweli wa mambo wenyewe kwa lugha kali kidogo mniradhi walikurupuka kuanzisha bila kuangalia uhalisia wa mambo . Mfano huwezi kumtunga sheria ambayo inamlazimisha kila mwanafunzi aliyehitimu sheria kwenda law school bila kujua kwamba kimsingi wote hao wanahitaji kuwa Mawakili Pili, huwezi kuwa na sheria ambao imeweka wazi kwamba kama mwanafunzi hajenda law school hawaize kuajiria in fact kwa lugha nyepesi nikama huyo mwanafunzi hajamaliza LLB yake ( Incomplete)

    2. Mawakili wengi wanapinga hiki chuo simply because they think kuwa ni Short Cut wakilinganisha process ya zamani kwahiyo ni dhahiri kati wa kundi linalopinga na kupiga madogo katika zoezi zima la kukwamisha hili lisitokee wapo Waheshimiwa Mawakili .

    3. Kama Sheria hii kwa tafsiri ya jinsi ilivyo, remember it presumes that LLB is incomplete if a persons fails to attend ok suppose , I attend, then fail law school yaani discontinuation what happens with my LLB, ndio kigugumizi kingine kilipo, that some students have failed and therefore difficult to derecognize LLB zao wakati sheria imeshaweka wazi kwa hawataweza kuaajiriwa .

    Nimesikia huenda sheria hii imesharekebishwa na huenda PGD na ulazima kwa kwenda shule kwa kila mwanafunzi wa sheria ni vipengele ambayo mimi nadhani zitakuwa zimerekebishwa na kufanya shule hii iwe na kwa wale ambao wanataka kuwa Mawakili .

    Baada ya kusema hao, nikupongeze Buchanan kwa majibu Mazuri uliyotoa kujibu hoja mbali mabli zilizotolewa hapo juu
     
  13. K

    Kibori Member

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    Kwanza hapa tusaidiane nimetembelea website ya bunge very recently lakini cha kushangaza sijaiona sheria hii lakini nilichoona ni The Public Services (Amendment) Act N0.18 2007. Sheria ya Law School ambao ilikuwa kwenye website ya Bunge imekwenda wapi na kwanini zipewesame namba katika kwa huo huo ? I think there is a confusion here please help
     
  14. K

    Kibori Member

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    Whenever I send an sms to this column haziendi tatizo ni nini ??? I have written quite a number of comments today but I am not seeing them posted !
    ?
     
  15. K

    Kibori Member

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    Ok nimeshaona shida iko wapi !
     
  16. K

    Kibori Member

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    Kazi kweli kweli na Tanzania yetu systems zetu hazifanya kazi ipasavyo ndio maana mambo hayaendi kama yalivyopangwa mfano issue ya Law School of Tanzania
     
  17. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    Ndg yangu Buchanan sina shaka upo LST. Pole sana kwa kushindwa kupatiwa ufumbuzi na menejimenti ya LST kuhusu mfumo wa kuwatambua waitimu wa kozi ya mwaka mmoja hapo..."

    Tuna matatizo mengi sana kwenye sheria za nchi yetu kuhusu taratibu mablimbali. Hiyo LST ilianzaishwa na imekuwa ikiafanya kazi kwa mfumo wa kuiga nchi nyingine za "common" law sytem. Hata hivyo, kwetu imekuwa kusuasua kwingi, hakuna mfumo mzuri wa kutoa mafunzo zaidi ya kuchuma fedha tu. sijui kama hicho chuo kina facilities za kutosha au bado kipo kwenye kipindi cha mpito.

    Kuna sheria zinatungwa katika nchi hii kwa majaribio ya watu fulani kutaka kujipatia umaarufu au "vijisenti". Wakati ule LLB ilikuwa ni miaka mitatu tu ukimaliza unapiga miezi sita internship kwa AG (japo hapakuwa na sheria) na hapo unaweza kupepetion faster kuwa wakili. Wengi wamenufaika na huo mfumo.

    Leo unasoma LLB miaka 4, ukimaliza uende tena LST kwa "undefined" years, kwa kitu hiyo inaitwa "legal practice"......Hapo tena uombe kwa CJ kupitishwa, may be anaweza asikupitishe,....Hakuna vigezo, na utartatibu haupo wazai kwenye sheria kwa sasa jinsi gani atakupitisha!. Invyoonekana, lutaratibu wa mafunzo yanayotolewa na LST ni kama ilivyokuwa "Extern" or "internship" hapo nyuma ambapo ilikuwa unasoma nadharia (LLB) kisha unaenda kujifunza kwa vitendo mahakamani, kwa AG na law firms kabla ya kuhitimu. Sijui kama kuna la ziada hapo au mabadiliko ya mfumo hapo LST labda ni sahihishwe!.
     
  18. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    Mzee, with due respect, marekebisho yamefanyika kwa "misdirection on point of law" baada ya kupata nakala ya sheria husika (attached). Marejeo yangu katika tovuti ya LST http://lst.ac.tz/about_us/objectives.php na http://lst.ac.tz/about_us/mission_vision.php (kwenye mission/objectives& functions), sikuweza kuona LST inataja kuhusika na jukumu la kutoa PGDL. kwa rejea hiyo hiyo nilibaini pia kuwa chuo kinajitambulisha kuwa kimeanzisha chini ya Sheria Na. 5 ya 2007 na majukumu yake yapo katika kifungu cha 5 cha sheria hiyo kama nilivyo nukuu:

    Baada ya Buchanan kunisahishisha, ndipo nimebaini kuwa tovuti ya LST "ili misdirect", na sheria husika ni heria Na. 18/2007 na sio Na. 15/2007 ambayo inatoa mamlaka ya LST kutoa PGDL kwa mujibu wa kifungu cha 12 na jukumu hilo halipo kwenye orodha ya majukumu kwenye kifungu kilichoweka majukum ya juma ya chuo (yaani kifungu cha 5).

    Hata hvyo, bado haieleweki "status" ya hiyo PGDL inayotolewa vs LLB na pia hakuna mfumo wazi wa jinsi gani hawa vijana wetu wanaohitimu hapo kwa "undefined years ya Diploma" wanaweza kuwasilisha maombi yao kwa CLE au CJ ili kupata uwakili.
     
  19. M-bongotz

    M-bongotz JF-Expert Member

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    Waungwana nimefuatilia kwa umakini mkubwa hoja mlizotoa wote hapo, mimi ni mmoja wa wanasheria wakiopitia law skul, nashukuru Mungu nilimaliza salama na sasa nasubiri kinachofuatia, kwa kuwa mimi mwenyewe ni mhanga wa hili, nimekuwa nikilifuatilia kwa karibu sana ikiwa ni pamoja na kuwasiliana na wakubwa wa hii shule mara kwa mara na wakuu wa TLS pia, ndugu zangu mambo yako hivi;

    1. Kinachotolewa baada ya kuhitimu Law Skul ni Postgraduate Diploma in Legal Practice, hii nawaambia kwa uhakika maana transcript yangu imeandikwa hivyo.

    2. Mswada wa kufanya mabadiliko ya The Law School Act bado haujaenda bungeni, for the time being wala msiumize vichwa kutafuta hiyo amendment, kiufupi ni kwamba haijapelekwa bado, so sheria inaendelea kusimama kama ilivyo na mapungufu yake hadi hapo amendments zitakapofanywa na Bunge....hatujui ni lini.

    3. Mara baada ya kuhitimu hiyo PGD unapetition kwa Chief Justice kwa ajili ya clearance, hiyo ni step ambayo hata wale wanaoenda kufanya Bar exam huwa wanaipitia, kwa hiyo ukifaulu mitihani ya law skul, status yako ni sawa na mtu aliyefaulu Bar exam anayesubiri kuitwa kwa CJ then aapishwe.

    Generally sioni msingi wa hoja kuwa eti law skul ni short cut ya kupata uwakili, ndugu zangu ile shule ni ngumu kuliko mtu anavyoweza kufikiri, wanaosema hivyo hawajaiexperience na si mnajua ukitaka kujua uhondo wa ngoma uingie uicheze?..

    Nakubali kuwa sheria ile kama ilivyo ina mapungufu makubwa sana na inataka marekebisho ya haraka sana ili kuokoa wale wasio na mpango wa kuisoma labda na wale watakaoisoma na kuwa-discontinued, otherwise kwa jinsi ilivyo inawabana watu bila sababu ya msingi...poleni my learned fellows ambao mmeathirika kwa namna moja au nyingine na sheria hii.

    Naomba kuwasilisha....
     
  20. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Nimeshangaa sana Sheria mbili za Nchi [LST Act na Public Service (Amendment) Act] kuwa na namba moja (ie No 18 of 2007)! Bahati nzuri ninazo Sheria zote mbili. Sijui ni copy n paste au namna gani? Kuna mtu mmoja aliwahi kusema kuwa Sheria fulani (siikumbuki) ya Tanzania ilikuwa copied toka Sheria ya Kenya, sasa walisahau kufuta jina Kenya na kuandika Tanzania kwenye kifungu kimojawapo! Sasa huo si utani mbaya sana jamani, kama ni kweli? Najua kuna sheria inayoruhusu rectification of errors, lakini akina Chief Parliamentary Draftsman na wabunge wetu wanatakiwa wawe more serious!
     
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