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Uturuki yafanya kweli kuelekea European Union

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by k_u_l_i, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. k_u_l_i

    k_u_l_i Senior Member

    #1
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    Jeshi la uturuki ni moja ya vikwazo vikubwa vinavyoifanya nchi hii kushidwa kukubaliwa na shirikisho la Europe. Hongera kwa bwana Erdogan na Gul kwa kutunisha msuli. Tonya >> hapa

    ¬K
     
  2. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna Mzungu atayekubali Turkey kuingia EU.France na Germany,big players the wont accept,maana kuingiza Turkey EU ,haitakuwa EU tena.

    Serikali ya sasa ni Islamist learning,na jeshi la Uturuki linalinda constitution kuhakikisha kuwa Turkey ni secular state kama mwanzilishi wa Morden Turkey,Kamel Ataturk.alivyofanya.
    Jeshi la Turkey halitaki nchi iwe design ya Pakistan,Saud Arabia etc,maana hapo kuchinjana kuataanza
     
  3. Tumain

    Tumain JF-Expert Member

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    Naona umeshakuwa rais wa EU na tayari umeshatoa uamuzi...
     
  4. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

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    Kila mtu anajua ,hii agenda ya Turkey ni ya USA na Britain kwa geo-political reasons.Lakini France na Germany wameona madhara ya kuwa na Waislamu wengi EU.Huwezi ukaconvince wa Dutch,Belgium ,Austria hata siku moja.Kama kila siku unface terror ya watu kulipua madaraja au matrain ,nao hao watu it happens kuwa Waislamu ,huwezi kukubali mzigo tena wa free movement ya watu hawa.
    Kumbuka Mturuki mmoja alitaka kumuua Pope kwa kumshoot!
     
  5. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

    #5
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    Mkuu sina hakika kama unayosema ni kweli. what do you mean by mzurngu? Late Jorge heider Geert Wilders au unazungumzia natianalists na nazis? be a bit specific.Kwa jinsi ninavyofahamu wazungu kwa ujumla wao si wabaguzi wa kidini, japo kuna wabaguzi ndani ya wazungu. Mbona Ujerumani kuna waturiki zaidi ya Milioni 2.5 na waliowengi tayari ni permanent resience, what would it make any difference for Gemrnay kwa Uturuki kuwa memmber wa EU, or France for that matter where there are more than 6 milioni Muslims? Kuwa Member wa EU kunaitaka member kufuuata rules la laws fulani ambazo zinazoendana na free society, ambazo zinatekelezeka kirahisi Turkey.
    By the way, waislamu wa Turkey si waislamu wa Saudia au Pakistan. Wanakunywa bia, wanakula nguruwe na sio mapoligamist. Kwa sehemu kubwa wanafuata utamaduni wa Ulaya, Ni sawa na waislamu wa Yugoslavia ya zamani, huwezi kuwalinganisha na waislamu magaidi kama kina bin laden
     
  6. jamadari

    jamadari JF-Expert Member

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    wamewakamata hao wakuu wa kijshi walistaafu kisha watawaachia Mahakama Nchi ya kituruki jeshi ndilo lenye Sauti kuliko hata hiyo Serikali,Serikali ya kituruki ni jina tu lakini jeshi ndilo lenye Sauti kuu kuliko hata hiyo Serikali ya Bwana Erdogan na huyu Erdogan akaiendelea hivyo kuwakamata wana Jeshi utasikia wamesha muuwa Mkuu wa jeshi ndio anayeogopewa kuliko hata huyo Waziri Mkuu Bwana Erdogan huijuwi historia ya Uturuki ndio maana unasema hivyo kusikiliza magazeti kazi yake ni kuchapisha habari za ukweli au Uongo mtupu. Hebu soma Waziri mkuu wao wa zamani jeshi lilivyomnyonga anaitwa bwana Adnan Menderes kupata habari zake bonyeza hapa [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Menderes[/ame]
     
  7. k_u_l_i

    k_u_l_i Senior Member

    #7
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    Mmakonde una tatizo kubwa na Waislam. Ningekushauri kuepuka kubadilisha kila mada kuifanya mada ya kidini.

    Tukirudi kwenya mada ni kweli Wajarumani na Wafaransa wakubwa europe lakini kumbuka European Union is not a country club for whites. Motivation kubwa ya kuunda European Union in the first place was for geo-political reason (ambayo unaikubali) and Turkey couldn't be in a better position. Watu wenye chuki na waislam katika mataifa hayo ni fringe of fanatics na political opportunist. Naweza kukutafutia wengine ambao wanachukia watu weusi au wanachukia mayahudi vile vile. Miaka michache iliyopita watu hao hao walikuwa wanapinga baadhi ya nchi za eastern europe kama vile Czech republic in 1997, na Romania & Bulgaria in 2004 kujiunga.
    Serkali ya sasa ya Uturuki ni Islamic leaning on what Standard? As far as I'm concerned England is more Islamic than Turkey. Unajua kama wafanyakazi wa serikali ya Uturuki hawaruhusi kuvaa hijab? Go figure.
    Kemal Ataturk ni dikteta aliyeuwa watu wengi kuliko Sadam Hussein na Jeshi la Uturuki limefanikiwa kuendeleza sera zake za udikteta kwa miaka mingi sana. Hii serikali ya Erdogan imejitahidi sana kupunguza udikteta wa kijeshi na kujaribu ku-implement Copenhagen criteria kuliko serikali yeyote ile iliyotangulia baada ya dikteta mshenzi Ataturk.

    ¬K
     
  8. k_u_l_i

    k_u_l_i Senior Member

    #8
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    Jamadari - rejea tena kwenye original post yangu - mimi sikupinga kama Jeshi ndilo lenye nguvu. Nilichosema ni kuwa Jeshi ni kikwazo kikubwa cha Uturuki kuwa na any chance kujiunga na european union. Ukiangalia katika tawala zote zilizopita tokea Ataturk utaona kama utawala wa Erdogan ndio ulifanikiwa sana to sort of marginalize the military.
    Asante kwa link ya Menderes.

    ¬K
     
  9. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

    #9
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    Kuli ,facts ndio hizo,Wazungu wameshashtukia trend ya Islamisation ya Europe.May be paranoia au vipi,kuanzia saga kama Minaret Uswiss,Denmark na Cartoon,Kuuliwa kwa populist Dutch MP miaka iliyopita,na kadhalika.
    You are right about England,sasa England inapay the price,maana terror plot kubwa zinafanywa Uingereza ,baada ya watu kurudi mapangoni huko Afghnistan.hata jiji la London nicknamed LONDINISTAN.
    Wazungu wanajiuliza ukiruhusu Turkey,itakuwa ni 2 largest state after Germany in terms of population.na hawa ni poor in EU standard.

    Kuli unaweza kuspin unavyotaka,lakini many EU population hawataki Turkey kuwa in EU.
    Simple as that
     
  10. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu naungana na wewe. Unajua tatizo watu wanadhani Ulaya is a christian entity, lakini ukiangalia kwa udani unaweza kushangaa kuwa there are more Christians in Tanzania than all of Europe. Am sure tuna wakristo wengi Tanzania kuliko Uingereza kwa kuwa majority ya waingereza ni realists japo wana background ya ukristo, na sio wabaguzi dhidi ya waislamu.

    The fact kuwa magaidi wamehijack uislam does not make wasiamu wote magaidi na watu wasiotakiwa. Mbona Bush mlokole lakini ameua kuliko Saddam na Osama? Did religion have anything to do with their crime?
     
  11. Z

    Zero One Two JF-Expert Member

    #11
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    yaah!!! mada nzuri,,ukweli ni kwamba tatizo la kuto kuikubali uturuki ni Dini tu na hakuna jingine,,,kwa kuikubaki Uturuki vikao vyote vya kuuangamiza uislam vitagonga mwamba sababu mtete wa waislam atakuwa ndani,,,pia maamuzi ambayo yatatolewa against nchi yoyote ya kiislam uturuki anaweza kuvujisha siri sababu ya FISABILL ALLAH.Ukweli ndo huo Uturuki hata kama haijakuwa na sheria kali za kiislam ila watu wake wengi ni waislaam,,kuikubali Uturuki ni kukalibisha uislam Kwenye jumuiya ya Ulaya kitu ambacho wao wanahisi ni hatari.
     
  12. Z

    Zero One Two JF-Expert Member

    #12
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    Naungana mkono na wewe Mmakonde,,tatizo kubwa ni dini tu,,Hakuna kikwazo kikubwa kama linapokuja swala la dini hata kwenye uhusiano wa mtu na mtu ,,ilii kuungana kufanya jambo flani mara nyingi Dini hua utatat,,,wengi wanadhani jinsi Waislam na Wakristo jinsi tunavyo ishi Tanzania basi ndo dunia nzima noo,,sehema nyingene kuchanganya Uislam na Ukristo ni sumu,,chazo kinaweza kuwa Waislam wenyewe kwa kijionya wananynyashwa au chazo kuwa wakristo kwa kutaka kuwa juu..ndo maana Jumuiya ya Ulaya inasita kuwakaribisha Uturuki hasa kwenye mambo ya kisiasa kwani maranyingi suala la udini hujitokeeza,,mbona kwenye michezo wamekubali Ishiriki kama nchi ya Ulaya iweje wakataee kuikubali kwenye jumuiya kama sio siri kali ya kuteketeze UISLAM.
     
  13. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

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    wanataka kujitenga kutoka Asia?
     
  14. Z

    Zero One Two JF-Expert Member

    #14
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    Bongolander-tatizo sio watu wengi wanafikiri kuwa ulaya wakristo wengi kuliko waislam swala ni kwamba ulaya wengi hawaukubali Uislam na wanauangalia uislam kwa mtazamo tofauti sana hata kama hiyo nchi haija enea ukristo au hata kama haina dini lakini swala la Uislam kwao ni sumu...Kataa kubali Hakuna nchi ya Ulaya inataka kuwekwa chini ya Uislam,hakuna Mzungu Anaetaka kumnyenyekea muaarabu...kumfanya muisalm rafiki kutaleta usawa kitu amacho wazungu hawataki..they always want to be SUPERIOR.
     
  15. Z

    Zero One Two JF-Expert Member

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    Mi ni mgeni nilisahau kuomba kukaribishwa.
     
  16. Z

    Zero One Two JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    Swala sio kujitenga Kutoka Asia,,Uturuki ni nchi Ya Ulaya,,hata ukitaja idadi ya nchi za Ulaya Uturuki ni ULAYA..Swala ni kwamba hawataki kumuweka katika jumuiya ya Ulaya kwani akiwa member wa jumuiya atakuwa anahusika na mipango mbali mbali inayohusu bara la Ulaya..lakini Tatizo Uturuki sio kama Nchi nyingi za Ulaya kwa kuwa ina Idadi ya Waislam wengi kuliko Wakristo hilo Ndo tatizo Pape tusifichane kabisa.
     
  17. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

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    Bongolander kama una siasa za ki SISIEM bongo,huwezi kuelewa jambo hili bila ya kutembea na kusoma mada mbalimbali.True,Ulaya hawasali sasa ,lakini huwezi kukataa imejengwa katika
    Christian principles.
    Utasema udini,lakini ni facts!
     
  18. B

    Bull JF-Expert Member

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    Constitution ndugu yangu hailindwi na jeshi, bali inalindwa na wananchi, kama wananchi waliichagua Islamist Goverenment (kwa mtazamo wako) hao ndio wanahaki ya ku-design nchi yao iwe kama Pakistani, Saudia nk, hiyo ni haki yao ya kikatiba.

    Inanishangaza kama kuna watu mpaka leo hapa jf wanatetea udictator na ukandamizaji unaofanywa na JESHI nakuliona jeshi ndio wanaotetea katiba,
    nadhani ni upeo mdogo wakuto elewa shughuli za kijeshi katika nchi za democrasia
     
  19. k_u_l_i

    k_u_l_i Senior Member

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    Hizo facts(Minaret, Catoon, Van Gogh...) haziko kwenye bigger picture ya kuizuiwa Turkey kujiunga na shirikisho. Hizo ni overblown stories zinazocheza vizuri kwenye 24/7 media na wakati wa uchaguzi. Kwa kweli hizo facts zina-support Turkey kujiunga na europe kwa sababu europe hawana njia ya kupunguza birth rate wala immigration ya waislam huko. Choice walobaki nayo ni kuwa-intergrate into mainstream society na hivyo wanahitaji msaada wa moderate secular muslims. Sheria ambazo zimewekwa ku-protect minorities and religious freedom kwa sababu ya europe's own ugly history from crusade, slavery to holocaust sasa zinawabana(poetic justice?) and there is no going back. Turkey is in the best position to do it for them. Turkey is highly secular na wananchi wake wengi sana wana-secularism kwenye damu.

    Nakubaliana na wewe kwamba hawa jamaa ni masikini kwa kiwango cha EU na mimi binafsi sitegemei kama Turkey itakubaliwa kwenye shirikisho hilo karibuni lakini ni imani yangu itakubalika ndani ya miaka 10 hivi. Nimebaki pale pale kuwa kikwazo kikubwa cha Turkey kuelekea huko ni Jeshi lake.

    ¬K
     
  20. k_u_l_i

    k_u_l_i Senior Member

    #20
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    Karibu sana mkuu [​IMG]

    ¬K
     
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