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Utumizi Wa Majeshi Katika Vita Vya Wengine

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Nzokanhyilu, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. Nzokanhyilu

    Nzokanhyilu JF-Expert Member

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    Wakuu, hii imekaa vipi? Naona wanajeshi wetu wako Lebanon, na Wengine wanaelekea Comoros. Is this economical? Who is financing? What are the benefits to us?
    Is it not cheaper and more effective to hire mercenaries?
     
  2. BabaH

    BabaH JF-Expert Member

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    Waache waende wakapigane kidogo, wamekaa tu na kula tu pesa za walipa kodi, na wanakosa kazi ndo maana wanapiga raia kila siku
    wacha wakapate mahali pa kuonyeshea maujuzi yao na si kwa raia wema
     
  3. N

    Ngereja JF-Expert Member

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    Hiyo ni sehemu ya kujipima katika medani za kijeshi, walishatumika sana huko nyuma mfano Msumbiji, Angola, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Sychelles,India,Liberia,Uganda,DRC, now in Lebanon, labda pia wataenda Darfur n.k. Ndio kazi yao let them show their military muscle.
     
  4. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

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    Ni vizuri washiriki kwenye shughuli za kulinda amani as longer as wakubwa wanagharimia kama walivyoahidi. Hii ni sehemu ya makubaliano ya Kichaka na Kikwete kwenye ule msaada wa kununua vyandarau (as if serikali haina huo uwezo).
     
  5. k

    kamtu Member

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    Ni kweli wanahitaji kufanya kitu, vitambi vinawaota sana bwana
     
  6. Nzokanhyilu

    Nzokanhyilu JF-Expert Member

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    Kwahiyo message nayopata hapa ni kwamba, sometimes vita vinaweza kusababishwa au kuviendeleza ili mradi watu wafanye mazoezi?

    1) Kwahiyo nikisema waingereza na wamarekani wanafanya majaribio ya vitu mbalimbali huko Iraq na Afghanistani sitapata kipingamizi na misemo yenu?

    2) Kwahiyo mnasema mmarekani anagharamia vita hivi? Na mmarekani kujihusisha na kugharamia majeshi ya kiafrika ni kwasababu anaogopa kuweka majeshi yake ili asitolewe nishai kama Somalia?

    3) Kwahiyo mmarekani akitaka afanyiwe kazi yake chafu, ni sawa kutumia majeshi ya waafrika si ndio? So long ana finance, wananchi wa marekani hawatalalamika majeshi yao yanauwawa.

    4) Je, siku kibao kikitugeukia sisi, utafurahi kuona majeshi ya nchi jirani yakiingilia kwetu?

    5) Kupeleka majeshi katika nchi nyingine (kama Zimbabwe walivyopeleka Congo na opposing side Uganda na Rwanda walivyopeleka Congo), inabidi uchague the right side. Comoros seems to be a straighforward decision.....je kibao kikibadilika, how do you choose the right side? Who decided what the right side is? Is the right side the guys making a Coup to remove a democratically elected president who is acting like a dictator (and wants to rule by changing the consitituion whenever they want). What if this democratically elected dictator is supported by say America, and they fall out, which side becomes the right one? The democratic government or the 'rebels'?

    Naona watu wanaichukulia hii ishu ki-wepesi.
    Aren't Mercenaries a more efficient and economical way of dealing with such issues?
    Unatuma wanajeshi wa nchi mbalimbali, wako disjointed, kama huyo dictator kajipanga vizuri, atawatoa nishai. Lakini kama una Mercenaries, unawalipa vizuri, wanajua wanachofanya. Katika harakati za kuwa halalisha hawa Mercenaries, kuna jina lao la ki-proffesional linaitwa Private Military Companies.......
    PMC wako katika vita vyote vinavyoendelea, na wako more effective than jeshi la nchi, kwanini wasitumike??
     
  7. M

    Mbalamwezi JF-Expert Member

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    Ndugu, kushirikiana na nchi nyingine ki ulinzi ni jambo jema kabisa, kwa kuwa hatuwezi kujitenga nje ya ulimwengu. Suala la Comoro limeamuliwa chini ya AU, na hapo ndo unapata dhana ya right side. Limekuja baada ya mjadala wa amani wa miezi nane kushindikana.

    Sidhani kama kweli USA imegharamia hii issue. Ilikuwa planned siku nyingi, SA wakiwemo, japo baadaye wakajitoa. Iko ndani ya uwezo wa AU members ambao wamejitolea.

    Ni wajibu wa jumuia ya kimataifa kusaidiana wakati wa matatizo hata kijeshi, ili kuhakikisha kuwa haki za binadamu zinalindwa bila kujali mipaka, na kwa mujibu wa tamko la haki za binadamu la UN 1948. Kwa hiyo, hata Tz ina haki ya kusaidiwa kijeshi inapokuwa kwenye matatizo.
     
  8. N

    Ngereja JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa nchi kama Marekani, hutumia sana mianya kama hiyo kufanya majaribio ya silaha zake mpya. Mfano huko Iraq, Afganistan na iliyokuwa Yugolavia n.k. Migogoro ambayo huingiliwa kijeshi hubeba mambo mengi nyuma yake.
     
  9. Nzokanhyilu

    Nzokanhyilu JF-Expert Member

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    Mbalamwezi, sipingi unachosema.

    Mimi ninachosema ni kwamba, haya majeshi ya muungano wa nchi mbalimbali sio effective, na ni expensive. Kuna mifano michache. E.g ECOMOG walichemsha Sierra Leone, Liberia. UN wanachemsha kila sehemu wanayoenda. Infact, wanapoteza pesa nyingi sana kwa siku.

    Mfano, bila ya Mercenaries, Sierra Leone ingekuwa imechukuliwa na Sankoh. Na Mercenaries ambao wanachukiwa, waliweza kusaidia the 'right' side, yaani government side kumtimua Foday Sankoh. Wakati muda wote UN walikuwepo wamezubaa zubaa. ECOMOG na wenyewe ndio kabisaaaaaaa.

    Bila ya Mercenaries, Jonas Savimbi angeweza kuwa anashikilia Angola. Lakini not many people or papers talk about it, kwasababu waliosaidia serikali ni Mercenaries.

    Sasa hiyo ishu ya Comoro, jamaa kama yuko fiti, anaweza kuwapelekesha. Halafu hiyo ni Island, kama kajizatiti, the war could be long and drawn. Ukute kashajiwekea vifaa vyake kupitia warusi, hawa wabongo wanaenda kichwa kichwa, mtashangaa watu wanalia. Its a possibility, our army could be facing something they never faced before.

    Lakini, kama wote tunakubali tuko right side, kwanini hiyo pesa wasilipwe PMC's waimalize hiyo kazi katika muda mfupi??
     
  10. M

    Mbalamwezi JF-Expert Member

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    Nadhani kuna uchambuzi mkubwa unahitajika ili tuweze kuona hili la majeshi ya kukodiwa.

    "A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national of a Party to the conflict and "is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party".[1][2]



    "On 4 December 1989 the United Nations passed resolution 44/34 the International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries. It entered into force on 20 October 2001 and is usually known as the UN Mercenary Convention[6]. Article 1 contains the definition of a mercenary. Article 1.1 is similar to Article 47 of Protocol I, however Article 1.2 broadens the definition to include an non national recruited to overthrow a "Government or otherwise undermining the constitutional order of a State; or Undermin[e] the territorial integrity of a State;" and "Is motivated to take part therein essentially by the desire for significant private gain and is prompted by the promise or payment of material compensation..." — under Article 1.2 a person does not have to take a direct part in the hostilities in a planned coup d'état to be a mercenary."

    Swali: hawa wanaweza kukidhi haja kwenye kuimarisha ulinzi na kurejesha hali ya kisiasa kwenye nchi zaetu za kiafrika? Hakuna hatari ya kuanza kucreate demand ili kusababisha supply hatimaye wawe na soko?
     
  11. Nzokanhyilu

    Nzokanhyilu JF-Expert Member

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    Mbalamwezi, asante kwa hiyo article, now you are heading the right direction.

    Hapo nyuma, nimesema kwamba, hawa wanajulikana kama Mercenaries, lakini kusema ukweli siku hizi wamebadilisha jina ili kuwafanya wakubalike, na wanajulikana kama 'Private Military Companies' (yaani wanakata dili kama Kampuni), na amini usiamini hawa jamaa wapo Iraq kwa chini ya baraka za (sanasana) Marekani (eg Blackwater), Uingereza inawezekana wana watu wao etc. Jamaa hawa wamejaa sehemu kama Nigeria kwenye fujo za mafuta wakilinda wafanyakazi wa makampuni makubwa wasitekwe wala kuuwawa. They are effective and they make big bucks.

    I bet you (but dont quote me or hold my word), hawa jamaa wa PMC's wapo Tanzania kwenye makampuni ya madini etc. Tena wasauzi baada ya ANC kuushinda uongozi wa makaburu, jamaa hawa wengi waliingia katika hii biashara.

    Swali lako la mwisho, mimi naamini wamarekani kutaka Africom, ndio wanataka waelekee direction hii. Yaani hiyo Africom iwe compact well drilled machine. Wamarekani naona hawapendi UN, na katika mambo ya kuleta usalama, UN wapotezaji wa pesa wakubwa na hawafanyi chochote....hakuna wanajeshi waoga kama wa UN. All they want is to get paid, and the longer the conflict, the better for their pockets. So, kwa hapa mimi niko for PMC's anytime.

    Kuhusu hiyo article uliyoweka hapo, si umeona imeingia 2001? Hapo ni baada ya UN kuchemsha Sierra Leone. Tena naamini kuna sehemu kipindi hicho Koffi Annan aliwa-big up makampuni kama haya, kwani anajua bila wao UN did nothing in Sierra Leone. Na hata Rwanda/Congo ali-consider kudeal na 'Mercenaries'.

    Hiyo article imewekwa, kwasababu uki-deal na Mercenaries, katika vita, wenyewe wanachagua upande wowote unaolipa. Kwahiyo mfano wa Comoros, huyu jamaa wamekuwa waki-negotiate kwa miezi, ukute kashapata Mercenaries wake (ingawa wakishikwa ni kosa kubwa), na so long ana pesa zake, atakuwa kanunua vifaa kutoka kwa arm dealers. Kuna mrusi (nadhani) kashikwa last week, yeye kazi kuuza vifaa, na atauza upande wowote ule ili mradi anapata pesa yake. Kashikwa tu kwasababu kakanyaga anga za wamarekani, bila ya hivyo wasingemshika.

    Hakuna hatari ya kuanza kucreate demand ili kusababisha supply hatimaye wawe na soko?
    Uwezekano huo upo, ndio inakuja ishu ya which side is right. Ikija kwenye mambo ya natural resources, the side that is sitting on the natural resources tends to be the 'right' side, depending on where your interests lie. Imagine huyo msela wa Comoros kakalia mafuta (sijui amewadindia nini), vita vikim-favour, usije shangaa watu wanakuwa upande wake.
    Believe it or not, huyu Gadaffi anajifanya mwafrika sana, lakini huyu alikuwa mmoja wa masupporter wakubwa wa Charles Taylor na Foday Sankoh (sababu Foday Sankoh alikuwa amekalia Diamonds). Foday Sankoh walipomtoa kwenye machimbo......marafiki zake wakamchunia (by the way, Foday Sankoh naye alikuwa na Mercenaries, anawalipa diamonds. Ndio mambo ya Blood Diamonds hayo na sheria zake yalitokea huko).

    Congo-Kinshansa mfano mzuri, kuna pande nyingi, na kila upande una Mercenaries. Mobutu, kama 'elected' or 'genuine' president angeweza kubaki madarakani kama asingekuwa tight na pesa zake. Kabila alishinda sababu ya Mercenaries na wanajeshi wa Mobutu walikuwa demoralised (ndio maana wengine tulishangaa jeshi letu wamekatiwa maji kikatili, which is no way to deal with your army, lakini hiyo ishu nyingine).
    Sijafuatilia nini kinaendelea Chad, ila wale 'rebels' si bado hawajamtoa president? Wewe rebels wafike hadi wazunguke ikulu washindwe kukutoa? So lazima kuna njugu/contract zimemwagwa, watu wakatulizana, pande zikaanza ku-negotiate. Hapo wafaransa ukute wanacheza pande zote mbili. Kama vipi, wanachomeka Mercenaries wao, bila mimi na wewe kujua, and whichever side wins, it becomes the right side.Rais Wa Chad Ni Fisadi

    Yes, demand inaweza kuwepo, lakini pia ukiangalia across africa, fujo hizi zinatokana kwa sababu ya tamaa ya viongozi kushindwa kutumia utajiri wa nchi vizuri na kujitajirisha wenyewe. It takes one crazy guy (like Comoro, Angola, Sierra Leone au Eq. Guinea etc) to make you force to chose which side is the right side.
     
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