USIA wa Nyerere unaoishi leo

[Shamu]

Sio propanganda mzee mimi nilikuwepo Mwanza wakati ule uliza waliokuwepo Mza kuna jet zililenga kuipiga hospitali ya Bugando
bahati zikarudishwa na kuangusha makombora kisiwa cha saanane, kuna nyumba nyingi tu zilipigwa mabomu mjini Mwanza
sasa unaposema zilikuwa propaganda za Nyerere nakushangaa mkuu.

Nazungumzia offensive ya kuingia ndani ya Uganda kumtoa Idd Amin, ambayo ilipingwa vikali na OAU, Western, hadi Nigeria wakatoa statement kali kuhusu uamuzi wa Nyerere wa kuivamia Uganda.

Self defense ni fair game, but why offensive? hapo ndipo Nyerere alipoanza propaganda za kwenda kumtoa Idd Amin. Kuna watu wa karibu ambao wanasema kwamba uamuzi wa Nyerere kwenda kumtoa Idd Amin ulikuwa zaidi ubinafsi wake Nyerere, na kutaka kulipiza visasi, ni facts.

Ile mistake ya Nyerere kuivamia Uganda ndiyo ilichangia sana kufeli kwa Nyerere ktk 1981,82,83 mpaka akafeli kabisa 85, akaamua kuachia ngazi. Ni mistake ambayo aliifanya, kwa sababu hakupata support yoyote kutoka international community. Na hiyo ni moja ya sababu ya Nyerere kupoteza umaarufu wake internationally.

 

[Shamu]

Sijakuelewa un argue kitu gani kuhusu maendeleo ya Uganda wakati ule, yes hata kama walikuwa na maendeleo kutuzidi kwa hiyo
tukivamiwa tusijitetee kwa vile wameendelea actually i don't see the logic hebu niweke sawa.

Nazungumzia offensive ya kuingia ndani ya Uganda kumtoa Idd Amin, ambayo ilipingwa vikali na OAU, Western, hadi Nigeria wakatoa statement kali kuhusu uamuzi wa Nyerere wa kuivamia Uganda.

Self defense ni fair game, but why offensive? hapo ndipo Nyerere alipoanza propaganda za kwenda kumtoa Idd Amin. Kuna watu wa karibu ambao wanasema kwamba uamuzi wa Nyerere kwenda kumtoa Idd Amin ulikuwa zaidi ubinafsi wake Nyerere, na kutaka kulipiza visasi, ni facts.

 

[Jasusi]

Nazungumzia offensive ya kuingia ndani ya Uganda kumtoa Idd Amin, ambayo ilipingwa vikali na OAU, Western, hadi Nigeria wakatoa statement kali kuhusu uamuzi wa Nyerere wa kuivamia Uganda.

Self defense ni fair game, but why offensive? hapo ndipo Nyerere alipoanza propaganda za kwenda kumtoa Idd Amin. Kuna watu wa karibu ambao wanasema kwamba uamuzi wa Nyerere kwenda kumtoa Idd Amin ulikuwa zaidi ubinafsi wake Nyerere, na kutaka kulipiza visasi, ni facts.

Ile mistake ya Nyerere kuivamia Uganda ndiyo ilichangia sana kufeli kwa Nyerere ktk 1981,82,83 mpaka akafeli kabisa 85, akaamua kuachia ngazi. Ni mistake ambayo aliifanya, kwa sababu hakupata support yoyote kutoka international community. Na hiyo ni moja ya sababu ya Nyerere kupoteza umaarufu wake internationally.

Kwanza kaongee na ndugu zetu wa Kagera kabla ya kutoa sweeping statement kama hii. Ungekuwa wewe umetoka mkoa wa Kagera na ndugu zako kuguswa na unyama waliotendewa na Idi Amin usingethubutu kusema haya unayoyasema. Na kuhusu umaarufu wa Nyerere internationally, if that was ever an issue, the last time I looked, and I live in a foreign country, Nyerere is the most respected leader, not only of Tanzania, but of Africa. And that is a fact. Tuendelee na huu mjadala kesho. It is past midnight hapa nilipo, nahitaji kupumzika.

 

[Ogah]

I believe amin was pro swahili.

The only problem between amin and nyerere was obote ousted.

Ile vita haikuwa kwa maslahi ya tanzania na watanzania.

Kwa hiyo wale ndugu zangu waliokufa kule Kagera.............na pia Amin kusimamisha bendera ya Uganda ndani ya ardhi ya Tanzania........haikuwa tatizo...............I like the "propagandas" from western media...............

 

[Shamu]

Shamu,
I have been to Uganda. First time hata hujazaliwa (nadhani) in 1962). Nilikwenda Uganda kikazi baada ya Idi Amin kupinduliwa. Yale maduka aliyowanyang'anya wahindi na kuwapa marafiki zake, yalikuwa matupu. Nikauliza kwa nini, wakanieleza kuwa waliopewa hayo maduka hawakuwa wafanyibiashara kwa hiyo hata hawakujua fundamentals za kuagiza bidhaa. Waliokuwa wana friji na tv ni wanajeshi wake na marafiki zake ambao Idi amin alikuwa anapeleka ndege zimejaa kahawa Uingereza na kurudi na hizo finished goods. Hazikuwa kwa kila raia but those in the military and close to Amin. Ni kama hivi tunavyoshuhudia hivi sasa utajiri wa kina Lowassa na akina Ridh1 tutoe tafsiri kuwa Tanzania imetajirika. Jifunze mdogo wangu, the truth is not so hard to see.

Hii statement ni facts ktk mwaka huo 1962 ambao ulikwenda wewe Uganda.

Growth slowed in the late 1950s, as fluctuating world market conditions reduced export earnings and Uganda experienced the political pressures of growing nationalist movements that swept much of Africa. For the first five years following independence in 1962, Uganda's economy resumed rapid growth, with GDP, including subsistence agriculture, expanding approximately 6.7 percent per year. Even with population growth estimated at 2.5 percent per year, net economic growth of more than 4 percent suggested that people's lives were improving. By the end of the 1960s, commercial agriculture accounted for more than one-third of GDP. Industrial output had increased to nearly 9 percent of GDP, primarily the result of new food processing industries. Tourism, transportation, telecommunications, and wholesale and retail trade still contributed nearly one-half of total output.

 

[Feedback]

.........Sio suala la kuwauliza watu wa Uganda........wengine tulikuwepo ndani ya Uganda.........

Tell them watu wanasoma vita hivyo kwenye historia (watoto wa 80s) wakati wengine ni part of it ingawa sikuvuka mpaka wakati huo lakini route yangu ilikuwa Mza-Kagera. Jamani msiombe vita hasa kuvamiwa ndiyo maana nawaambia muwaulize watu wa kagera waliokuwepo wakati huo, eti tusingemtoa kwanza tunge tumia rasilimali kwa vitu vingine nyoka ameshaingia ndani unasema nisimpige kwa mwiko eti nitauvunja tukose very interesting.

 

[Ogah]

Nazungumzia offensive ya kuingia ndani ya Uganda kumtoa Idd Amin, ambayo ilipingwa vikali na OAU, Western, hadi Nigeria wakatoa statement kali kuhusu uamuzi wa Nyerere wa kuivamia Uganda........................

Weka ushahidi wa resolutions (maamuzi) unayodai ya UN na OAU kuhusiana na kauli zako za Vita vya Kagera. .....................

.........hebu tupatie hiyo kitu.....please

 

[Makame]

........Oh Yes!.........as we are now (25 years after JKN) doing much better than Rwanda, Uganda and Burundi..............

kwa hio unataka kusema nini?

Au ni kusema kuwa Tusiongelee mapungufu Saint JKN as you have addressing him. Hao wengine mnawatia mapungufu, kasoro St JKN

 

[Makame]

Amina became in Charge in 1971

Hii statement ni facts ktk mwaka huo 1962 ambao ulikwenda wewe Uganda.

Growth slowed in the late 1950s, as fluctuating world market conditions reduced export earnings and Uganda experienced the political pressures of growing nationalist movements that swept much of Africa. For the first five years following independence in 1962, Uganda's economy resumed rapid growth, with GDP, including subsistence agriculture, expanding approximately 6.7 percent per year. Even with population growth estimated at 2.5 percent per year, net economic growth of more than 4 percent suggested that people's lives were improving. By the end of the 1960s, commercial agriculture accounted for more than one-third of GDP. Industrial output had increased to nearly 9 percent of GDP, primarily the result of new food processing industries. Tourism, transportation, telecommunications, and wholesale and retail trade still contributed nearly one-half of total output.

 

[zumbemkuu]

Nilikuwa nafuatilia sana hilo, na nimejaribu kuulizia, kusoma vitabu vingi, article nyingi na nimepata jibu. Iddi Amin alikuwa mbabe kama vile Saddam alivyoivamia Kuwait. Lakini wakati ule unakumbuka Marekani wakaamua kutoenda kumvamia au kumtoa kwa uamuzi wa Bush's father ambaya alikuwa Rais wakati ule.
Issue kama ile iliikumba TZ, na Iddi Amin alipotaka kuichukua Kagera kwa "dhumuni" la "kuwakomboa" wana Kagera kutaka ktk Ujamaa anavyosema Idd Amin. Sasa Nyerere akaamua self defense fair game, kumtoa Idd Amin ktk Kagera. WTZ waliweza kuondoa jeshi la Idd Amin kwa urahisi. Hapo ndipo Nyerere akaanza na mkakati wa offensive. Sasa hizi jumuia zote kama OAU, UN zikapinga sana uamuzi wa Nyerere kutaka kuivamia offensive Uganda kwa dhumuni la kumuondoa Idd Amin. Walipinga kwa sababu walijua watu wengi watakufa, bila ya hatia. Lakini Nyerere kwa Ubabe akasema lazima amuondoe Idd Amin.
Hapo ndipo alipoanza kupunguza kasi yake kupendwa ktk Afrika. Nchi nyingi zilipinga uamuzi wake kwa sababu Nyerere alikuwa anataka kulipiza kisasi. Na kuna WTZ ambao walikuwa karibu na Nyerere walikuwa wanasema kwamba alikuwa anataka kumfundisha adabu Idd Amin kwa kumtoa madarakani, lakini alsihindwa kuangalia gharama za vita, vifo vya innocent people.

Vita vya Uganda vilipoisha, Nyerere alitoswa na Jumuia zote kama OAU, UN ktk maendeleo hapo ndipo uchumi wa nchi ulianza kuanguka vibaya sana. Ndiyo maana ilipofikia kwenye 1981,82,83, Nyerere alikuwa taabani ktk uongozi. Na ilipofika 84,85 ndipo alipoamua kuachia ngazi kabisa.

mkuu hivi unaposema wtz waliyaondoa majeshi ya idd amin kwa urahisi unamaanisha nini? kumbuka uvamizi ule ni wa kushtukiza na serikali ya nyerere haikujiandaa kivita, km ni uvamizi uliokuwa umeandaliwa wale wanakagera wasingeuawa kinyama namna ile, iddi amini aliingiza majeshi kagera na kuwaua raia wasiokuwa na hatia wakiwemo watoto na wakina mama, unavyomtetea eti alikuwa anawakomboa wanakagera kutoka kwenye ujamaa huo ni ujuha sawa na wa huyo idd amini, malengo ya idd amini ilikuwa kuchukua hadi mkoa wa tanga ili nayeye nchi yake iwe na bandari. hakukuwa na urahisi wa kumuondoa idd amini, nguvu ya umma (hapa namaanisha mgambo waliofunzwa kwa muda wa mwezi mmoja tu akiwemo baba yangu mzazi) ndio waliowekwa mstari wa mbele kupambana na majeshi ya idd amini, walikufa mgambo wengi sana ila kutokana na uwingi wa wanamgambo wa tz na kwa ushirikiano wa wananchi wa uganda (kumbuka hapa idd amini alikuwa pia anawatesa waganda wenzake kwa kuwaua na unyanyasi wa kila namna) ndio waliofanikisha kumn'goa idd amini, pia serikali ya china iliisaidia sana tz kwa silaha. unaweza ukamkosoa nyerere kwa mengi lakini hili la vita vya kagera kamwe usimtetee iddi amini, mimi nina shaka na uraia wako, lazima wewe ni mganda na huenda unanasaba ya karibu sana na huyo nduli iddi amini.

 

[Makame]

u got it right this time, no wonder Jasusi likes it!!

Kwa hiyo wale ndugu zangu waliokufa kule Kagera.............na pia Amin kusimamisha bendera ya Uganda ndani ya ardhi ya Tanzania........haikuwa tatizo...............I like the "propagandas" from western media...............

 

[Ogah]

................ Jamani msiombe vita hasa kuvamiwa ndiyo maana nawaambia muwaulize watu wa kagera waliokuwepo wakati huo, eti tusingemtoa kwanza tunge tumia rasilimali kwa vitu vingine nyoka ameshaingia ndani unasema nisimpige kwa mwiko eti nitauvunja tukose very interesting.

........Mkuu.....unajua hapa ninaandika huku nakumbuka ule uchungu wa loss ya ndugu zangu kule mpakani..........halafu unasikia mtu akimsifia Amin and the like of Bashir...........well........tuna safari ndefu sana na hizi brain wash......za kutoka nje........

 

[Makame]

Ninazungumzia Magari ya watu binafsi. Tanzania ilikuwa kijiji na Chifu wetu Nyerere. Hakuna Ruksa kutembea na gari Jumapili, hata kama ni la kwako. Una mginjwa? Pata toa taarifa polisi ili warushe hewani.

Huo si ukiritimba?

....kwa sababu Ni sawasawa hata sasa watu kutumia magari ya serikali kwa shughuli zao binafsi........na kubandika majina yao.....huku wakichukua mafuta kutoka bohari kuu ya serikali...........

.......well............Yes I'm brain washed by western media!.........

 

[zumbemkuu]

Tell them watu wanasoma vita hivyo kwenye historia (watoto wa 80s) wakati wengine ni part of it ingawa sikuvuka mpaka wakati huo lakini route yangu ilikuwa Mza-Kagera. Jamani msiombe vita hasa kuvamiwa ndiyo maana nawaambia muwaulize watu wa kagera waliokuwepo wakati huo, eti tusingemtoa kwanza tunge tumia rasilimali kwa vitu vingine nyoka ameshaingia ndani unasema nisimpige kwa mwiko eti nitauvunja tukose very interesting.

mkuu baba yangu mzazi aliingia hadi uganda na walikaa mwaka mzima huko, yeye ni wale ambao walipewa mafunzo ya mda mfupi (mgambo) askari wa mstari wa mbele, alikuwa kwenye sijui ndio mnaiita kombania ya marehemu imrani kombe. Huyu shamu lazima ana undugu na huyo nduli, vinginevyo asingemtetea kijingajinga namna hiyo, baada ya mzee kurudi salama ndo mimi nikatafutwa kwa fujo, nilizaliwa mwaka 1980 mwz wa 5, kwahiyo huyo shamu asilete zake hapa, mie bado nina damu ya vita, hahahahahahaaha.....

 

[Makame]

Hapa kazi ipo.

Masuala ya Darfur ni issue nyengine; tunaweza kufungua thread nyengine kuyajadili huko.

Ila kwa ufupi ni kwamba, kulikuwa na mgogoro, na AU wanayajuwa hayo masuala zaidi na wameamua kwa Busara zao kuto unga mkono ICC kwenye hilo. Au unataka kula kitu AU wapokee tu?

Kwa hiyo unataka kuniambia kuwa African politics ni kukubali kiongozi kuua watu wake na wewe ukae kimya, no? I'd rather think out of the box and accept your label of being brainwashed by the western media.

 

[zumbemkuu]

Ninazungumzia Magari ya watu binafsi. Tanzania ilikuwa kijiji na Chifu wetu Nyerere. Hakuna Ruksa kutembea na gari Jumapili, hata kama ni la kwako. Una mginjwa? Pata toa taarifa polisi ili warushe hewani.

Huo si ukiritimba?

mkuu vp? sasa hivi unafurahia huu ufujaji wa pesa unaofanywa na serikali, kuna heshima tena kati ya mwenye pesa na maskini? hivi leo hii huo utaratibu ungekuwepo kungekuwepo na foleni za kijingajinga? bilashaka hata public transport zingekuwa na ubora wakuheshimika kuliko ilivyo sasa, bei ya mafuta ingekuwa na heshima. nyerere alikuwa na kauli mbiu ya utu kwa kila mtu, alijua kukiwa na magepu dharau zingekuwepo km ilivyo sasa, nikosoe uwezavyo.

 

[Makame]

HAJASIFIWA AMIM WALA BASHIR

KINACHOSEMWA NI KWAMBA KUMFUKUZA KWENYE ARDHI YETU NI SAWA.

SISI KUJICHUKULIA MADARAKA KWENDA KWAKE SIO SAWA.

KILA M2 ana uchungu. Mimi nimefiwa na ndugu zangu vitani.

Tunasema, tulipaswa kumrudisha kwake, akae huko, na sisi tuimarishe ulinzi ili mipaka yetu isivamiwe; PERIOD.

........Mkuu.....unajua hapa ninaandika huku nakumbuka ule uchungu wa loss ya ndugu zangu kule mpakani..........halafu unasikia mtu akimsifia Amin and the like of Bashir...........well........tuna safari ndefu sana na hizi brain wash......za kutoka nje........

 

[Ogah]

Ninazungumzia Magari ya watu binafsi. Tanzania ilikuwa kijiji na Chifu wetu Nyerere. Hakuna Ruksa kutembea na gari Jumapili, hata kama ni la kwako. Una mginjwa? Pata toa taarifa polisi ili warushe hewani.

Huo si ukiritimba?

...........kipindi hicho nilikuwa na gari yangu binafsi.........pamoja na restriction zilizokuwepo................sikuwahi kuzuiwa kutumia gari yangu kumpeleka mwanangu au ndugu yangu mgonjwa hospitali...................public transport zilikuwepo.........mkaziharibu kwa makusudi ili mlete daladala................cha moto mjini tunakiona...............mji mzima umejaa hewa chafu...........Tanzania imekuwa jalala ya western/Japanese/Chinese products..............Yes we are better off now!

 

[Tango73]

Mimi nangoja tuu kusikia kama hawa baraza la maskofu watamuenzi nyerere mpaka kuwa mntakatifu. Raisi yeyote duniani mwenye au aliyekuwa na secretary wawili regural secretary na private secretary hawezi kabisaa kuwa mtakatifu. Baraza la maaskofu ni lazima wachunguze kazi za private secretary kwanza ndipo wafikirie kutoa sacrament ya utakatifu kwa nyerere. Leo nimejifunza makubwa sana kuhusu nyerere. Kumbe UN na OAU walinyonda kutuunga mkono vita vyetu ingawa tulivamiwa! Hata Misri! Sasa kimbere mbele cha nyerere kuvunja uhusiano wa kibalozi na Israeli mwaka 1973kwa sababu ya Misri kupigwa na Israel kilikuwa cha nini?Kuweka palestinian Day nchini Tanzania na kuwatukana wayahudi kila mwaka wakati hakuna hata nchi moja ya waarabu wala OAU blacks iliyoungana na sisi kulaan amin na matendo yake, hii ilkuwa ni kumpandeza nani? Kweli kabisaa kuondoka nyerere madarakani ni kuchanua kwa Tanzania, naamini kabisa hili. Sasa kama yeye nyerere alikataa kufanya mazungumzo ya diplomasia na Uganda ili kuyamaliza mzozo kwa nini basi alilaani Israel kuchukua mateka yake Uganda? Tena alidai eti Israel ilipaswa kufanya mazungumzo ya kidiplomasia na Iddi amin ili mzozo umalizike kwa Usalama!!! Hii inawezekana kuwa sabau ya OAU na UN kutudhalau wakati wa mgogolo na Uganda!

 

[Ogah]

HAJASIFIWA AMIM WALA BASHIR

KINACHOSEMWA NI KWAMBA KUMFUKUZA KWENYE ARDHI YETU NI SAWA.

SISI KUJICHUKULIA MADARAKA KWENDA KWAKE SIO SAWA.

KILA M2 ana uchungu. Mimi nimefiwa na ndugu zangu vitani.

Tunasema, tulipaswa kumrudisha kwake, akae huko, na sisi tuimarishe ulinzi ili mipaka yetu isivamiwe; PERIOD.

haya maneno hapa chini.........yako very clear......na wala si yangu mimi.......

I believe amin was pro swahili.

The only problem between amin and nyerere was obote ousted.

Ile vita haikuwa kwa maslahi ya tanzania na watanzania.