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Uraia wa nchi mbili: Maendelo na Matokeo yake!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Saidi Yakubu, Mar 6, 2006.

  1. S

    Saidi Yakubu Verified User

    #1
    Mar 6, 2006
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
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    Naam wanajukwaa

    Nafurahi kujiunga na JF, nachukulia jukwaa hili kama ni sehemu ya kujifunza.

    Takwimu za tanzania zinaonyesha kuwa kuna watanzania zaidi ya 1.2m wanaoishi nje ya nchi [rejea ripoti ya Tanzania Law Review Commission]. Naam hii ni karibu 3% ya taifa zima.

    Nadhani wakati umefika sasa serikali ikapitisha sheria kuruhusu raia hawa kuweza kufaidi matunda ya uraia wa nchi mbili kwani kwa sasa wengi wanakwazwa na kuwa wakiamua kuchukua uraia mwingine inabidi waamue kuachia uzalendo wao.

    Swali hili niliwahi kumuuliza mheshimiwa Sumaye alipokuja hapa Uingereza mwaka jana akakiri kuwa ni muhimu kuruhusu lakini hakuweza kutoa sababu kwa nini hasa mpaka sasa Tanzania imeshindwa kuwa sheria ya kuruhusu uraia wa nchi mbili.

    Sasa hivi watanzania wengi wanaoishi Uingereza na nchi nyinginezo za Magharibi wanaweza kupata misaada kadhaa ya kuwekeza nchini mwao lakini kwa vile wengi wameamua kuwa na uraia wa nchi mbili bila kuachia uraia wao wa TZ basi inakuwa hawawezi kuwekeza nyumbani na kama watawekeza wataweka katika mfumo usio rasmi kama vile kuwatumia ndugu na jamaa pesa ili waweze kuwekeza,matokeo yake ni kuwa kwa vile ndugu hana uwezo wa biashara au kutokuwa muaminifu inakuwa ndio hivyo tena hela zinakwenda na hakuna linalofanyika,hii ina athari zaidi kwani mtu huyu hutotegemea akamhimiza mwenzie wa tanzania kuwa kawekeze nyumbani.

    Naam mniwie radhi wanajukwaa nadhani ngwe yangu hapa mtandaoni italelemea zaidi katika kuwawezesha na kuwajali raia wote wa tanzania na kwa vile tuna asilimia 3% ya hawa wapo nje basi nao inabidi waainishe hoja zao ikiwemo na matatizo wayapatao,mwishowe waweze kuwa nao ni washiriki wazuri wa shughuli za kiuchumi Tanzania.

    Mfano wa China ututoshe:
    Kuna wachina 48 milioni nje ya nchi yao.Kuna wizara ya kushughulikia wachina waliopo nje ambayo inakuwa ni kama kiambatanishi cha wizara ya mambo ya nje ambapo wana jukumu la kuhakikisha kila mchina mwenye uwezo wa kutoa mchango kwao anawezeshwa bila vikwazo na pia wachina waliopo nje waweze kuwa wanapata habari na taarifa sahihi kuhusu hali ya uchumi,siasa,jamii nk wakati wote.

    Angalia kwetu:

    Balozi zetu zipo mbali na watanzania au tusema baadhi zimejitenga sana,ni kwa sababu kuwa karibu au mbali kunategemea na hulka ya balozi husika,kama ni mtu wa watu basi watu 'watajichanganya' kama sivyo basi watu hola! Nukta ni nini hapa? ni kuwa inabidi kuwe na ainisho maalum kwenye kazi za balozi katika kuwashughulikia watanzania.

    Inatokea Rais anakuja kwenye nchi husika balozi anamkimbiza asionane na watanzania!

    Natumai Ari mpya haitokuwa hivi na mabalozi nao watawajali watanzania hawa. Maoni yanakaribishwa, ''i stand to be corrected''

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    Waziri Member juu ya Uraia wa Nchi mbili
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    Serikali yashauriwa kuwa makini juu ya Uraia wa nchi mbili
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  2. W

    Willo Member

    #2
    Mar 7, 2006
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    Ndio mheshimiwa bwana SAID YAKUB suala la uraia wa nchi mbili ni muhimu sana kwa mataifa yetu machanga ya kiafrika,kuna mengi sana nchiinawezakufaidika kama zoezi hili litafanyika.

    Tunawezajifunza sana kutoka INdia na Pakistani ambao wenzetu walianza zamani sana mambo haya na kuna programs nyingi sana zilijitokjeza ambazo zimeleta faida kubwa sana katika nchi hizo.

    General ZIA ULhAQ alifaulu sana kwa kutrumia pkis wanaokaa nje ya nchi ambao walileta mafanikio makubwa sana ya kiuchumi nchi humo, na sisi kama kweli serikali italitupia macho suala hilo basi tunawezakufaidika sana. Angalia suala la wataalam wa nje ,wemgine hawana elimu kama resumes zao zinavyojieleza na wapo hapa kutunyang'anya pesa zetu ambazo sisi wenyewe tunaweza tukawa na uwezo kama wao au zaidi ya o kma wananchi

    peace!!!
     
  3. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Mar 14, 2006
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    Ni kweli kijana tunatakiwa kuleta hela nchini,watu wa Africa magharibi wamejitahidi kutuma dolar nyingi nchinii mwao km zawadi kuwekeza na mengine mengi tofauti na sisi. Nchi km China, Pakistani, Korea,I ndia etc zinakadiriwa kupeleka hela chini mwao km misaada kwa jamaa na ndugu pekee kwa kiasi ambacho hata nchi za magharibu wamefika mahali pa kuangalia kwa makini. Mara nyingine wanachukulia km inawapunguzia mzigo wa kutoa misaada,na mara nyingi wanona kuwa ni threat ktk uchumi wao.

    Statistics za makampuni ya money transfer companiies km Western Union zinaonyesha Hela za kutisha zikielekea Asia na kidogo Africa Magharibi. Hapo ndipo tutakapoona ubunifu wa wezetu ktk hii huduma na baadaye kujikita nchi masikini. Hawa jamaa jamaa wanatoa huduma ya kupeleka hela ila pia wanafanya kazi nzuri ya kuzirudisha. Wamejitahidi kujikita nchi masikini na kujenga faida kubwa ambayo mwishowe inawekwa ktk hard currency na kurudishwa.

    Said sasa wewe umeweka wazo tunahitaji wataalamu wa uchumi nao waje na ujanja wa kuzipata hizi hela zilizojificha ktk hii reserve.Hapa panahitaji kuona mbali,si tuvutie hela ambayo mwishowa siku tunakuta tulifanyia tumbo.

    Nadhani unaona hapo UK walivyoibana hela, ukipiga kazi hapo unapata hela ila mwisho wa siku unajikuta kila kitu kimeingia ktk sector za kiingereza na ziada ya kazi ngumu ndio unabaki nayo. Angalia unavyokuwa forced kutumia huduma zao na kulipa rents. Kile kiasi ulichoongezea nguvu za ziada ndicho kinabaki. Sasa sisi wabongo hatujaweza wabana wageni tunaowapa kazi za hela nyingi waziache hizo hela hapa waondoke na bidhaa au na starehe watakayoilipia hapa. Na hii ni rahisi kufanya kwa kutumia wachumi wetu.

    idea ya informal sector inabid ikuzwe.Hata marekani kwa mra ya kwanza small companies na informal sector imeleta mapato yaliyowatisha.
     
  4. M

    Mugishagwe JF-Expert Member

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    May 2, 2006
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    Mimi napinga wazo la kuwa na Uraia wa Nchi mbili si la msingi na hakuna faida .Vijana waamue ama Tanzania ama huko wanako kuona kuna faida .Ni uhalifu kuwa na Uraia wa Nchi mbili na si busara kabisa kuwa na uraia wa Nchi mbili .Nini faida zake? Tanzania JK na Serikali tunasema mawazo ya Ujana wa kuwa na Uraia wa Nchi 2 si mema.
     
  5. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

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    May 3, 2006
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    Hah hah...huo uhalifu utapotea sheria itakapobadilika na kuruhusu hilo.Kama wengine wanaweza wanaweza kuwa na uraia wa nchi mbili na kurahisisha maisha kwa raia wao kwa nini tanzania isiwe hivyo?Nadhani ni suala la kuziweka sheria vizuri na kuwa na ushirikiano na taasisi za kimataifa km interpole,n.k basi kila kitu kitakuwa swafi tuu.
     
  6. Nyamgluu

    Nyamgluu JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Jun 13, 2006
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    "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Matthew 6:24 - New King James Version).
    Similarly one cannot belong to two countries, and serve these two countries equally. His or her loyalty will definitely be in question.

    However, I believe Dual citizenship to be worse than serving two masters, worse than the promiscuity of a husband or wife who chooses not to have one lover but prefers a "nyumba ndogo" to satisfy his/her gluttonous, carnal and covetous needs, it is more so similar to homosexual tendencies whereby people born male (want to) behave as female and those born as female (want to) behave as male, choosing to belong to both and to neither all at the same time! Confusing society! What toilets should they use? How should they be addressed e.t.c.

    If you have a gender identity crisis HAVE A SEX CHANGE AND LIVE WITH IT! Save society the confusion.

    Equally dual citizenship will fuel rise of such characters who will confuse society, to whom I equally say HAVE YOUR CITZENSHIP CHANGED AND LIVE WITH IT! You will confuse society! Are you Tanzanian or American? If there is conflict of interest in business or political interactions are you with us or against us? Where will your vote be?

    Advocates of dual citizenship use the possibility of Direct Foreign Investment (DFI) as an advantage of this idea. AN ADVANTAGE TO WHOM I ASK? The 90% of poor peasant farmers in rural Tanzania who are the ones we need to alleviate from the burden of poverty or the 0.5% elites and 9.5% middle class easing their way into laundering more wealth for themselves here in TZ while taking profits abroad to take advantage of high interest rates and non volatile economies? (Who wants to save millions in a volatile economy of any African country?)

    Dual citizenship will further increase the already large gap between the have and the have nots in Tanzania, a recipe for certain disaster! There will come a time that the poor will say no more to the injustices perpetrated by others under the guise of accelerated development. Tanzania will become another Zimbabwe when the have nots who are a majority of the population will rise and rebel since they will not be profiting from a proclaimed "strong economy"!

    Supporters of dual citizenship should realize that there is more that our country needs than their promises of possible investment. For money is the creation of men, here today gone tomorrow, setting our principles and country laws on such a volatile entity is very unwise, but patriotism is the true measure of character and a persons worth, to serve his or her country no matter what the situation. If you have money to invest in TZ, come and invest it and employ us to run it, won't dual citizenship give more jobs to "foreigners" as they undoubtedly have an advantage. There will be an influx of foreign workers and the poor Tanzanian as always will be left out!
    It's a shame to see our brothers and sisters having been corrupted by the mighty dollar, and to think that they can come flash their money and lure us to a trap set to lock us in poverty and create extreme wealth to an elite few! I say keep your money and enjoy your western life!

    I AM READY TO TAKE ARMS FOR THIS CAUSE AND FOR MY COUNTRY, THE QUESTION IS ARE YOU?(and which country will that be I wonder? Male or female I wonder?)
     
  7. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #7
    Jul 7, 2006
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    On October 18, 1961 few months before official independence, the Legislative Council debated the nature of citizenship in the new country (Tanganyika). It was a very heated debate that resulted to the current arrangement of citizenship in modern Tanzania. The principles that Mwalimu masterfully articulated during his off-the-cuff speech are still valid today as they were almost 45 years ago. Here is the speech! The speech can be found under the title "The Principles of Citizenship" in the book Freedom and Unity. Pg. 126. I hope that as our nation debate the merits or demerits of Dual Citizenship we will all be guided by the enduring wisdom of Nyerere's words. It was after reading this speech I personally decided, I will not seek the citizenship of another nation for my loyalty remains and will forever be to Tanzania and Tanzania only.
     
  8. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Jul 8, 2006
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    Shukrani Mwanakijiji,

    Its a good reminder.

    Ni juzi juzi, tu wakati kombe la dunia likiendelea, tulialikana familia za Kitanzania kuangalia kwa pamoja mechi kati ya Ghana na USA. Well, nilichoshuhudia, ikabidi nijiulize mara mbili mbili kuhusu hii Dual Citizenship watu tunayoipigania.
    Anyway, ni vyema watu kusoma hiyo reminder uliyoipost.
     
  9. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #9
    Jul 8, 2006
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    Ogah, hili ndilo tatizo letu. Tunafikiri historia ya Tanzania ilianza miaka 15 iliyopita. Tukirudi nyuma tutajifunza kwa kina ni wapi tumetoka na kwanini tuko tulivyo. Nilikuwa natafuta hotuba hizi za Mwalimu lakini hazipo online hivyo nimeamua kuzipiga chapa mimi mwenyewe na kuzibandika kwani ukiangalia utaona kuwa Mwalimu was way ahead of his times!
     
  10. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Jul 10, 2006
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    Mwanakijiji,
    Asante kwa hii speech ya Mwalimu. Lakini alichokuwa anaongelea Mwalimu si duo. Mwalimu alikuwa anapinga wale waliokuwa wanataka uraia wa Tanganyika utolewe kwa weusi tu au wazawa.Ndio maana hata hapo baadaye Mwalimu hakukubaliana na hizi sera za uzawa alizokuwa anazipeperusha Idi Simba :roll:
     
  11. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Jul 10, 2006
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    I agree Mzee Jasusi, it has nothihng to do with Duo citizenship at all. It is about ubaguzi wa utaifa na uzalendo!
     
  12. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #12
    Jul 10, 2006
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    Ukiisoma vizuri ile hotuba utaona kuwa Nyerere alikuwa anasema uraia utakuwa ni wa nchi moja tu na akaainisha kanuni ya kuwa raia yaani utii kwa nchi moja (loyalty). Ili tuweze kuwa na utaratibu wa uraia wa nchi mbili ni lazima kwanza kabisa tuseme kanuni ya kwa raia ni nini? Kama siyo loyalty basi tutafute kigezo kingine. Wakati huu, najaribu kulitafakari kwa kina juu ya jambo hili na bila ya shaka nitatoa mapendekezo yangu.
     
  13. b

    bokoboko New Member

    #13
    Oct 1, 2006
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    By G. Madaraka Nyerere

    Sunday News; Sunday,October 01, 2006 @00:02

    A FEW years ago I posted a comment on a web site with a forum on dual citizenship in Tanzania, saying I did not see its merits, that it will provide no significant benefits to the country, and that the single group of beneficiaries will be those who have to pay a 50 dollar visa fee to travel to Tanzania.

    A foreigner staying in Tanzania on a tourist visa can pay over 2,000 dollars annually in visa fees. An investor pays an average of 800 dollars per year for a residence permit.

    I received such a lashing from someone abroad that I refrained from making further comments against dual citizenship.
    In its "Final Report on the Introduction of Dual Citizenship" the Law Reform Commission has recommended that Tanzania amend the current laws to permit dual citizenship.

    I have not been able to obtain a copy of that report, so some of the doubts I have about dual citizenship may have been answered in that report.
    Although I do not believe that dual citizenship poses the national security concerns raised by some, I fail to its significant advantages.

    The basic argument for the introduction of dual citizenship has been economic, specifically, how much the Tanzania economy stands to gain financially from dual citizenship. It as argued that once the system takes off, there should be a rise in investments from former Tanzanian nationals. I do not see how that would happen.

    First, the maximum savings enjoyed by an individual holding two passports will be 2,000 dollars each year.

    An investor with two thousand dollars will be lucky to get an appointment with the Director of Tanzanian Investment Center (TIC) where the minimum amount that qualifies a Tanzanian investor to receive a Certificate of Investment is 100,000 dollars in a new, rehabilitation, or an expansion project.

    One can argue that it is easier to access investment funds abroad, so an individual does not necessarily have to invest from personal savings. If that is the case, it is difficult to understand how a person with 100,000 dollars to invest would have a problem raising 800 dollars annually for his residence permit.

    Anyone with that kind of money would probably see Tanzania as one of many other investment options competing with other investment opportunities worldwide.
    This talk about affection for oneís country of birth is more theoretical than near to the truth. Patriotism is a concept of the sixties and seventies, although I am not saying that there are no patriotic Tanzanians today, here and abroad.

    My point is that individuals, who seek a good return on their investment, will not invest in Tanzania because they hold dual nationality, but rather because, after considering the risks involved, Tanzania provides a good return on their investment compared to other places. Patriotism is not necessarily compatible with making money.

    In fact last year I heard a Tanzania was in Iraq seeking business opportunities. That is more characteristic of individuals looking for a good return on their investments. No amount of citizenships would have forced that man to invest in Tanzania.

    Perhaps what should be done is that parallel with the campaign to attract foreign investments to Tanzania there should be a special drive to attract Tanzanians abroad to invest in Tanzania. It is easier to attract this group than individuals who do not even know the difference between Tanzania and Tasmania.

    What can be argued in favour of dual citizenship is that many of those abroad cannot invest large sums but, given the possible savings from visa and residence permit fees, these individuals may be able to set aside some money for smaller investments either for themselves or members of their families in Tanzania. Or they could increase the amounts remitted annually to family members in Tanzania. Though these amounts may not produce a significant growth to the economy, they remain important to the individual beneficiaries.

    It has also been argued that Tanzania should not be left behind because many countries have adopted the system and many will soon. This is a weak argument. President Kikwete recently revealed in a speech that he declined the offer from his hosts in a European country to join them in a sauna because he felt it was not right. I do not believe he would have changed his mind even if the entire world population went to saunas.

    Let us adopt these changes if they are right but not because everyone else is doing it. Whatever is decided, I doubt whether the increase in foreign investments will be significant.
    madarakanyerere@yahoo.com
     
  14. Mlalahoi

    Mlalahoi JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 2, 2006
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    As a global citizen,I dont see why dual citizenship should only be looked at in an economic point of view.Think of those who gets married while they are abroad,and the kind of problems they encounter when it comes to going back home.Revoking TANZANIAN citizenship when one opt for another country's citizenship is tantamount to denying the rights which they got naturally at birth.
     
  15. S

    Saidi Yakubu Verified User

    #15
    Nov 27, 2006
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    Jana, 26th November 2006, Waziri Mkuu, Mheshimiwa Edward Lowassa alikutana na watanzania walioko Canada katika hafla fupi iliyoandaliwa na ubalozi katika moja ya kumbi zilizomo ndani ya National Arts Museum katika jiji la Ottawa. In his brief speech, among other things aligusia suala la uraia wa nchi mbili na kuwa wanalishughulikia, na sasa hivi mjadala umeshaanza chini ya Tanzania Law Reform Commission. Waziri Mkuu ametoa wito na ombi kwa watanzania walio nje wajitahidi kuchangia mawazo na kuwaelewesha walio nyumbani juu ya faida na umuhimu wa jambo hili, na kuwadhihirishia kuwa ni jambo la kawaida. Waziri Mkuu amesema kuwa wananchi wengi, hususan ambao hawajaishi nje ya Tanzania wanalishangaa na kuliona la ajabu sana, halina umuhimu wowote na sana sana litaleta ujasusi.

    Naamini wengi mliomo humu ni watanzania mlioko nje ya nchi, hivyo ombi na wito wa Mh. Lowassa unawahusu moja kwa moja, kwa hiyo nimeona nililete kwenu. Natumai mtaitikia wito huu na kuleta hoja constructive.
     
  16. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 27, 2006
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    Saidi,
    Kamata tano. Asante sana kwa changamoto hii na bila shaka Watanzania tulio nje ya nchi tutachangia maoni yetu ili kuwasaidia wakuu wafikie uamuzi wa busara.
     
  17. Mwawado

    Mwawado JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Nov 27, 2006
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    Shukran Said,Taarifa yako ni nzuri na inatuhusu sote,kuna wataalamu wa mambo hayo humu naona tutaijadili kwa kina hii mada ili watu wa nyumbani nao wafahamu umuhimu wetu wa kuwa na "Dual Citizen".Naona walio nyumbani wanafikiria hili suala kwa upande wa Usalama tu!bila kuangalia upande wa uwekezaji,Ndg Wazalendo naomba ushirikiano wenu ili suala hili lipitishwe kwenye vyombo vya sheria huko nyumbani.Bwana Said salamu zako toka kwa Dogo Zuheri!
     
  18. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #18
    Nov 27, 2006
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    the bottom line, kuwa na uraia wa nchi mbili hahusiani hata kidogo na maendeleo ya nchi bali uhusiana na maendeleo ya mtu husika. Hata hivyo, kutokuwa nao hauhathiri maendeleo ya nchi wala hamuathiri asiyekuwa nao. Je uraia wa kuwa Mtanzania na Mkenya unafaida gani? au Mtanzania na Mmsumbiji? Of course, uraia wa namna hiyo unaozungumziwa zaidi ni ule wa Mtanzania/Mmarekani, Mtanzania/Mwingereza nk n.k

    Let me think of this a little bit more.. that is my first reaction.. nikifikiri zaidi I might come with some interesting ideas
     
  19. K

    Kulikoni JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 27, 2006
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    Saidi,

    Ahsante kwa kulileta hili.

    Ningependa kuwapasia links za documents mbili muhimu kuhusu hii issue ili tuweze kuchangia vizuri zaidi.

    Zinapatikana katika website ya Tanzania Law Reform Commission.

    1. Position Paper on Introduction of Dual Citizenship in Tanzania
    In pdf format:
    http://www.lrct-tz.org/PositionPaperOnDualCitizenship.pdf
    In MS word format:
    http://www.lrct-tz.org/PositionPaperOnDualCitizenship.doc

    2. Questionnaire on whether Tanzania should retain Single Citizenship stance or Adopt Dual Citizenship
    In pdf format:
    http://www.lrct-tz.org/QUESTIONNAIRE-ENGLISH.pdf,
    In MS Word format:
    http://www.lrct-tz.org/QUESTIONNAIRE-ENGLISH.doc
     
  20. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

    #20
    Nov 27, 2006
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    Mimi nipo nje lakini sijashawishika na hili jambo. Ngoja nitulie nitashuka na hoja zangu. Ahsante Said.
     
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