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Upendeleo JK Baraza Mawaziri- Kilimanjaro

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by MzalendoHalisi, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Source: Mbowe- gazeti Tanzania Daima 20.12.2007


    1. Ni kweli CCM inatoa upendeleo kwa kuteua mawaziri wengi zaidi toka Kilimanjaro? Wakati wa JKN, AHM, BWM hali hii ilikuwaje?

    2. Katika Baraza mawaziri na manaibu 60 kwa mikoa 21 angalau basi kila mkoa upewe nafasi 3. Inakuwaje Kilimanjaro wana eight Ministers (na manaibu) yaani 14%? Je mikoa mingine hakuna wabunge wenye uwezo?

    3. Ni kigezo gani JK anatumia kuteua mawaziri- je ni uwezo? Urafiki na ushkaji? Others?
     
  2. green29

    green29 JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi sioni kama kuna tatizo kwenye kabila la waziri au mkuu wa mkoa. kitu cha muhimu mtu awe na sifa zinazotakiwa, awe mwadilifu na awe anajali maslahi ya Taifa. Nafikiri katika makosa ambavyo viongozi wa kisiasa wanatakiwa wayaepuke ni kutuainisha kwa kutumia makabila yetu. Sisi wote ni WATANZANIA, Full stop!
     
  3. M

    Masatu JF-Expert Member

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    Yes.... hupaswi kuzungumza kama huna takwimu...Kilimanajro haina mawaziri 8 ktk cabinet.

    Tuache unfukunyuku na majungu
     
  4. K

    Kithuku JF-Expert Member

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    Hao mawaziri nane ni kina nani, hebu orodhesheni hapa. Lakini hivi nafasi za uwaziri huwa zinagawiwa kimkoa? Huu ni uchokozi wa kumtafutia rais maneno ya ukabila tu, ambayo dhahiri kwa JK mtakuwa mnanuonea sana. Msemeni mambo mengine, lakini kuhusu ukabila JK hana hata chembe, na ushahidi upo. Hata wakati wa Nyerere ndio alichukua mawaziri wengi kutoka Kilimanjaro, na kutoka sehemu nyingine pia, kuna ubaya gani? Wakati wa Mwinyi, nilikuwa naishi Moshi, kuna kipindi wabunge 5 kati ya 6 wa mkoa wa Kilimanjaro walikuwa mawaziri: Basil Mramba (Rombo), Augustine Mrema (Moshi V), Cleopa Msuya (Mwanga), Charles Kileo(Hai) na Brig Muhiddin Kimario (Moshi Mjini). Na katika miaka 45 ya uhuru, kila jimbo la mkoa wa Kilimanjaro lilishatoa waziri au mawaziri kwa vipindi viwili au zaidi. Sasa hao pia ni JK alikuwa anawateua? Hii kwa upande wangu inaonesha kwamba mfumo wanaotumia wa kuteua mawaziri unayo internal validity ya hali ya juu ndio maana matokeo yanakuwa consistent, kila rais anayekuja aki-apply hiyo formula anapata mawaziri kutoka sehemu hiyo. Kuna ubaya? Au wengine walitakaje?

    Nafahamu pia kwenye baraza la mawaziri yuko mh Daniel Nsanzugwanko ambaye ni mbunge kutoka Kigoma. Kwa hiyo namshauri bw Mbowe aangalie tena takwimu zake, atafakari vizuri pia jibu langu hili, halafu aje hapa tukate ishuz.

    Peace!
     
  5. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Masatu,
    Mawaziri 8- ni data ya Mbowe- mimi nimeweka tu hapa tujadili!

    Hebu tuwataje 1. Mramba 2. Maghembe 3. Chami 4. (Marehemu. Mrs. Mbatia) 5. Meghji??? 6. Rita Mlaki??? 7. ???? 8. ???? 9. ?????
     
  6. K

    Kithuku JF-Expert Member

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    Rita Mlaki ni mbunge wa Jimbo la Kawe, Dar es salaam, kwa hiyo mtoe kwenye hiyo listi
     
  7. M

    Masatu JF-Expert Member

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    Well said Kithuku, nadhani tunatumia muda na nafasi nyingi hapa JF kujadili mambo ambayo sio tu hayana ukweli bali pia yanahatarisha mshikamano wetu kama taifa moja.

    Ndio maana ktk post yangu ya awali nilisema kwa uhakika kabisa kuwa habari hii ( regardless kasema nani) si kweli.

    Kwa kuanzia nini tafsiri ya waziri? hivi je naibu waziri nae waziri? (kumbuka naibu waziri haiingii hata kwenye kikao cha balaza la mawaziri)

    Whoever anaedhani naibu waziri ni waziri basi he/she is clever by half.. na kama hiyo namba ya mawaziri wanane inajuisha pia manaibu waziri then mtoa hoja pia hayuko sahihi kwani Kigoma yupo "Waziri" Nsanzungwanko na kama namba hiyo ya mawaziri wanane ni "full ministers" then labda anazungumzia "ukaskazini" na sio ukilimanjaro tena kwa maana akina Nagu na wenzie nao wanatiwa kwenye mkumbo wa "wakilimanjaro" ijapokuwa wapo Manyara! then labda ili "Data" zikamilike anaweka na Tanga kama "Kilimanjaro" ili kupata the like of Mwapachu na manaibu Mahiza, Kigoda etc.

    All said and done hili somo halina mashiko, ni kupoteza wakati na kushusha hadhi ya jamvi hili, tukimaliza mikoa basi twende na wilayani then jimboni, kata, tarafa mpaka shina sanjari na kuongeza baraza la mawaizri maana nadhani nchi yetu ina mashina zaidi ya laki sijui tuwe na baraza la ukubwa gani kukidhi haja ya "uwiano" tunayo jaribu kuitetea hapa.
     
  8. M

    Masatu JF-Expert Member

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    Mzalendo,

    Kama maneno hao kayasema Mbowe (Freeman) basi kweli tuna kazi kubwa sana ktk siasa za nchi hii.

    Hivi kwa uelevu wa Mbowe bado anathubutu kuweka manaibu waziri kuwa ni mawaziri pia? Hata kama hivyo ni sawa je hajui kuwa Mh Daniel Nsanzungwanko ni naibu waziri na anatoka Kigoma? Hivi anapomjuisha Ritha Mlaki hajui kuwa huyu ni Mbunge wa Kawe? je suala hapa sasa ni ukilimanajro au uchaga?

    Im sorry jamani huko Chadema kama standards zenyewe ndio hizi u still have a long way to go...
     
  9. m

    mwana siasa Senior Member

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    sawa umemsahau na mwengine, DR MATHAYO MATHAYO wa same, ni naibu wa kilimo chakula na ushirika
     
  10. John Mnyika

    John Mnyika Verified User

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    Kwa wale walikuwa kwenye press conference watathibitisha kuwa alichosema Mbowe ni kwamba kuna mawaziri na manaibu waziri takribani 8 wenye asili ya Kilimanjaro.

    Kauli hii ni sahihi kabisa, inajumuisha wanaotoka majimbo ya Kilimanjaro na wenye asili ya Kilimanjaro hata kama hawatoki majimbo ya Kilimanjaro. Na aliweka bayana kuwa ni wakati Kikwete anatangaza baraza alipoingia madarakani.

    Na ukitaka kujua kwamba Mbowe alifahamu kabisa tofauti ya mawaziri na manaibu waziri itazame habari yenyewe kwa ukamilifu wake kwamba wakati anazungumzia Kigoma alisema kabisa kwamba haina waziri hata mmoja kwenye cabinet, na akataja kuwa kuna manaibu wawili ambao pamoja na mambo mengine huishia tu kujibu maswali bungeni lakini si sehemu ya wajumbe kamili wa baraza la mawaziri.

    Na Mbowe hakurupuka tu kusema hayo, alikuwa akijibu swali la Mwandishi wa Gazeti la CCM la Uhuru kwamba je, ni ukweli CHADEMA inaukabila? Je, ni kweli kuwa CHADEMA ni chama cha wachaga?

    Awali Mbowe alikataa kujibu swali hilo na kumwachia Slaa kwa kuwa yeye Mbowe ni mchaga ataonekana anajitetea. Dr Slaa akaweka bayana kuhusu uteuzi wa viti maalumu ambao mwandishi alitoa kama mfano. Mbowe akaongezea ufafanuzi na katika kuzungumza ndipo alipoweka bayana kwamba wanapandikiza maneno ya ukabila ni CCM na kwamba CCM hao hao hawasemi kwamba Baraza la Kikwete lina ukabila kwa kuweka mbele wachaga lakini ni wepesi wa kusema kwamba CHADEMA ni ya wachaga. Mbowe alieleza wazi kwamba wachaga kihistoria wako mstari wa mbele na wamesambaa nchi nzima. Sasa kama taifa tunapaswa kutazama picha pana zaidi badala ya kukurupuka kunyooshea kidole CHADEMA. Na ilielezwa wazi jinsi safu ya uongozi ya CHADEMA ilivyo na sura ya kitaifa. Mbowe alifikia hatua ya kutamka kwamba kama suala la ukabila lingekuwa ni hoja basi CCM ndio chama cha kwanza kwa ukabila. Na aliweka bayana kwamba hata katika viti maalumu vya CCM asilimia kubwa ni wachaga!

    CCM hupenda kuanzisha mijadala bila kujitazama kwa kweli...


    JJ
     
  11. John Mnyika

    John Mnyika Verified User

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    Kwa ujumla Mbowe na Slaa walisisitiza kwamba watanzania wasibaguliwe kwa sababu ya ukabila wao, kwa maana nyingine hata wachaga wana haki ya kuongoza. Suala ni sifa na vigezo vya kuongoza...

    JJ
     
  12. Mwanamalundi

    Mwanamalundi JF-Expert Member

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    MASATU UNALO LA KUONGEZEA HAPO???
     
  13. Kasheshe

    Kasheshe JF-Expert Member

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    Mnyika wewe na Mwenyekiti wako, nadhani silaha zimewaishia, rudini shule tena,,, mbona mna watu wazuri kama Kitila wangepitia mnayotaka kuongea kabla ya kuyatoa hadharani,,, huu ni upuuzi mtupu!!!

    Rita amechaguliwa Dar es Salaam na anawakilisha wanakawe period, mambo ya kutafuta anatokea wapi ni uupuzi wa hali ya juu!!!

    Hivi tunapouliza Wabunge wa Dar es Salaam,,, inamaana tutafuta wazaramo na wadengereko tu!!! are you saying Dar es Salaam haina wabunge,,, maana huenda wote wana-asili ya bara????...

    Da!!! Mkumbukeni Kambarage kidogo kwenye Dhambi hii mnayotaka kufanya!!! Labda mtaacha kuifanya...

    Naanza kuona Mwenyekiti wako ana asili ya Ubaguzi,,, sasa nakumbuka kwanini aliwaambia watu wa-Kilimanjaro hawafaidiki na Mlima kilimanjaro,,, akasahau kwamba wakifaidika na mlima kilimanjaro,,, wakitolewa baruti huko waliko, wakirudi Kilimanjaro hakuna hata pa kuwazika,,,

    Hilo hilo akalipeleka Kanda ya ziwa,,,,!!! Chama makini,,, angalieni namna ya kumkomboa mwananchi,,, mkoa kutoa waziri sio Deal,,,, mbona kipindi hiki budget kubwa imepelekwa mikoa ya bembezoni? Miradi mikubwa inapelekwa huko? ni kwa sababu mikoa hiyo haina mawaziri? this is the most nonsense i ever read from CHADEMA and my young Brother Mnyika is supporting....

    By the way mlishalaaniwa na Kambarage kwamba dhambi ya Ubaguzi,,, ni mbaya sana huendelea tu! kila mahali!!! No wonder wabunge wengi wa wa viti maalum tena wa KUTEULIWA wametoka Kilimanjaro? sasa hapa JK naye alimwambia mwenyekiti wako afanye hivyo?

    Mwenyekiti wako alitakiwa kutumia namna nyingine ya kujibu hoja hiyo!!!! kwa hili amekoroga zaidi!!!


    CHADEMA bado!!! tunahitaji watu kutoka CCM wakaongoze kile chama ndio tutaenda mbele akina Mnyika wasiokuwa na experience yoyote, ndio wana-explore mambo sasa hivi hawawezi tupeleka popote,,, akina Mnyika ndio wanahitaji kulelewa sasa hivi!!!
     
  14. Mwanamalundi

    Mwanamalundi JF-Expert Member

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    ...Dhambi tayari imeshafanyika. Waliotenda hiyo dhambi wanapaswa kutubu na kumkumbuka kambarage kama ulivyodokeza hapo juu.
     
  15. John Mnyika

    John Mnyika Verified User

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    Kilitime,

    Waulize hao CCM, Suzan Lyimo ni Mbunge aliyeteuliwa kuwakilisha Vyuo Vikuu akitokea UDSM hapa Dar es salaam. Ni vipi wanasema kwamba ameteuliwa kwa sababu ni mchaga? Ina tofauti gani na Dr Asha Rose(ambaye alitokea vyuo Vikuu wakati huo?)

    Halima Mdee ametoka Dar es salaam tena akiwa afisa mwandamizi wa Sheria makao makuu ya CHADEMA, vipi CCM leo waseme ameteuliwa kwa kuwa ni mpare wa Kilimanjaro?

    Maulidah Anna Komu ni Mzanzibar, vipi leo CCM wamuite wa Kilimanjaro kwa kuwa tu ameolewa na mchaga? Kwa mtaji huo je, hata Mkapa naye alikuwa mchaga kwa kuwa tu alioa mchaga?

    Wakati CCM wanasema haya, kwa nini usingewakanya? Wiki yote hii yao yamebeba hii hoja, nimepitia michango mbalimbali hapa. Sikuona ukiwa unaikemea kwa nguvu nyingi kama ufanyavyo sasa! Au kibao kimeanza kugeuka?

    CCM tulishawahi kuwakanya kuhusu hili, tena tulitumia maneno haya haya ya Mwalimu Nyerere unayoyatumia sasa, lakini kumbe la kuvunda halina ubani!

    CHADEMA hatupendi ubaguzi, ndio maana tumewaonya CCM waache kupandikiza mbegu ya ubaguzi dhidi ya wachaga.

    Soma hili tamko la miezi mingi nyuma utaelewa tuliwahi kusema nini hapo awali: http://www.chadema.net/tamko/2007/mwanri.php

    Huu mjadala sisi tulijua umekwisha, tumeshangaa CCM ilivyouanzisha tena. Naamini sasa kitaeleweka!

    JJ
     
  16. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    tatizo la uchawi ni kuwa ukiloga na wewe unadhani unalogwa! kwa hiyo mnabakia kulogana!
     
  17. K

    Kithuku JF-Expert Member

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    Mnyika,

    Hii habari ya kufuatilia mtu ana asili ya wapi wakati ni mtanzania ndiyo tunayopinga sisi. Yaani hata nikichaguliwa sehemu lazima museme asili yangu ni wapi, mbona huu ni ubaguzi wa kutisha. Kwa msingi huo, tuna mawaziri wenye asili ya Kenya (Mungai), Uganda (Karamagi), nk? Ni kigezo gani mnatumia kusema "asili" ya wapi sijui? Yaani hata mie leo nikichaguliwa kuwa diwani wa kata ya Terrat halafu kama "zali" tu nikaukwaa umeya, mtaanza kusema nina asili ya Kenya! Jamani, nini hii?

    Mnajua ninyi CHADEMA matatizo yenu ni kwamba mnatumia makosa kusahihisha makosa. Hiyo hasara zake ni kubwa sana. Unapoulizwa swali linalohusu ubaguzi nawe ukalijibu kibaguzi, basi wewe ndio unaonekana mbaguzi zaidi. Mtu akakutukana nawe pia ukamjibu kwa kumtukana, basi nyote mu watukanaji. Hebu jaribuni kutumia busara zaidi.
     
  18. John Mnyika

    John Mnyika Verified User

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    Kithuku

    Nakuelewa sana ndugu yangu, na kimsingi nakubaliana nawe. Ila watu wa CCM ni watu wa ajabu sana. Hili suala lilianza mwaka juzi. Tukawakanya! Hawakusikia. Mwaka jana wakalianzisha tena kwa nguvu zaidi. Tukawakanya, bila kutaja majina ya watu( soma tamko letu hapa-http://www.chadema.net/tamko/2007/mwanri.php) hawakusikia.

    Naamini sasa wataelewa vizuri zaidi kwamba wanayoyafanya baba wa Taifa aliyakataza, na kwa kweli si mazuri. Kumbuka hata baba wa Taifa aliwahi kufikia kusema kama Mbowe alivyosema wakati walipoanza kumtuhumu kwa kwamba anatanguliza udini katika uteuzi wake! Sisi hatujasema kwamba watu wasiteuliwe kwa kuwa ni wachaga, tumesema CCM iache kuinyooshea kidole cha uchaga CHADEMA. Naamini umma unaelewa zaidi kwamba CHADEMA sio chama cha wachaga, ni cha umma wa watanzania bila kujali dini, kabila wala hali zao. Ubaguzi wa aina yoyote ni jambo baya na tutaendelea kuupinga kwa nguvu zote.

    Na hapa si kutumia kosa kuhalalisha kosa- CCM imefanya kosa kusema kwamba CHADEMA ni chama cha wachaga; CHADEMA haikufanya kosa kusema kwamba wachaga wapo Taasisi mbalimbali nchini ikiwemo baraza la mawaziri la Kikwete na wasibaguliwe kwa kuwepo kwao popote.

    We are not using two wrongs to make it right, we are saying what is righy to counter the wrong!


    JJ
     
  19. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    1. So I hope you dont mean- hata baraza lote la mawaziri likitoka Kilimanjaro it does not matter as long as they qualify an hawa ni Watanzania!

    2. In Nigeria iko kisheria-na ni utaratibu at least kila State hupata Waziri mmoja for Federal Government positions!
     
  20. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    An intelligent summary of all what has been said so far.
     
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