United States of Africa!!

[MaxShimba]

Mkuu kuna nchi nyingi sana zimeendelea bila kuungana. Mifano iko mingi. Muungano wa Afrika siyo suluhisho. Let's be for real mkuu wangu do you really think a Unites States of Africa is the answer to our problems? Who are going to govern that government? The same corrupt leaders that govern the individual states now. na Bono kutembelea Uganda kila mwaka does not constitute him knowing our problems and the solutions to them.I don't think he is qualified enough for us to take his words for more than just merely a suggestion from a pop star.

Prior Ghanaian President John Kufuor said in his summing up of the summit's work mwaka 2007 kama ifuatavyo.

"We all have a shared vision of a united, vibrant continental union," Kufuor aliendelea kusema kuwa "We want to do a custom-made thing, something to suit the unique attributes of our continent,".

Labda tunahitaji hiyo custom-made thing, ili kutengeneza US of Africa ambayo itakuwa tofauti na EU na/au USA.

Thabo Mbeki yeye ali-recommended strengthening existing regional economic communities before any setting up of a continental union and government.

 

[MaxShimba]

mh, mtoto ni mtoto na anastage zake kama ulivyo zisema, lakini kitendo cha kuwaambia watoto wafunge ndoa ni kwamba unataka kuwapa tabu ya maisha tu.

Hivyo tusi-compare community zingine ambazo zipo well developed and know exactly what they're put themselves in, na sisi.

Viongozi wetu hawajui hata nini maana ya true democracy wala to guide their own nations. leo tena ukawape complicated policies za continent. Nchi ambazo zipo under developed zitakua disadvanted in terms of kunyonywa, lets wait like that guiness advert say good things comes to those who wait for.

After all hata huo muungano wa EAC aukuanza kwa pupa kama hawa jamaa wanavyotaka it took them a long time to get to where they are today.

Kwanini labda tujisifunze kupitia ule wa kwanza, kama unakumbuka, EAC ilikuwa ni imara kuliko nchi nyingi sana za ulaya. Sasabasi, tukumbuke wakuu wetu, Nyerere, Kenyata, na yule jamaa wa Uganda walifikia vipi na kuunda EAC ya kwanza, tuangalie matatizo yaliyo uwa EAC ya kwenza na tujifunze kuanzia hapo.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Mara nyingine tunapenda kushindwa hata kabla hatujaanza, ndio bahati mbaya yetu.

Kuna kitu kinaitwa calculated risk. For every action there is a consequence. Siyo kila kitu una jaribu for the sake of trying. Only a fool would jump without first seeing what lies ahead.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Naposema haina 'hakika' namaanisha si ya kweli i.e. it is fallacious.

Kama unamaanisha si ya kweli basi sema "si ya kweli". Kitu hakiwezi kuwa si cha hakika halafu kwa wakati huo huo ukasema si cha kweli. Kama huna uhakika nacho kitakuwaje si cha kweli sasa? Logic 101.

Njozi (Vision) ni uono wa mbali.

Kwangu mimi njozi ni pipedream na dira ni vision.

Huwezi kusema njozi inabakia au imebakia njozi tu kwa kuwa hujaishi mpaka wakati wa hiyo 'mbali' itakapotokea.

Yes, you certainly can within a timespace.

Kuna njozi zinachukua mpaka miaka 100 kutimia na kwa sasa ukomo wa maisha (life expectancy) ya Mitanzania ni chini ya nusu karne hivyo Jitanzania haliwezi kusema kwa hakika kuwa njozi ya Umoja wa Afrika imebakia njozi tu!

Sasa wewe huoni kwamba kama hilo Litanzania, let's say lilizaliwa miaka mitano tokea hiyo unayoiita vision kuzaliwa, halafu lenyewe likaishi miaka 70, huoni kwamba litakuwa sawa likisema hiyo "vision" imebaki kuwa njozi tu? Kwa maana ktk hiyo miaka 100 uliyoitoa hakuna kitu concrete kilichotokana na hiyo njozi na lenyewe halijaona chochote cha maana zaidi ya longolongo na propaganda tu. Sasa kama baadaye kama kuna mijitu ikija kufanya kweli zaidi ya longolongo, basi hapo watu watakuwa na haki ya kusema njozi ya LiNkrumah imetimizika na sasa si njozi tena bali ni kitu/hali halisi.

Some opinions change as the facts change. Until then, The United States of Africa ni njozi tu.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Prior Ghanaian President John Kufuor said in his summing up of the summit's work mwaka 2007 kama ifuatavyo.

"We all have a shared vision of a united, vibrant continental union," Kufuor aliendelea kusema kuwa "We want to do a custom-made thing, something to suit the unique attributes of our continent,".

Labda tunahitaji hiyo custom-made thing, ili kutengeneza US of Africa ambayo itakuwa tofauti na EU na/au USA.

Thabo Mbeki yeye ali-recommended strengthening existing regional economic communities before any setting up of a continental union and government.

John Kufuor stated what he wanted to see done but he did not, at least from that quotation, say how he proposed it would be done. It is just like me saying I want to see Tanzania become an African power. If I don't say how i propose that should be done then my words won't carry as much strength. hapo aliyesema cha maana ni Mbeki.

 

[MaxShimba]

You couldn't have said it better. Mtoto ana jaribu kutembea kwanza lakini mtoto huyu (EAC) ana jaribu kukimbia wakati hata kutembea hajajua bado. End result is mtoto atadondoka vibaya na kuumia.

Nafikiri tulisha jaribu kuanza kutembea, pale tulipo kuwa ni ile ya kwanza EAC. Kama unakumbuka, wakati ule, East Africa ilikuwa top, kulikuwa na raha na karaha zake.

Hivyobasi, kama ulivyo sema hapo juu, labda tulikuwa tunakimbia, wakati wa kutambaa, ndio maana tukaanguka, lakini, hiyo ni tabia ya kawaida kabisa kwa mtoto, kuanguka, halafu anasimama na kujaribu tena kutembea, akiwa chini ya uangalizi wa mzazi. Sasa nafikiri tumtafute mzazi wa kutuangalia. How do you see Mkuu?

 

[Companero]

Julius rejea historia ya Liberation Struggle then utajua kuwa Njozi ya USAfrika bado ni changa! Huyo Babu/Bibi wa miaka 70 aliona matukio haya muhimu ya kuelekea USA:

-Uhuru wa Ghana uliofuatwa na Uhuru wa Nchi zingine za Afrika
-Kuanzishwa kwa OAU na Kamati ya Ukombozi wa Afrika
-Mwisho wa Utawala wa Ubaguzi wa Rangi Afrika Kusini
-Kuondolewa kwa VISA kati ya Tanzania na Msumbiji
-Kurahisishwa kwa mzunguko wa watu na pesa Afrika Mashariki

Kukata tamaa kwako kusiwe sababu ya kufumbia macho hatua tulizopiga Wanaujumui wa Afrika!

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Nafikiri tulisha jaribu kuanza kutembea, pale tulipo kuwa ni ile ya kwanza EAC. Kama unakumbuka, wakati ule, East Africa ilikuwa top, kulikuwa na raha na karaha zake.

Sadly I wasn't around at the time of the original EAC so it is hard to tell kulikuwa na raha zipi au karaha zipi. Lakini, I can ask this. How much of whatever we were enjoying then was due to being in the EAC? Was EAC responsible for whatever we were enjoying back then? Would we still have enjoyed those things regardless of the EAC?

Hivyobasi, kama ulivyo sema hapo juu, labda tulikuwa tunakimbia, wakati wa kutambaa, ndio maana tukaanguka, lakini, hiyo ni tabia ya kawaida kabisa kwa mtoto, kuanguka, halafu anasimama na kujaribu tena kutembea, akiwa chini ya uangalizi wa mzazi. Sasa nafikiri tumtafute mzazi wa kutuangalia. How do you see Mkuu?

Unajua mtoto akisha shika moto aka ungua, kama ana akili timamu siku nyingine atausogelea moto kwa uangalifu zaidi. We have to look at what made the original EAC fail. Are those factors still there today? Are there new factors which can cause history to repeat itself? All I'm suggesting is that we already got burned once & we would be foolish to approach the fire with enthusiasm again.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kukata tamaa kwako kusiwe sababu ya kufumbia macho hatua tulizopiga Wanaujumui wa Afrika!

Hayo ya kukata tamaa ni tafsiri yako tu. Mimi I call it as I see it na nimekwambia maoni/ mtazamo wangu wa mambo hubadilika kwa kadri mambo yanavyobadilika. Na kwa kusema ukweli hii kitu bado sana na sidhani kama itakuja kutokea.

 

[Companero]

Kama unamaanisha si ya kweli basi sema "si ya kweli". Kitu hakiwezi kuwa si cha hakika halafu kwa wakati huo huo ukasema si cha kweli. Kama huna uhakika nacho kitakuwaje si cha kweli sasa? Logic 101.

Si cha hakika = It is not factual
Si cha kweli = It is not true

Since "It is not factual = It is not true"
Then "Si cha hakika = Si cha kweli"

PHI101

Wewe mtoto wa juzi huwezi kusema njozi usiyoijua mwisho wake imebaki kuwa njozi!

 

[Companero]

Hayo ya kukata tamaa ni tafsiri yako tu. Mimi I call it as I see it na nimekwambia maoni/ mtazamo wangu wa mambo hubadilika kwa kadri mambo yanavyobadilika. Na kwa kusema ukweli hii kitu bado sana na sidhani kama itakuja kutokea.

Now you are talking. Ni dhahania yako. Sio kitu ulicho na hakika nacho.

 

[Teamo]

do we africans have states so far?(looking at our countries,lets take....)

 

[Kituko]

Nyerere kwa kiasi fulani alikuwa sahihi, kwa jinsi Afrrica ilivyo ni vigumu sana kuinganisha , kutokana na 1)Utamaduni, 2)Dini, 3) Ukabila na vitu kama hivyo
ukiangalia Nigeria watu wanauana kwa sababu ya Dini tu na tena Dini zenyewe ni za kuletewa, ukiangalia Somalia ni balaa, jirani zetu Kenya ni Ukabila,
sasa kwa USA kufanikiwa ni lazima zianzishwe zones kama hii ya East Afican, kma a kweli tutaweza kuungana na kutoa tofauti zetu na tukakubali tuwe na Mila moja na kwa upande wa zone zingine(South, central,west, Notrh) nao wkiungana itakuwa rahisi kuziunganisha zone zote kuwa nchi moj.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Si cha hakika = It is not factual
Si cha kweli = It is not true

Since "It is not factual = It is not true"
Then "Si cha hakika = Si cha kweli"

PHI101

Factual is restricted to or based on fact. So "si cha hakika" could be or could not be true. But when you say something is not true, that is a statement of fact that is supported by facts therefore it can't be "si cha hakika". Get it or do I need to dumb it down?

Wewe mtoto wa juzi huwezi kusema njozi usiyoijua mwisho wake imebaki kuwa njozi!

Kwa nini nisiweze kusema wakati katika uhai wangu (hiyo njozi) haijatimizika?

 

[Eric Cartman]

Kwanini labda tujisifunze kupitia ule wa kwanza, kama unakumbuka, EAC ilikuwa ni imara kuliko nchi nyingi sana za ulaya. Sasabasi, tukumbuke wakuu wetu, Nyerere, Kenyata, na yule jamaa wa Uganda walifikia vipi na kuunda EAC ya kwanza, tuangalie matatizo yaliyo uwa EAC ya kwenza na tujifunze kuanzia hapo.

Mh, sidhani kama utakua ulikua imara hivyo. Kwanza ulivunjika nchi za ulaya na muungano wao umeongozeka over that period atuhitaji a brain surgeon hapa kutuambia upi ulikua imara.

The issue hapa is simple lazima kuwe na foreseeable plans ili uendelee. Na kama kweli hii ndio ingekua nia yenyewe tungeona wanaanza na simple assimilations procescess ili ujijenge na si kuharakisha kila kitu. Kama wanavyosema after a while kenya iliona inabeba mzigo mkubwa na their technologocal advances. Which mattered at the time, leo its a similar situation among the nations ambazo zipo kwenye hiyo EAC. Tanzania is the only within the Union ambayo inaweza accomodate poeple of different groups with open arms, na hawa watu wanaweza wakashamiri. But what about us. Angalia the bigger picture and not ab-tiz na biashara zake are we going to get back the same openness as we're willing to give.

Hivyo issue kwangu sio lugha tunazoongea wala nini. But it sholud be something that benefit its people as a whole and not just the idea on its own. That is to say whoever comes to invest in tanzania aims to benefit the tanzanian government and its people. and not just the union huu wanao utaka ambao utawaumiza wengi sana. wasomi wanaotoka chuo kuanza kugombea kazi na hao jamaa. Hivi unaelewa uganda mpaka leo hii watu wanaelimu zao za maana wanabeba box huku, sio kwa choice bali wakirudi uganda hawapati kazi kwani si kabila. Now under the EAC akija bongo sasa yule anaetoka nae mlimani ana chance gani on the competitive job market.

Kwa hivyo the issue is about being realistic lets prepare our people first in most areas before tujiunge hilo sarafu moja.

 

[Tumain]

Mkuu, well, I am with you. I believe it is possible. Ingawa miaka mkuu, umeweka mingi sana.

I believe in gradual and grassroot relationship kuliko haraka haraka inaweza kuanguka kirahisi
a) miaka 20-30 tukae pamoja na uganda, kenya, rwanda, burundi na Tanzania tuongee kiswahili pamoja kuwe na muingiliano wa kibiashara na kifamilia kiasi kwamba hakuna mtu anaweza kufikiri kuuvunja hata kama akitaka kufnaya hivyo
b) wakati huo nchi kama kongo, zambia, malawi na sudan wataingizwa ndani kwakuwa tutakuwa tumeshawa infuluence kwa kiswahili, biashara na nk..tunakaa nao tena 30 +30 =60 years tayari
c) Wakati huo hii bloc ya swahili imeshakuwa kubwa na very strong economicaly tunawaingiza nchi zote zilizobaki kusini mwa jangwa la sahara yaani zimbabwe, SA, botwana, etc kaa nao miaka 30 inakuwa 90 tayari
d) Ikifikia hapo ndio tuanze kuongea na viinch vya north ambao kuna blocks mbili waarabu na ecowas countries...that is how I see

 

[MaxShimba]

Mh, sidhani kama utakua ulikua imara hivyo. Kwanza ulivunjika nchi za ulaya na muungano wao umeongozeka over that period atuhitaji a brain surgeon hapa kutuambia upi ulikua imara.

The issue hapa is simple lazima kuwe na foreseeable plans ili uendelee. Na kama kweli hii ndio ingekua nia yenyewe tungeona wanaanza na simple assimilations procescess ili ujijenge na si kuharakisha kila kitu. Kama wanavyosema after a while kenya iliona inabeba mzigo mkubwa na their technologocal advances. Which mattered at the time, leo its a similar situation among the nations ambazo zipo kwenye hiyo EAC. Tanzania is the only within the Union ambayo inaweza accomodate poeple of different groups with open arms, na hawa watu wanaweza wakashamiri. But what about us. Angalia the bigger picture and not ab-tiz na biashara zake are we going to get back the same openness as we're willing to give.

Hivyo issue kwangu sio lugha tunazoongea wala nini. But it sholud be something that benefit its people as a whole and not just the idea on its own. That is to say whoever comes to invest in tanzania aims to benefit the tanzanian government and its people. and not just the union huu wanao utaka ambao utawaumiza wengi sana. wasomi wanaotoka chuo kuanza kugombea kazi na hao jamaa. Hivi unaelewa uganda mpaka leo hii watu wanaelimu zao za maana wanabeba box huku, sio kwa choice bali wakirudi uganda hawapati kazi kwani si kabila. Now under the EAC akija bongo sasa yule anaetoka nae mlimani ana chance gani on the competitive job market.

Kwa hivyo the issue is about being realistic lets prepare our people first in most areas before tujiunge hilo sarafu moja.

Ngoja nikukumbushe kidogo kuhusu shirika moja nalo ni la ndege. Nitaweka attachment halafu nitasema kitu hapo baadae. Labda utanielewa.

http://www.airliners.net/search/pho...limit=15&sid=ed51b5875264a7f33b9e65f7d127dd18

 

[Companero]

Ngoja nikukumbushe kidogo kuhusu shirika moja nalo ni la ndege. Nitaweka attachment halafu nitasema kitu hapo baadae. Labda utanielewa.

http://www.airliners.net/search/pho...limit=15&sid=ed51b5875264a7f33b9e65f7d127dd18

Mkuu hizo picha zinatia uchungu. Yaani tulikuwa mbali hivyo. Aah kina Nduli wale!

 

[Companero]

Da alafu rasimali watu yetu tukaipeleka Msumbiji. Kisa tumevunja Jumuiya. Na Watani wa Jadi wametupiga bao kwenye hizo ndege!

 

[MaxShimba]

Ngoja nikukumbushe kidogo kuhusu shirika moja nalo ni la ndege. Nitaweka attachment halafu nitasema kitu hapo baadae. Labda utanielewa.

http://www.airliners.net/search/pho...limit=15&sid=ed51b5875264a7f33b9e65f7d127dd18

Kumbe ilikuwa si mchezo bana. Jamani tufikirie mara mbili mbili wakuu.