UN & ICJ Kuamua Utaifa Wa Zanzibar:Wazanzibari Wapeleka Rasmi Kilio Chao

[Bluray]

On what authority of your consideration the ICJ or UN can not entertain the matters?

This is an internal affair, no UN resolution is violated, none is forwarded to effect this matter, and given the status quo, the UN has no jurisdiction over internal affairs of member states, save for a genocide - where the supposedly post Rwanda influenced protocol of Responsibility to Protect (R2P) which is still in its infancy, ill defined and pitted against the age old Westphalian concept of the paramount sovereignty

What about if the situation is set to endangering the world peace and tranquility such that it will incur the UN to spend on peacekeeping forces missions and other resources in future to solve the isles problems which pose such dangers to the region. For the UN the memory is still fresh on plagued issues of Congo, Katanga, East Timor, Korea to mention few.

Trust me, the level of concern for Zanzibar pars with none of the abovementioned.However you cut it, Zanzibar is a golf ball among planets, visually speaking.

 

[Junius]

......... Zanzibar is a golf ball among planets, visually speaking.

Do you know that despite of being dotted small in the world map, Zanzibar still maintains in the UN record books todate, as 115 admitted member to join the world body, that it can not be ignored in the world forums.

 

[Magezi]

Mimi nawaonea huruma wazanzibari na wapemba kwa sababu kulingana na utafiti juu ya kuendelea kuyeyuka kwa barafu kwenye north pole, inakadiriwa ktk kipindi cha miaka 50 ijayo visiwa kama hivyo vya zanzibar na pemba vita mezwa na bahari. Sasa sijui wakisha jitenga na hilo janga likabisha hodi sijui wata kimbilia wapi pa haraka kama siyo bara!!

 

[Mwiba]

Ikiwa hapa JF kuna watu ambao wanajiita Great thinkers sijui tank thinkers sijui mapaparazi yaani kuna majina kibao yakiambatanishwa na ukomavu wa uelewa ,hivyo basi sidhani kati yenu mtakuwa hamuielewi Zanzibar kabla ya Kuungana na Tanganyika aidha ikiwa ndivyo ilivyo mtaweza kusoma historia na kuielewa mipaka ya Zanzibar 1880,nyote mlikuwa hamjazaliwa ni historia ,sasa tuweke kando historia ,tupime uwezo wa Zanzibar hata baada ya kuungana ,Zanzibar ilikuwa na uwezo wa kununua meli mpya kutoka kiwandani na sio kununua mitumba kama tunavyoona shirika la ndege ATC na kubambikizwa midege mibovu ,Je uwezo wa Zanzibar leo hii upo ? Umekwenda wapi ,je kama ni faida au hasara ya Muungano unafikiria huu uwezo utakuwa katika fungu gani ?

Kunapotokea Muungano kunatarajiwa faida ,Faida ambazo Zanzibar haijaziona ,mabarabara ndio yale yale tokea mkoloni mwarabu ,maofisi ya serikali halikadhalika tumerisi baada ya kuondoka mkoloni mwarabu kama mnavyotaka tumwone ,mitrambo ya TV na redio halikadhalika ni hiyo hiyo tokea tupate uhuru uliodumu kwa mwezi ,Je upande wa Tanganyika ,natumai hakuna haja ya kuangaza sana ili uone faida ilizozikumba ,majumba ya kisasa ,mabarabara ya kisasa bandari za kisasa ,mashule na vyuo wenyewe wanaviita university vimejaa kila kona ,karibu mikoa yote itaunganishwa na barabara nyeusi za lami ,hayo yote ni maendeleo yaliopatikana ndani ya muungano maendeleo ambayo hayaendi Zanzibar wala hayaonekani mpaka watu wapige makelele ndio utaona raisi wa Muungano anatembelea na kwenda kutoa hotuba za dharau , CCM ole wenu mnajua wazi muungano ukifa ndio mwisho wenu wa kutembea na magwanda ya kijani ,lazima mtayaficha tu.

 

[Bluray]

Do you know that despite of being dotted small in the world map, Zanzibar still maintains in the UN record books todate, as 115 admitted member to join the world body, that it can not be ignored in the world forums.

1. When I spoke of "golf ball among planets" I was not belittling Zanzibar in any way, neither was I referring to its geographical size (The Vatican is way smaller than Zanzibar, in fact much much smaller than Tanzania but carries considerably more influence). I was referring to the gravity of the seriousness of the issue as perceived by the international community, kuna watu wa East Timor huko na Polisario na wapi wapi sijui wamelia miaka nenda miaka rudi, wengine wanapigana vita vilivyoua mamilioni ya watu, lakini UN haijawaingilia, sanasana wanapeleka peacekeeping forces tu, itakuwa Zanzibar ambapo hata mabomu ya machozi kupigwa mpaka uchaguzi?

2.I do not know what do you mean by "Zanzibar still maintains in the UN record books todate, as 115 admitted member to join the world body" - the sentence is sadly distorted by the disconcerting disjoint- but if you are referring to the serial number of Zanzibar's admittance to the UN, that is largely a historical fact- and I use the word historical here in the sense that it is not active, dead- Zanzibar and Tanganyika relinquished their membership in the UN and Tanzania took the responsibility of the two, that is why you do not have a Zanzibari Ambassador to the UN, nor a Tanganyika one, you have a Tanzanian. So I do not understand the validity nor point of flashing a number for a relinquished, defunct and dead membership of the UN, it is good for nothing- save for historical purposes-

In other words, unataka kusafiri na passport iliyokwisha expire.

 

[Junius]

1. When I spoke of "golf ball among planets" I was not belittling Zanzibar in any way, neither was I referring to its geographical size (The Vatican is way smaller than Zanzibar, in fact much much smaller than Tanzania but carries considerably more influence). I was referring to the gravity of the seriousness of the issue as perceived by the international community, kuna watu wa East Timor huko na Polisario na wapi wapi sijui wamelia miaka nenda miaka rudi, wengine wanapigana vita vilivyoua mamilioni ya watu, lakini UN haijawaingilia, sanasana wanapeleka peacekeeping forces tu, itakuwa Zanzibar ambapo hata mabomu ya machozi kupigwa mpaka uchaguzi?

2.I do not know what do you mean by "Zanzibar still maintains in the UN record books todate, as 115 admitted member to join the world body" - the sentence is sadly distorted by the disconcerting disjoint- but if you are referring to the serial number of Zanzibar's admittance to the UN, that is largely a historical fact- and I use the word historical here in the sense that it is not active, dead- Zanzibar and Tanganyika relinquished their membership in the UN and Tanzania took the responsibility of the two, that is why you do not have a Zanzibari Ambassador to the UN, nor a Tanganyika one, you have a Tanzanian. So I do not understand the validity nor point of flashing a number for a relinquished, defunct and dead membership of the UN, it is good for nothing- save for historical purposes-

In other words, unataka kusafiri na passport iliyokwisha expire.

So now you agree with me that Zanzibar is not and will not be an entity to be ignored, and to correct on your mispoint about East Timor, let it comes in your mind that it was UN, on similar complaints of Zanzibar against Tanganyika, it spearheaded to the disjoint and independence of E.Timor from the Indonesian domination, and now its free country.
FYI there is no Tanzania in UN, the member states list shows between United Kingdom of Great Britan&Northern Island and United State of America, there is United Republic of Tanzania, of which the UN recognizes as the International contracted merging of two former independent states,that anyone of the two can at any time disjoin.
So Augustine Maige is permanet representative of URT to UN and not Tanzania.

 

[Bluray]

So now you agree with me that Zanzibar is not and will not be an entity to be ignored, and to correct on your mispoint about East Timor, let it comes in your mind that it was UN, on similar complaints of Zanzibar against Tanganyika, it spearheaded to the disjoint and independence of E.Timor from the Indonesian domination, and now its free country.
FYI there is no Tanzania in UN, the member states list shows between United Kingdom of Great Britan&Northern Island and United State of America, there is United Republic of Tanzania, of which the UN recognizes as the International contracted merging of two former independent states,that anyone of the two can at any time disjoin.
So Augustine Maige is permanet representative of URT to UN and not Tanzania.

Zanzibar - or the separatist elements from Zanzibar rather- have been ignored so far, and with these misguided if not naive UN petitions, they are sure to be further ignored. Whether it is an entity to be ignored - I believe nobody's grievances however trivial should be ignored- or not is immaterial for those who do not want it to be ignored.

Your rambling about The United Republic of Tanzania versus Tanzania shows your level of engagement, and I am pressed not to dignify it. But I will point out that we do not have a permanent representative of the URT by the name of Augustine Maige as a point of record, and in your tradition, he is Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary, Permanent Representative of the United Republic of Tanzania to the United Nations Dr. Augustine Philip Mahiga, so much for full names and formal titles (Tanzania vs The United republic of Tanzania huh).

Your only salvation lies in your statement "that anyone of the two can at any time disjoin" and it is more of "should be able to" than "can" - subject to the union contract.

Kwa hiyo, if you want Zanzibar to be free of the mainland yoke - which I also want by the way- your best bet is to work with Zanzibaris and force the Union government to conduct a referrendum under strict international observers, embark on a massive campaign to mobilize Zanzibaris to kill the Union.

i will help you do the same on the mainland side.

There we are, we have something in common after all.Kill this muungano bs halafu tuone kisingizio kingine kitakuwa nini.

 

[HM Hafif]

Kuna watu wamechoka na amani wanafanya kila hila kuhakikisha muungano unavunjika,nina hakika wakishapata wanachodai Zanzibar haitakalika.Dhambi ya kubaguana itaendelea zaidi wapemba nao watadai kutambuliwa na UN !!!!!!!!!!!.

Zanzibar wanapata fursa nyingi ndani ya muungano lakini bahati mbaya wengi wao bado hawajaona faida za muungano.Ulinzi na usalama wa Zanzibar unategemea sana Tanzania bara,siku Tanzania bara watakapo amua kujiondoa Zanzibar tutashuhudia waliokuwa vinara wa kulilia uhuru wa Zanzibar wakikimbila Tanzania bara kujificha.CUF na CCM Zanzibar wanakuwa na umoja wa kudai hata mambo ya kipuuzi kwasababu tu wako ndani ya muungano siku muungano ukitoweka hawatakuwa na umoja tunaoushuhudia leo.

Tanzania yafaa sana kusikiliza hizi kelele za wazanzibar na ikiwezekana tuachane nao lakini kwa masharti siku wakianza kuparurana hatutapokea wakimbizi kutoka Zanzibar.

.

Kwa kweli ukimuona mtu na akili zake timamu kabisa anatema asali na kutamani pilipili basi ujue kuna jambo.

Wabara kwanini tusiwaache waznz kama sisi hatunufaiki na huu so called muungano.

 

[Junius]

Bluray,
So long as the intention is there it makes no difference between "can" or "should be able to" provided that the mainlanders had already expressly and impliedly, breached some constructive terms to the union contract, from the very beginning. The Non observance of the union contract can be interpreated as frustration of the union contract that makes another party i.e, Zanzibar to treat the Union Contract as Voidable,that , as I highlighted ealier, wont determine as points to consider between the abovementioned terms.
I accept the correct spelling of Dr. Mahiga though it was sub silentio point to be raised and determined since you knew exactly whom I was referring to.
Partially I accept and shared your statement on the solution for the union and there will be no other pretexts from either side only if mainlanders will not interfer with and they will respect Zanzibaris rights to enjoy democracy of choice.

 

[Bluray]

Bluray,
So long as the intention is there it makes no difference between "can" or "should be able to" provided that the mainlanders had already expressly and impliedly, breached some constructive terms to the union contract, from the very beginning. The Non observance of the union contract can be interpreated as frustration of the union contract that makes another party i.e, Zanzibar to treat the Union Contract as Voidable,that , as I highlighted ealier, wont determine as points to consider between the abovementioned terms.
I accept the correct spelling of Dr. Mahiga though it was sub silentio point to be raised and determined since you knew exactly whom I was referring to.
Partially I accept and shared your statement on the solution for the union and there will be no other pretexts from either side only if mainlanders will not interfer with and they will respect Zanzibaris rights to enjoy democracy of choice.

sub silentio my foot, by your own standards umekosea more than the name.

If anything your objection over "Tanzania vs United Republic of Tanzania" was more of a sub silentio issue, una misspell jina la mtu unasema sub silentio, mtu anatumia de facto name instead of de jure, which goes without saying (Mara ngapi tunasema America and not "The United States of America?) unaona big deal, ndiyo maana nikasema up the ante kwenye engagement.That was hardly engaging.


Iweke hapa hiyo union contract tuijadili imekuwa violated wapi, tusiwe tunapiga hekaya za abunuwasi na hadithi za Alfu lela U Lela tu.

 

[Cyanide]

The name of person to stand for presidency of Zanzibar shall be decided in Dodoma.

President of Zanzibar shall plead allegiance to, and bear flag of, President seated in Ikulu, Dar-es-Salaam.

Foreign aid to Zanzibar shall be channeled through Ministry of Finance headquartered in Dar-es-Salaam.

Peace, health and security of Zanzibar shall be protected by civil and military organs whose central command shall sit in Upanga, Dar-es-Salam.

Foreign affairs of Zanzibar and all representation of missions thereof shall be overseen by Minister of Foreign Affairs in the Main land.

Any and all effort by whomsoever to break away a square kilometer of the Zanzibar territory of Tanzania, shall constitute treasonous act of aggression against the later, whose axis of power shall center in Ikulu, Dar-es-Salaam. The protectorate, so shall it forever remain, territory of Republic of Tanzania.

 

[Junius]

sub silentio my foot, by your own standards umekosea more than the name.

If anything your objection over "Tanzania vs United Republic of Tanzania" was more of a sub silentio issue, una misspell jina la mtu unasema sub silentio, mtu anatumia de facto name instead of de jure, which goes without saying (Mara ngapi tunasema America and not "The United States of America?) unaona big deal, ndiyo maana nikasema up the ante kwenye engagement.That was hardly engaging.


Iweke hapa hiyo union contract tuijadili imekuwa violated wapi, tusiwe tunapiga hekaya za abunuwasi na hadithi za Alfu lela U Lela tu.

We angage on formality and the same has its level of observance.
Mkataba wa Muungano umefichwa, Tanganyika wanajuwa ulipo labda, "kikundi hiki cha Wazalendo" kilipeleka "petition" mahakama kuu,kuomba mkataba huo uwekwe hadharani kwa kuwa ni mali ya wananchi,mahakama(Mbarouk J, as he then was) ilikataa, alipoulizwa mwanasheria mkuu Zanzibar upo wapi mkataba, alijibu hajuwi(this was hansarded in the HR),ndiyo nikasema kuwa mkataba huu hauna maana yeyote kwa kuwa kuna breaches chungu nzima na ndo maaana wanaficha makusudi kama wanavyoficha ufisadi na mafisadi wao.

 

[Bluray]

We angage on formality and the same has its level of observance.
Mkataba wa Muungano umefichwa, Tanganyika wanajuwa ulipo labda, "kikundi hiki cha Wazalendo" kilipeleka "petition" mahakama kuu,kuomba mkataba huo uwekwe hadharani kwa kuwa ni mali ya wananchi,mahakama(Mbarouk J, as he then was) ilikataa, alipoulizwa mwanasheria mkuu Zanzibar upo wapi mkataba, alijibu hajuwi(this was hansarded in the HR),ndiyo nikasema kuwa mkataba huu hauna maana yeyote kwa kuwa kuna breaches chungu nzima na ndo maaana wanaficha makusudi kama wanavyoficha ufisadi na mafisadi wao.

Mpaka sasa unaongea bila evidence. Unachoongelea hapa ni absence of evidence, which does more to prove that there is no case, than there is a case.

 

[Junius]

Mpaka sasa unaongea bila evidence. Unachoongelea hapa ni absence of evidence, which does more to prove that there is no case, than there is a case.

kama nimekuelewa, ninachosisitiza Mahakama imekataa kusikiliza ombi la kutolewa mkataba wa muungano na AG Z'bar haujuwi ulipo, AG bara hatuambii upo wapi.
Sasa kama tujadili kwa kutumia ushahidi ambao haupo,kutokuwapo au kufanywa kutokuwepo kwake yenyewe ni kesi, vinginevyo tunaachiwa ombwe la kutoa tamati zinazoonyesha, mkataba unafichwa kwasababu tu breaches zilizofanywa na wakubwa na wao hawataki umma ufahamu kuwa wamepotoka katika kujumlisha na kutowa mambo ya muungano.

 

[Bluray]

kama nimekuelewa, ninachosisitiza Mahakama imekataa kusikiliza ombi la kutolewa mkataba wa muungano na AG Z'bar haujuwi ulipo, AG bara hatuambii upo wapi.
Sasa kama tujadili kwa kutumia ushahidi ambao haupo,kutokuwapo au kufanywa kutokuwepo kwake yenyewe ni kesi, vinginevyo tunaachiwa ombwe la kutoa tamati zinazoonyesha, mkataba unafichwa kwasababu tu breaches zilizofanywa na wakubwa na wao hawataki umma ufahamu kuwa wamepotoka katika kujumlisha na kutowa mambo ya muungano.

Forget mkataba usioonekana, wewe zingatia grassroot opposition ili tuje tufanye referrendum. Wewe utafanya campaign huko na mimi nitamotivate huku.

Hii habari ya mkataba they can even change the rules in the middle of the game.

 

[Sonara]

Kwani huko "Zanzibar/Pemba" kunatawaliwa na Mkoloni gani? Hivi tuseme wazanzibari/Wapemba wote hawajui kuwa wa kumtoa adui yao ni mikono yao na sio huko wanakokimbilia!!

Au ndio mambo yetu yale ya kusubili mabadiliko yatokee na sio kuwa sehemu ya kufanikisha mabadiliko.

Kazi ipo!!!!!!

Hivi kutokea ule mwaka 1962 Rashidi kawawa na nyerere aliposema kuwa watu wote kutokea mrima na sehemu nyinginezo watumie kiswahili kuwasiliana na kuwacha lugha zao bado baadhi yetu kinatupa tabu kiasi hichi ?? au ni tafsiri ndio hazifahamiki (haieleweki)hata mana ya zanzibar pia imepotoshwa na wanasiasa na huku watu wengine wanafuata mkondo kama vile ngombe aliyetiwa (wekwa )shemere .Mmungu tusaidimarifa ya kuwazinduwa waliokuwa hawazinduliki.

 

[Junius]

..... zingatia grassroot opposition.....

O.K tuanzie hapa.

 

[Bluray]

O.K tuanzie hapa.

Uchaguzi wa 2010 ni lazima wananchi wapewe nafasi ya kuamua moja kwa moja kuhusu muungano, kwa kuupigia kura ya maoni itakayosimamiwa na wasimamizi mahiri wa kimataifa.Hakuna kiinimacho cha ratification ya bunge wala baraza la wawakilishi.

Mimi wa kwanza kusema hapana kwa muungano, tumechoka kisiwa ambacho ni kidogo kuliko Kahama kwa kila kitu (eneo, population natural resources etc) kitukalie kooni eti tu kwa sababu ya ajali ya kihistoria.

 

[Junius]

.....Mimi wa kwanza kusema hapana kwa muungano, tumechoka kisiwa ambacho ni kidogo kuliko Kahama kwa kila kitu (eneo, population natural resources etc) kitukalie kooni eti tu kwa sababu ya ajali ya kihistoria.

Si ajali ya kihistoria bali ni makusudi mazima na roho mbovu ya "Mtakatifu Mwalimu"

 

[MzalendoHalisi]

Hata mimi naona hizi kelele waungwana ..zimekuwa kubwa mno toka Visiwani kuwa Bara wanainyonya Visiwani, Bara wanadumaza maendeleo visiwani, bara wanaua watu kule, bara wana ila mbaya over mafuta kule n.k n.k, yaani bara ndo mchawi wa maendeleo Visiwani!

Bara tuko 40m na Visiwani wako 1m..yet wana 50 MPs- over 20% ya Wabunge, Wana Jaji Mkuu, Wana makamu wa raisi wana mawziri SMT, wana mabalozi, Wana wawakilishi, wana, Raisi wao, wapo Kariakoo, Mbarali, Mwanza kwa wingi sana na kila mahali wamejaa kwa uhuru kama Watanzania..nk n.k n.k!!

Yet kelele na kulia ni kila siku..kila mtu wa Visiwani unakutana nae analalamika!

Sasa nini faida ya huu Muungano kwa Bara??????

Ni bora tuwe na referendum ili tuheshimiane..tuweke kando articles of Union ya 1964!