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Ukweli kuhusu mpaka wa Tanzania na Malawi

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mtoto wa Mkulima, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. Mtoto wa Mkulima

    Mtoto wa Mkulima JF-Expert Member

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    Wakubwa niwekeni sawa, nilikuwa nauliza Ziwa Nyasa ni Ziwa Nyasa au Ziwa Malawi? Na je, Kwanini Ziwa Victoria liendelee kuitwa Ziwa Victoria na si Ziwa Nyanza? Au ndio kuwaenzi watawala wetu wazungu?

    Lake Nyasa or Lake Malawi?
    The name of the lake itself is also disputed. Malawi claims the lake is named 'Lake Malawi' while international maps and other countries (most notably Tanzania) claim the name of the lake to be 'Lake Nyasa'. The origins of the dispute in the name have their background in geopolitical disputes that began prior to Malawi's independence in 1964, when it was previously known as Nyasaland.

    Further complications emerged for different political reasons in the 1960s, when the then President Banda (of Malawi) became the only African leader to establish diplomatic relations with white South Africa. This was fiercely repudiated by other African leaders, including the then President Nyerere (of Tanzania). The contrasting attitudes and policies gave further impetus to disputes between the two governments, on the name of the lake itself, and the boundary between the two countries.

    At present, the dispute between the two governments is largely dormant. Intergovernmental relations between Malawi and Tanzania are largely cordial.


    Tanzania-Malawi dispute
    The partition of the lake area between Malawi and Tanzania is disputed. Tanzania claims international borders through the lake along the lines of the borders between the German and British territories before 1914; Malawi, meanwhile, claims the whole non-Mozambican lake, including the waters next to the Tanzanian shore. The foundations of the dispute were set when the British colonial government, which had recently captured Tanganyika from Germany, put the water under the jurisdiction of Nyasaland without a separate administration for the Tanganyika portion. The dispute has led to conflicts in the past, though for several years Malawi has declined to enforce its claims to the disputed portion.

    Occasional flare-ups in in the 1990s and in recent times have impacted fishing rights, particularly of Tanzanian's who reside on the lake shore, who have occasionally been accused of fishing in Malawian waters.
     
  2. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

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    katika pekua pekua yangu nimepata kuona mahali kwamba Tanzania haina haki na ziwa Nyasa, tofauti na ziwa Tanganyika ama ziwa Victoria ambazo tunagawana maji na nchi kadhaa, lakini inasemekana kwamba Wamalawi wanadai kuwa Ziwa nyasa ambalo wao wanaliita ziwa malawi ni mali yao na mpaka halali ni ukingo wa ziwa na si ndani ya maji. je wana JF mnalionaje suala hili?
     
  3. Mwawado

    Mwawado JF-Expert Member

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    Habari hiyo hata Mimi nimewahi kuisikia, hata ukiangalia Ramani ya ziwa hilo linaitwa Ziwa Malawi tofauti na hapo zamani tulipoliona kwenye ramani kama ziwa nyasa. Nashindwa kuelewa kwa dhati kama mpaka umegawanywa upya ama ndio yale yale ya kuambiwa kuwa Mlima Kilimanjaro upo Kenya.Inapaswa mipaka ya nchi yetu iwekwe wazi ili kutokuja kupoteza maeneo na Vivutio vyetu vya asili.

    Mpaka wa Tanzania na Malawi una matatizo ya muda mrefu, nakumbuka mwaka 1978 kulikuwa na kurushiana risasi kati ya Majeshi ya Tanzania na Malawi, kwa siku mbili mfululizo kulikuwa na amri ya kutokuwasha Taa katika Mji wa kyela mkoani Mbeya, Kipindi hicho nilikuwa Mbeya, Mkuu wa Mkoa wa mbeya kwa Wakati Huo Mzee Richard Wambura alisema Mwl Nyerere ameamuru majeshi yetu yarudishe mapigo kama itaonekana Banda ataingiza majeshi Kyela. Serikali ya Banda ilikuwa inadai maeneo ya Matema Beach, Mto Songwe mpaka Ipinda yapo ndani ya Ardhi ya Malawi.

    Sasa inawezekana kabisa tumelitoa kwa hiyari ziwa liwe upande wa Malawi nasi tumebakiwa na Bandari tupu ya Itungi,ambayo sasa nafikiri haina hata meli moja baada ya TACOSHILI kufa.
     
  4. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

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    Kama serikali imelitoa hilo ziwa kwa Wamalawi pasipo kuhusisha maoni ya Watanzania, basi serikali inalo la kujibu. Huwezi kuwaambia wananchi waliokaa pale miaka nenda rudi eti, hayo maji usiyaguse ni ya wamalawi hayo.

    Hili suala ni lazima serikali ilitolee kauli haliwezi kuwa kimya kimya milele!
     
  5. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

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    Hili suala lipo na liliundiwa kamati wa nchi hiz mbili mjadala wake nafikri ulishakwisha, na kuna mambo kadhaa yanayotakiw akufanyika ili kuwekana sawa (MoU)

    Suala mojawapo ambalo ni outstanding nakumbuka ilikuwa ni kufanya survey na kuligawanya ziwa in two equal proportions.................wenye inf zaidi wanweza kutuhabarisha.
     
  6. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

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    mimi nina wasiwasi na jambo moja, Ziwa Victoria japo asilimia kubwa ipo kwetu lakini limegubikwa na utata wa mkataba kati ya waingereza na Misri ,mkataba unaoipa misri share kubwa sana ya lile Ziwa kuliko Tanzania, Kenya na Uganda.

    Ukija upande wa Ziwa Nyasa nalo ndo hivyo Wamalawi wanadai kwamba lote ni la kwao, kwa hiyo sisi Tunabaki na ziwa Tanganyika ndo halina mgogoro,

    Kwa hiyo ukiliangalia hili suala utagundua sisi Watanzania nchi yetu imezunguukwa na Maji lakini eti hatuna sauti nayo.na iwapo serikali italala baadae tutaambulia patupu.

    Serikali iwe makini,maji ni uhai, tukileta ufisadi kwenye maji twafa
     
  7. B

    BroJay4 JF-Expert Member

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    viongozi wamehamishia akili zao zote kwenye madini,hamna mtu mwenye time na maji,hawajui hayo maji ndio uhai.
     
  8. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #8
    Nov 13, 2007
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    Kwa kweli nchi yetu ina mzaha na raslimali.Sisi wananchi kwa kutumia uwakilishi wetu bungeni ni kwa nini tusihoji hili suala?

    Inatia kinyaa kuona raslimali tunakalia huku wenzetu hao wakiona uchungu na kutamani hata kile ambacho si chao kama hao Wamalawi.Ni kwa nini na sisi tusiwe na uchungu na nchi yetu?

    MUngu ibariki Tanzania
     
  9. H

    Hume JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 13, 2007
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    Ukiangalia ramani hii inaonyesha hatuna sehemu kabisa ya ziwa upande wa tanzania.

    Tena kuonyesha walakini sehemu hiyo ya mpaka wametumia alama nyekundu tofauti na sehemu nyingine!


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  10. H

    Hume JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa anayejua, nawezaje kuweka image itokee hii sehemu ya maandishi na isilazimike kuwa attachement?

    Nimejaribu nikafeli, Admin help!
     
  11. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 13, 2007
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    Jamani,

    Sidhani kama hiyo taarifa ni sahihi. Kitu ambacho kina utata mkubwa kwenye mpaka wa Malawi na Tanzania ni mto Songwe, ambao kwasasa ndio mpaka kati ya Malawi na Tanzania.

    Huu mto unakuwa na tabia ya kubadili njia na kila ukibadili njia eneo huhamishwa kupelekwa Malawi au Tanzania na kuleta usumbufu kwa wananchi ambao hulazima kubadili nationality au kulazimika kuhama na kutafuta eneo lingine kwenye nchi yao.

    Kwa mfano mto unaweza kubadili njia na kukata kijiji kizima cha Tanzania na kuwa sehemu ya Malawi. Kwa utaratibu wa sasa, wanakijiji hao watakuwa watu wa Malawi au wahamie upande wa Tanzania. Watu wengi, shauri ya mashamba huamua kubaki huko huko na hivyo kubadili nationality.

    Kwa muda sasa serikali mbili zinafanya majadiliano na kufanya survey ili kutengeneza mpaka wa kudumu. Jambo hili naona linafanyika sasa miaka zaidi ya 20 lakini hakuna uamuzi wa mwisho bado. Wakati wa Banda ilikuwa ngumu, lakini sasa sioni kwanini wasifikie makubaliano.

    Ziwa hilo bado linatumiwa na nchi zote tatu bila ugomvi. Enzi za Banda, alikuwa anasema wazi wazi kwamba lake Nyasa ni la kwao lakini hata wakati huo hakukuwa na matatizo yoyote katika utumiaji wa hilo ziwa.
     
  12. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

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    Mtanzania:

    Ukiangalia ramani hiyo iliyowekwa na Hume, uataona mpaka ulio ndani ya ziwa ni ule wa Upande wa Congo na Malawi yenyewe lakini kwa upande wa Tanzania mpaka unaonekana uko nje ya ziwa kabisa hali inayoonyesha Tanzania haina kitu pale, je ramani hii unaizungumziaje?, na kwa nini mpaka ule umewekewa rangi nyekundu badala ya njano kama mipaka mingine?
     
  13. H

    Hume JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu angalia ramani hapo juu. Mpaka ni ardhi yetu. Sehemu ya ziwa yote iko malawi. Au una ramani nyingine tofauti na hiyo? Tuwekee tulinganishe!
     
  14. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Nov 13, 2007
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    Hakuna mgogoro wa mpaka Tanzania na Malawi-Serikali

    Na Mwandishi Wetu,Dodoma

    NAIBU Waziri wa Ardhi, Nyumba na Maendeleo ya Makazi, Rita Mlaki, aliliambia Bunge jana kuwa hakuna mgogoro wa mpaka kati ya Tanzania na Malawi unaosababishwa na Ziwa Nyasa.

    Alisema wameshakaa vikao mara mbili na viongozi wa serikali ya Malawi kuzungumzia kuhusu mipaka na kuridhika kuwa hakuna tatizo hilo kati ya nchi hizo.

    Waziri Mlaki alisema wanatarajia kukaa kikao cha tatu ili kupata tafsiri ya namna mipaka inavyogawanywa katika maeneo ya ziwa na bahari.

    Alikuwa kijibu swali la nyongeza la Mbunge wa Mkwajuni (CCM), Mzee Ngwali Zuberi, aliyetaka kujua lini serikali za Tanzania na Malawi zitakaa kutatua tatizo la mipaka kati ya nchi hizo.

    Swali hilo lilitokana na swali la msingi la Mbunge wa Singida Kaskazini, Lazaro Nyalandu kwa Waziri wa Maji, aliyetaka kujua serikali imeshindwaje kunadi jina la Ziwa Nyasa ili kuondoa utata wa Malawi inayodai kuwa ziwa hilo lote ndani ya nchi yao.

    Naibu Waziri wa Maji, Shamsa Mwangunga akijibu swali la Mbunge Nyalandu alisema Tanzania ina uhusiano mzuri na Malawi kwa muda mrefu na kwamba ahaina mgogoro kuhusu ziwa hilo.

    Hata hivyo, alikiri kuwa sheria za wakati wa wakoloni ndiyo chimbuko la Ziwa Nyasa na kwamba mkataba wa Anglo German ulibainisha kwamba ziwa hilo ni milki ya Malawi kinyume na taratibu za sasa za mipaka inayopita majini, inayotoa fursa sawa kwa nchi zinazotenganishwa kwa ziwa au bahari, kwamba mpaka upitie katikati ya ziwa au bahari husika.

    Alisema Tanzania na Malawi zinaendelea kutumia ziwa hilo kwa shughuli za kila siku bila ya mgogoro wa aina yoyote na pia zinaendelea kubuni miradi ya pamoja ya kuendeleza Bonde la Ziwa Nyasa.
     
  15. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 13, 2007
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    Hume,

    Naona jibu langu linakaribiana na jibu alilotoa huyo waziri.

    Nilichosema hakujawahi kuwa na ugomvi juu ya namna ya kulitumia hilo ziwa. Hiyo ni mipaka ya kikoloni ambayo inaweza kujadiliwa au hata kupingwa kama kuna matatizo. Lakini kwa uzoefu wangu wa hayo maeneo hakuwajawi kuwa na mgogoro kwenye utumiaji wa hilo ziwa.

    Huko nyuma nguvu kubwa iliwekwa kwenye mpaka wa Malawi na Tanzia yaani mto Songwe maana huko ndiko kuna usumbufu kwa wananchi.
     
  16. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    Nikiangalia majibu haya ya waziri kuna masuala yafuatayo yanajitokeza

    moja Waziri kakiri wazi kwamba kwa Mujibu wa mkataba wa Anglo-German ziwa Nyasa ni Mali ya Malawi.

    Na kwa kuwa hadi hivi sasa hakuna mahali Wamalawi wameutangazia ulimwengu Kwamba wanajivua haki ya kumilik Ziwa Nyasa lote(kama mkataba unavyoelezea),basi ni kwamba hilo ziwa Nyasa litaendelea kuwa Mali ya malawi Mpaka mazungumzo yanayoendelea yatakapozaa kitu kipya.

    Hoja ya pili hapo ni kwamba kwa kuwa nchi tulizokuwa nazo ni mazao ya mipaka tuliyochorewa na Wakoloni, na kwa kuwa mkataba wa waingereza na wajerumani unaliweka ziwa nyasa ndani ya malawi,na kwa kuwa Wamalawi hawajaweka saini mahali popote kutumegea kipande cha ziwa Nyasa basi ni dhahiri kuwa ziwa Nyasa ni mali ya Wamalawi.Hivyo ndivyo nilivoielewa kauli ya Waziri.

    Suala la kwamba tuna uhusiano mzuri na malawi, bado haivunji hoja ya kutaka kujua je tuna chetu katika ziwa nyasa? au ni huruma tu ya wamalawi kutuachia achia tu na sisi tupatepo maji ya kunywa
     
  17. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

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    Linganisha hili na lile suala la mto Nile. Tanzania huru inaweza isitambue hiyo sheria. Sijui wanasheria mnasemaje?

    Kule Nile nafikiri hatutambui sheria ya mkoloni.
     
  18. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Unajua mara baada ya kupata Uhuru Nyerere alihutubia umoja wa Mataifa akasema Tanganyika huru haifungwi na mikataba iliyowekwa na wakoloni kwa niaba yake.

    na kwa namna hii ni wazi mkataba wa Nile ni batili kwa msimamo huu wa mwalimu. kwa sababu nile inatokana na ziwa victoria ambalo lipo Tanganyika(isomeke Tanzania)na mikataba yote ya kugawana mipaka ya kikoloni inathibitsha kuwa Tanganyika iwe na ziwa Victoria pamoja na Kenya na Uganda.

    Lakini hakuna mahali popote ambapo inaonyesha Ziwa Nyasa ni mali ya Tanganyika(na badala yake upo mkataba wa wakoloni unaoligawa Ziwa Nyasa kwa Wamalawi tokea awali kabisa enzi za scramble for Africa). kwa hiyo ni dhahiri pingamizi hili la mwalimu katika Umoja wa Mataifa halihusu ziwa Nyasa kwa sababu halijawahi kuwa mali ya tanganyika(kimipaka).

    Labda kama ulivyopendekeza, Tuone wataalamu wa sheria hususan sheria za kimataifa wanalizungumzia vipi hili suala.isije ikawa tunawafundisha watoto wetu jiografia ya uwongo.na kisha tunawatungia mitihani wanayofaulu, kumbe majibu ni ya uwongo.
     
  19. H

    Hume JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Kwa maana hiyo Tanzania inakiri kuwa hatuna sehemu kwenye ziwa nyasa OR sorry wenye ziwa lao wanaliita ziwa Malawi.

    Wenye kujua historia, neno Ziwa Nyasa tulilitoa wapi? Au tulibatiza mali za watu?

    Kama mtu mmoja alivyoshauri, tubadili contents kwenye jiografia ili ieleweke Ziwa Nyasa haliexist!
     
  20. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Nov 13, 2007
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    Mtanzania,

    Ni kweli unachosema juu ya Mto Songwe na pia ni kweli nilichosema kuhusu Lake. ni kweli haijawahi kuwepona mgogoro.....................jambo lililojiri ni kutoka kwa sisi wenyewe wananchi kuzungumza juu ya Ziwa hili na ndio maana hizi serikali mbili ikabidi zichukue hatua kufanya hizo survey (both to the Lake and mto Songwe) ili kuwekana sawa....................... ninajua nilichokisema kilitokea na kazi inaendelea
     
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