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U.N. Praises Tanzania

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Sungi, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    The U.N. has praised Tanzania for granting citizenship to some 162,000 refugees who fled Burundi 38 years ago. "It's the most generous naturalization of refugees anywhere," said UNHCR spokeswoman Melissa Fleming. The head of the agency, Antonio Guterres, described it as a "historic moment" and urged other countries with long-term refugees to follow Tanzania's example. Until 2000, Tanzania had one of Africa's largest refugee populations, 680,000, from Burundi and DR Congo. Some 350,000 Burundians have returned home in recent years, says the UNHCR. A U.N. spokeswoman said most of those granted Tanzanian nationality were Hutus. They had mostly fled conflict with the Tutsi-dominated army. The spokeswoman said they were already integrated into Tanzanian society and were not living in refugee camps, reports the Reuters news agency. (BBC)
     
  2. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Why is this a big deal..if these people have been living in Tanzania for the past 38 years?
     
  3. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    It is a big deal because they were living without Citizenship.

    It is also big deal because these numbers are unprecedented in a single grant of Citizenship.

    Inaonekana kama watu either hatuelewi au tunadharau haki ya uraia.Hawa watu wamekaa miaka yote hiyo bila kuweza kuwa na haki za kiraia kisheria, maanay yake either hawakuweza kupiga/ kupigiwa kura pamoja na haki nyingine za uraia, au kama walikuwa wanapiga kura etc etc, walifanya hivyo kwa kuibia ibia.

    Sasa huu uraia unaondoa matatizo haya. Kwa watu 162,000 kwa mpigo. And you are telling me this is not a big deal?
     
  4. T

    Tindikali JF-Expert Member

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    Kinachoongelewa hapa sio faida za uraia, hizo zinajulikana. Tunasema nini cha ajabu hapa kwa kumaanisha hawa watu walistahili uraia tangia hapo maana walishakaa miaka 40. Tanzania haikustahili sifa za namna hiyo. Tena wamecheleweshwa kupewa uraia.

    Haimaanishi kilichofanywa hakina maana au faida. Hukuelewa.
     
  5. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Kinachoongelewa na nani? Article inaongelea Watu 162,000 kupewa uraia, how can you not associate that with the rights of citizenship?

    Nini cha ajabu? Hakuna nchi (Tanzania included) iliyowahi kuwapa watu wengi hivi uraia kwa mkupuo. Unasema walistahili kupewa uraia tangu zamani, kwa misingi gani? Sheria gani? Unasema sijaelewa, lakini inaonekana wewe ndiye usieelewa tofauti ya amnesty/ charity na stahili haviendi pamoja. Hawa watu wamepewa uraia kwa amnesty/ charity.Serikali ya Tanzania in principle ingetaka kuwarudisha Burundi ingeweza.Kwa hiyo hili si jambo la kupuuza.

    Mimi ni critic mkubwa wa serikali, lakini serikali inapofanya jambo sawa sina budi kuipongeza, na wala sioni kwamba kuipongeza serikali inapofanya jambo sawa kunanipunguzia uwezo wangu wa kuikosoa katika yale inayofanya vibaya.Serikali haihitaji kufanya kila kitu vibaya ili ukosoaji wangu uwe relevant.

    I can understand if you are basically saying "What took you so long?" to the government, but saying that the government does not deserve credit because it took too long doesn't sit well with me, because after all the government had the option in principle at least to send all these people back to their country.
     
  6. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    Analysis nzuri sana ndugu yangu!
     
  7. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    This act makes me proud to be a Tanzanian, it is an act based on both legality and morality. The praises by the UN are without doubt justified because as pointed by others who responded to the thread, it is an unprecedented act that ought to be an example to all the countries around the globe, pamoja na umaskini wetu wote!
     
  8. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Kiranga,

    Key info kwenye hii habari ni "38 Years" na "162,000"

    Kwa sababu nimeandika sentensi moja haimaanishi sikuwa na sababu za kuishangaa U.N. kwa kuisifia Tanzania.

    Hebu naomba nikuulize haya machache ndio utaweza kunielewa kwa nini naona pongezi hizo hazistahili.

    Miaka yote 38 hao Wakimbizi walikuwa wakiishi vipi Tanzania, nikiwa na maana;

    Waliruhusiwa kufanya kazi/ biashara?

    Walikuwa wanaishi kwenye kambi za Wakimbizi?

    Walikuwa wanahudumiwa mahitaji yao na Serikali ya Tanzania au UNHCR?

    Katika miaka 38 hiyo total ya 162,000 imepatikana vipi (kama sio ya kufikirika) nikiwa na maana ni wangapi ambao wamepewa uraia sasa ingawa wao (watoto) na wazazi wao walizaliwa Tanzania ndani ya miaka hiyo 38?

    Katika kipindi cha miaka 38 hawa watu unaweza kusema walikuwa ni Waburundi kwa sababu baathi yao walitokea Burundi au Wazazi na Wazee wao walitokea Burundi?

    Majibu hayo ndiyo yananifanya niwashangae U.N. Hawa watu ni haki yao kuwa Watanzania baada ya kuishi Tanzania miaka 38; Serikali ya Tanzania na U.N wote wanalijua hilo. Utaniuliza kwa mujibu wa Sheria gani....mimi nitakujibu sio kila kitu kiko black and white kana kwamba hawa tunaowazungumzia hapa sio watu. Tanzania ingeweza na ilikuwa na wajibu wa Kibinadamu (Moral Law) na pengine kwa Compassionate ground za kuwapa hao wakimbizi uraia mapema zaidi.

    Hivyo, hoja yangu ni kuwa U.N inatoa sifa kwa jambo ambalo Tanzania "ilipaswa" kufanya au kama ingeamua kuwanyima Uraia ingetakiwa kuwarudisha Burundi...jambo ambalo wote tunajua baada ya miaka 38 lisingewezekana. Je, bado unataka tuamini kuwa "kimatendo" Tanzaia ilikuwa na options zenye kuingia akilini?
     
  9. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Key indeed, that 162,000 is a record, and yet some people will not acknowledge that.How many countries have these types of refugee numbers but will not formally recognize these people?

    I never said nor implied kwamba hukuwa na sababu za kuishangaa U.N, nimeonyesha kuwashangaa wanaoishangaa U.N.

    Walikuwa wakiishi bila full legal citizenship rights.

    You tell me, si kila mkimbizi anakatazwa kufanya kazi/ biashara.

    You tell me, si kila mkimbizi anatakiwa kuishi kwenye kambi za wakimbizi.

    And where are you leading? What exactly is the relevancy of this question? Wengine walijhudumiwa na Tanzania, wengine na UNHCR, wengine both, wengine hawakuhitaji msaada wa huduma. What is your point?

    Unachoshindwa kuelewa au kuignore ni kwamba, Tanzania ishatoa uraia mara kibao kwa Warundi huko nyuma. Na kati ya hawa 162,000, the bulk of them ni waliokuja baada ya matatizo ya early nineties. Warundi waliokuja early seventies most of them walioa/ kuolewa. Wengine wakachukua uraia legally, wengine hawakuona hata haja ya kuchukua uraia kwa sababu walijichanganya.Warundi hawa walijichanganya kutoka KIgoma-Ujiji, Kasulu, Nzega, Tabora, Ilala, Ikwiriri mpaka Somanga.Nishawaona kwa macho yangu, na Watanzania walivyowakarimu.

    Sasa msitake kusema kana kwamba serikali ya Tanzania haijawahi kuwapa Warundi uraia, na imewashurutisha kusubiri miaka 38 ili kuwapa uraia.Hasha. Wamepewa uraia sana tu.Ila hii inaonekana ni habari kubwa kwa sababu wamewapa wengi uraia kwa pamoja. tena inaonekana kama kulikuwa na deliberate effort kutoka serikalini kuwapa uraia hata wale ambao walikuwa hawajui kufuatilia suala hili

    Warundi waliokaa Tanzania kwa miaka 38 na kupewa uraia katika exercise hii ni wachache sana.Most of these people came to Tanzania in the nineties.Hivi Africa tuna life expectancy gani ya kufanya watu waliokimbia miaka 38 iliyopita wawe wengi hivyo? Tanzania life expectancy yenyewe ni miaka 56, amabayo inakuwa pushed up na watu wa mijini wenye access na huduma za afya.Realistically vijijini average life expectancy ni miaka 50. Sasa watu wengi waliokimbia miaka 38 iliyopita ambao walikuwa over 12 kwa kutumia life expectancy hii watakuwa washakufa, wengine waliozaliwa Tanzania ni raia by birth.Tatizo mnapoonza "wakimbizi waliokaa miaka 38" mnafikiri wakimbizi wote wamekaa miaka 38.Miaka 38 hii imechukuliwa ili kuwa all inclusive, kwamba the ones to survive the longest with the refugee status can be traced to coming to Tanzania 38 years ago.But I would not be surprised to find that this is a small percentage, and the bulk of these refugees came in the nineties.

    Ukiongelea morality ni kitu subjective.Na morality ni tofauti na moral law, something neeeds to be a law first in order to be a moral law.Usichanganye "morality" na "moral law". Na kwenye morality hakuna law.Hakuna kitu kama "moral privilege" in this conetxt, kuna legal privilege.The Tanzanian government had a moral calling to straighten this out, this was not an obligation, it was a mere calling. And it did the right thing. Sasa sijui mlitaka nini?
    Ilipaswa kufanya na nani? Kwa sheria gani? Huwezi kuingiza shurti kwa issues za morality.You either have legal ground or you don't. And in this case you don't. Hata hao U.N wana ma morals ambayo yamekuwa ingrained katika ma charter yao ambayo Tanzania ni signatory.Tanzania in principle ingeweza kabisa kusema tunawaweka wakimbizi kwenye makambi, aututawapa haki ya kufanya kazi lakini hawapati uraia.Mbona Marekani kuna wakimbizi wa kiuchumi mamilioni na mpaka leo tangu Reagan atoe amnesty wanahaha, wanafanya kazi under the tables, wanapewa matatizo kupata drivers license na mambo mengine mengi? Serikali ingeweza kuignore tu hii issue, lakini imeamua kufanya what's right.Lakini kuna watu wanaona the government can never do right.

    Kuwanyima uraia si lazima kuwarudisha Burundi, wangeweza kuachwa na refugee status for life, mpaka kufa.

    Forget kinachowezekana na kisichowezekana, this is actually not about whether Warundi wanarudishwa au hawarudishwi, kukaa nchi ya watu bila peace of mind tu ni kitu kibaya vya kutosha.

    I just hope serikali haijawa motivated na party politics katika chaguzi, managingo to look altruistic on one hand, and benefiting from political machination on the other.
     
  10. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    UNHCR welcomes Tanzania's naturalization of 162,000 refugees

    Source: United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR)
    Date: 16 Apr 2010

    http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/MDCS-84KEGR?OpenDocument

    This is a summary of what was said by the UNHCR spokesperson at today's Palais des Nations press briefing in Geneva. Further information can be found on the UNHCR websites, www.unhcr.org and www.unhcr.fr, which should also be checked for regular media updates on non-briefing days.

    Yesterday, and during a visit by UN High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres to Kenswa village in the Katumba area of Western Tanzania, Tanzania's Home Affairs Minister Lawrence Masha posted the first formal notification list of Burundian refugees who're being granted citizenship. Similar notifications were simultaneously posted by senior immigration officials at all other settlements in the country hosting Burundians who fled to Tanzania in 1972. In total some 162,000 people are affected.

    The development is a major milestone in one of Africa's longest-running refugee dramas, and was welcomed by High Commissioner Guterres who expressed his gratitude and appreciation to the people and leadership of Tanzania, describing it as an historic action.

    Mr. Guterres also called on the international community to recognize Tanzania's gesture and appealed to donors to respond positively to ensure that the process of integrating these new citizens is fully successful. The High Commissioner urged other countries with long-staying refugee populations to emulate Tanzania's unprecedented decision.

    Tanzania's announcement this week follows its offer in 2008 to the so-called '1972 Burundian Refugees' to either be repatriated or apply for citizenship. Those who chose repatriation are now back in their homeland. As recently as 2000, Tanzania's was the largest refugee population in Africa, with over 680,000 Burundian and Congolese refugees in camps in the northwest border regions of Kigoma and Kagera.

    The majority of them were Burundians who fled during the civil war in the 1990's. Since the peace process started in 2002 some 500,000 Burundian refugees have returned home from neighbouring countries.

    For further information on this topic, please contact:

    In Dar es Salaam: Eveline Wolfcarius on mobile +255 784 730 408 In Nairobi, Kenya: Yusuf Hassan on mobile: +254 737 564 033 In Geneva: Fatoumata Lejeune-Kaba on mobile +41 79 249 3483
     
  11. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Hii paragraph pamoja na maelezo yako hapo juu vinabadilisha kabisa maana ya hii habari. Ni vizuri tukakubaliana kuwa kwenye habari iliyoletwa hapa mwanzo kulikuwa hakuna kabisa taarifa za kuwa wakimbizi hawa wengi wao ni wale waliokuja Tanzania miaka ya 1990's.

    Kwa mantiki hii tuko ukurasa mmoja kuwa Serikali ya Tanzania inastahili pongezi.

    Suala la timing kwenye kuwapa uraia sasa, inaweza kuwa mjadala wa siku nyingine. Ila iwapo japo nusu ya hao 162,000 wapo maeneo hayo uliyotaja basi ni sahihi kuamini kuwa kura zao na wao zitahesabiwa kwenye uchaguzi ujao.


     
  12. Shy

    Shy JF-Expert Member

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    Kuna habari nilisoma sehemu fulani kwamba raia wa burundi sasa wanaweza kuingia nchini bila kibali
     
  13. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Not to regress back to my usual skepticism, but this one factor (votes) makes me doubt the level of authenticity of the altruism projected by this move.In any case it is commendable.
     
  14. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

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    Let me hope there is no political motive behind this move.
     
  15. Waberoya

    Waberoya JF-Expert Member

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    Is it true? jaribu kutafuta uliisoma wapi utuletee mkuu,
     
  16. j

    jingoist Member

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    mmezungumzia swala la haki ya kupiga kura nikaona na mimi nishiriki kidogo. HAKI YA KUPIGA KURA na DEMOKRASIA kwa tanzania vina maana yoyote? mi huwa nasumbuka sana hapa, naonaga kama hivi vitu sio practical japo husemwa na kupewa uzito mkubwa sana katika maisha ya mtanzania. Kwanini? Kuna tetesi kuwa kura huibiwa sana; watu wakipewa kanga hutumia hiyo 'haki' kuchagua mtu mtoa rushwa; and hadi watu wamekata tamaa hawajiandikishi/hawapigi tena kura. Asipopiga kura huambiwa anapoteza haki yake!! Haki gani wakati kura yake hana uhakika nayo au haina nguvu!! So hongera tanzania kuwapa uraia hao watu...lakini sioni kuwa advantage ni kupewa haki ya kupiga kura...naomba mnielimishe wakuu!
     
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