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TZ VS MALAWI lawyers on dispute issue....

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mwana wa Mungu, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Mwana wa Mungu

    Mwana wa Mungu JF-Expert Member

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    MALAWI Wameshashirikisha wanasheria wao sana na bila shaka wanayo makundi ya wanasheria wanaoshughulikia suala hili la ziwa nyasa. simaanishi wanasheria wa nje, la, wanashirikisha maprof mbalimbali kutoa sababu za kisheria, sio siasa za maneno ni kwanini wao ndo wanamiliki ziwa na siyo Tanzania. SWALI: Tanzania imejiandaa vipi na kukabiliana na suala la malawi? pale kwa Attorney General, ameandaa wanasheria wake wepi au amewapa kazi wepi ambao kazi yao ni kuandika maopinion ya kufa mtu na kufanya research na kuandaa sababu ambazo Tanzania inaweza kubase juu ya ziwa nyasa?au tumelala tu wakati malawi miaka yote wako macho na ziwa lao?

    ajabu ni kwamba, Tanzania mara nyingi tumelala kuhusu ziwa hili ndio maana malawi hadi leo hawaamini kama ni letu pia. wao walikuwa wanapiga kampeni ya chini kwa chini, wakifundisha watoto wao, na kupenyeza kwenye ramani za dunia, google na kila sehemu wakionyesha mpaka, na sisi tanzania tulichukulia kawaida tu wala hatukurespond chochote, sasa tayari wameshauambia umma wa dunia kuwa ziwa ni lao na dunia inaamini hivyo, kilichobaki ni kwetu sasa kuleta hoja za kisheria kuthibitisha kuwa tuna haki kwenye ziwa hili...tumekumbuka shule wakati kumekucha na mbu wameng'ata hadi wameshiba. lakini bado tunayo nafasi, zaidi ya kuwa tunazo sababu ya kuwa labda :

    1. suala hili halijawahi kutatuliwa, bado liko kwenye mgogoro tangu uhuru, hivyo tulikuwa tunaishi na mgogoro, kama mgogoro ulikuwa haujatatuliwa tangu uhuru, malawi leo hawawezi kusema sisi hatuna kitu kwasababu mgogoro haujawahi kutatuliwa.
    2. watu wa tz wamezaliwa mle na tz imekuwa ikiendesha shughuli zake mle, ndo maana tunazo hadi bandari na tumekuwa tukisafirisha vitu kwa meli zetu mle...kama tumejenga bandari za mbambabay, tumesafirisha bidhaa miaka yote hii, tumevua samaki, inakuwaje leo malawi waseme sio letu, mtu anaweza kujenga bandari, kuvua na kufanya navigation kwenye ziwa ambalo si lake?
    3. mikataba ya ukoloni ilikuwa ya ulaghai, watz hatuikubali kwasababu ilikuwa ya kilaghai.
    zaidi ya yote, inabidi tusikubali jurisdiction ya ICJ, tutatue hili jambo kwa wasuluhishi tu, na si mahakamani, kwasababu tukikubali tu jurisdiciton ya ICJ basi ni compulsory kukubali na hukumu watakayo toa. mambo ya muhimu yafanyike.

    1. Serikali ya Tz iunde jopo maalumu pale kwa Attorney General kushughulikia masuala ya kimataifa tu, na wapewe kazi ya kufanya research na kuandaa points of law kutetea tz katika jambo hili.
    2. tutumie wasomi wetu vyuoni,..pale udsm kuna wanashera kama kina prof. Peter Maina etc, watumiwe vilivyo katika suala hili.
    3. kiujumla, tusijelala tena, kwasababu wamalawi hawalali hata siku moja katika jambo hili, tuwe macho kijeshi na kisheria kutetea ziwa hili. Asanteni, Mungu ibariki Tanzania. nawakilisha.
     
  2. Mwana wa Mungu

    Mwana wa Mungu JF-Expert Member

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    nawakilisha. wanasheria wa hapo AG mtujuze what's happening over there.
     
  3. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Mungu ibariki tz...ngoja niperuzi sheria kwanza kabla ya kuchangia.
     
  4. s

    silao Member

    #4
    Sep 5, 2012
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    kwani hao mawaziri wa mambo ya nje tangu tupate uhuru kazi zao ni nini? Wanakaa ofisini wakiwaza safari za ulaya tu na kusahau mambo kama hayo ambayo ni ya muhimu. Ni vilaza ka bisa hawana maana. KWELI SERIKALI NI DHAIFU.:majani7:
     
  5. Steven Robert Masatu

    Steven Robert Masatu Verified User

    #5
    Sep 5, 2012
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    muangalie AG vizuri then vuta picha tume itakayoundwa. Wamalawi hawapo kisiasa, sisi AG wetu yupo pale kisiasa. K ama alishindwa kumjibu lissu kwenye issue ya majaji unategemea ataweza kuteua watu makini.? chezea ccm wewe!!!!!!
     
  6. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    ni kweli lakini kwamba malawi wametuingiza mjini kupiga kampeni dunia nzima kutete ajambo hili kwa miaka mingi, ndo maana hata google ramani yao wamependelea malawi, hicho tu ndo wanachokijua...watz tulikaa kimyaa kabisa hatupigi kampeni kumbe wenzetu hawajalala...sasaivi tunaamka, kila mtu anatushangaa.utaona, tusipokuwa makini hili ziwa tunalikosa laivu kabisa...yangu macho.
     
  7. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    Nilisema na narudia tena. Kupeleka mgogoro huu mahakama ya kumataifa ni ishara ya kutokuamini umiliki wetu wa ziwa. Kama Malawi wakiamua kushtaki waache wao waende. Sisi tuitwe kama washtakiwa. Lakini tusiseme tunaomba kusuluhishwa. Kwani Kenya leo hii wakileta kampuni lifanye utafiti kwenye mlima Kilimanjaro tutaenda kuomba usuluhisho ICJ?

    Hakuna kitu kinaitwa justice kwenye international relations/politics, kilichopo ni interests tu. Mahakama ya kimataifa ingekuwa ina manufaa mgogoro wa Israel na Palestina ungekuwa umeshakwisha.

    Sponsors wa ICJ wakigundua kuwa ugomvi wetu na Malawi una manufaa kwao watashinikiza mahakama hiyo ifanye maamuzi yatakayoleta mgogoro mkubwa zaidi. Na wakati huo atakayepinga ataonekana mkorofi kwa kukiuka hukumu ya ICJ na wa upande wa pili atapata sababu ya kusaidiwa waziwazi.

    Hakuna mtu mwenye mamlaka ya kubadilisha mipaka ya Tanzania duniani, iwe ICJ, Rais, Chama cha Siasa au mtu yeyote. Iwapo itaonekana viongozi wanataka kugawa ziwa la Tanzania kupitia ICJ au chombo chochote, wananchi watalazimika kulinda mipaka yao wao wenyewe.
     
  8. Azipa

    Azipa JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa mtaji huu basi hatukustahili hata kuratify let alone uanachama wa hiyo mahakama na hata ada yetu tunapoteza pesa tu

    Watanzania mmezoea kupatanishwa ndo maana rushwa imekithiri.

    Unaambiwa Membe alisema "there has got to be other ways to settle this dispute without having to take it to ICJ"

    Rushwa mtupu hapo
     
  9. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    kuna sehemu nimesoma, inavyoonyesha na jamaa anavyomaanisha ni kwamba, ili ICJ ipokee kesi, ni lazima iwepo declaration kwa pande zote mbili kwamba zinaikubali jurisdiction yake, sasa cha muhimu ni kwamba, watz hatutakiwi kutoa iyo declaration..malawi hata wakitoa declaration kwamba wao wanaikubali icc itatue, kama sisi hatujakubali bado icj haina nguvu kupokea shauri...hivyo cha muhimu, tusideclare kabisa, sisi tuendelee tu kutafuta mgogoro huu kwa njia ya usuluhishi, na hapohapo tuwaambie malawi wasitie mguu kwenye eneo letu hadi solution ipatikane yaani makubaliano yetu na wao.....hapa msuluhishi lazima awepo, la sivyo, malawi na sisi tutachapana...maana yake ni kwamba, wakati tunaendelea na usuluhishi huku tukiikana icj, majeshi yetu yanatakiwa kuwa macho pale ziwani kindege chochote cha malawi kikiingia anga tunaloamini kuwa la kwetu kitunguliwe mara moja, so it to meli na boti...this is the point nafikiri.
    bofya hapa The Compulsory Jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice: How Compulsory Is It?
     
  10. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    sasa rushwa ipo wapi? naona walifanya la maana kuongea hivyo, kwasabatu tukienda tu icj basi tumepoteza ziwa amini usiamini. kama kweli membe alisema hivyo, basi abaki na msimamo huo. pia, hatuwezi kubaki na mgogoro bila kutatuliwa, na kama icj hatutaki itatue mgogoro huu, basi njia nyingine ni usuluhisi, awepo middle person asiye na maslahi ya upande wowote halafu atupatanishe ili tusiingie vitani kwasababu sote bado tuna mutual interest kama nchi. unafikiri zaidi ya usuluhisshi na icj, ni vipi mgogoro huu utatatuliwa?...tumeliweka bom hili miaka mingi tangu uhuru, ni nafasi yetu sasa jipu limewiva, tusikubali mambo yapotelee hewani bila kuwa na demarcation au suluhisho la kudumu once and for all. na tz tusikubali kabisa hata cm moa ya ziwa upande wetu kuchukuliwa. ila no icj.
     
  11. S

    Sometimes JF-Expert Member

    #11
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    Tanzania nafikiri hatuna watetezi waliobobea kuhusu masuala yenye tija kwa nchi. Nchi yetu ilishindwa kuuza pembe zake za ndovu baada ya kushindwa kujenga hoja zenye afya kule kwenye mkutano wa Cites! Mijamaa ya Kenya ilituwekea ngumu na kupiga kampeni kali sana ili TZ isiruhusiwe kuuza pembe zake na tukashindwa. Kwa misingi hiyo, sitashangaa tukishindwa kwenye masuala ya mpaka katika ziwa Nyasa kama hali yenyewe ndiyo hiyo!
     
  12. Nyamgluu

    Nyamgluu JF-Expert Member

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    Wampeleke Tundu Lissu!
     
  13. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    amini usiamini, unawezaona suala hili tayari limeshawekwa kapuni, wakati upande mwingine wa malawi wanapambana na kujiandaa kwa kutumia wanasheria mbalimbali waliobobea maprof etc...tz tunasubiri kumekucha ndo tutaamka.
     
  14. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    hahaha, acha utani bwana...Tundu lisu amesoma sheria za human rights, sio sheria za kimataifa kwenye masters yake....(however ni mtani wangu kikabila)...hata hivyo nafikiri kinachotakiwa ni jopo la wanasheria ambao sio wababaishaji wanaoongozwa na maprofessa wa sheria za kimataifa kama kina prof maina etc...pale kwa AG pia najua wapo baadhi ya wanasheria wazuri tu kwa mambo haya ya kimataifa.
     
  15. Azipa

    Azipa JF-Expert Member

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    sir, you have two accounts or it's me, i'm seeing double?
     
  16. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    wat do u mean? fafanua...
     
  17. kibol

    kibol JF-Expert Member

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    Nasikia jaji Joseph Sinde Warioba ni mtaalamu sana wa sheria zihusizo mambo ya mipaka,unadhani hawezi kutusaidia kwa hili la mgogoro wetu na Malawi?
     
  18. Azipa

    Azipa JF-Expert Member

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    ZeMarcopolo and UbungoUbongo have apparently posted same comment. Could it by any chance be that these two are siamese twins? Lol!
     
  19. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    jina la zemarcoopolo liko wapi kwenye thread hii, mbona silioni, ajabu aisee..zemacopolo amesemaje? na mimi nimesemaje?...interesting..
     
  20. Azipa

    Azipa JF-Expert Member

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    Tuendelee na mada mkuu, labda mimi ndo nimejichanganya
     
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