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TZ: Membe Azungumza Ukweli Kuhusu Zimbabwe!!!

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Mr. Zero, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. Mr. Zero

    Mr. Zero JF-Expert Member

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    Zimbabwe activists' bodies found

    Thousands of opposition supporters have been beaten or worse
    The bodies of four opposition activists have been found near the Zimbabwe capital, after being abducted, the Movement for Democratic Change says.

    An MDC spokesman accused supporters of President Robert Mugabe of being behind the deaths, ahead of next week's poll.

    The body of Harare's recently elected opposition mayor's wife has also reportedly been found, badly burnt.

    Tanzania, current chair of the African Union, says there is every sign the election will not be free and fair.

    Tanzanian Foreign Minister Bernard Membe said he and his counterparts from Angola and Swaziland would be appealing to their own presidents to take urgent action "so that they do something urgently so that we can save Zimbabwe".

    It is time to move on from calling it a campaign of violence. This is now terror, plain and simple

    Senior Western diplomat


    Diary: Militias reach town

    Mr Membe was speaking at a news conference on behalf of a peace and security troika of nations from the Southern African Development Community (SADC) which is monitoring the polls.

    SADC observers had witnessed people being shot dead and were now questioning the value of their presence in Zimbabwe, Mr Membe told the BBC.

    His comments are the latest in a growing chorus of opinion from across Africa that the elections now appear to be fatally flawed, says the BBC's Peter Greste in Johannesburg.

    A senior Western diplomat in the region has said: "The atmosphere remains violent and tense. It [the violence] is not abating and is spreading to areas to where it has not spread before, including the high density urban suburbs of Harare.

    "It is time to move on from calling it a campaign of violence. This is now terror, plain and simple."

    Ads dropped

    The MDC says at least 70 of its supporters have now been killed and 25,000 forced from their homes in a state-sponsored campaign of violence ahead of the 27 June presidential run-off.

    A growing number of international leaders have condemned the violence, but Mr Mugabe's allies have denied any responsibility.


    Mr Mugabe has been campaigning across the country
    The country's own independent electoral watchdog, the Zimbabwe Election Support Network, said it had at last been formally invited to monitor the poll, but only with 500 observers - a tiny fraction of the 12,000 it had hoped to deploy to keep track of the 9,000 polling stations.

    Earlier, Zimbabwe's public broadcaster ZBC said it would no longer carry campaign adverts from the MDC - a decision the opposition said it would challenge.

    Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa defended the move, saying international coverage favoured the MDC and never reported the ruling Zanu-PF's position.

    Correspondents say the ban on adverts will not make a great deal of difference, as news bulletins at the state-run ZBC have always favoured Mr Mugabe, only mentioning the opposition in negative terms.

    There are no privately controlled radio or TV stations in Zimbabwe and only a few weekly newspapers, which most people cannot afford.

    Leg irons

    MDC Secretary General Tendai Biti is expected in court shortly to face treason charges.

    He was arrested last week after returning from South Africa.

    FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME


    More from Today programme

    The MDC says his arrest is political and is seeking his release on bail.

    His court appearance on Wednesday, when he was wearing leg irons, was cut short because of a power cut in the magistrates' court.

    On Thursday, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is to chair an informal UN Security Council meeting on Zimbabwe, in an attempt to maintain international political pressure.

    "I think that it is time for the leaders of Africa to say to President Mugabe that the people of Zimbabwe deserve a free and fair election," Ms Rice told reporters in Washington.

    "You cannot intimidate opponents, you cannot put opponents in jail, you cannot threaten them with charges of treason, and be respected in the international community."


    UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday expressed concern over the level of violence.

    But South Africa, Zimbabwe's neighbour, has been leading diplomatic attempts to resolve the situation and is opposed to the council having too much involvement.

    South African President Thabo Mbeki met both Mr Mugabe and MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai separately on Wednesday.

    South Africa says it is not for the council to resolve disputed elections.

    Many African leaders still see Mr Mugabe as a hero of the fight against colonialism and have been reluctant to criticise him in public
     
  2. lidoda

    lidoda JF-Expert Member

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    Mungu ibariki Zimbabwe. ukiona mwenzako kanyolewa na wewe andaa maji, japo ni ngumu kuifikiria hiyo
     
  3. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Huu ni usanii na colloquism ya hali ya juu!

    Yaani Membe anautangazia umma kuwa anachukua side katika jambo la foreign policy bila ya kuongea na rais wake kwanza? Kwamba anatangazia kadamnasi ya jumuiya ya kimataifa kuwa anafikiri uchaguzi hautakuwa wa haki halafu anataka kwenda kumshawishi rais wake kuchukua hatua? Vipi kama rais akiwa na msimamo tofauti?

    Hivi hawa watu hawajui diplomasia/ uongozi/ public relations au wanajifanya hamnazo tu?

    Ongea na rais, pata msimamo ulio na consensus, halafu ndiyo useme na waandishi wa habari.Yaani hapo inakuwa kama Foreign Affairs Minister anafanya maamuzi kwa niaba ya rais, anayatangaza katika vyombo vya habari, halafu anaenda kumpelekea rais lame duck kuya endorse tu.

    Rais akiulizwa kabla ya wewe hujaongea naye akasema tofauti?

    Akikutana na rais anayejua kazi yake hii ni sababu tosha ya kumuondoa!
     
  4. M

    MgonjwaUkimwi JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Pundit,
    Naona umejibu hii post kwa jazba badala ya kuelewa kwanza kilichoandikwa.

    Kuna nchi tatu hapo zimetajwa, na uamuzi wa pamoja wa marais wa nchi zote tatu unahitajika kabala ya kuchukuliwa kwa hatua. Sasa assume kwamba Membe anaufahamu uamuzi wa bosi wake JK, ila ule wa nchi nyingine mbili haufahamu ungetemea aseme kwamba Tz tayari imeamua? Kama ndivyo hivyo, umuhimu wa maamuzi ya nchi nyingine una nafasi gani?
     
  5. M

    Masatu JF-Expert Member

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    Too late too little.....
     
  6. M

    Mwikimbi JF-Expert Member

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    hakuna kiongozi wa kiiafrika mwenye uwezo wa kumsema mugabe, gadafi na museveni wao wanafikiri kutawala milele kwa kuwa wao ni wana mapinduzi, na mwanamapinduizi eti ni lazima atawale mpaka hamu iishe(gadafi, uganda, 2002).huko rwanda na burundi ni ukabila mtupu na kuwa ukabila ndo cheti cha kuwa rais. hapo kenya kibaki anatawala baada ya kuiba kura za odinga huku akiacha watu zaidi ya 1000 wamekufa kwa wizi wake huo. hapa tz tunaambiwa ccm itatawala miak 1000, akina mouldine caustikoaliwahi kusema kule zanzibar kuwa zanzibar ilipatikana kwa mapinduzi matukufu na kuwa haiwezi kuondololewa kwa karatasi(kura)

    kilichobaki ni kuona b52 na manowari za kimarekani zikichanja mbuga kuingia zimbabwe kumwondoa huyu dikteta
     
  7. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Mgonjwa,

    Sijakurupuka,

    Mimi siridhiki na huu usanii wa Membe kusema

    Katika diplomasia huwezi kutangaza kitu kikubwa kwa waandishi wa habari bila ya kuongea na rais. Membe hakutakiwa kutuambia nini yeye au wenzake wataenda kumshawishi rais, Membe alitakiwa kusema kitu ambacho kimeshakubalika au kusema kuwa hatuwezi kuongelea swala hili mpaka tuongee na marais kwanza.

    Usanii sanii huu na colloquism ndiyo ninayoikataa kwa sababu it is a fundamental violation of such ideas cental to government as chain of command, collective responsibility, loyalty na answerability.

    Inaonekana Membe anaujua msimamo wa Kikwete (ambaye amekuwa akimpigia simu mara kibao Mugabe kumpaka lakini Mugabe hataki hata kupokea simu za Kikwete), lakini Membe anajifanya kuwa Kikwete anahitaji "kushawishiwa" ili kusudi hata Kikwete akitoa tamko la kumlaani Mugabe ionekane kuwa Kikwete alibanwa na Membe kufanya hivyo, na kwamba katika macho ya Mugabe na cronies wake Kikwete aonekane kuwa hakuwa na jinsi.

    Kama anajua kuwa Kikwete hapendi anachofanya Mugabe si achukue statement tu na kusema rais wangu anasema hivi, au asubiri mpaka mawaziri wote wawa consult marais wao? Hii papara ya kukurupuka na kutuambia mambo ambayo hata hamjakubaliana inatoka wapi? Je Kikwete akisema Mugabe ni war veteran na hatumkaki Morgan? Membe atajiuzulu?
     
  8. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

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    Sio inaonekana. Membe ataachaje kujua msimamo wa Kikwete?

    Wanaweza kudanganya baadhi ya watu wakati fulani. Sio watu wote wakati wote!
     
  9. Nemesis

    Nemesis JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Pundit, Mh. Membe ameongea kwa niaba ya SADCC siyo Tanzania, nimefuatilia bbc/swahili wameongelea suala hilo kwa kirefu kiasi fulani. Mhe. Membe amesema wanakwenda kuwaambia viongozi (Mrais) wa Jumuia ukweli halisi wa mambo yanayotokea. Ikunbukwe kwamba katika suala hili Mhe. Membe ndiyo bossi wa jumuiya na ndiye anayewapanga na kuwasimamia waangalizi wa SADCC. Ndiyo maana amesema wametoa majukumu kwa Serikali ya Zimbabwe kuhakikisha inawalinda waangalizi wa Kimataifa.

    But it too late now, Mugabe kishaua 70 na wangine amewakata viungo mbalimbali, kuchoma moto nyumba nk. Aibu kwa Afrika, Mugabe aondoke tu.
     
  10. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Jamii forum tumekuwa tunapiga hizi kelele kwa muda mrefu lakini wakulu wameziba masikio. JF tupo tunafuatilia hili kwa karibu kabisa.
     
  11. Richard

    Richard JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu,

    Nakusifu umeliona hili.

    Mimi pia nimeona hapa Membe amechemsha kwani kila asemacho kuhusu foreign policy, ni kwa niaba ya mheshimiwa raisi, sasa sijui anachekecha mbawa kwa nani.

    Nchi za Afrika bado hazijawa imara kusimamia mambo yake yenyewe, tuna AU, ECOMOG, SADC bado kweli tunashindwa kumshawishi Mugabe aache kufanya anayofanya ya kutesa raia wake?

    Huu ndio uungwana kweli wa waafrika?

    Inasikitisha sana!
     
  12. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    watoe geresha na kusema wanataka kufanya nini sasa, maana inakuwa kama mchezo wa kutupiana mpira, na kama wote wanamuogopa Mugabe.Mawaziri wanasema washaona mauaji huko.Kama wana uwezo wa kutoa matamko damning kiasi hicho basi wana uwezo wa kulaani moja kwa moja na hata kutoa action plan.Ama sivyo wasitoe msimamo wowote mpaka waongee na wakubwa zao na kukubaliana.

    Hii inakuwa break katika chain of command. Msemaji wa mwisho katika Foreign Affairs ni rais, si Membe.Tuambie mlichokubaliana, si kitu gani unaenda ku appeal to his majesty's taste of the day.

    This was bungled, especially because the multinational facet of it is surely going to produce a mixed reaction.
     
  13. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

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    Sio kweli.

    Membe ametoa position ya Foreign Minister wa Tanzania na kitu ambacho anataka Tanzania ikifanye. Wote tunaelewa foreign affairs hapa.

    Ukishasema ""so that they do something urgently so that we can save Zimbabwe," hapo ameshatoa msimamo wake yeye Membe, kwamba Rais wake, Kikwete, inabidi afanye kitu.

    Katika diplomasia, huu ni usanii au mchemsha mbaya mno, au ni kilaza wa ajabu.

    Foreign minister anachotakiwa kusema ni msimamo wa nchi, sio mtazamo wake. Au kama unataka kuonyesha flezibility, hutoi msimamo wa nchi yako, bali unasema "nitapeleka ujumbe kwa Rais, lakini mtazamo wa Tanzania ni blah blah blah..."

    Ukishasema nitamsihi Rais afanye X, Y, Z "ili kuiokoa Zimbabwe" yani hapo unatoa opinion unayotaka bosi wake atekeleze.

    Huu ni usanii au ameonyesha hajui kazi yake hata kidogo.

    Unless ni mchoro wao, Kikwete fire his a$$!
     
  14. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania, current chair of the African Union,........
     
  15. Richard

    Richard JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kweli, lakini saa hii ilitakiwa mheshimiwa mwenyekiti awe ameitisha kikao cha dharura cha kujadili hali ya Zimbambwe.
     
  16. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa sisi Tanzania angekwenda JK wakati Angola and Swaziland wamewapeleka Foreign ministers, guys angalieni kwa upana wake swala hili.
     
  17. Nemesis

    Nemesis JF-Expert Member

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    Kuhani nimesikiliza bbc/swahili kwa umakini, pia soma aya hizi kutoka http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7463687.stm

    "Tanzanian Foreign Minister Bernard Membe addressed a news conference on behalf of the three nations - Tanzania, Angola and Swaziland - from the Southern African Development Community (SADC) monitoring the polls.

    As the observers were being deployed to those various stations, two people

    "The first impression we have is that if the elections were to take place today, these elections would never be free and fair... because... the report we received still indicates that violence is escalating throughout Zimbabwe," he told the BBC.

    "We have received a report that says on the 16th of June this year, as the observers were being deployed to those various stations, two people were shot dead."
     
  18. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu,

    Tunaongelea alichokisema kuhusiana na uhusiano wake yeye na Rais wake. Unapoongea kwa niaba ya SADC haivunji itifaki iliyopo kati yake na Rais wake.

    Alipofungua kinywa chache akaanza kuongea vitu ambavyo anataka Rais wake atekeleze aliharibu. Ilibidi aseme tutapeleka ujumbe kwa Marais wetu. Period. Asianze kusema "Zimbabwe inaangamia." Hiyo inakuwa position ya Utawala. Sasa haijulikani kama ni utawala wa foreign ministries za SADC au member states za SADC.

    Katika first principles za diplomacy, hakutakiwa kutabiri au kusihi Rais wake achukue actions fulani. Hiyo ni diplomatic gaffe!

    Ni kwa sababu tunaishi katika dunia isiyopevuka ki-diplomasia. Vinginevyo Kikwete angem sack!
     
  19. Richard

    Richard JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu mimi nakuelewa ila nina yangu ninayodhani yanatendeka kwa sasa.

    Hii yote ni watu kujifanya wako busy saaana na wakiuambia ulimwengu mambo ambayo ni yaleyale ya kuyeyushana.

    "Behind the scenes" ni kwamba Mugabe anazungumza na haohao wakoloni wa zamani kuona kwamba yeye atakuwa raisi wa Zimbabwe kwa kutangazwa mshindi katika huo uchaguzi hewa ujao.

    Lengo hapa ni kuunda serikali ya mpito mithili ya Kenya na baadae mzee huyo aende zake akapumzike na kumwachia mtu yeyote yule wa ZANU-PF.

    Vyanzo mbalimbali vya habari vinasema kwamba raisi Mbeki na Koffi Annan ndio wanapika makubaliano ya kwamba Mugabe atatangazwa raisi wa Zimbabwe.

    Akiishatangazwa ataapishwa na baadae ataachia madaraka na mtu wa ZANU-PF atapewa madaraka ya uraisi kwa kuunda serikali ya mseto na MDC.

    Hivi sasa Afrika Kusini imepeleka tani 300,000 za mahindi kule mashambani na vijijini ambako kuna wale wananchi wajinga wasiojua kitu na ndio wataompa kura Mugabe.

    Tsvangirai amejitahidi sana kumlaumu Mbeki juu ya tabia yake ya ukimya juu ya anayofanya Mugabe lakini ameshindwa.

    Lakini all in all mkoloni wa zamani na washirika hawako tayari kumuona Mugabe anasimama tena akiwa raisi, wanapenda wasione hali hiyo.

    Sasa sijui hawa mawaziri wa mambo ya nje wamefanya nini mpaka sasa ili niwape credibility, otherwise sisi waafrika tutaendelea kuwa ndivyo tulivyo.
     
  20. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

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    Hawa ndiyo watu wa JK bwana .Na huyu eti anautaka Urais wa Tanzania .Lakini pia Membe ni mnafiki kama Boss wake inawezekana anasema maneno ambayo ni lead kwamba wamesha teta .Hawa jamaa hawatabiriki bwana .
     
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