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Tundu Lissu ametega kitendawili cha bunge na katiba ya Jamhuri

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Candid Scope, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Bunge la Tanzania linahusisha wabunge wa bara na wa visiwani wakati zaidi ya theluthi mbili ya yanayojadiliwa ni ya wabara. Hali kadhalika wa visiwani wanapotunga au kubadilisha vifungu vya katiba wabara hatuhusishwi kwa maana kwamba ni ya kwao lakini wao wanahusishwa yote yahusuyo muungano na yale yahusuyo wabara tu. Hapo haki haitendeki, kwani idadi ya wavisiwani inawezi ikaathiri maamuzi yanayowahusu wabara tu.Kwa nini wabunge wa visiwani wanapojadili bajeti wanashiriki hata iwahusuyo wabara.

    Na kwa nini visiwani wawe na haki sana na wabara katika kupitisha katiba yenye mambo mengi yanayowahusu wabara na kuwepo machache tu ya Muungano? Alichosema Lisu kwamba wa visiwani ingefaa wahusishwe tu katika vipengele vya muungano ni uchochezi au ni kutufungua akili wengi ambao tumedanganywa miaka yote na wanasiasa viongozi wenye kujali maslahi binafsi kama viongozi badala ya maslahi ya wananchi wote wa pande zote mbili?
     
  2. z

    zamlock JF-Expert Member

    #2
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    lisu mjanja sana huyu mwanasheria
     
  3. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Unaweza kuona wabunge wa kutoka Tanzania visiwani wameanza kujengo hoja ya kumshutumu Lizu kama mchochezi kumbe wamegundua hoja hiyo ikipata nguvu kwenye katiba mpya ulaji wao utapungua, maana watatakiwa wahudhurie majadiliano yanayohusu Muungano na siyo yanayohusu wabara. Hali kadhalika kuna maslahi mengi ambayo wavisiwani wanafaidi kutokana na muungano wakati wabari hakuna mhudhuriaji katika vikao vya visiwani labda viongozi wa ngazi za juu kama Rais na Makamu wake.
     
  4. mwaJ

    mwaJ Tanzanite Member

    #4
    Aug 26, 2011
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    Hakuna uchochezi wowote hapo bali ni ukweli mtupu! Kwanza wao hawautaki muungano sasa mambo ya bara wanang'ang'ania kushiriki kuyajadili yanawahusu nini?
     
  5. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #5
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    Nakubaliana na hoja yako, ila naongezea hili la wao kushiriki uamuzi wa Katiba 50/50 wakati sehemu kubwa ya katiba inawahusu wabara, na wakti katiba yao huwa hawatushirikishi licha ya kuwemo mambo ya Muungano. Hii imekaaje?
     
  6. m

    mbaba Member

    #6
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    ishu inakuja kwamba znz haieleweki colon la tanganyika au nch huru,coz katiba inasema znz cio nchi,ikiwa wanautawala na jeshi lao(kmkm)so,km ni nchi wanayo haki yakutowashirikisha
     
  7. z

    zamlock JF-Expert Member

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    lisu mjanja sana huyu mwanasheria
     
  8. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #8
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    Kitambulisho cha taifa ni bendera, wimbo wa taifa na katiba yao. Najua bendera wanayo, katiba wanayo na sina hakika kama wimbo wao wa taifa bado unapeta. Cha msingi Wazanzibar licha ya kulalamikia Muungano lakini hawako tayari kuongelea ulaji wa huku bara kwa maana kwamba wanatupunja haki nyingi za msingi ambazo wabara tumewagawia kama hisani ya kudumisha muungano.
     
  9. A

    Albimany JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo lenu wabara nikua hamuelewi,na kwa bahati mbaya hata wasomi wenu hawana uelewa.

    Hivyo hamujui kua serekali ya Zanzibar sio ya muungano? sasa kwasababu zipi tuwashirikishe kwenye maamuzi yetu?

    Wazanzibari wanayo serekali ya muungano Inaitwa (serekali ya muungano wa Tanzania) hapa hamutakua na haki ya kutuzuia tusishiriki serekali ambayo tulioiunda wenyewe.Ama mukifufua serekali ya Tanganyika hapo hamutamuona mzanzibari hata katibu kata hataingia licha ya mbumge.

    Hivyo hamujajua tu kosa lenu kua ni kukosekana serekali yenu ya Tanganyika?

    Serekali ya Tanzania iliundwa baada ya kuungana na Zanzibar na Tanganyika =(TANZANIA) na kamwe haikuungana Zanzibar na Tanzania,

    Undeni serekali yenu kwanza ndio muipongeze kauli ya Tundu Lisu.Vyenginevyo ikosoeni kauli yake.
     
  10. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

    #10
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    hizi wewe ndio umeona sababu za msingi za kutaka kulalama embu jifunze na miungano mingine duniani ikoje kwanza utaona huo wetu una afadhali huko Scotland wana bunge, na kujiwakilisha kimataifa na mambo mengi tuu. Na bado wana wabunge wa kwao kwa scotland tu licha ya wanaokwenda westminister.


    Embu leteni sababu za maana na si huu upupu.
     
  11. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #11
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    Mchelea mwana mwisho hulia. Kuna idara na wizara zinazowahusu wabara tu, kwa nini hizo zijadiliwe na Wazanzibar ambao haziwahusu? Hapa kuna jambo linaloonyesha kuzunguka mbungu, kwa nini hatutaki kuongea uwazi kwa masuala ya maslahi ya kweli kwa pande zote. Wazanzibar wakiguswa kuhusu haki za wabara ambazo wanafaidi matunda yake wakali lakini mambo madogo madogo tu yanayowahusu wanalalamika utadhani wabara tunainyonya Zenj.
     
  12. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna cha upupu, ila utanda wazi, maana sasa ni nafasi ya kurekebisha kasoro, na katu hatutarudi nyuma kwa hoja dhaifu za utetezi kwamba Lisu ni mchochezi.
     
  13. A

    Albimany JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Nimeona niwafafanulie tena,

    Katiba iliopo ni ya Jamuhuri ya muungano sasa vipi mzanzibari asishiriki mambo yote wakati yuko katika muungano?

    Kama itakua iko katiba ya Tanganyika Hapo haitakua haki wazanzibari kushiriki.Hii nikama ilivyo kwa zanzibar Wabara Hawawezi kushiriki kutokana na kua serekali na katiba ya zanzibar haviwahusu wabara.

    Sasa chakufanya nyinyi undeni katiba inayohusu Tanganyika muone kama hata nnzi kutoka zanzibar atatua hapo.

    alioyasema Lisu yengekua sawa kama wakati anasema hivyo iko serekali inayohusu Tanganyika tu.au katika katiba hii hii ya sasa yako mambo yalioainishwa na katiba kua haya sio ya muungano.

    Kwamfano katiba ya Zanzibar inatamka wazi kua ulinzi yani jeshi na polisi ni wamuungano.lakini niatamka pia mambo yasio ya muungano mfano Magereza sio wa muungano.

    au vyeti vyakuzaliwa vya zanzibar haviandikwi kua neno muungano lakini vyeti vya Tanzania vyote vinaandikwa ni vya jamuhuri ya muungano wa Tanzania.

    suali linakuja ni jambo lipi kwenu sio la muungano? Maana document za serekali zote zimeandikwa za jamuhuri ya muungano,hebu niambieni hapo utaweza vipi kumtenga mbunge kutoka zanzibar wakati nyinyi wenyewe hamuko tayari kutenganisha mambo ya muungano na yasio ya muungano?
     
  14. A

    Albimany JF-Expert Member

    #14
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    Ndugu yangu kama una weza nitajie hizo idara zisizo wahusu wazenji? sio kua sijui kua ziko ila katiba yenu haikutenganisha yapi mulioungana na yepi hamukuungana na ndio maana ukichukua karatasi yoyote leo inayotoka wilaya au mkoa au ofisi ya serekali kutoka bara imeandikwa ni yajamuhuri ya muungano,hali hiyo ni tofauti na zanzibar ni baadhi ya idara tu ndio karatasi huandikwa za jamuhuri ya muungano mfano karatasi za polisi.
     
  15. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

    #15
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    Mimi binafsi siwezi kuja hapa na kutetea hawa baadhi ya wazenj wapuuzi, hila najua kuna ambao na wao wanautaka muungano. Ina maana kuwe na sababu za maana za kuzungumzia haya mambo lakini si jinsi zanziba wanavyo jadili mambo yao kwa sababu ingawa katiba sijaisoma hila common sense inaniambia ya kuwa kuna vitu bunge lao aliwezi jadili lakini kuna lazima wawe na hiyo haki ya kujadili local issues.

    znz was a independent state kabla ya muungano kwa maana hiyo wana haki ya kubakiza some autonomy as a state hule si mkoa kama wengi mnavyotaka kupotosha sioni haya malalamiko yana msingi gani na kutowekwa wabunge wa zenj katika bunge la TZ maana ya huo muungano itakua I make sense kabisa. Kuna mambo mengi ya msingi ya kuzingatia lakini si ubunge na jinsi wanavyochangia thats just low with the issue at hand.
     
  16. Nduka

    Nduka JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    Labda TFF LOL, hivi unadhani hawaelewi? wanachojaribu kufanya ni kutafuta jinsi ya kuuficha ujinga wa Lissu ila kila kitu wanakijua vizuri tu.
     
  17. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    Hayo ndiyo tunayoongelea, maana hata kuna mengi ambayo wazanzibari wanalalamikia wabara, kwa vyo vyote Tundu Lisu katutega hapa, mjadala huu na wabara tunatakiwa tutambue haki zetu za msingi badala ya kumezwa ndani ya Muungano na kushtukia hazi zetu zinapokwa na wazenj.
     
  18. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Hili la visiwa vya Unguja na Pemba kwamba ni independent state halipingiki lakini not free state kwa vile wanafungwa na katiba ya Muungano katika masuala ya kimataifa. Tunachojadili hapa ni mambo yaliyomo ndani ya Muungano huu ambayo hayatendewe kwa haki, na hili la Wabunge wa visiwani kupigia kura mambo ambayo yanawahusu wabara tu ni kasoro ambayo inatakiwa kufanyiwa kazi katika katiba mpya ijayo.
     
  19. k

    kindafu JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Lissu katufungua macho,na mwenye macho haambiwi tazama!Tuchukulie mfano mdogo-kikao cha BAJETI kinajadili bajeti ya wizara isiyohusika na muungano-wanashiriki wabunge toka bara na visiwani.Kushiriki kwao kunawahalalishia kulipwa posho za ushiriki ambazo zinatokana na kodi yangu mimi na wewe mbara mwenzangu! tujiulize ushiriki wa huyu mwakilishi toka Znz una tija gani mpaka ahalalishiwe kukamua kodi yangu mie ninayeendelea kunyauka kwa ugumu wa maisha? yaani yeye akamue vikao vya bunge bara na vya uwakilishi znz kwa kodi zetu? Kuna haja ya wanajamii forum mlio na upembuzi mpana zaidi wa maswala haya mtupembulie ili wabara wengi tuone umuhimu wa kudai haki sawa ktk katiba ijayo.Kwa katiba ya sasa wabara ndo wanakamuliwa zaidi ili wa visiwani ndo mabingwa wa kulalamika kuonewa na kupunjwa! wana jf tafadhali fanyeni kazi ya ziada ya kupembua mambo bila ushabiki wa kivyama!
     
  20. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    Kikwete anaviogopa sana vifungu vya Muungano katika katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano, ndio maana katika mswada wa utungaji sheria ya Kuandaa katiba mpya awali aliweka kifungu knachotishia kifungo kwa ye yote anayehoji mambo ya Muungano na mamlaka ya Rais.
     
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