September 1, 1993. The growing popularity of the Chairman of the Democratic Party, has been giving cause for concern to people within and outside Tanzania. German TV jounalist Iris Karlovits interviewed him recently for the Dar es salaam 'Express'. The following are extracts from the interview: ON RELIGION AND SECULAR STATE: I believe that those in power try to separate politics from religion because they want to be free to do evil against mankind; as apastor and evangelist, politics has never been separated from my ministry especially when it deals with people's rights and with resources which keep them happy. Politics and religion are one and the same because they both deal wit people's rights. ON TANZANIA'S GREATEST PROBLEMS: The moral decay of our society Mental anesthesia( Julius Nyerere deliberately administered some political anesthesia into the brains of the people of this country in order to subdue them; we were reduced to the level of livestock who just lived for the wishes of the master) Total decay of health services The economic ruin ON EDUCATION: We need intensive education for democracy. The subject should be called 'civics' as in the colonial days. It was so nice. It taught us all to be proud of our country. We were to try and do our best. We strived to lead, to be the best in our studies, in our work. But all this spirit is dead. Most of the education used to be provided by missionaries. The missionaries taught good discipline and patriotism. Now these guys deliberately nationalised those schools and crushed them down. We need to restore those schools to the missionaries because by taking them away we have ruined our education system. ON HOW TO RAISE MORE MONEY TO PAY FOR BETTER EDUCATION: Cut the intelligence service which spends billions of shillings. Its major work was to prevent the emergence of opposition and to supress democracy. But now the opposition is legal. Stop the extravagance on creating new ministries. There are too many tax exemption for influencial persons. Huge amounts of money are being taken out of the country. ON THE 'MAFIA SYNDICATE': Our party has a list of 160 people who are responsible for all this. They are bussinesman, top men in the CCM, high ranking officials, some foreigners and diplomats. There are 'the *********s' who are of Asian origins. They are importing containera full of drugs and re-exporting to Zambia, Zimbabwe and South Africa. Those people who say that we are going to fail in bussines if we chase away 'the *********s' are only insulting the Tanganyika people. They think that God put beans in the heads of Tanganyikans and brains in the heads of thieves from other countries who come to loot our country. ON INDIGENISATION: Indiginisation is education and change of the regulations for commerce. Our bussines people have beene denied opportunities. Foreigners have their own motherlands. They've come here to get rich. A Tanganyikan is a person of Tanganyikan origin not only born here. Being born anywhere is meaningless. If I were staying in Switzerland and my wife delivered a baby there, this does not change her Tanganykan origin. We do not have to go into archeology to dig up bones to see who was here before whom. ON THE SELLING OF THE COUNTRY: The country is on sale! They are selling the land. What about Loliondo, the game parks, everything? So they say Iam an instigator and what have you?? They are sick. All the diamond are going. We had 300000 elephants at independence. No one should point a finger to the British, because they left us with everything intact. Now we have got about 8,000 left. If the German are compasenting the Jews for having killed them and if the Americans are to pay the west Africans for the slaves they took, we have got to start discussing compention from the Arabs. ON ZANZIBARIS: They have a different identity (from Tanganyikans). They are Zanzibaris. SOURCE: Tanzanians Affairs, Archieve for September, 1993. MY TAKE. Huyu jamaa alikuwa na point kiasi ila ni mdini na mbaguzi sana na pia ana colonial anaesthesia. Sijui kama mtazamo wake bado ni huo huo on issues alizojadili hapo au la!! Ila nimependa namna anavotukuza u-Tanganyika na comment yake on Zanzibaris, na katika mali asili za nchi bila kusahau ushauri wa kupunguza fedha za TISS basing on the role they play!! Vinginevyo mawazo yake kwa upande wa pili ni ya 'ki-*********'