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The Two-State Solution Doesn't Solve Anything

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mwiba, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Everyone can say yes because saying yes no longer says much, and saying no has become too costly. Acceptance of the two-state solution signals continuation of the Tanzania-Zanzibarians struggle by other means.

    Tunahitaji serikali tatu .Tanganyika ,Zanzibar na Tanzania kwa maana hiyo serikali ya CCM chawachikeni kulia ili iundwe serikali ya Tanganyika mambo ya kutuburuzia mpaka Bunge na Mkuu wa bunge yaishe.Kwa ilivyo mnaona Bunge ni lenu mahakama ni zenu vyombo vya dola ni vyenu mbali ya kuhodhi mali zilizokuwepo wakati wa utawala wa chama kimoja,vyombo vyote hivyo vitakabidhiwa serikali ya Muungano na kuendeshea mambo yake,sasa hayo yawe yamefikia mwisho na wanaJF pelekeni ujumbe huu kwa viongozi wa vyama vya upinzani ili waanze harakati za kuitafuta serikali ya Tanganyika vinginevyo tutakuwa tunajidanganya na kupigwa mabuti kila uchaguzi,umuhimu wa kuwepo kwa serikali ya Tanganyika upo hapa ,kuivua madaraka ya kibeberu CCM. Njia ni hiyo tu ya kuisaka serikali ya Tanganyika.Mambo ya kusema mnaelekea serikali moja sasa tumeshayashitukia na ndio mlipofikia kumuweka kiti moto Spika na wabunge wengine,mnawatisha mnawadhalilisha mnawaundia kamati za kuwashughulikia ,hii peke yake ni jambo la aibu ,mnaposema mtawashughulia je inamaana mtawaua,ndio maana yake.

    Na faida itakayopatikana hapa ni kuiondoa serikali ya CCM na vyombo vyake ,ili tupate vyombo huru vitakavyosimamiwa kwa mgawanyo na serikali kuu ya Muungano ,kwa makubaliano ambayo kila Mtanzania atayaona na kuyatolea maoni.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  2. Teamo

    Teamo JF-Expert Member

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    yah!you have a point,you know!!
     
  3. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Serikali ya Tanganyika sio suluhisho la kuondoa umaskini Tanzania, wala sio mwisho wa migawanyiko ambayo imeanza kujitokeza! Wagawa nchi wakimaliza na kuleta Tanganyika watakuja na ajenda nyingine ya kuwagawa wananchi! Watakuja na shetani OIC na takataka nyinginezo. Chama ambacho ni kinara wa kuitaka Serikali ya Tanganyika ni CUF ambacho ni cha Wapemba. Tayari kuna move ya kutaka Jamhuri ya Pemba mpaka sasa! Ukiifikiria sana CUF utaumiza kichwa chako bure maana hawaeleweki! Waendelee tu kutangaza dini maana ni chama cha kidini!
     
  4. Nyikanavome

    Nyikanavome JF-Expert Member

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    I am also for three state solution: one state solution is complicated for you can not change the union treat while one founder of the union (Tanganyika) is dead. We need Tanganyika and Zanzibar as partners in the union to be there for any meaningful change to occur in our beloved country

    Nawakilisha
     
  5. K

    Kamundu JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania inahitaji serikali moja!. Serikali tatu za nini kwenye nchi masikini na inasaidia nini kuwa na serekali tatu. Zanzibar itagawanyika tena mara mbili kama wakiachwa wenyewe. Maendeleo ya zanzibar yatatokana na kuachia uhuru wa watu kufanya biashara na uwekezaji bila kujali huyu ni mbara au huyu ni muhunguja inabidi ubaguzi uishe na ibakie huyu ni Mtanzania. EA Community wanataka kufungua masoko na Zanzibar wanataka kufunga!. Zanzibar inatakiwa kutoa sheria za uzawa kwa wabara kama kuna mtu anataka kuwekeza serikali inatakiwa ifanye iwe rahisi na si vinginevyo.
     
  6. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Mwiba,
    Mkuu ni muhimu sana tutambue matumizi ya hili neno SERIKALI tatu maanake inaweza kutuponza sote kama ilivyomponza Pinda hali binafsi nilimwelewa vizuri aliposema SERIKALI MOJA ndio solution..
    Unaposema tuwe na serikali tatu ina maana mbaya kikatiba. Nikiwa kuwa nchi zote za Muungano zina serikali MOja inayotambulika nayo ni Federal.. zile ndigo zimo ndani ya serikali kuu na nchi inatambulika kwa jina la serikali kuu. Ukitazama US, ni vigumu kusikia wakisema nchi yao ina serikali 50, ila kuna muungano wa states 50.
    South Afrika, Canada na nchi zote duniani zimejengwa kwa misingi ya kuunganisha states kuunda nchi Moja na hata siku moja huwezi kusikia swala la nchi likijenga hoja ya utengano kuonyesha tofauti baina ya moja na nyingine. Na ndivyo Pinda alichokuwa akisema...kuwa angependa sana kuona siku nchi yetu ikiwa MOJA kama tunavyosikia UK, US, South Afrika, Nigeria, Canada badala ya kila siku nchi yetu kujitambulisha kwa states au majimbo yake.

    Tatizo kubwa la Tanzania sio kuwa na nchi tatu ni sisi wananchi kuelewa na kukubali kilichopo na tunaweza vipi kuitendea haki nchi hii. Hapa ndipo maneno ya Kennedy yanapoingia kuwa - Think not what a Country can do for You, think what you can do for Your Country..
    Kwa mtazamo wa Kidanganyika tunafikiria kuwepo kwa nchi tatu tutaweza kupata mafanikio fulani tofauti na nchi moja au mbili, hali hizi serikali ni sawa na address ya nyumba moja ktk kijiji kizima.

    Zanzibar ni nchi tayari ndani ya NCHI, ambayo ina rais wake, baraza lake la mawaziri, bunge lake na kadhalika.. Uhuru wote wa kuonyesha Zanzibar ni independent as a state lakini ipo chini ya serikali kuu. Huku Bara ndiko ujinga umefanyika lakini kwa sababu maaum tukizingatia umaskini wa NCHI nzima. Hivi fikiria Bara nao wawe na rais wizara na bunge lake kisha kuwepo na Bunge la Taifa hiyo serikali itakuwa na ukubwa gani?.

    Ikiwa leo tunalalamika na ukubwa wa serikali tuliyokuwa nayo iweje kuwepo kwa serikali tatu kutapunguza matatizo yetu?.. au tunacholilia ni jina na Tittle ya kuitwa nchi..Na inashangaza sana kuona malalamishi mengi yanatoka Zanzibar hali wao tayari ni nchi kama Scotland, Ontario au Michigan na wanafahamika kuwa na madaraka sawa na states kama hizo iwe kuna madai ya ziada yanatohitaji nguvu zaidi kwa visiwa hivyo ktk uwakilishi wake.

    Mimi nadhani solution sio serikali tatu isipokuwa ni serikali kuu kutambua Uhuru wa visiwani na haki zao kama nchi ndani ya Muungano..Swala la OIC ndio chimbuko la yote haya na binafsi nakubaliana na hoja za visiwani kwani wao as distinct society wana kila haki ya kujiunga na vyombo vinavyoijenga jamii yao. Quebec ni mwanachama wa jumuiya ya Kifaransa, Ukienda Uswiss utakuta Swiss Italia, Swiss French na Swiss Germany..Na as a fact mimi sioni sababu kabisa ya Tanzania kuwa ktk Jumuiya ya nchi za Kiingereza (Commonwealth) kwa maana pana ya Uhuru wa nchi yangu.

    Sasa kama mimi Mkandara ambaye sipendi kabisa Tanzania iwe ktk jumuiya hiyo ya Kikoloni siwezi kuwalazimisha Watanzania wote kukubali nachoamini mimi.
    Hivyo tuwe wataratibu, tupange hoja zetu kwa manufaa ya nchi yetu na sii kuvamia hoja za viongozi wetu ambao kwa namna fulani wanatafuta maslahi zaidi au kuuvunja Muungano wetu..Tatizo la Seif Sharrif Hamad anataka watu waamini kabisa kwamba Zanzibar as a Country can do a lot kwao..
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  7. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    This is the deal. Tanzania inawatu zaidi ya milioni 36. Nafikiri serikali tatu kama anavyopendekeza MWIBA hazitoshi. Ningependelea serikali 20 hivi. Unguja waunde majimbo mawili na kuwe na serikali mbili. Pemba wapewe jimbo na serikali moja. Tanganyika watoe majimbo kama 17 hivi. Na baadaye iwepo nchi inayojukana kama Muungano wa jamhuri za Tanzania. Kwa sababu kila jimbo litakuwa ni republike.
     
  8. Cynic

    Cynic JF-Expert Member

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    Ka RHODE ISLAND lazima kaburuzwe CALIFORNIA
     
  9. S

    Shamu JF-Expert Member

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    Zanzibar inatakiwa ijitoe kwenye Muungano. Huu Muungano hauna faida yoyote kwa Zanzibar. Kwa mfano, Nchi za Soviet zilipoona Muungano wao hauna faida, wakaamua kuvunja. Sasa hivi hizo former Soviet, zipo kwenye transitional economy, ambapo washaanza kuona matunda yake baada ya kuvunja muungano. ZNZ itaendelea zaidi kimaendeleo kama ikiamua kujitenga. Kazi kwenu WZNZ kudai independence yenu, muda ndiyo huu, msisubiri sana.
     
  10. Junius

    Junius JF-Expert Member

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    Ndo maana yake.
     
  11. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Shamu,
    Ni nchi gani iliyokuwa ktk Soviet Union imeendelea maanake nijuavyo mimi maendeleo madogo ya nchi hizo yametokana na kifo cha Ukomunist. Sasa hivi means zote wanazozitumia ni zile zile zilizokuwepo toka enzi ya Soviet kama Tanzania yetu, isipokuwa wao wametumia elimu zao kuingiza madeal na macontract ktk kukuza uchumi wao..Nambie hadi leo hii umeona kitu gani cha maana sana toka nchi hizo hata iwe baiskeli tu.

    Mkuu nchi za Soviet zote uchumi wao ulikuwa kama TZ wakati wa Ujamaa yaani hakuna record nzima za mapato yao chini ya serikali kuu..Hakuna serikali ndogo yaani hizo Georgia zilikuwa kama mikoa tu tofauti na Zanzibar.. kila kitu zilikuwa centralised hivyo wakati wa Ukomunist walikuwa minus 20 wamefikia minus 17 wanaita maendeleo, wakati nchi nyingine zinazungmzia plus juu ya bar..Kwa hiyo huu sii mfano hata kidogo.
    What they can do for their Country ndio issue muhimu ya Wazanzibar, ikiwa ni pamoja na kumchagua rais wamtakao..
    Kuna mshikaji wangu mmoja Mmarekani kwa utani simuwezi, alinirushia dongo la Kennedy kuwa ktk hotuba yake ya - Think not you a Country can do for you, think what you can do for your Country, Mjomba Oswad aliona hakuna njia bora ya kulitendea taifa lake ila kumuua Kennedy mwenyewe..
     
  12. S

    Shamu JF-Expert Member

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    Hizo former Soviet countries siyo kama zimeendelea, zipo kwenye transitional economy, politics nk.
    In addition,sasa hivi Serikali ya ZNZ haina mamlaka yoyote nje ya nchi au hata ndani ya nchi. Ktk international law, ZNZ bado inahesabika kama Mkoa tu. WZNZ hawana haki ya kumchagua Rais wao, hawa marais wote wanawekwa na Serikali ya muungano. Muhimu kwa WZNZ, ni kudai independence yao kama nchi zengine duniani. Huu muungano hauwezi kuisadia ZNZ kimaendeleo.
     
  13. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Maana ya kuwepo serikali tatu ni kuuwa ukiritimba wa CCM ndani ya Tanzania nzima na hata nje huko ambako viongozi wake huwaga wanatia saini kuuza mapande ya Tanzania.

    Hapa kuna kutokuelewa kwa baadhi ya watu na hawaioni tabu ya kuishi kwenye serikali zinazoongozwa na CCM ,inaonekana kuna taabu ya kumfahamisha kipofu rangi nyeupe.
     
  14. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Shamu,
    Mkuu wangu hata New York unahesabika kama mkoa na huwezi kunambia hawana maendeleo kwa sababu wako chini ya serikali ya USA. tatizo sio mipaka ya ramani na jina la kuitwa nchi isipokuwa Wazanzibar wanajiwezesha vipi kuiendeleza nchi yao.. Hii habari ya kufikiria kwamba Zanzibar ikiwa nchi wataendelea ni vituko vitupu. Ndia kama unakumbuka walipata Uhuru wakiwa pamoja na Pakistan na Bangladesh!.. wammejitenga kweli lakini nambie kuna maendeleo yoyote tofauti na kama wangekuwa pamoja. Kwanza wamezidisha Uadui na pili wakishindana kutengeneza mabomu ya Nuklia badala ya kutengeneza nguvu za umeme..Kila siku mauaji hayaishi yaani hakuna historia yoyote nzuri ktk nchi zilizotengana bali maendeleo makubwa yameoinekana ktk nchi zinazoungana.
    Dunia nzima inaelekea ktk kuungana nahata nchi za Asia sasa hivi zina mfuko wao wa maendeleo badala ya kutegemea IMF..

    Mwiba asikudanganye mtu, Marekani kuna states 50 na kila uchaguzi chama kimoja hushinda kitaifa na states hizi huathirika au hufanikiwa kutokana zaidi na Utawala wa nchi zaidi ya Utawala wa states hata kama unatoka chama pinzani. CUF wakiongoza Zanzibar na CCM wakachukua serikali ya bara, kisha kitaifa wakachukua CCM, matatizo ya Zanzibar au Bara bado yatakuwa sawa na ya leo hii.. haibadilishi kitu isipokuwa kumwondoa CCM kitaifa.
     
  15. S

    Shamu JF-Expert Member

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    New York haipo kama Mkoa. State zote ndani ya US zinasheria zao zinazowalinda from Central Government. Hizi US state zinajipangia bajeti zao, zinajitegemea, na zina uwezo wa kufanya biashara na nchi yoyote duniani bila ya Federal Gov. kuingilia. Hili tatizo la state right lilikuwepo kabla ya US constituion kuanzishwa; ndiyo maana kuna state ambazo zilikuwa zinapinga kusiwepo na Federal Gov. Kitu kikubwa kilichosababisha Union, ni Security. Hizi state ziliungana baada ya kuhofia British kuzivamia kijeshi. New York kama US state ina right zaidi kuliko Serikali ya ZNZ ndani ya Muungano. Serikali ya ZNZ haina mamlaka kama NY state ndani ya Fed. Gov.

    Kulikuwa na umuhimu mkubwa wa kuuvunja muungano baina ya Pakistan na India. Hawa jamaa walishindwa kuelewana kwa sababu ya dini. Pakistani ni Waislamu na India ni Hindu. Muungano wao haukuwa na maana kwa sababu walikuwa wana tofauti za kidini, uchumi mbovu; vitu ambavyo vilisababisha vita vya kidini. Haya ndiyo tunayoona sasa hivi kati ya ZNZ na Tanganyika. Sasa kama huu muungano kati ya ZNZ na Tang. unaleta chuki ya maendeleo au dini una maana gani huu muungano? Muungano una faida pale kila nchi au state inaridhia yale iliyoyatarajia kuyapata ndani ya muungano.
    Kupata maendeleo si lazima uwe ndani ya muungano. For example,Taiwan imeendelea zaidi bila ya kuwa na muungano na China.
     
  16. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    In his book on ‘Our Leadership and the Destiny of Tanzania', Nyerere affirms that we could have adopted a merger with one government or a federation with three governments. "But", he insists, "we felt unable to do so because of the small size of Zanzibar relative to that of Tanganyika." The latter setup, he asserts, "would have been too costly for Tanganyika" But why? Because it "would contribute the vast bulk of the costs for running" it on top of its own. Nyerere, however, supported the idea of having a federal government with more than two countries e.g. an East African Federal Government with Tanganyika, Zanzibar, Kenya and Uganda.
     
  17. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    The founders of union are no longer there and circumstances have changed. In order for us to strengthen our union, we either have to do away with the government of Zanzibar just like we did with that of Tanganyika. Or there has to be two government from the islands one from Unguja and other from Pemba.
    Wanaozungumzia serikali na wanaoleta chokochoko ni wenye uchu wa madaraka, hata wakipewa madaraka lengo lao kuu ni kuiba tu hakuna wanachofanya wala hawawaendelezi wanaowachagua au "nchi" zao.
     
  18. H

    Haki JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa nini Bara wanaung'aninia Muungano? Kwa nini hawataki ZNZ ijitenge?
     
  19. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Bara wanaung'ang'ania kwa sababu ndio unaowaweka madarakani ,kumbuka leo hii ikdaiwa serikali ya Tanganyika ,viongozi wa serikali ya Muungano iliyokuwepo watapoteza vyeo vyao na hapo ndipo wanapopaogopa sana ,wanajua fika kuwa utakuwa mwisho wao.
     
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